RE: Fwd: The Genius of Capitalism
Brad, -Original Message- Not being schooled in Economics, I have come to see capitalism as just one form of human sociability: That is 1 way to look at it. However, I don't choose to socialize that way and those who do try to destroy those who choose other ways to socialize. That certainly isn't very sociable. All the capitalists socialize together, and the medium of their sociality is running what I consider to be the second, but more real government of the lands they live in. Insightful, but isn't there a need for consent of the governed?
Re: Fwd: The Genius of Capitalism
My cafe time, too! Bruce L: Brad, -Original Message- Not being schooled in "Economics", I have come to see "capitalism" as just one form of human sociability: That is 1 way to look at it. However, I don't choose to socialize that way and those who do try to destroy those who choose other ways to socialize. That certainly isn't very sociable. All the "capitalists" "socialize" together, and the "medium" of their sociality is running what I consider to be the second, but more real government of the lands they live in. Insightful, but isn't there a need for consent of the governed?SK:This is both a values and scale question. What constitutes a need? Needed by the system? Needed for ethical values? The ought is different from the is. Massive system redesign would be required for the consent of the governed to be effectivly possible. And power doesn't give itself up willingly.Besides W. Eur N. Amer, Russia, India, even China, most of Central S.Am er., Au., NZ... indeed most of humanity is now following a capitalist model. Perhaps the SCALE is different in many areas, where TNCs don't run the show; but then small scale capitalism (incl farming, artisans, barters/traders,...)is the rule. Representative democracies are/have been run by $ since govts succumbed to borrowing from the future. They are like drug addicts except it is power and revenue that is the habit. Before this there were monarchies, warlords, dictators/czars...In representative democracies with fixed #s of reps, population growth has diluted individual voices to a tiny fraction since constitutional formation. Women and non-white voting rights diluted as well.(NOT JUDGING THESE RIGHTS except as to dilution) Strength in numbers is double edged! Besides voice dilution, oversupply of labor reduces bargaining power re wages and benefits ceteris paribus.System failure/breakdown yields the greatest fastest change potential. Each day one's voice is diluted further, internet notwithstanding.end of cafe time.Steve -- http://magma.ca/~gpco/ http://www.scientists4pr.org/ Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist.Kenneth Boulding
RE: Fwd: The Genius of Capitalism
Bruce, To me Capitalism is a mixed economic system, not a lot different from the mixed system of the socialists. On one side of them are the communists, on the other the free market. Harry __ Bruce wrote: Brad, -Original Message- Not being schooled in Economics, I have come to see capitalism as just one form of human sociability: That is 1 way to look at it. However, I don't choose to socialize that way and those who do try to destroy those who choose other ways to socialize. That certainly isn't very sociable. All the capitalists socialize together, and the medium of their sociality is running what I consider to be the second, but more real government of the lands they live in. Insightful, but isn't there a need for consent of the governed? ** Harry Pollard Henry George School of LA Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 Tel: (818) 352-4141 Fax: (818) 353-2242 ***
Re: Fwd: The Genius of Capitalism
It occurs to me that having you define your terms often eliminates disagreements. So Harry, in today's world with the type of Information and instant electronic exchanges how would you define a "free market?" How, also would the complicated machinery of modern industry be used and still protect the average citizen who must plan their lives and be responsible with their families? I agree with many of the things said about bureaucrats however I also believe that they are often forced to choose between responsibility to their lives and families and being creative or as Steve says, "getting the benefit to the cause/need." It seems to me that the bigger their machine the more important the redundant systems are in order to protect the "little guy" from becoming "cannon fodder" for the "Generals" of the world. I don't mean to put downGenerals or Captains of Industry for public or private concerns or whatever. To me they are just all parts in systems that are grounded in history and culture and have a certain logicality to them. It seems to me that the younger the system is, the more arrogant, and often causes the greater harm while the older it is the more mediocre and slow but does the least harm. I admit that this is a truth inthe Art of Singing! But I see through my glasses just as you do yours. The problem is when there is a need for quick action on things like theOzone hole or the high level of asthma amongst our young in the city due to Air Pollution. Too often you have a President who grew up next door to a refinery, can't form a clear thought in his mind (due to the pollution) but is clever and who believes that he survived so there must be something wrong with those people who have the asthma. One might say that it has to do with whether you meditate on a single supreme Hero or whether you meditate on the structures of life with their many areas of consciousness. Their connection to the underlying structures and evolution of systems and the confession of the truth that all reality ultimately begins in one's mind. Evenknowing that, the Aztecs made a terrible mistake and begin human sacrifice on the truth of the shape of their sense of Time. They also believed that the shape of time that flows through all life was what the Christians meant when they carried the Aztec symbol for that reality with a man hanging from it. I believe it was Bertrand Russell who made the point that truths as well as symbols, rarely travel well from one system to another. So Harry, what do you mean by a "Free Market" in your system of thought and how does it work? Ray - Original Message - From: Harry Pollard To: Bruce Leier ; Brad McCormick, Ed.D. ; Brian McAndrews Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 5:55 PM Subject: RE: Fwd: The Genius of Capitalism Bruce,To me Capitalism is a mixed economic system, not a lot different from the mixed system of the socialists. On one side of them are the communists, on the other the free market.Harry__Bruce wrote: Brad,-Original Message-Not being schooled in "Economics", I havecome to see "capitalism" as just one formof human sociability:That is 1 way to look at it. However, I don't choose to socialize that wayand those who do try to destroy those who choose other ways to socialize.That certainly isn't very sociable.All the "capitalists""socialize" together, and the "medium"of their sociality is running what Iconsider to be the second, but more real governmentof the lands they live in.Insightful, but isn't there a need for consent of the governed? ** Harry Pollard Henry George School of LA Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 Tel: (818) 352-4141 Fax: (818) 353-2242 ***
