From: Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sou you end up with something like following in torque
MyData (The Biz Object)
MyDataVO (The Value Object)
MyDataPeer (The Peer)
AbstractMyData (the abstract biz object)
AbstractMyDataPeer (The abstract Peer)
And the only one decoupled from the
Can anyone compare/contrast features between this and Torque?
That animated diagram! Torque has nothing like this.
The price.
Torque is Open Source, and can therefore be successfully adapted to suit the
bizzare pecadilos of any organisation.
From the site I can't see very much difference
on 4/26/02 2:30 PM, Steve A. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Regarding Generators ... not really O/R ... but we've had success with
SQLTags (www.sqltags.org) that uses a generator to produce a java class and
JSP tag for each table defined by the JDBC metadata. Each tag knows how to
compose
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
[snip]
Bah. Throws the entire concept of MVC out the window.
Which is a bad thing?
--
Andy Armstrong, http://www.tagish.co.uk/
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From an outsider's perspective, you probably need a new proposal.
Un saludo,
Alex.
-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: jueves 25 de abril de 2002 3:06
Para: Jakarta General List
Asunto: RE: RE: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
So, I'm
So, I'm kind of curious what the general consensus is regarding this. Seems to be
in various directions.
I think JDBC should be a lot better; it should incorporate all the
features of CrossDB (though maybe a little different), and some more.
Then there should be higher-level tools like
Exactly. I haven't seen a decent one so far (except for NeXT/Apple
WebObjects). So if you want to compare O/R with text editors (like it
was done before in this thread), imagine a world with vi and notepad
as the only 2 choices. Emacs and MS Word 6.0 are yet to be invented.
Wow...
Message
From: Jeff Schnitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 2002-04-24
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
on 4/22/02 12:19 AM, Leo Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
While these may
Hi,
As a side note. I have heard good things about
http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/ which is yet another persistence layer.
Unlike all the other ones this does not force you to work within a particular
model of development. ie It does not force you to regenerate sources (ie
Torque),
on 4/25/02 3:37 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
As a side note. I have heard good things about
http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/ which is yet another persistence layer.
Unlike all the other ones this does not force you to work within a particular
model of development. ie It
On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:20, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
on 4/25/02 3:37 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
As a side note. I have heard good things about
http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/ which is yet another persistence layer.
Unlike all the other ones this does not force you
PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:20, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
on 4/25/02 3:37 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
As a side note. I have heard good things
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Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If anything, crossdb is something that is a few generations behind Torque in
terms of functionality and design.
http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque/
Yeah... I was going to point this out.
Hi Kevin,
Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If anything, crossdb is something that is a few generations
behind Torque in
terms of functionality and design.
http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque/
Yeah... I was going to point this out.
Funny how all the rage
Hi Amarendran,
If you analyse the database, then you have to define it first using an SQL
script, or something. We felt the need for a tool that, taking a set of
classes, created the tables for us and filled them with the objects.
For example, if we have
public class Nested
{
private
Check out jdocentral.org, vendors implementing the
Java Data Object (JSR-12 jcp.org) specification do
that stuff. I personally like Zodo JDO
(http://www.solarmetric.com/). It is pretty slick, it
does exactly what you want to do. Given a class that
you build in Java it can generate tables and
Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro wrote:
I can imagine why people do their OR tool: because existing ones do not
fulfill their necessities. In fact, that's what happened to me recently.
Exactly. I haven't seen a decent one so far (except for NeXT/Apple
WebObjects). So if you want to compare
Now I wonder if using crossdb for Torque would be a good idea. Reason being is that
you wouldn't have to rebuild all your classes and scripts like you would using Torque
now if you wanted to use a different database. Or even modifying the database, you
wouldn't have to rebuild everything,
on 4/24/02 8:13 AM, Bala Kamallakharan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I personally like Zodo JDO
(http://www.solarmetric.com/). It is pretty slick, it
does exactly what you want to do. Given a class that
you build in Java it can generate tables and make the
classes Persistence Capable.
Thanks,
General List
Asunto: RE: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
Check out jdocentral.org, vendors implementing the
Java Data Object (JSR-12 jcp.org) specification do
that stuff. I personally like Zodo JDO
(http://www.solarmetric.com/). It is pretty slick, it
does exactly what you want to do. Given
At 9:30 AM -0600 4/24/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Now I wonder if using crossdb for Torque would be a good idea.
Reason being is that you wouldn't have to rebuild all your classes
and scripts like you would using Torque now if you wanted to use a
different database. Or even modifying the
Joe Germuska [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
At 9:30 AM -0600 4/24/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Now I wonder if using crossdb for Torque would be a good
idea. Reason being is that you wouldn't have to rebuild all your
classes and scripts like you would using Torque now if you wanted to
use a
From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
on 4/22/02 12:19 AM, Leo Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
While these may not be accurate summaries, I hope you now do see
that
CrossDB and Torque are not, in the majority of use cases,
alternatives
to one another.
I'm sorry. I
http://www.solarmetric.com/Software/Kodo_JDO/pricing.php
Only $3000 to deploy it!
Bah. This stuff should be free.
Maybe this is a project for Jakarta :-) I am
interested in an Open Source Alternative, I am sure a
lot of folks are JDO spec came out a couple of months
back...I am sure we
So, I'm kind of curious what the general consensus is regarding this. Seems to be in
various directions.
Travis
Original Message
From: Jeff Schnitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 2002-04-24
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
From
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 22/04/2002 03:59:43 PM:
Actually Jon,
Torque and crossdb are quite a bit different. Torque is pre
generated and requires some preliminary setup and doesn't deal with
SQL statements directly. Whereas crossdb is on the fly and is an
object oriented way of
on 4/21/02 11:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
iq.addAutoIncrementColumn(emp_id);
And for databases without an auto-increment feature??
FYI, Torque looks at what database driver you are using an will generate the
right SQL/process to emulate auto-increment (assuming your
I never said they were the same. I said that crossdb is a few generations
behind Torque in design and thinking.
In the sense that Torque is an object-relational tool and crossdb is not,
Torque has a newer design. That does not mean relational tools do not have
a place in Java anymore.
You
For dbs without an auto_inc feature, that db implementation would ignore this or
handle it accordingly. Up to that implementation.
Travis
Original Message
From: Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 2002-04-22
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Subproject
Thanks Leo, I couldn't have answered this better myself. ;-)
Travis
Original Message
From: Leo Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 2002-04-22
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
I never said they were the same. I said that crossdb
From: Leo Simons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Torque is a persistence layer that uses O/R mapping to use a database
to provide persistence. A persistence layer is a handy tool in many
server applications.
CrossDB is a database abstraction layer that uses the Factory and the
Builder pattern
on 4/22/02 12:19 AM, Leo Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I never said they were the same. I said that crossdb is a few generations
behind Torque in design and thinking.
In the sense that Torque is an object-relational tool and crossdb is not,
Torque has a newer design. That does not mean
Right...like using JSP over Velocity is a choice. That said, JSP still
sucks. :-)
-1 - you're wrong. JSP doesn't suck.. .
IT SUCKS REALLY MAJORLY BAD! ;-)
I'm sorry. I don't see that. Torque can do everything crossdb can do and
more.
Yeah, I'm not seeing a compelling need served here
You do not have to use an O/R layer that abstracts you away from the
database you are using so much that it limits your ability to use the
DB's functionality in something resembling a db-natural way.
That is like trying to argue that using ECS is the way to write HTML.
Sometimes it is.
Torque doesn't have a 'newer design'. It has a more mature design. Torque
has been around for about 3-4 years now.
SQL's been around for 20. APIs to create SQL statements have been
around for about as long.
Which has advantages over O/R, which is the reason not everyone uses O/R
for
on 4/22/02 10:00 AM, James Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You do not have to use an O/R layer that abstracts you away from the
database you are using so much that it limits your ability to use the
DB's functionality in something resembling a db-natural way.
That is like trying to argue
on 4/22/02 10:40 AM, Leo Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Torque doesn't have a 'newer design'. It has a more mature design. Torque
has been around for about 3-4 years now.
SQL's been around for 20. APIs to create SQL statements have been
around for about as long.
Java hasn't been around
on 4/22/02 11:15 AM, Michael A. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Speaking of which, why isn't torgue a top-level Jakarta subproject? Last
I looked, it appeared to be completely independent of Turbine. Plus, as
you say here, it also has a large developer and user base. Does the
Torque
Torque has been separated for about a year now.
We haven't found a reason to make it a top level project yet.
I really don't understand why the location of a set of code matters.
The one reason I can think of is exposure.
Which could be seen as a good one.
- Leo
--
To unsubscribe,
We haven't found a reason to make it a top level project yet.
I really don't understand why the location of a set of code matters.
Get over the mental blocks and just use the code because it is good code,
good design, not because of what CVS repo it lives in.
The exposure and not the
On Mon, 22 Apr 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
on 4/22/02 11:15 AM, Michael A. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Speaking of which, why isn't torgue a top-level Jakarta subproject? Last
I looked, it appeared to be completely independent of Turbine. Plus, as
you say here, it also has a large
people using C when there
are nice languages like Java? ;-)
Travis
Original Message
From: Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 2002-04-22
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
As far as I'm concerned, you guys are arguing to use
: 2002-04-22
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
on 4/22/02 11:15 AM, Michael A. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Speaking of which, why isn't torgue a top-level Jakarta subproject? Last
I looked, it appeared to be completely independent
on 4/22/02 1:47 PM, Michael McCallum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
jon, are you a bitter man? ;-)
I think the point he (Jon) is trying to make is why write another tool when
there are entirely suitable ones out there already.
You would be far better off adding you insights to an existing
on 4/22/02 1:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about here, but the fact of the matter is
that if you were to do a survey of developers using databases (SQL), my guess
is that you would find that the majority probably still use hard sql
on 4/22/02 2:27 PM, Ellis Teer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I had considered using Torque before I was ready to give Turbine a try.
Because it's subproject I had the impression that it was dependent on
Turbine. This delayed me using it by a number of months. It's
placement as a subproject in
Well it's beyond a starting project and it works and people use it. For what it's
for, it works good.
Travis
Original Message
From: Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 2002-04-22
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
on 4/22/02 1
Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
on 4/22/02 12:19 AM, Leo Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You also left out all the code related to getting the 'conn'
object. Torque
abstracts all that away so it isn't necessary at all.
Which is not valid in every use case. CrossDB uses a
On Mon, 22 Apr 2002, Daniel Rall wrote:
CrossDB and Torque are entirely different layers. There's no reason
for someone to use CrossDB instead of Torque unless they're either a)
trying to avoid or circumvent O/R entirely, or b) trying to build an
O/R framework.
I think (a) is a reasonably
Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 23/04/2002 07:35:40 AM:
on 4/22/02 2:27 PM, Ellis Teer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I had considered using Torque before I was ready to give Turbine a
try.
Because it's subproject I had the impression that it was dependent on
Turbine. This
Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 23/04/2002 09:05:56 AM:
on 4/22/02 4:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On a serious note, being a top level project means that more people
will
find the project.
However, it seems that the problem isn't finding the project.
on 4/22/02 4:27 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'll buy that. I know that when I first saw the *URL*, I tnhought it was
tied to Turbine.
http://jakarta.apache.org/torque/
Feel better now?
-jon
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Leo Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Torque has been separated for about a year now.
We haven't found a reason to make it a top level project yet.
I really don't understand why the location of a set of code matters.
The one reason I can think of is exposure.
Which could be seen as a
lol. nice.
Travis
Original Message
From: Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 2002-04-22
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
on 4/22/02 4:27 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'll buy that. I know that when I first
...and it would be foolish to argue with the 'right' angles of
orthogonality. ;)
-Ellis
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
You do have to admit it does seem a bit of a violation of orthogonality.
Then again, I never really cared for helicopters anyhow ;-)
-Andy
On Mon, 2002-04-22 at 17:35,
a more direct lower level API. Both having the
important similarility of being database independent.
Travis
Original Message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 2002-04-22
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
On Mon, 22 Apr 2002, Daniel Rall
Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Village abstracts JDBC, not databases. Torque uses Village in some
places in order to make the code cleaner and simpler.
After using them both for a couple years now, I've come to the
conclusion that the database abstraction layer which Torque
Leo Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Which has advantages over O/R, which is the reason not everyone
uses O/R for everything. I'd say it is a choice instead of a
problem.
Right...like using JSP over Velocity is a choice. That said, JSP still
sucks. :-)
A strange comparison. JSP and
Michael McCallum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
jon, are you a bitter man? ;-)
I think the point he (Jon) is trying to make is why write another
tool when there are entirely suitable ones out there already. You
would be far better off adding you insights to an existing project
than starting a
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2002, Daniel Rall wrote:
CrossDB and Torque are entirely different layers. There's no reason
for someone to use CrossDB instead of Torque unless they're either a)
trying to avoid or circumvent O/R entirely, or b) trying to build an
O/R framework.
Out of morbid curiosity... I couldn't find this answered on the
website... How is this different then hsql (hsqldb.sourceforge.net) and
why would I want to use it as opposed to hsql?
On Sun, 2002-04-21 at 21:10, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
I would like to propose a new subproject for
From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Sun, 2002-04-21 at 21:10, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The project is called crossdb and can be found at www.crossdb.com.
What is it?
crossdb is a Java API that is used to create SQL statements
that are database independent. So you
If anything, crossdb is something that is a few generations behind Torque in
terms of functionality and design.
http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque/
Funny how all the rage recently seems to be creating these OR tools.
-jon
on 4/21/02 7:29 PM, Tim Vernum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
the more important points. Is there a
formal way of doing these proposals?
Travis
Original Message
From: Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 2002-04-21
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
If anything, crossdb is something that is a few
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