Re: [gentoo-user] Something is pulling in gnome-base
On Wednesday 11 Dec 2013 21:04:00 Mick wrote: Let me get this right, if I set 'kde-base/kdeutils-meta -cups' I will still be able to print from kde applications? Here, the K menu item Manage Printing opens a CUPS web page, specifically localhost:631. It's a bog-standard CUPS interface, with no need of KDE complications. There's no printer entry in system settings. I often print a spreadsheet from LibreOffice without problems. So yes, other things being equal, you will. In any case, why not try it and see? You can revert easily enough if you hit a problem. -- Regards Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] recent trouble with wicd and systemd (non-global ctrl_ifname)
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 4:52 PM, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: At home I use a wired connection so did notice the following problem until I traveled and tried to connect wirelessly. The problem must have started sometime within the past month. If I have wicd started by systemd, i.e. systemctl enable wicd The wired network is started fine but not the wireless. Instead, I see in the systemd journal wicd[290]: Failed to connect to non-global ctrl_ifname: wired error: No such file or directory wicd[290]: Failed to connect to non-global ctrl_ifname: wireless error: No such file or directory If I instead systemctl disable wicd, reboot, and then manually type wpa_supplicant -i wireless -c /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf -B it works. Indeed after I have booted I can start wicd and cannot get the error above, but the actual behavior is not consistent. My system is ~amd64, profile gnome/systemd My wireless driver is from the package broadcom-sta (wl) I have never used wicd, so I can't say exactly what it's the problem; but I was under the impression that wicd is basically dead. Its last release was more than a year and a half ago. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] recent trouble with wicd and systemd (non-global ctrl_ifname)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 13/12/13 09:47, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 4:52 PM, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: At home I use a wired connection so did notice the following problem until I traveled and tried to connect wirelessly. The problem must have started sometime within the past month. If I have wicd started by systemd, i.e. systemctl enable wicd The wired network is started fine but not the wireless. Instead, I see in the systemd journal wicd[290]: Failed to connect to non-global ctrl_ifname: wired error: No such file or directory wicd[290]: Failed to connect to non-global ctrl_ifname: wireless error: No such file or directory If I instead systemctl disable wicd, reboot, and then manually type wpa_supplicant -i wireless -c /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf -B it works. Indeed after I have booted I can start wicd and cannot get the error above, but the actual behavior is not consistent. My system is ~amd64, profile gnome/systemd My wireless driver is from the package broadcom-sta (wl) I have never used wicd, so I can't say exactly what it's the problem; but I was under the impression that wicd is basically dead. Its last release was more than a year and a half ago. Regards. I don't use wicd (or systemd) either, but you could have a look at what the systemd unit is attempting to run (assuming it isn't one of it's special type of units). Systemd units are just plain-text files. Default unit location is /usr/lib/systemd/system (or you could try locate wicd.service and the parameter you're looking for is ExecStart. - -- wraeth -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlKqQX4ACgkQGYlqHeQRhkxoQQD+LRA3QJms/qBejtGeiFmiSceu Md0wF/WRmLy36zKPrcMA/jKB5WjGuaFmUq/gAOH5uuVNHIDgdkM/+EkXm5gpcmgA =JstS -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Managing multiple systems with identical hardware
I'm about to embark on this (perilous?) journey and I'm wondering if anyone would make a comment on any of the questions in the last paragraph below. This is basically my plan for setting up a bunch of systems (laptops) in an office which are hardware-identical to my own laptop and creating a framework to manage them all with a bare minimum of time and effort. Thanks, Grant I see what you desire now - essentially you want to clone your laptop (or big chunks of it) over to your other workstations. I've been working on this and I think I have a good and simple plan. My laptop roams around with me and is the master system. The office router is the submaster system. All of the other office systems are minion systems. All of the systems are 100% hardware-identical laptops. All of the minions are 100% software-identical. I install every package that any system needs on the master and create an SSH keypair. The only config files that change from their state on the master are: /etc/conf.d/hostname, /etc/conf.d/net, /etc/ssh/sshd_config, /etc/shorewall/*. I write comments in those files which serve as flags for scripted changes. I write a script that is run from the master to the submaster, or from the submaster to a minion. If it's the former, rsync / is run with exceptions (/usr/portage, /usr/local/portage, /var/log, /tmp, /home, /root but /root/.ssh/id_rsa_script* is included), my personal user is removed, a series of workstation users are created with useradd -m, services are added or removed from /etc/runlevels/default, and config files are changed according to comment flags. If it's the latter, rsync / is run without exceptions, services are added or removed from /etc/runlevels/default, and config files are changed according to comment flags. All user info on the submaster and minions would be effectively reset whenever the script is run and that's fine. Root logins would have to be allowed on the submaster and minions but only with the SSH key. There are probably more paths to exclude when rsyncing master to submaster. That's it. No matter how numerous the minions become, this should allow me to keep everything running by administrating only my own system, pushing that to the submaster, and having the submaster push to the minions. I've been going over the nitty-gritty and everything looks good. What do you think? Is there anything inherently wrong with rsyncing / onto a running system? If there are little or no changes to make, about how much data would actually be transferred? Is there a better tool for this than rsync? I know Funtoo uses git for syncing with their portage tree. - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] Managing multiple systems with identical hardware
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 6:54 PM, Grant emailgr...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm about to embark on this (perilous?) journey and I'm wondering if
anyone would make a comment on any of the questions in the last
paragraph below. This is basically my plan for setting up a bunch of
systems (laptops) in an office which are hardware-identical to my own
laptop and creating a framework to manage them all with a bare minimum
of time and effort.
Thanks,
Grant
I see what you desire now - essentially you want to clone your laptop
(or big chunks of it) over to your other workstations.
I've been working on this and I think I have a good and simple plan.
My laptop roams around with me and is the master system. The office
router is the submaster system. All of the other office systems are
minion systems. All of the systems are 100% hardware-identical
laptops. All of the minions are 100% software-identical.
I install every package that any system needs on the master and create
an SSH keypair. The only config files that change from their state on
the master are: /etc/conf.d/hostname, /etc/conf.d/net,
/etc/ssh/sshd_config, /etc/shorewall/*. I write comments in those
files which serve as flags for scripted changes.
I write a script that is run from the master to the submaster, or from
the submaster to a minion. If it's the former, rsync / is run with
exceptions (/usr/portage, /usr/local/portage, /var/log, /tmp, /home,
/root but /root/.ssh/id_rsa_script* is included), my personal user is
removed, a series of workstation users are created with useradd -m,
services are added or removed from /etc/runlevels/default, and config
files are changed according to comment flags. If it's the latter,
rsync / is run without exceptions, services are added or removed from
/etc/runlevels/default, and config files are changed according to
comment flags.
All user info on the submaster and minions would be effectively reset
whenever the script is run and that's fine. Root logins would have to
be allowed on the submaster and minions but only with the SSH key.
There are probably more paths to exclude when rsyncing master to
submaster.
That's it. No matter how numerous the minions become, this should
allow me to keep everything running by administrating only my own
system, pushing that to the submaster, and having the submaster push
to the minions. I've been going over the nitty-gritty and everything
looks good.
What do you think? Is there anything inherently wrong with rsyncing /
onto a running system? If there are little or no changes to make,
about how much data would actually be transferred? Is there a better
tool for this than rsync? I know Funtoo uses git for syncing with
their portage tree.
- Grant
Only thing that comes immediately to mind in rsyncing an overwrite of
/ is that any process that's running that goes looking for libraries
or other data after the rsync pulls the rug out from beneath it might
behave erratically, crash, kick a puppy, write arbitrary data all over
your drive. Also, it's somewhat important to be careful about the
various not-really-there mounts, /dev, /sys, /proc... /run's probably
touchy too, and /var has a few pieces that might be in use mid-sync
and choke something along the way. My idea on that would be... build
an initramfs that:
1) boots to a script
a) warns the user that it's hungry and that feeding it will be
dangerous to any non-backed-up data, with prompt
b) warns the user again, with prompt ('cause watching an rsync roll
by that eats that document you just spent 3 weeks on isn't fun)
2) mounts / in a working directory
3) rsyncs the new data from the sub-master
4) kicks off a script to update a hardware keyed (mac address is good
for this) set of settings (hostname, etc)
5) reboots into the new system.
For extra credit... sync /home back to the sub-master to prevent
overfeeding the beast.
--
Poison [BLX]
Joshua M. Murphy
Re: [gentoo-user] Managing multiple systems with identical hardware
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
On 13/12/13 11:16, Poison BL. wrote:
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 6:54 PM, Grant emailgr...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm about to embark on this (perilous?) journey and I'm wondering if
anyone would make a comment on any of the questions in the last paragraph
below. This is basically my plan for setting up a bunch of systems
(laptops) in an office which are hardware-identical to my own laptop and
creating a framework to manage them all with a bare minimum of time and
effort.
Thanks, Grant
I see what you desire now - essentially you want to clone
your laptop (or big chunks of it) over to your other
workstations.
I've been working on this and I think I have a good and simple plan.
My laptop roams around with me and is the master system. The office
router is the submaster system. All of the other office systems are
minion systems. All of the systems are 100% hardware-identical
laptops. All of the minions are 100% software-identical.
I install every package that any system needs on the master and create
an SSH keypair. The only config files that change from their state on
the master are: /etc/conf.d/hostname, /etc/conf.d/net,
/etc/ssh/sshd_config, /etc/shorewall/*. I write comments in those
files which serve as flags for scripted changes.
I write a script that is run from the master to the submaster, or from
the submaster to a minion. If it's the former, rsync / is run with
exceptions (/usr/portage, /usr/local/portage, /var/log, /tmp, /home,
/root but /root/.ssh/id_rsa_script* is included), my personal user is
removed, a series of workstation users are created with useradd -m,
services are added or removed from /etc/runlevels/default, and config
files are changed according to comment flags. If it's the latter,
rsync / is run without exceptions, services are added or removed from
/etc/runlevels/default, and config files are changed according to
comment flags.
All user info on the submaster and minions would be effectively reset
whenever the script is run and that's fine. Root logins would have to
be allowed on the submaster and minions but only with the SSH key.
There are probably more paths to exclude when rsyncing master to
submaster.
That's it. No matter how numerous the minions become, this should
allow me to keep everything running by administrating only my own
system, pushing that to the submaster, and having the submaster push to
the minions. I've been going over the nitty-gritty and everything
looks good.
What do you think? Is there anything inherently wrong with rsyncing /
onto a running system? If there are little or no changes to make,
about how much data would actually be transferred? Is there a better
tool for this than rsync? I know Funtoo uses git for syncing with
their portage tree.
- Grant
Only thing that comes immediately to mind in rsyncing an overwrite of / is
that any process that's running that goes looking for libraries or other
data after the rsync pulls the rug out from beneath it might behave
erratically, crash, kick a puppy, write arbitrary data all over your drive.
Also, it's somewhat important to be careful about the various
not-really-there mounts, /dev, /sys, /proc... /run's probably touchy too,
and /var has a few pieces that might be in use mid-sync and choke something
along the way. My idea on that would be... build an initramfs that:
1) boots to a script a) warns the user that it's hungry and that feeding it
will be dangerous to any non-backed-up data, with prompt b) warns the user
again, with prompt ('cause watching an rsync roll by that eats that
document you just spent 3 weeks on isn't fun) 2) mounts / in a working
directory 3) rsyncs the new data from the sub-master 4) kicks off a script
to update a hardware keyed (mac address is good for this) set of settings
(hostname, etc) 5) reboots into the new system.
For extra credit... sync /home back to the sub-master to prevent
overfeeding the beast.
I'm also somewhat skeptical of rsyncing binaries and libraries on a running
system - it seems needlessly dangerous, particularly for things that have
complex deps.
A mixed alternative to this would be:
use rsync to manage distributing the system-wide configuration files for all
relevant packages (similar to what you're doing at the moment). This could
include just the /etc directory (and/or other system-wide config directories)
leaving the user files untouched
instead of trying to rsync any binaries or libraries, use the master to build
a binary package (--buildpkg) of whatever software is to be installed, with
the package directory shared over NFS or similar. Then, on the slaves, set
emerge default opts to --usepkg or --usepkgonly with a cron job, leaving
the actual updating of applications on the slave systems to portage.
- --
wraeth
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
Re: [gentoo-user] recent trouble with wicd and systemd (non-global ctrl_ifname)
On Thu, Dec 12 2013, wra...@privatdemail.net wrote: On 13/12/13 09:47, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 4:52 PM, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: At home I use a wired connection so did notice the following problem until I traveled and tried to connect wirelessly. The problem must have started sometime within the past month. If I have wicd started by systemd, i.e. systemctl enable wicd The wired network is started fine but not the wireless. Instead, I see in the systemd journal wicd[290]: Failed to connect to non-global ctrl_ifname: wired error: No such file or directory wicd[290]: Failed to connect to non-global ctrl_ifname: wireless error: No such file or directory If I instead systemctl disable wicd, reboot, and then manually type wpa_supplicant -i wireless -c /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf -B it works. Indeed after I have booted I can start wicd and cannot get the error above, but the actual behavior is not consistent. My system is ~amd64, profile gnome/systemd My wireless driver is from the package broadcom-sta (wl) I have never used wicd, so I can't say exactly what it's the problem; but I was under the impression that wicd is basically dead. Its last release was more than a year and a half ago. Regards. I don't use wicd (or systemd) either, but you could have a look at what the systemd unit is attempting to run (assuming it isn't one of it's special type of units). Systemd units are just plain-text files. Default unit location is /usr/lib/systemd/system (or you could try locate wicd.service and the parameter you're looking for is ExecStart. thanks but I had done that and the command is simply /usr/sbin/wicd --no-daemon Perhaps relevant is Type=dbus Canek points out that wicd has had no new releases. Perhaps I should switch to networkmanager. I will try that tomorrow. Thank you both, allan
[gentoo-user] [~amd64] Recent spurious error messages from systemd?
For example, during bootup, systemd said that swap.target failed, but in fact swap was working normally when I logged in, and systemctl status swap.target showed no error messages. systemd also warned that lvm.service failed, but in fact the lvm drive was mounted and working as expected after I logged in. Anyone else seeing strange error messages from systemd during boot?
Re: [gentoo-user] Managing multiple systems with identical hardware
I'm about to embark on this (perilous?) journey and I'm wondering if
anyone would make a comment on any of the questions in the last
paragraph below. This is basically my plan for setting up a bunch of
systems (laptops) in an office which are hardware-identical to my own
laptop and creating a framework to manage them all with a bare minimum
of time and effort.
Thanks,
Grant
I see what you desire now - essentially you want to clone your laptop
(or big chunks of it) over to your other workstations.
I've been working on this and I think I have a good and simple plan.
My laptop roams around with me and is the master system. The office
router is the submaster system. All of the other office systems are
minion systems. All of the systems are 100% hardware-identical
laptops. All of the minions are 100% software-identical.
I install every package that any system needs on the master and create
an SSH keypair. The only config files that change from their state on
the master are: /etc/conf.d/hostname, /etc/conf.d/net,
/etc/ssh/sshd_config, /etc/shorewall/*. I write comments in those
files which serve as flags for scripted changes.
I write a script that is run from the master to the submaster, or from
the submaster to a minion. If it's the former, rsync / is run with
exceptions (/usr/portage, /usr/local/portage, /var/log, /tmp, /home,
/root but /root/.ssh/id_rsa_script* is included), my personal user is
removed, a series of workstation users are created with useradd -m,
services are added or removed from /etc/runlevels/default, and config
files are changed according to comment flags. If it's the latter,
rsync / is run without exceptions, services are added or removed from
/etc/runlevels/default, and config files are changed according to
comment flags.
All user info on the submaster and minions would be effectively reset
whenever the script is run and that's fine. Root logins would have to
be allowed on the submaster and minions but only with the SSH key.
There are probably more paths to exclude when rsyncing master to
submaster.
That's it. No matter how numerous the minions become, this should
allow me to keep everything running by administrating only my own
system, pushing that to the submaster, and having the submaster push
to the minions. I've been going over the nitty-gritty and everything
looks good.
What do you think? Is there anything inherently wrong with rsyncing /
onto a running system? If there are little or no changes to make,
about how much data would actually be transferred? Is there a better
tool for this than rsync? I know Funtoo uses git for syncing with
their portage tree.
- Grant
Only thing that comes immediately to mind in rsyncing an overwrite of
/ is that any process that's running that goes looking for libraries
or other data after the rsync pulls the rug out from beneath it might
behave erratically, crash, kick a puppy, write arbitrary data all over
your drive. Also, it's somewhat important to be careful about the
various not-really-there mounts, /dev, /sys, /proc... /run's probably
touchy too, and /var has a few pieces that might be in use mid-sync
and choke something along the way. My idea on that would be... build
an initramfs that:
What if the push is done while no one is logged in to the system(s)
being updated? I could also exclude /dev, /sys, /proc, and /run and
reboot after the update. If that's not good enough, what if I boot
the systems being updated into read-only mode before updating them?
I'm hoping to keep the process as simple as possible.
- Grant
1) boots to a script
a) warns the user that it's hungry and that feeding it will be
dangerous to any non-backed-up data, with prompt
b) warns the user again, with prompt ('cause watching an rsync roll
by that eats that document you just spent 3 weeks on isn't fun)
2) mounts / in a working directory
3) rsyncs the new data from the sub-master
4) kicks off a script to update a hardware keyed (mac address is good
for this) set of settings (hostname, etc)
5) reboots into the new system.
For extra credit... sync /home back to the sub-master to prevent
overfeeding the beast.
--
Poison [BLX]
Joshua M. Murphy
Re: [gentoo-user] Managing multiple systems with identical hardware
I'm about to embark on this (perilous?) journey and I'm wondering if anyone would make a comment on any of the questions in the last paragraph below. This is basically my plan for setting up a bunch of systems (laptops) in an office which are hardware-identical to my own laptop and creating a framework to manage them all with a bare minimum of time and effort. Thanks, Grant I see what you desire now - essentially you want to clone your laptop (or big chunks of it) over to your other workstations. I've been working on this and I think I have a good and simple plan. My laptop roams around with me and is the master system. The office router is the submaster system. All of the other office systems are minion systems. All of the systems are 100% hardware-identical laptops. All of the minions are 100% software-identical. I install every package that any system needs on the master and create an SSH keypair. The only config files that change from their state on the master are: /etc/conf.d/hostname, /etc/conf.d/net, /etc/ssh/sshd_config, /etc/shorewall/*. I write comments in those files which serve as flags for scripted changes. I write a script that is run from the master to the submaster, or from the submaster to a minion. If it's the former, rsync / is run with exceptions (/usr/portage, /usr/local/portage, /var/log, /tmp, /home, /root but /root/.ssh/id_rsa_script* is included), my personal user is removed, a series of workstation users are created with useradd -m, services are added or removed from /etc/runlevels/default, and config files are changed according to comment flags. If it's the latter, rsync / is run without exceptions, services are added or removed from /etc/runlevels/default, and config files are changed according to comment flags. All user info on the submaster and minions would be effectively reset whenever the script is run and that's fine. Root logins would have to be allowed on the submaster and minions but only with the SSH key. There are probably more paths to exclude when rsyncing master to submaster. That's it. No matter how numerous the minions become, this should allow me to keep everything running by administrating only my own system, pushing that to the submaster, and having the submaster push to the minions. I've been going over the nitty-gritty and everything looks good. What do you think? Is there anything inherently wrong with rsyncing / onto a running system? If there are little or no changes to make, about how much data would actually be transferred? Is there a better tool for this than rsync? I know Funtoo uses git for syncing with their portage tree. - Grant I'm also somewhat skeptical of rsyncing binaries and libraries on a running system - it seems needlessly dangerous, particularly for things that have complex deps. A mixed alternative to this would be: use rsync to manage distributing the system-wide configuration files for all relevant packages (similar to what you're doing at the moment). This could include just the /etc directory (and/or other system-wide config directories) leaving the user files untouched instead of trying to rsync any binaries or libraries, use the master to build a binary package (--buildpkg) of whatever software is to be installed, with the package directory shared over NFS or similar. Then, on the slaves, set emerge default opts to --usepkg or --usepkgonly with a cron job, leaving the actual updating of applications on the slave systems to portage. I may end up using portage instead of rsync but I think I'd like to try rsync first. Am I setting myself up for failure? - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] [~amd64] Recent spurious error messages from systemd?
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 7:23 PM, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: For example, during bootup, systemd said that swap.target failed, but in fact swap was working normally when I logged in, and systemctl status swap.target showed no error messages. systemd also warned that lvm.service failed, but in fact the lvm drive was mounted and working as expected after I logged in. Anyone else seeing strange error messages from systemd during boot? Did you rebuild your initramfs? Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Something is pulling in gnome-base
On Thursday 12 Dec 2013 10:01:20 Peter Humphrey wrote: On Wednesday 11 Dec 2013 21:04:00 Mick wrote: Let me get this right, if I set 'kde-base/kdeutils-meta -cups' I will still be able to print from kde applications? Here, the K menu item Manage Printing opens a CUPS web page, specifically localhost:631. It's a bog-standard CUPS interface, with no need of KDE complications. There's no printer entry in system settings. I often print a spreadsheet from LibreOffice without problems. So yes, other things being equal, you will. In any case, why not try it and see? You can revert easily enough if you hit a problem. Thank you Alan and Peter for your advice, I rebuilt kde-utils meta with USE=-cups to find out that umpteen packages want to be depcleaned: == These are the packages that would be unmerged: kde-base/print-manager selected: 4.11.2 protected: none omitted: none kde-base/kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer selected: 4.10.5 protected: none omitted: none app-admin/system-config-printer-gnome selected: 1.4.3 protected: none omitted: none x11-libs/gtk+ selected: 3.8.7 protected: none omitted: 2.24.22 app-text/xmlto selected: 0.0.24-r1 protected: none omitted: none app-admin/system-config-printer-common selected: 1.4.3 protected: none omitted: none dev-python/pycurl selected: 7.19.0-r3 protected: none omitted: none app-accessibility/at-spi2-atk selected: 2.8.1 protected: none omitted: none dev-python/pycups selected: 1.9.63 protected: none omitted: none dev-python/pygobject selected: 3.8.3 protected: none omitted: 2.28.6-r55 gnome-base/gnome-common selected: 3.7.4 protected: none omitted: none app-accessibility/at-spi2-core selected: 2.8.0 protected: none omitted: none All selected packages: app-text/xmlto-0.0.24-r1 app-admin/system-config- printer-gnome-1.4.3 dev-python/pycurl-7.19.0-r3 gnome-base/gnome-common-3.7.4 kde-base/print-manager-4.11.2 app-accessibility/at-spi2-atk-2.8.1 dev- python/pygobject-3.8.3 app-admin/system-config-printer-common-1.4.3 dev- python/pycups-1.9.63 app-accessibility/at-spi2-core-2.8.0 x11-libs/gtk+-3.8.7 kde-base/kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer-4.10.5 'Selected' packages are slated for removal. 'Protected' and 'omitted' packages will not be removed. Would you like to unmerge these packages? [Yes/No] == I may leave this until I have more time to look into it. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Something is pulling in gnome-base
On 13/12/2013 09:04, Mick wrote: On Thursday 12 Dec 2013 10:01:20 Peter Humphrey wrote: On Wednesday 11 Dec 2013 21:04:00 Mick wrote: Let me get this right, if I set 'kde-base/kdeutils-meta -cups' I will still be able to print from kde applications? Here, the K menu item Manage Printing opens a CUPS web page, specifically localhost:631. It's a bog-standard CUPS interface, with no need of KDE complications. There's no printer entry in system settings. I often print a spreadsheet from LibreOffice without problems. So yes, other things being equal, you will. In any case, why not try it and see? You can revert easily enough if you hit a problem. Thank you Alan and Peter for your advice, I rebuilt kde-utils meta with USE=-cups to find out that umpteen packages want to be depcleaned: == These are the packages that would be unmerged: kde-base/print-manager selected: 4.11.2 protected: none omitted: none kde-base/kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer selected: 4.10.5 protected: none omitted: none app-admin/system-config-printer-gnome selected: 1.4.3 protected: none omitted: none x11-libs/gtk+ selected: 3.8.7 protected: none omitted: 2.24.22 app-text/xmlto selected: 0.0.24-r1 protected: none omitted: none app-admin/system-config-printer-common selected: 1.4.3 protected: none omitted: none dev-python/pycurl selected: 7.19.0-r3 protected: none omitted: none app-accessibility/at-spi2-atk selected: 2.8.1 protected: none omitted: none dev-python/pycups selected: 1.9.63 protected: none omitted: none dev-python/pygobject selected: 3.8.3 protected: none omitted: 2.28.6-r55 gnome-base/gnome-common selected: 3.7.4 protected: none omitted: none app-accessibility/at-spi2-core selected: 2.8.0 protected: none omitted: none All selected packages: app-text/xmlto-0.0.24-r1 app-admin/system-config- printer-gnome-1.4.3 dev-python/pycurl-7.19.0-r3 gnome-base/gnome-common-3.7.4 kde-base/print-manager-4.11.2 app-accessibility/at-spi2-atk-2.8.1 dev- python/pygobject-3.8.3 app-admin/system-config-printer-common-1.4.3 dev- python/pycups-1.9.63 app-accessibility/at-spi2-core-2.8.0 x11-libs/gtk+-3.8.7 kde-base/kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer-4.10.5 'Selected' packages are slated for removal. 'Protected' and 'omitted' packages will not be removed. Would you like to unmerge these packages? [Yes/No] == I may leave this until I have more time to look into it. I wouldn't worry about that, it all looks legit to me. KDE's print manager uses the gnome print infrastructure nd seems to hook into cups' web interface. All those packages are related to that in some way, and most importantly you have no other packages that use them. Only two seem worth looking deeper into: kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer: you only need this if you use KDE's desktop search with strigi and nepomuk. It's a plugin to search picture files gtk+: do you use gtk apps at all? If not, this is safe to remove. You won't have wholesale breakage if you remove it and it actually is needed, it can be merged back in quickly. Everything else is helper libs and utility functions which come and go depending on your deps anyway -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Managing multiple systems with identical hardware
On 13/12/2013 01:54, Grant wrote: I'm about to embark on this (perilous?) journey and I'm wondering if anyone would make a comment on any of the questions in the last paragraph below. This is basically my plan for setting up a bunch of systems (laptops) in an office which are hardware-identical to my own laptop and creating a framework to manage them all with a bare minimum of time and effort. There's nothing inherently wrong with rsyncing onto a running system, that's what portage (and every make install in the world :-) ) does anyway. Maybe the scale of what you want to do is bigger This is Unix, and is knows how to deal with replaced files properly (unlike our friends over in Redmond) You will find app-admin/checkrestart very useful to run on the laptops if you don't already have it. Essentially, it looks for all files that are in use and have been deleted then tells you which process are involved so you can restart them. The only other issue that comes to mind is connectivity, do beware of network connections going away while you're in the middle of updates. Proper sensible error handling code in your scripts should take care of this Thanks, Grant I see what you desire now - essentially you want to clone your laptop (or big chunks of it) over to your other workstations. I've been working on this and I think I have a good and simple plan. My laptop roams around with me and is the master system. The office router is the submaster system. All of the other office systems are minion systems. All of the systems are 100% hardware-identical laptops. All of the minions are 100% software-identical. I install every package that any system needs on the master and create an SSH keypair. The only config files that change from their state on the master are: /etc/conf.d/hostname, /etc/conf.d/net, /etc/ssh/sshd_config, /etc/shorewall/*. I write comments in those files which serve as flags for scripted changes. I write a script that is run from the master to the submaster, or from the submaster to a minion. If it's the former, rsync / is run with exceptions (/usr/portage, /usr/local/portage, /var/log, /tmp, /home, /root but /root/.ssh/id_rsa_script* is included), my personal user is removed, a series of workstation users are created with useradd -m, services are added or removed from /etc/runlevels/default, and config files are changed according to comment flags. If it's the latter, rsync / is run without exceptions, services are added or removed from /etc/runlevels/default, and config files are changed according to comment flags. All user info on the submaster and minions would be effectively reset whenever the script is run and that's fine. Root logins would have to be allowed on the submaster and minions but only with the SSH key. There are probably more paths to exclude when rsyncing master to submaster. That's it. No matter how numerous the minions become, this should allow me to keep everything running by administrating only my own system, pushing that to the submaster, and having the submaster push to the minions. I've been going over the nitty-gritty and everything looks good. What do you think? Is there anything inherently wrong with rsyncing / onto a running system? If there are little or no changes to make, about how much data would actually be transferred? Is there a better tool for this than rsync? I know Funtoo uses git for syncing with their portage tree. - Grant -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Managing multiple systems with identical hardware
On 13/12/2013 03:49, Grant wrote:
I'm about to embark on this (perilous?) journey and I'm wondering if
anyone would make a comment on any of the questions in the last
paragraph below. This is basically my plan for setting up a bunch of
systems (laptops) in an office which are hardware-identical to my own
laptop and creating a framework to manage them all with a bare minimum
of time and effort.
Thanks,
Grant
I see what you desire now - essentially you want to clone your laptop
(or big chunks of it) over to your other workstations.
I've been working on this and I think I have a good and simple plan.
My laptop roams around with me and is the master system. The office
router is the submaster system. All of the other office systems are
minion systems. All of the systems are 100% hardware-identical
laptops. All of the minions are 100% software-identical.
I install every package that any system needs on the master and create
an SSH keypair. The only config files that change from their state on
the master are: /etc/conf.d/hostname, /etc/conf.d/net,
/etc/ssh/sshd_config, /etc/shorewall/*. I write comments in those
files which serve as flags for scripted changes.
I write a script that is run from the master to the submaster, or from
the submaster to a minion. If it's the former, rsync / is run with
exceptions (/usr/portage, /usr/local/portage, /var/log, /tmp, /home,
/root but /root/.ssh/id_rsa_script* is included), my personal user is
removed, a series of workstation users are created with useradd -m,
services are added or removed from /etc/runlevels/default, and config
files are changed according to comment flags. If it's the latter,
rsync / is run without exceptions, services are added or removed from
/etc/runlevels/default, and config files are changed according to
comment flags.
All user info on the submaster and minions would be effectively reset
whenever the script is run and that's fine. Root logins would have to
be allowed on the submaster and minions but only with the SSH key.
There are probably more paths to exclude when rsyncing master to
submaster.
That's it. No matter how numerous the minions become, this should
allow me to keep everything running by administrating only my own
system, pushing that to the submaster, and having the submaster push
to the minions. I've been going over the nitty-gritty and everything
looks good.
What do you think? Is there anything inherently wrong with rsyncing /
onto a running system? If there are little or no changes to make,
about how much data would actually be transferred? Is there a better
tool for this than rsync? I know Funtoo uses git for syncing with
their portage tree.
- Grant
Only thing that comes immediately to mind in rsyncing an overwrite of
/ is that any process that's running that goes looking for libraries
or other data after the rsync pulls the rug out from beneath it might
behave erratically, crash, kick a puppy, write arbitrary data all over
your drive. Also, it's somewhat important to be careful about the
various not-really-there mounts, /dev, /sys, /proc... /run's probably
touchy too, and /var has a few pieces that might be in use mid-sync
and choke something along the way. My idea on that would be... build
an initramfs that:
What if the push is done while no one is logged in to the system(s)
being updated? I could also exclude /dev, /sys, /proc, and /run and
reboot after the update. If that's not good enough, what if I boot
the systems being updated into read-only mode before updating them?
I'm hoping to keep the process as simple as possible.
Consider what happens when you run emerge apache on a system running
apache. The universe doesn't explode and all kittens in the world don't
spontaneously die :-)
How is your scheme essentially any different? Presumably you have
already excluded virtual mounts using the appropriate magic switches.
Things like dbus might get upset by being updated, but you have to deal
with that on a portage machine anyway and one usually logs out and in to
fix that, or reboot if the system bus is affected.
You probably want to reboot each laptop after a full update
- Grant
1) boots to a script
a) warns the user that it's hungry and that feeding it will be
dangerous to any non-backed-up data, with prompt
b) warns the user again, with prompt ('cause watching an rsync roll
by that eats that document you just spent 3 weeks on isn't fun)
2) mounts / in a working directory
3) rsyncs the new data from the sub-master
4) kicks off a script to update a hardware keyed (mac address is good
for this) set of settings (hostname, etc)
5) reboots into the new system.
For extra credit... sync /home back to the sub-master to prevent
overfeeding the beast.
--
Poison [BLX]
Joshua M. Murphy
--
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com
