[gentoo-user] Re: The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On 17/03/12 06:11, Bruce Hill, Jr. wrote: This item just appeared after eix-sync: HTPC ~ # eselect news read 2012-03-16-udev-181-unmasking Title udev-181 unmasking AuthorWilliam Hubbswilli...@gentoo.org Posted2012-03-16 Revision 1 udev-181 is being unmasked on 2012-03-19. This news item is to inform you that once you upgrade to a version of udev=181, if you have /usr on a separate partition, you must boot your system with an initramfs which pre-mounts /usr. An initramfs which does this is created by =sys-kernel/genkernel-3.4.25.1 or =sys-kernel/dracut-017-r1. If you do not want to use these tools, be sure any initramfs you create pre-mounts /usr. Also, if you are using OpenRC, you must upgrade to= openrc-0.9.9. For more information on why this has been done, see the following URL: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. Houston, we have a problem! No, we don't. I hope systemd arrives soon. It's the best init system I ever saw.
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
This news item is to inform you that once you upgrade to a version of udev =181, if you have /usr on a separate partition, you must boot your system with an initramfs which pre-mounts /usr. [...] Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. The problem, if you really want to call this a problem, is with udev, not OpenRC. Switching to systemd is not going to solve it. Personally I stopped bothering with a separate /usr ages ago, so I don't really care. andrea
[gentoo-user] KDE and permissions problems
Howdy, This is sort of weird. I upgraded my kernel to gentoo's 3.2.9. When I rebooted, I noticed some odd issues with permissions. When I try to log into Konsole or some other root access program, I get something like this: The program 'su' could not be found. Ensure your PATH is set correctly. or Permission denied. Possibly incorrect password, please try again. On some systems, you need to be in a special group (often: wheel) to use this program. This is also really odd permissions: -rws--x--x 1 root root 36680 Mar 16 23:36 su -rws--x--x 1 root root 52416 Mar 16 23:19 umount -rws--x--x 1 root root 42592 Mar 16 23:36 passwd There are a few others but you get the idea of my problem here. Somehow, the permissions seem to be off a bit. I have re-emerged the packages that own these files, no change. I have googled but only found old issues with this. I have not changed or even touched fstab in a good long while. I have not added or changed permissions regarding my user either. It seems some update has caused this but if re-emerging the package doesn't fix it, then what? I am in the wheel group. I'm also in the tty group. I rebooted to my previous kernel, thought maybe it was a config issue or something, no change. This was working a few days ago. Also, when I am in a console, I can log in as a user but can't su - to root. I can log in as root directly tho tho. So switching from user to root using su is out even in console. I have a new unbooted install on a separate drive, it has the same odd permissions on it. Anyone else seeing this? Any ideas on how to fix it? Thanks. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words! Miss the compile output? Hint: EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--quiet-build=n
Re: [gentoo-user] systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
Hello, Nikos. On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. No, we don't. I hope systemd arrives soon. It's the best init system I ever saw. What's so good about it? What will it do for me? I have this horrible sneaking suspicion that it will be more complicated than /sbin/init + OpenRC, just like udev + initramfs is more complicated than udev, and CUPS is more complicated than classical lpr. Why do you find it so good? -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
Hello Bruce, Thanks for the heads up. On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 12:11:23AM -0400, Bruce Hill, Jr. wrote: This item just appeared after eix-sync: udev-181 is being unmasked on 2012-03-19. Why is he in such a hurry? For more information on why this has been done, see the following URL: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken Yuck! -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On March 17, 2012 at 4:00 AM Andrea Conti a...@alyf.net wrote: This news item is to inform you that once you upgrade to a version of udev =181, if you have /usr on a separate partition, you must boot your system with an initramfs which pre-mounts /usr. [...] Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. The problem, if you really want to call this a problem, is with udev, not OpenRC. Switching to systemd is not going to solve it. Personally I stopped bothering with a separate /usr ages ago, so I don't really care. andrea Bravo! It's (systemd) the same mentality as those who started Ubuntu to attract Windoze Weenies because Gentoo, or even Slackware, was too hard for them to install. -- Happy Penguin Computers`) 126 Fenco Drive( \ Tupelo, MS 38801^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On March 17, 2012 at 7:59 AM Alan Mackenzie a...@muc.de wrote: Hello Bruce, Thanks for the heads up. On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 12:11:23AM -0400, Bruce Hill, Jr. wrote: This item just appeared after eix-sync: udev-181 is being unmasked on 2012-03-19. Why is he in such a hurry? For more information on why this has been done, see the following URL: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken Yuck! -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). This time, it truly is upstream. They're rushing headlong to get all of us to use POS systems like Fedora and Ubuntu. -- Happy Penguin Computers`) 126 Fenco Drive( \ Tupelo, MS 38801^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On 2012-03-17 12:11 AM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: An initramfs which does this is created by =sys-kernel/genkernel-3.4.25.1 or =sys-kernel/dracut-017-r1. If you do not want to use these tools, be sure any initramfs you create pre-mounts /usr. Ok, I have never used genkernel, and have no desire to... I have no idea what dracut is or how to use it... I have a remote system that has /usr on a separate partition. So... How do I find out if I am actually *using* an initramfs right now (I know it is built into the kernel), and If I am not, how do I do this without using genkernel? Is dracut t he only other option? Is it easy/trivial to set one up manually? I cannot imagine that gentoo is just going to throw me to the wolves like this without providing *in-depth* instructions on how to make sure my system will boot after this update, like they did with the baselayout-2 update...
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On 17/03/2012 14:50, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2012-03-17 12:11 AM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: An initramfs which does this is created by =sys-kernel/genkernel-3.4.25.1 or =sys-kernel/dracut-017-r1. If you do not want to use these tools, be sure any initramfs you create pre-mounts /usr. Ok, I have never used genkernel, and have no desire to... I have no idea what dracut is or how to use it... I have a remote system that has /usr on a separate partition. So... How do I find out if I am actually *using* an initramfs right now (I know it is built into the kernel), and If I am not, how do I do this without using genkernel? Is dracut t he only other option? Is it easy/trivial to set one up manually? I cannot imagine that gentoo is just going to throw me to the wolves like this without providing *in-depth* instructions on how to make sure my system will boot after this update, like they did with the baselayout-2 update... genkernel is pretty simple to use if you ask me. just emerege genkernel and then use genkerenl --menuconfig all it will do everything for you the same as in a regular kernel compiling. you have instructions on how to use genkernel on the handbook. Regards, Eliezer
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and permissions problems
On 2012-03-17 11:19, Dale wrote:
The program 'su' could not be found.
Ensure your PATH is set correctly.
What does 'echo $PATH' give you? /bin should be in your path (that's
where 'su' is located, or should be)... My $PATH looks like this:
/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.5.3:/usr/games/bin
I don't know if this is the case but maybe, you're using some of the
new-fangled screw up'ed tools like, dracut, systemd etc. that wants to
move everything into /usr (on the same partition as /) and as such
changes your $PATH accordingly (without checking perhaps - which would
be consistent with the arrogance of the coders).
-rws--x--x 1 root root 36680 Mar 16 23:36 su
-rws--x--x 1 root root 52416 Mar 16 23:19 umount
-rws--x--x 1 root root 42592 Mar 16 23:36 passwd
The 's' part is for the SetUID bit which gives the root-owned command in
question root privileges, in order to switch user... See:
http://blog.superuser.com/2011/04/22/linux-permissions-demystified/
(esp. the Getting sticky! chapter).
That's not all though...:
it, then what? I am in the wheel group. I'm also in the tty group.
Check your /etc/pam.d/su file... it should contain (at least) this line:
auth required pam_wheel.so use_uid
That's what gives you permission to use 'su' as a member of the 'wheel'
group ('su' is controlled by 'pam').
Best regards
Peter K
RE: [gentoo-user] mdev for udev substitution instructions web page is up
Walter Dnes wrote: The instructions for replacing udev with mdev are now up at http://www.waltdnes.org/mdev/ validator.w3.org complains about a couple of extensions I used, but it appears to work OK in both Firefox and Midori. Any comments from users of other browsers? The page will be Looks fine in IE/Firefox/Chromium; you shouldn't have any problems with any browsers since the validation errors are on deprecated attributes that are still in wide use. If you really want to fix them so it validates, change: a name=foo -- a id=foo ol type=a -- ol style=list-style-type: lower-alpha
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk writes: Ok, so my system has 2 network cards. Maybe I only use one of them, or maybe they need to be physically connected in a certain way (one to LAN, the other WAN). In this particular case, it is pity that it is not more deterministic in the first place. When installing a new system, it is not unknown for the ethernet devices not to be enumerated in the same order when booted from install CD and installed system. This can cause problems when doing a remote server install, where you set /etc/conf.d/net according to how the network is plugged during the install, and then when initially booting the installed system the networking does not work because the network port allocation has changed.
Re: [gentoo-user] mdev for udev substitution instructions web page is up
On Saturday 17 Mar 2012 13:13:25 Mike Edenfield wrote: Walter Dnes wrote: The instructions for replacing udev with mdev are now up at http://www.waltdnes.org/mdev/ validator.w3.org complains about a couple of extensions I used, but it appears to work OK in both Firefox and Midori. Any comments from users of other browsers? The page will be Looks fine in IE/Firefox/Chromium; you shouldn't have any problems with any browsers since the validation errors are on deprecated attributes that are still in wide use. If you really want to fix them so it validates, change: a name=foo -- a id=foo ol type=a -- ol style=list-style-type: lower-alpha It looks fine in Opera too. I suggest you add a header on the page same as the page title for your human visitors. Also I strongly suggest you take your email address off the page before spambots harvest it. Instead, replace the link with a mail form page or popup. Google for a suitable php mail form although there may be JavaScript forms too that are easy to complete and customise as desired. Contact me off- line if you can't find what you want. Thanks for your efforts and please carry on the good work! -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Saturday 17 March 2012 12:54:53 Eliezer Croitoru wrote: genkernel is pretty simple to use if you ask me. just emerege genkernel and then use genkerenl --menuconfig all it will do everything for you the same as in a regular kernel compiling. you have instructions on how to use genkernel on the handbook. What's more, you don't have to keep going through menuconfig if you already have a running self-compiled kernel. Just copy the .config file to somewhere safe (I use, e.g. /boot/config-3.2) and call genkernel with the option to specify the config file it's to use. Sorry but I can't tell you exactly what the parameter is as I don't have genkernel on this box. Someone will be along in a moment though. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On 17-Mar-12 13:50, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2012-03-17 12:11 AM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: An initramfs which does this is created by =sys-kernel/genkernel-3.4.25.1 or =sys-kernel/dracut-017-r1. If you do not want to use these tools, be sure any initramfs you create pre-mounts /usr. Ok, I have never used genkernel, and have no desire to... I have no idea what dracut is or how to use it... I have a remote system that has /usr on a separate partition. So... How do I find out if I am actually *using* an initramfs right now (I know it is built into the kernel), and If I am not, how do I do this without using genkernel? Is dracut t he only other option? Is it easy/trivial to set one up manually? I cannot imagine that gentoo is just going to throw me to the wolves like this without providing *in-depth* instructions on how to make sure my system will boot after this update, like they did with the baselayout-2 update... The same here. This news scared me a little! If during this update some of my servers gets screwed up, I will have to travel 100 miles to fix it on place. Not very nice perspective... BTW, I'm not using genkernel and I can not use it. sys-kernel/dracut is not stable yet, so this update going to be real pain in a**! After baselayout 12 update I thought nothing worse can happen to me. Now I see I was terribly wrong... Jarry -- ___ This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists! Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 22:33:55 + Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: I also have a rule on a headless media server to run a script that mounts a USB stick, copies files to it, unmounts it and lets me know when it is done. I can mark files for copying at any time and my wife can just plug in a stick when she wants to copy them for viewing on a small, non-connected TV by her treadmill (her treadmill, I emphasise - I find a keyboard and trackball give me all the exercise I want). Why not connect that TV? ;) Because the hardware to do so would cost around £100, USB sticks cost rather less :P The hardware is more shiny than the USB stick. Go on, do it. You know you want to. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 22:27:02 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: On March 14, 2012 at 1:22 PM Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: Alan, the vast majority of Linux users right now are phone users. At least, that's how I see it. Again, think about phones. And tablets. And TVs. And [insert-here-cool-gadgets-from-the-future]. Right now Linux runs in my phone, my TV's, my routers and every computer I own. I have a couple of Windows installations, which I use once or twice every three months (I ported a PyGTK program to Windows last week, so I had to boot into Windows for the first time this year). I want Linux running on *everything*, and what is more: I don't want android in my handhelds, I want the full GNOME experience. Regards. -- What phone do you have running which Linux? I'm curious because a couple months ago we got new Samsung Galaxy S phones. I'd previously used an iPhone 3GS for a bit over a year. Since I can't stand Apple, as a company, it was with great joy that we could get 2 of these Galaxy S phones for free (with the 2-year contract, of course). Sony XPeria Play, with Android 2.3.3, I believe. Android != Linux (in context of userspace) To get a phone shipped with a running Linux (in the usual definition of Linux, not Richard Stallman's) you need that Nokia one that will never again see the light of day. Or root your Sony and stick Debian on it. Being a Sony device, that might be hard. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: This item just appeared after eix-sync: HTPC ~ # eselect news read 2012-03-16-udev-181-unmasking Title udev-181 unmasking Author William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org Posted 2012-03-16 Revision 1 udev-181 is being unmasked on 2012-03-19. This news item is to inform you that once you upgrade to a version of udev =181, if you have /usr on a separate partition, you must boot your system with an initramfs which pre-mounts /usr. An initramfs which does this is created by =sys-kernel/genkernel-3.4.25.1 or =sys-kernel/dracut-017-r1. If you do not want to use these tools, be sure any initramfs you create pre-mounts /usr. Also, if you are using OpenRC, you must upgrade to = openrc-0.9.9. For more information on why this has been done, see the following URL: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. Houston, we have a problem! -- Happy Penguin Computers `) 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com Some comments from my limited, end-user, not-a-professional, just-out-here-in-the-Ether, end-user point of view: 1) Unmasking udev-181 doesn't mean it becomes stable, so I am assuming (for now) that since I run stable Gentoo this won't directly effect me on Monday. Comments? 2) There's an extra danger lurking in that message that if they make udev-181 stable and forget to make OpenRC-0.9.9 stable ahead of that time then people are going to be in a world of pain. 3) I am going to mask both of these versions until the latest possible date. Sorry, but I'll watch others struggle through the problems of conversion on live machines. Boy, I don't look forward to those threads. 4) I don't use a separate /usr so I don't need any of this. I suspect most casual Gentoo users like me are pretty much the same. 4) I am going to look at doing a dual boot Gentoo install on some system here at home to try this out. Damn, I don't have time for this but what choice are they giving me. I'll continue to run stable but look at ~amd64 for both OpenRC udev, as well as possibly trying out the mdev systemd paths. I guess I'll be soliciting positives and negatives about all the possibilities. The recent threads have been so long that I lost track. Maybe someone will put together a Gentoo Wiki page on udev vs mdev vs systemd vs OpenRC vs whatever I forgot? 5) If things work locally then (and this is a BIG maybe) maybe I'll look at new dual-boot installs remotely. Those machines have plenty of disk space. While my remote machines aren't globally important they are what my parents now in their 80's use for web browsing email. Don't want them to be out of touch with the world. 6) Finally, this reminds me of the rush made to push MythTV to some version that finally broke my hardware's compatibility which drove me away from Myth and into the waiting arms of DirecTV. I hope that doesn't happen with Gentoo overall. I understand devs don't want to support old software. I just hope they realize that users aren't all Linux superstars with unlimited time to mess with this stuff while getting a pay check from someone else. Many of us are just normal folk. Over and out for now. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Heads Up - sys-apps/net-tools-1.60_p20120127084908 might break your system -- openvpn still fails
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 02:32:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: I've anyone is hit by this and doesn't have a way to download an older version anymore, the solution is fairly simple: ln -s /bin/ifconfig /sbin/ /etc/init.d/net.lo restart /etc/init.d/net.eth0 restart rm /sbin/ifconfig [sync and update world] (Substitute eth0 with whatever you're using.) This appears to help with eth0 etc, but my openvpn fails with Linux ifconfig failed: could not execute external program Leaving the sbin symlink in place fixes this. I didn't see any gentoo bugs for this -- I can create a new one, but is there another one related to the symlink that I should add this note to? -- ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._. Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman rocket surgeon / fe...@crowfix.com GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E 6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933 I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o
Re: [gentoo-user] Where does /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight come from?
[snip] I have to enter 'echo 0 /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness' again every time xlockmore comes on. Does anyone know what's going on there? - Grant Strangely, this isn't required unless xlockmore has been running for at least a few minutes. Does it sound like this is induced by xlockmore behavior or Xorg or something else? - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: This item just appeared after eix-sync: HTPC ~ # eselect news read 2012-03-16-udev-181-unmasking Title udev-181 unmasking Author William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org Posted 2012-03-16 Revision 1 udev-181 is being unmasked on 2012-03-19. This news item is to inform you that once you upgrade to a version of udev =181, if you have /usr on a separate partition, you must boot your system with an initramfs which pre-mounts /usr. An initramfs which does this is created by =sys-kernel/genkernel-3.4.25.1 or =sys-kernel/dracut-017-r1. If you do not want to use these tools, be sure any initramfs you create pre-mounts /usr. Also, if you are using OpenRC, you must upgrade to = openrc-0.9.9. For more information on why this has been done, see the following URL: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. Houston, we have a problem! -- Happy Penguin Computers `) 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com Some comments from my limited, end-user, not-a-professional, just-out-here-in-the-Ether, end-user point of view: 1) Unmasking udev-181 doesn't mean it becomes stable, so I am assuming (for now) that since I run stable Gentoo this won't directly effect me on Monday. Comments? That is correct. udev-181 is getting unmasked (removed from /usr/portage/profiles/package.mask), not stabilized (it will remain ~x86/~amd64). For it to be keyworded amd64/x86, I would suspect it will take *at least* a month, probably longer. I would suspect that when it does get stabilized, the needed versions of dracut/genkernel/openrc will get stabilized too. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP 1) Unmasking udev-181 doesn't mean it becomes stable, so I am assuming (for now) that since I run stable Gentoo this won't directly effect me on Monday. Comments? That is correct. udev-181 is getting unmasked (removed from /usr/portage/profiles/package.mask), not stabilized (it will remain ~x86/~amd64). For it to be keyworded amd64/x86, I would suspect it will take *at least* a month, probably longer. I would suspect that when it does get stabilized, the needed versions of dracut/genkernel/openrc will get stabilized too. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México Thanks Canek. That's my assumption. Additionally, I'm going to guess that someone out there will make the current udev available through an overlay going out a long time in the future so I'm not really very worried about this today. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
you know, with that 'put everything into /usr' crap going on, I don't see any reason to have a seperate /usr at all. /root is completely empty. So what? Put everything on one partition and go on. I will not use an initramfs if I can get away with it. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On 2012-03-17 19:38, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: you know, with that 'put everything into /usr' crap going on, I don't see any reason to have a seperate /usr at all. /root is completely empty. So what? Put everything on one partition and go on. Yes, let's do away with partitions altogether, who needs them? Let's also get rid of directories, and come to think of it, let's put everything into one binary file (kernel + userspace)! Perhaps we can call it initeverything? Nice and tidy! Oh, better yet, let's put it into the firmware (may need to expand current flash ROM though), that way we can do away with harddrives (saving stuff in the volatile memory instead)! W00t? I will not use an initramfs if I can get away with it. See above... PS. Keep this email away from Poettering and Sievert; don't want to give them any ideas! Best regards Peter K, sarcasm trainee
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
Am Samstag, 17. März 2012, 20:40:02 schrieb pk: On 2012-03-17 19:38, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: you know, with that 'put everything into /usr' crap going on, I don't see any reason to have a seperate /usr at all. /root is completely empty. So what? Put everything on one partition and go on. Yes, let's do away with partitions altogether, who needs them? Let's also get rid of directories, and come to think of it, let's put everything into one binary file (kernel + userspace)! Perhaps we can call it initeverything? Nice and tidy! Oh, better yet, let's put it into the firmware (may need to expand current flash ROM though), that way we can do away with harddrives (saving stuff in the volatile memory instead)! W00t? I will not use an initramfs if I can get away with it. See above... PS. Keep this email away from Poettering and Sievert; don't want to give them any ideas! Best regards Peter K, sarcasm trainee seriously, you have seemed to miss some news. There is a move by redhatco to move almost everything from / to /usr. With nothing left than some mountpoints - why put / on its own partition? There is nothing to contain apart from /etc. Your sarcasm fails because you think that there is an intrinsic reason to keep / seperate. Well, with / filled with usefull binaries to bring a hosed system back from the garbage pile that was true for some peole. But with the current movement there isn't anything there at all. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 08:10:35 -0700 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: 4) I don't use a separate /usr so I don't need any of this. I suspect most casual Gentoo users like me are pretty much the same. This news item in no way applies to you and you are completely unaffected. You can safely update openrc and udev. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On 2012-03-17 21:09, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: seriously, you have seemed to miss some news. There is a move by redhatco to move almost everything from / to /usr. With nothing left than some mountpoints - why put / on its own partition? There is nothing to contain apart from /etc. Nope, haven't missed a thing; I'm on the other side of the fence (of course the _right_ side :-) ), where we can keep all our /bin /sbin /usr directories separate and live happily everafter... ;-) Your sarcasm fails because you think that there is an intrinsic reason to keep / seperate. Well, with / filled with usefull binaries to bring a hosed system back from the garbage pile that was true for some peole. But with the current movement there isn't anything there at all. You're correct in a sense; if I choose to accept the New World Order (NWO) and put everything into /usr then you would be correct. As it stands now, I'm going in the other direction (putting /, /usr, /var, /home on separate harddrives)... :-D But I guess Gentoo itself will adapt to the NWO eventually, unless (by some miracle) some sanity is restored, so I'll have to find a new OS to use (probably FreeBSD)... Best regards Peter K
Re: [gentoo-user] mdev for udev substitution instructions web page is up
On 03/17/2012 03:51 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: The page will be permanently under construction, i.e. evolving as we find out more about how mdev works. Unless you want to maintain total control of the data flow I would suggest turning that page into a new wiki page at https://wiki.gentoo.org/ to ease contribution to others and to increase availability and accessibility of that content. Best, Sebastian
[gentoo-user] Re: The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 08:10:35 -0700 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: 4) I don't use a separate /usr so I don't need any of this. I suspect most casual Gentoo users like me are pretty much the same. 4) I am going to look at doing a dual boot Gentoo install on some system here at home to try this out. Damn, I don't have time for this but what choice are they giving me. 4 ;) If your /usr doesn't have its own partition, you shouldn't need to sweat any of this. AIUI, only people with separate /usr need to either build an initrd or work out an alternative to udev.
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 08:10:35 -0700 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: 4) I don't use a separate /usr so I don't need any of this. I suspect most casual Gentoo users like me are pretty much the same. This news item in no way applies to you and you are completely unaffected. You can safely update openrc and udev. Yeah, that was my reading of it, and I appreciate your response. In this case, and I don't know why, I have this feeling that this thing is gonna turn out badly and I'd be better being prepared on the initramfs side of things. I did have to use one to bring up my server with / on a RAID6, not because I needed it long term but in the short term I couldn't determine how mdadm was numbering the RAID so that I could get grub.conf correct. I'm somehow a bot worried something is going to slip by the devs and I'd be better off having an initramfs already running on the box when I do allow the upgrades. Planning on giving Dracut a try. Thanks, Mark
[gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote: Hello, Nikos. On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. No, we don't. I hope systemd arrives soon. It's the best init system I ever saw. What's so good about it? What will it do for me? I have this horrible sneaking suspicion that it will be more complicated than /sbin/init + OpenRC, just like udev + initramfs is more complicated than udev, and CUPS is more complicated than classical lpr. Why do you find it so good? No idea. I only posted this because the OP didn't say what's bad about systemd :-) I really don't know I should care whether my system runs OpenRC or systemd.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote: Hello, Nikos. On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. No, we don't. I hope systemd arrives soon. It's the best init system I ever saw. What's so good about it? What will it do for me? I have this horrible sneaking suspicion that it will be more complicated than /sbin/init + OpenRC, just like udev + initramfs is more complicated than udev, and CUPS is more complicated than classical lpr. Why do you find it so good? No idea. I only posted this because the OP didn't say what's bad about systemd :-) I really don't know I should care whether my system runs OpenRC or systemd. Take this with a grain (or a kilo) of salt, since I'm obviously biased, but IMHO this are systemd advantages over OpenRC: * Really fast boot. OpenRC takes at least double the time that systemd does when booting, easily verifiable. In my laptop systemd is twice as fast as OpenRC; in my desktop is three times faster. * Really parallel service startup: OpenRC has never been reliable on parallel service startup; its documentation says it explicitly. * Really simple service unit files: The service unit files are really small, really simple, really easy to understand/modify. Compare the 9 lines of sshd.service: $ cat /etc/systemd/system/sshd.service [Unit] Description=SSH Secure Shell Service After=syslog.target [Service] ExecStart=/usr/sbin/sshd -D [Install] WantedBy=multi-user.target with the 84 of /etc/init.d/sshd (80 without comments). * Really good documentation: systemd has one of the best documentations I have ever seen in *any* project. Everything (except really new, experimental features) is documented, with manual pages explaining everything. And besides, there are blog posts by Lennart explaining in a more informal way how to do neat tricks with systemd. * Really good in-site customization: The service unit files are trivially overrided with custom ones for specific installations, without needing to touch the ones installed by systemd or a program. With OpenRC, if I modify a /etc/init.d file, chances are I need to check out my next installation so I can see how the new file differs from the old one, and adapt the changes to my customized version. * All the goodies from Control Groups: You can use kernel cgroups to monitor/control several properties of your daemons, out of the box, almost no admin effort involved. * It tries to unify Linux behaviour among distros (some can argue that this is a bad thing): Using systemd, the same configurations/techniques work the same in every distribution. No more need to learn /etc/conf.d, /etc/sysconfig, /etc/default hacks by different distros. * Finally, and what I think is the most fundamental difference between systemd and almost any other init system: The service unit files in systemd are *declarative*; you tell the daemon *what* to do, not *how* to do it. If the service files are shell scripts (like in OpenRC/SysV), everything can spiral out of control really easily. And it usually does (again, look at sshd; and that one is actully nicely written, there are all kind of monsters out there abusing the power that shell gives you). These are the ones off the top of my head; but what I like the most about systemd is that it just works, and that it makes a lot of sense (at least to me). Most of systemd features can be implemented in OpenRC (although the speed difference will never be eliminated if OpenRC keeps using shell files). My question is: why bother? systemd is already here, it already works, and it's actually supported in Gentoo. But again, remember that I'm biased: I keep an overlay to run Gentoo systems with only systemd; no OpenRC, no baselayout, no SysV. You guys can try it if you want: http://xochitl.matem.unam.mx/~canek/gentoo-systemd-only/ Usual disclaimer: I take no responsibility if using my overlay results in your systems asploding. That said, I'm using it on all my machines without a hitch. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
[gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On 18/03/12 03:45, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Nikos Chantziarasrea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote: Hello, Nikos. On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. No, we don't. I hope systemd arrives soon. It's the best init system I ever saw. What's so good about it? What will it do for me? I have this horrible sneaking suspicion that it will be more complicated than /sbin/init + OpenRC, just like udev + initramfs is more complicated than udev, and CUPS is more complicated than classical lpr. Why do you find it so good? No idea. I only posted this because the OP didn't say what's bad about systemd :-) I really don't know I should care whether my system runs OpenRC or systemd. Take this with a grain (or a kilo) of salt, since I'm obviously biased, but IMHO this are systemd advantages over OpenRC: [...] * It tries to unify Linux behaviour among distros (some can argue that this is a bad thing): Using systemd, the same configurations/techniques work the same in every distribution. No more need to learn /etc/conf.d, /etc/sysconfig, /etc/default hacks by different distros. Out of the things you listed, this strikes me as the most important. Linux really needs standards. When I install software on Windows, it knows how to add its startup services. On Linux, this is all manual work if your distro isn't supported, especially on Gentoo. If there's no ebuild for it, you spend your whole day trying to make it work.
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Sat, 2012-03-17 at 17:43 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 08:10:35 -0700 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: 4) I don't use a separate /usr so I don't need any of this. I suspect most casual Gentoo users like me are pretty much the same. This news item in no way applies to you and you are completely unaffected. You can safely update openrc and udev. Yeah, that was my reading of it, and I appreciate your response. In this case, and I don't know why, I have this feeling that this thing is gonna turn out badly and I'd be better being prepared on the initramfs side of things. I did have to use one to bring up my server with / on a RAID6, not because I needed it long term but in the short term I couldn't determine how mdadm was numbering the RAID so that I could get grub.conf correct. I'm somehow a bot worried something is going to slip by the devs and I'd be better off having an initramfs already running on the box when I do allow the upgrades. Planning on giving Dracut a try. Thanks, Mark Definitely be careful! - I went the genkernel route and except for laptops use LVM and separate partitions. Be very wary of using an existing kernel config - there are a few unexpected things that I had to enable to get an already working, but customised kernel config to boot properly after genkernel used it. I still need to cut the config down some more to speed booting (restrict the autodetect to hardware I actually have). genkernel doesnt support suspend/resume without patching so beware if thats a consideration. I do get the feeling I now have a less reliable, flakier system with more demands on admin time because everytime I upgrade I will have more issues. I might eventually do away with the separate /usr if they ever get it read only and reliable, but thats likely to a way off yet and none of my machines use a big enough (non LVM) / to hold it anyway. BillK
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Mar 18, 2012 8:48 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote: Hello, Nikos. On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. No, we don't. I hope systemd arrives soon. It's the best init system I ever saw. What's so good about it? What will it do for me? I have this horrible sneaking suspicion that it will be more complicated than /sbin/init + OpenRC, just like udev + initramfs is more complicated than udev, and CUPS is more complicated than classical lpr. Why do you find it so good? No idea. I only posted this because the OP didn't say what's bad about systemd :-) I really don't know I should care whether my system runs OpenRC or systemd. Take this with a grain (or a kilo) of salt, since I'm obviously biased, but IMHO this are systemd advantages over OpenRC: * Really fast boot. OpenRC takes at least double the time that systemd does when booting, easily verifiable. In my laptop systemd is twice as fast as OpenRC; in my desktop is three times faster. * Really parallel service startup: OpenRC has never been reliable on parallel service startup; its documentation says it explicitly. * Really simple service unit files: The service unit files are really small, really simple, really easy to understand/modify. Compare the 9 lines of sshd.service: $ cat /etc/systemd/system/sshd.service [Unit] Description=SSH Secure Shell Service After=syslog.target [Service] ExecStart=/usr/sbin/sshd -D [Install] WantedBy=multi-user.target with the 84 of /etc/init.d/sshd (80 without comments). * Really good documentation: systemd has one of the best documentations I have ever seen in *any* project. Everything (except really new, experimental features) is documented, with manual pages explaining everything. And besides, there are blog posts by Lennart explaining in a more informal way how to do neat tricks with systemd. * Really good in-site customization: The service unit files are trivially overrided with custom ones for specific installations, without needing to touch the ones installed by systemd or a program. With OpenRC, if I modify a /etc/init.d file, chances are I need to check out my next installation so I can see how the new file differs from the old one, and adapt the changes to my customized version. * All the goodies from Control Groups: You can use kernel cgroups to monitor/control several properties of your daemons, out of the box, almost no admin effort involved. * It tries to unify Linux behaviour among distros (some can argue that this is a bad thing): Using systemd, the same configurations/techniques work the same in every distribution. No more need to learn /etc/conf.d, /etc/sysconfig, /etc/default hacks by different distros. * Finally, and what I think is the most fundamental difference between systemd and almost any other init system: The service unit files in systemd are *declarative*; you tell the daemon *what* to do, not *how* to do it. If the service files are shell scripts (like in OpenRC/SysV), everything can spiral out of control really easily. And it usually does (again, look at sshd; and that one is actully nicely written, there are all kind of monsters out there abusing the power that shell gives you). These are the ones off the top of my head; but what I like the most about systemd is that it just works, and that it makes a lot of sense (at least to me). Most of systemd features can be implemented in OpenRC (although the speed difference will never be eliminated if OpenRC keeps using shell files). My question is: why bother? systemd is already here, it already works, and it's actually supported in Gentoo. But again, remember that I'm biased: I keep an overlay to run Gentoo systems with only systemd; no OpenRC, no baselayout, no SysV. You guys can try it if you want: http://xochitl.matem.unam.mx/~canek/gentoo-systemd-only/ Usual disclaimer: I take no responsibility if using my overlay results in your systems asploding. That said, I'm using it on all my machines without a hitch. Regards. Interesting... However, what if the service is complex? For example, I created a gatewall service which, upon boot, initializes : * Routing tables and the RPDB * ipset * iptables while ensuring that upon shutdown, the settings of the above are (optionally) saved. How do I specify such intelligence? Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 8:20 PM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: On Mar 18, 2012 8:48 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote: Hello, Nikos. On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. No, we don't. I hope systemd arrives soon. It's the best init system I ever saw. What's so good about it? What will it do for me? I have this horrible sneaking suspicion that it will be more complicated than /sbin/init + OpenRC, just like udev + initramfs is more complicated than udev, and CUPS is more complicated than classical lpr. Why do you find it so good? No idea. I only posted this because the OP didn't say what's bad about systemd :-) I really don't know I should care whether my system runs OpenRC or systemd. Take this with a grain (or a kilo) of salt, since I'm obviously biased, but IMHO this are systemd advantages over OpenRC: * Really fast boot. OpenRC takes at least double the time that systemd does when booting, easily verifiable. In my laptop systemd is twice as fast as OpenRC; in my desktop is three times faster. * Really parallel service startup: OpenRC has never been reliable on parallel service startup; its documentation says it explicitly. * Really simple service unit files: The service unit files are really small, really simple, really easy to understand/modify. Compare the 9 lines of sshd.service: $ cat /etc/systemd/system/sshd.service [Unit] Description=SSH Secure Shell Service After=syslog.target [Service] ExecStart=/usr/sbin/sshd -D [Install] WantedBy=multi-user.target with the 84 of /etc/init.d/sshd (80 without comments). * Really good documentation: systemd has one of the best documentations I have ever seen in *any* project. Everything (except really new, experimental features) is documented, with manual pages explaining everything. And besides, there are blog posts by Lennart explaining in a more informal way how to do neat tricks with systemd. * Really good in-site customization: The service unit files are trivially overrided with custom ones for specific installations, without needing to touch the ones installed by systemd or a program. With OpenRC, if I modify a /etc/init.d file, chances are I need to check out my next installation so I can see how the new file differs from the old one, and adapt the changes to my customized version. * All the goodies from Control Groups: You can use kernel cgroups to monitor/control several properties of your daemons, out of the box, almost no admin effort involved. * It tries to unify Linux behaviour among distros (some can argue that this is a bad thing): Using systemd, the same configurations/techniques work the same in every distribution. No more need to learn /etc/conf.d, /etc/sysconfig, /etc/default hacks by different distros. * Finally, and what I think is the most fundamental difference between systemd and almost any other init system: The service unit files in systemd are *declarative*; you tell the daemon *what* to do, not *how* to do it. If the service files are shell scripts (like in OpenRC/SysV), everything can spiral out of control really easily. And it usually does (again, look at sshd; and that one is actully nicely written, there are all kind of monsters out there abusing the power that shell gives you). These are the ones off the top of my head; but what I like the most about systemd is that it just works, and that it makes a lot of sense (at least to me). Most of systemd features can be implemented in OpenRC (although the speed difference will never be eliminated if OpenRC keeps using shell files). My question is: why bother? systemd is already here, it already works, and it's actually supported in Gentoo. But again, remember that I'm biased: I keep an overlay to run Gentoo systems with only systemd; no OpenRC, no baselayout, no SysV. You guys can try it if you want: http://xochitl.matem.unam.mx/~canek/gentoo-systemd-only/ Usual disclaimer: I take no responsibility if using my overlay results in your systems asploding. That said, I'm using it on all my machines without a hitch. Regards. Interesting... However, what if the service is complex? For example, I created a gatewall service which, upon boot, initializes : * Routing tables and the RPDB * ipset * iptables while ensuring that upon shutdown, the settings of the above are (optionally) saved. How do I specify such intelligence? Well, first of all you have options for starting a service, but also for stopping it. But besides that, please understand that while systemd does not use shell files *itself*, it doesn't stop you from using them if you so desire. In other words, put the intelligence on a script:
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 18/03/12 03:45, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: snip [...] * It tries to unify Linux behaviour among distros (some can argue that this is a bad thing): Using systemd, the same configurations/techniques work the same in every distribution. No more need to learn /etc/conf.d, /etc/sysconfig, /etc/default hacks by different distros. Out of the things you listed, this strikes me as the most important. Linux really needs standards. When I install software on Windows, it knows how to add its startup services. On Linux, this is all manual work if your distro isn't supported, especially on Gentoo. If there's no ebuild for it, you spend your whole day trying to make it work. My day job's on the windows side of things... and as true as it is that the application developer knows the approach they're going to use today to get their piece of software to start when windows does (as often as not, doing so without the knowledge of the user), there's a *massive* range of ways to do just that, and they *do* vary as you move from one version of windows to the next... and tracking down what's actually starting at boot (and why) without tools explicitly created to give that information is an incredible amount of work on the side of the user and even the usual admin. I'm not sure I'd cite that as a positive benefit on the windows side of things... -- Poison [BLX] Joshua M. Murphy
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and permissions problems
pk wrote:
On 2012-03-17 11:19, Dale wrote:
The program 'su' could not be found.
Ensure your PATH is set correctly.
What does 'echo $PATH' give you? /bin should be in your path (that's
where 'su' is located, or should be)... My $PATH looks like this:
/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.5.3:/usr/games/bin
I went to a console, the only place I can log in, and I got nothing for
my paths. It is empty.
I don't know if this is the case but maybe, you're using some of the
new-fangled screw up'ed tools like, dracut, systemd etc. that wants to
move everything into /usr (on the same partition as /) and as such
changes your $PATH accordingly (without checking perhaps - which would
be consistent with the arrogance of the coders).
-rws--x--x 1 root root 36680 Mar 16 23:36 su
-rws--x--x 1 root root 52416 Mar 16 23:19 umount
-rws--x--x 1 root root 42592 Mar 16 23:36 passwd
The 's' part is for the SetUID bit which gives the root-owned command in
question root privileges, in order to switch user... See:
http://blog.superuser.com/2011/04/22/linux-permissions-demystified/
I am using the dracut thingy to boot with. I hope that thingy has not
screwed up my system. :-@
(esp. the Getting sticky! chapter).
That's not all though...:
it, then what? I am in the wheel group. I'm also in the tty group.
Check your /etc/pam.d/su file... it should contain (at least) this line:
auth required pam_wheel.so use_uid
That's what gives you permission to use 'su' as a member of the 'wheel'
group ('su' is controlled by 'pam').
Best regards
Peter K
I do have that line in there. There are a few others too so I guess it
is normal.
I'm going to check out that linky.
Dale
:-) :-)
--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!
Miss the compile output? Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--quiet-build=n
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On March 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote: Hello, Nikos. On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. No, we don't. I hope systemd arrives soon. It's the best init system I ever saw. What's so good about it? What will it do for me? I have this horrible sneaking suspicion that it will be more complicated than /sbin/init + OpenRC, just like udev + initramfs is more complicated than udev, and CUPS is more complicated than classical lpr. Why do you find it so good? No idea. I only posted this because the OP didn't say what's bad about systemd :-) I really don't know I should care whether my system runs OpenRC or systemd. I'm the OP, and often I don't know how to express myself. It is my understanding that systemd is going to force an initramfs on you even if you only have / and no other partitions. (Could it be initrd and not initramfs?) I'm all for automounting a device when it's plugged in, if that's what the user chooses. But for me, with my workstation, laptop, wife's PC and daughter's laptop -- we just don't need or care for it. Seems a shame to be using udev and then have to completely change your system when 181 comes out, or freeze it at . Therefore, we don't install anything to automount devices. We have lines such as these in fstab: UUID=6C5F-3742/Libby-Vivitar vfat noauto,users,rw,gid=100,dmask=0002,fmask=0113 0 0 for those devices we own. When we get a new device, we add a new line. We don't use a DE either, just Fluxbox. The bottom line is that I don't like things being forced on me (hint, get the vaseline, they're on the way!) And I don't like upstream forcing such nefarious changes on the distros. And for the Lennart fanboi, his coding is so questionable that Lennartware has become derogatory slang. (Of course, you already know that.) -- Happy Penguin Computers`) 126 Fenco Drive( \ Tupelo, MS 38801^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Mar 18, 2012 9:44 AM, Joshua Murphy poiso...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 18/03/12 03:45, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: snip [...] * It tries to unify Linux behaviour among distros (some can argue that this is a bad thing): Using systemd, the same configurations/techniques work the same in every distribution. No more need to learn /etc/conf.d, /etc/sysconfig, /etc/default hacks by different distros. Out of the things you listed, this strikes me as the most important. Linux really needs standards. When I install software on Windows, it knows how to add its startup services. On Linux, this is all manual work if your distro isn't supported, especially on Gentoo. If there's no ebuild for it, you spend your whole day trying to make it work. My day job's on the windows side of things... and as true as it is that the application developer knows the approach they're going to use today to get their piece of software to start when windows does (as often as not, doing so without the knowledge of the user), there's a *massive* range of ways to do just that, and they *do* vary as you move from one version of windows to the next... and tracking down what's actually starting at boot (and why) without tools explicitly created to give that information is an incredible amount of work on the side of the user and even the usual admin. I'm not sure I'd cite that as a positive benefit on the windows side of things... True, that. Case in point : a couple of months back, I had great trouble trying to start the server service *after* the iSCSI service. Finally have to resort on a script starting using Windows Scheduler (post-boot event) On Linux, I *know* where services are started. The locations might be different from one distro to another, but within one distro, there's (usually) only 2 ways a service get started. Plus, as a server guy, I don't really care if the boot up process is faster; I need deterministic boot process, with as succinct instrumentation as possible. Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: On March 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote: Hello, Nikos. On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. No, we don't. I hope systemd arrives soon. It's the best init system I ever saw. What's so good about it? What will it do for me? I have this horrible sneaking suspicion that it will be more complicated than /sbin/init + OpenRC, just like udev + initramfs is more complicated than udev, and CUPS is more complicated than classical lpr. Why do you find it so good? No idea. I only posted this because the OP didn't say what's bad about systemd :-) I really don't know I should care whether my system runs OpenRC or systemd. I'm the OP, and often I don't know how to express myself. It is my understanding that systemd is going to force an initramfs on you even if you only have / and no other partitions. (Could it be initrd and not initramfs?) I'm all for automounting a device when it's plugged in, if that's what the user chooses. But for me, with my workstation, laptop, wife's PC and daughter's laptop -- we just don't need or care for it. Seems a shame to be using udev and then have to completely change your system when 181 comes out, or freeze it at . Therefore, we don't install anything to automount devices. We have lines such as these in fstab: UUID=6C5F-3742 /Libby-Vivitar vfat noauto,users,rw,gid=100,dmask=0002,fmask=0113 0 0 for those devices we own. When we get a new device, we add a new line. We don't use a DE either, just Fluxbox. The bottom line is that I don't like things being forced on me (hint, get the vaseline, they're on the way!) And I don't like upstream forcing such nefarious changes on the distros. And for the Lennart fanboi, his coding is so questionable that Lennartware has become derogatory slang. (Of course, you already know that.) No need to get personal man, relax. I'm getting my PhD in Computer Science, and worked several years as professional programmer. In my not-so-limited experience, Lennart's code is clean, fast, and usually does what he says it will do. So, no, I don't already know that. You could argue about the overall design, or what goals his code has, but its quality you are the only one questioning it. So again, please, [citation needed]. You still haven't provided any reference to support your claim that Lennart's code (specifically systemd's code) is poorly done. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On March 17, 2012 at 9:45 PM Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: But again, remember that I'm biased: I keep an overlay to run Gentoo systems with only systemd; no OpenRC, no baselayout, no SysV. You guys can try it if you want: http://xochitl.matem.unam.mx/~canek/gentoo-systemd-only/ Usual disclaimer: I take no responsibility if using my overlay results in your systems asploding. That said, I'm using it on all my machines without a hitch. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Okay, I'm game. Monday (time and work flow permitting) I plan on building a new PC and installing Gentoo, and replacing the mechanical drive in this Lenovo T420 with a SSD. Far be it from me to be guilty of contempt prior to investigation. Therefore, I'll follow your referenced guide above and do at least one of these installs with systemd. If there is anything out of sync with present stage3 tarballs and portage, it would be great if you could update your docs. The last 2 new installs this week are running Python3.2, and with zero time to actually work on it, I'm submitting even sloppy bug reports to BGO. (Just ran across another app tonight which won't build with python2.) -- Happy Penguin Computers`) 126 Fenco Drive( \ Tupelo, MS 38801^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and permissions problems
On March 17, 2012 at 9:11 AM pk pete...@coolmail.se wrote:
That's what gives you permission to use 'su' as a member of the 'wheel'
group ('su' is controlled by 'pam').
Best regards
Peter K
Am I eternally confused?
su - change user ID or become superuser
It's not _only_ to become root (maybe theoretically if you only have one
normal user). On a true multiuser system you can su (switch user) to any
user.
Since _every_ computer I own or have _ever_ built has -pam globally, pam is
not a requirement to use su ... is it?
mingdao@t420 ~ $ grep pam /etc/make.conf
truetype udev unicode unicode3 vaapi vim-syntax x264 -consolekit -pam
mingdao@t420 ~ $ id
uid=1000(mingdao) gid=1000(mingdao)
groups=1000(mingdao),7(lp),10(wheel),16(cron),18(audio),19(cdrom),27(video),80(cdrw),85(usb),100(users),250(portage)
--
Happy Penguin Computers`)
126 Fenco Drive( \
Tupelo, MS 38801^^
662-269-2706; 662-491-8613
support at happypenguincomputers dot com
http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: On March 17, 2012 at 9:45 PM Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: But again, remember that I'm biased: I keep an overlay to run Gentoo systems with only systemd; no OpenRC, no baselayout, no SysV. You guys can try it if you want: http://xochitl.matem.unam.mx/~canek/gentoo-systemd-only/ Usual disclaimer: I take no responsibility if using my overlay results in your systems asploding. That said, I'm using it on all my machines without a hitch. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Okay, I'm game. Monday (time and work flow permitting) I plan on building a new PC and installing Gentoo, and replacing the mechanical drive in this Lenovo T420 with a SSD. Far be it from me to be guilty of contempt prior to investigation. Therefore, I'll follow your referenced guide above and do at least one of these installs with systemd. If there is anything out of sync with present stage3 tarballs and portage, it would be great if you could update your docs. The last 2 new installs this week are running Python3.2, and with zero time to actually work on it, I'm submitting even sloppy bug reports to BGO. (Just ran across another app tonight which won't build with python2.) If you want to test systemd, you don't need to use my overlay; and actually, I would not recommend it: it's made thinking for people already using systemd. Just follow the wiki instructions: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd I don't want you to get the wrong idea because of my possible mistakes: use systemd for Gentoo as the Gentoo devs have planned it. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
On March 17, 2012 at 10:20 AM Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
wrote:
Android != Linux (in context of userspace)
To get a phone shipped with a running Linux (in the usual definition of
Linux, not Richard Stallman's) you need that Nokia one that will never
again see the light of day.
Or root your Sony and stick Debian on it. Being a Sony device, that
might be hard.
--
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com
I could also say, IMHO, Ubuntu != Linux (in context of userspace) :-)}
My personal definition of Linux is The Linux Kernel, which source can
be downloaded from kernel.org.
My Samsung Galaxy S has Kernel version 2.6.35.7, which I assume to be The
Linux Kernel.
Sure, it's not beyond Google to steal, or borrow, code and rewrite enough
stuff and call it it's own. But we all know the source. (And failure to
agree to the new Google {Play,Music,Books} and YouTube license(s) has
caused me not to be able to upgrade applications ... 16 iirc and counting.)
I'm just wondering what Linux phone he, or anyone, is using -- after him
saying [the vast majority of Linux users right now are phone users.]
Maybe the vast majority of Linux users are phone users, but I took it to
mean the vast majority of Linux users are those using phones running Linux
(which I highly doubt).
After using the previously mentioned iPhone (my first smartphone) for 1
year, it just made me feel weird being so not-like-Linux. But it works
well, except for decreased cell signal when holding the phone.
After using this Android phone for 3 months, I'm counting the days until I
can upgrade to an iPhone. The Galaxy has frozen, crashed, hung; it's
wireless signal is not nearly as good as the iPhone, nor is it's battery
usage. It has features which I like over the iPhone 3 series, but I've
never used a 4 series to compare. And customer services says, Maybe you
have a virus. We're not trained on Android, just Windoze and Apple
devices. (So why offer them to your customers? There's money in it,
silly!)
Just curious about phones. After using these 2 smartphones (since June
2010), I miss my dumb flip phone. If money were no object, I'd buy one of
the new iPads for ultra portable internet access, and get a simple dumb
phone for cellular use.
--
Happy Penguin Computers`)
126 Fenco Drive( \
Tupelo, MS 38801^^
662-269-2706; 662-491-8613
support at happypenguincomputers dot com
http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
[gentoo-user] Power management or something?
I have a fresh install of Gentoo on my laptop and I'm having some trouble with the backlight that I think is related to the screen going into some sort of power save mode or something along those lines. Are there power management settings somewhere or something similar? I'm on xfce4. - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On March 17, 2012 at 8:43 PM Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: snip initramfs side of things. I did have to use one to bring up my server with / on a RAID6, not because I needed it long term but in the short term I couldn't determine how mdadm was numbering the RAID so that I could get grub.conf correct. I'm somehow a bot worried something is going to slip by the devs and I'd be better off having an initramfs already running on the box when I do allow the upgrades. Planning on giving Dracut a try. Thanks, Mark The real short of this is that if you use 0.90 superblocks, and /boot on it's own little partition, your kernel can assembly your RAIDwhateverlevel without an initrd image. You will reboot with the /dev/md0 you created as /dev/md0. And unless you have partitions (or is it single drives) over 2TB, you can use metadata=0.90. As they say, Works For Me (R). I've yet to read a simple explanation of HOW-TO do this in a Gentoo doc (not that it doesn't exist), but you can follow this very simple README_RAID used in Slackware to build them on Gentoo: http://slackware.oregonstate.edu/slackware64-current/README_RAID.TXT -- Happy Penguin Computers`) 126 Fenco Drive( \ Tupelo, MS 38801^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
[gentoo-user] Assistance if possible
Hi, All of you guys that are more experienced and technical than I am will probably laugh at me. However Today, I wanted to update my computer. I got all kinds of messages related to kde stuff. One my one, I unmerged the offending packages and added the line to my package.keywords file so that an upgrade of a package masked by keyword would be installed. However, activitymanager can't be reinstalled because there isn't an upgrade to 4.8.1. Since I went about things the way I did, I can't get this package installed because everything else is upgraded to 4.8.1 and activitymanager's latest version is 4.7.4. I've done revdep-rebuild and everything is fine there. Can I function without this package until I can get it upgraded to the same level as everything else on my system? Regards, Colleen -- Registered Linux User #411143 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On March 17, 2012 at 10:57 PM Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: On March 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote: Hello, Nikos. On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. No, we don't. I hope systemd arrives soon. It's the best init system I ever saw. What's so good about it? What will it do for me? I have this horrible sneaking suspicion that it will be more complicated than /sbin/init + OpenRC, just like udev + initramfs is more complicated than udev, and CUPS is more complicated than classical lpr. Why do you find it so good? No idea. I only posted this because the OP didn't say what's bad about systemd :-) I really don't know I should care whether my system runs OpenRC or systemd. I'm the OP, and often I don't know how to express myself. It is my understanding that systemd is going to force an initramfs on you even if you only have / and no other partitions. (Could it be initrd and not initramfs?) I'm all for automounting a device when it's plugged in, if that's what the user chooses. But for me, with my workstation, laptop, wife's PC and daughter's laptop -- we just don't need or care for it. Seems a shame to be using udev and then have to completely change your system when 181 comes out, or freeze it at . Therefore, we don't install anything to automount devices. We have lines such as these in fstab: UUID=6C5F-3742/Libby-Vivitar vfat noauto,users,rw,gid=100,dmask=0002,fmask=0113 0 0 for those devices we own. When we get a new device, we add a new line. We don't use a DE either, just Fluxbox. The bottom line is that I don't like things being forced on me (hint, get the vaseline, they're on the way!) And I don't like upstream forcing such nefarious changes on the distros. And for the Lennart fanboi, his coding is so questionable that Lennartware has become derogatory slang. (Of course, you already know that.) No need to get personal man, relax. I disagree ... there's every reason to get personal. Not getting personal doesn't assign the blame. Men stand up and take responsibility for their actions. I'm getting my PhD in Computer Science snip I got my PhD in life before your parents met. So what? Just saying... So again, please, [citation needed]. You still haven't provided any reference to support your claim that Lennart's code (specifically systemd's code) is poorly done. Mate, have you heard of the world wide web? The internet? Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Seriously, mate ... are you his boyfriend, on his payroll, related, or what? You search LKML for yourself. I've been there since 2003 and have numerous memories. How about: http://www.change.org/petitions/lennart-poettering-stop-writing-useless-programs-systemd-journal Sorry, mate ... many of us here are allergic to FUD :-)} -- Happy Penguin Computers`) 126 Fenco Drive( \ Tupelo, MS 38801^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
