Re: LTO, LLVM, etc.

2005-12-06 Thread Mark Mitchell
Mathieu Lacage wrote: A path where different solutions for different problems are evolved independently and then merged where it makes sense seems better to me than a path where a single solution to two different problems is attempted from the start. Which is thus why I think that there

Re: LTO, LLVM, etc.

2005-12-05 Thread Ian Lance Taylor
Mark Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is one advantage I see in the LTO design over LLVM's design. In particular, the LTO proposal envisions a file format that is roughly at the level of GIMPLE. Such a file format could easily be extended to be at the source-level version of Tree

Re: LTO, LLVM, etc.

2005-12-05 Thread Steven Bosscher
On Saturday 03 December 2005 20:43, Mark Mitchell wrote: There is one advantage I see in the LTO design over LLVM's design. In particular, the LTO proposal envisions a file format that is roughly at the level of GIMPLE. Such a file format could easily be extended to be at the source-level

Re: LTO, LLVM, etc.

2005-12-05 Thread Gabriel Dos Reis
Steven Bosscher [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | On Saturday 03 December 2005 20:43, Mark Mitchell wrote: | There is one advantage I see in the LTO design over LLVM's design. In | particular, the LTO proposal envisions a file format that is roughly at | the level of GIMPLE. Such a file format

Re: LTO, LLVM, etc.

2005-12-05 Thread Chris Lattner
On Dec 5, 2005, at 11:48 AM, Steven Bosscher wrote: On Saturday 03 December 2005 20:43, Mark Mitchell wrote: There is one advantage I see in the LTO design over LLVM's design. In particular, the LTO proposal envisions a file format that is roughly at the level of GIMPLE. Such a file format

Re: LTO, LLVM, etc.

2005-12-05 Thread Jim Blandy
On 12/5/05, Chris Lattner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That said, having a good representation for source-level exporting is clearly useful. To be perfectly clear, I am not against a source- level form, I am just saying that it should be *different* than the one used for optimization. Debug

Re: LTO, LLVM, etc.

2005-12-05 Thread Mark Mitchell
Steven Bosscher wrote: On Saturday 03 December 2005 20:43, Mark Mitchell wrote: There is one advantage I see in the LTO design over LLVM's design. In particular, the LTO proposal envisions a file format that is roughly at the level of GIMPLE. Such a file format could easily be extended to be

Re: LTO, LLVM, etc.

2005-12-05 Thread Mark Mitchell
Chris Lattner wrote: I totally agree with Steven on this one. It is *good* for the representation hosting optimization to be different from the representation you use to represent a program at source level. The two have very different goals and uses, and trying to merge them into one

Re: LTO, LLVM, etc.

2005-12-05 Thread Chris Lattner
On Dec 5, 2005, at 5:27 PM, Mark Mitchell wrote: Steven Bosscher wrote: IMVHO dumping for export and front-end tools and for the optimizers should not be coupled like this. Iff we decide to dump trees, then I would hope the dumper would dump GIMPLE only, not the full front end and middle-end

Re: LTO, LLVM, etc.

2005-12-05 Thread Chris Lattner
On Dec 5, 2005, at 5:43 PM, Mark Mitchell wrote: Chris Lattner wrote: I totally agree with Steven on this one. It is *good* for the representation hosting optimization to be different from the representation you use to represent a program at source level. The two have very different goals

Re: LTO, LLVM, etc.

2005-12-05 Thread Mark Mitchell
Chris Lattner wrote: [Up-front apology: If this thread continues, I may not be able to reply for several days, as I'll be travelling. I know it's not good form to start a discussion and then skip out just when it gets interesting, and I apologize in advance. If I'd been thinking better, I would

Re: LTO, LLVM, etc.

2005-12-05 Thread Mark Mitchell
Steven Bosscher wrote: What makes EDG so great is that it represents C++ far closer to the actual source code than G++ does. I know the EDG front-end very well; I first worked with it in 1994, and I have great respect for both the EDG code and the EDG people. I disagree with your use of far

Re: LTO, LLVM, etc.

2005-12-05 Thread Mathieu Lacage
hi mark, On Mon, 2005-12-05 at 21:33 -0800, Mark Mitchell wrote: I'm not saying that having two different formats is necessarily a bad thing (we've already got Tree and RTL, so we're really talking about two levels or three), or that switching to LLVM is a bad idea, but I don't think there's

LTO, LLVM, etc.

2005-12-03 Thread Mark Mitchell
I've been watching the LLVM/LTO discussion with interest. I'm learning that I need to express myself carefully, because people read a lot into what I say, so I've been watching, and talking with lots of people, but not commenting. But, I've gotten a couple of emails asking me what my thoughts