Re: [gentoo-user] CD ripper that generates song titles?
On 08/26/2015 01:06 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: I went to the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) yesterday and indulged in a buying spree of 18 CD sets of my fave music (basically anything pop/rock/country pre-Beatles). I now have over 20 CDs that I want to rip to flac eventually. I dread the gruntwork in renaming tracks like track01.cdda.wav, etc. What Gentoo ebuilds are there for stuff that'll get ahold of track titles? Is it in the form of metadata on the CD? I don't believe there's metadata on the CD outside of cd-text, which is very limited. I've messed around quite a bit with ripping on linux (although not in the last 1-2 years) and eventually just gave up and ran EAC under wine. EAC uses the album information on the CD to look up track lists on the internet. Ripping and tagging are done in one step this way. Outside of that, you can use something like EasyTAG to tag the tracks after they are ripped. You can also use it to search databases on the internet to get tags. However, with really new or obscure albums they may not exist - you might have to tag them manually anyway. Dan
[gentoo-user] Re: Grub1: Cant ? Re: keeping grub 1
Alec Ten Harmsel alec at alectenharmsel.com writes: So some vintage installs/upgrades got me thinking. What does Grub-2 offer that grub-1 does not. I cannot think of anything that I need from Grub-2 not mbr, nor efi board booting. Not dual/multi booting as grub-1 excels on that, and not on drives larger than 2 T. So what is the (hardware scenario) where grub-2 and it's problems are superior to grub-1? I'm having trouble thinking of that situation...? 64-bit hardware with the no-multilib profile[1]. I have no -bin packages on my system, nor do I run any pre-built 3rd party applications, so I waste no time compiling worthless 32-bit libraries. Therefore, I need grub 2. Ok this is interesting. Is this only an AMD64 thing? On Arm64 you'd most likely want to run 32 bit binaries. This is profile [11} right? default/linux/amd64/13.0/no-multilib I'm OK with this, but what is the benefit of such profile selection:: curiously I have no experience with the profile selection, despite running quite a few amd64 system. What would the benefits be running this profile on older amd64 hardware ? AMD64 Team; amd64 at gentoo.org grub-1 is not available on no-multilib profiles; I had not seen this, but so I guess this is well documented..? Does that profile selection prevent one from selecting grub-1 during and installation? OFF TOPIC On another note: have you seen spark-1.5 ? Cleaner build? http://apache-spark-developers-list.1001551.n3.nabble.com/Fwd-ANNOUNCE-Spark-1-5-0-preview-package-td13683.html .. James
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo on a Lenovo X1 Carbon (3rd gen)
Well, I don't know if all of those modules are really necessary, I just activated them as Arch used to load them. But you are right, it' probably the ACPI_WMI one. No, of course I don't use the TPM stuff. Maybe I'll try to successively deactivate unneeded modules and see at which point it fails. But I don't have enough time for playing atm - it works :-) And then when it's sure I'll write it down on some wiki. Ralf On 08/26/2015 01:22 PM, Jeremi Piotrowski wrote: On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Ralf ralf+gen...@ramses-pyramidenbau.de wrote: To answer my own question: After a lot of diffing and searching, I was able to find out, that these were the modules that I was missing: CONFIG_TCG_TPM=y CONFIG_TCG_TIS=y Are you actually using the TPM? This shouldn't have any any effect on resume but I don't know enough about crypto (you said you use it) to be certain that there isn't any crosstalk. CONFIG_HID_LENOVO=y This one is not necessary as it only affects _external_ lenovo USB keyboards. CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI=y CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT=y CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_VIDEO=y CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_HOTKEY_POLL=y I had assumed you had these active as they are pretty much mandatory for thinkpads. CONFIG_ACPI_WMI=y This one is tricky. It has acpi in the name so it _could_ be the one that really made the difference, but I thought it was an extra device. In any case, it's great that you got to the bottom of this. Have you thought of starting a wiki page for the X1 carbon?
[gentoo-user] CD ripper that generates song titles?
I went to the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) yesterday and indulged in a buying spree of 18 CD sets of my fave music (basically anything pop/rock/country pre-Beatles). I now have over 20 CDs that I want to rip to flac eventually. I dread the gruntwork in renaming tracks like track01.cdda.wav, etc. What Gentoo ebuilds are there for stuff that'll get ahold of track titles? Is it in the form of metadata on the CD? -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub1: Cant ? Re: keeping grub 1
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote: The main benefit is reduced compile times for some packages since I only compile the 64-bit versions, less stuff on the filesystem, etc. If you do not run any applications that use a 32-bit version of a library, that library is taking up disk space and compile time, but is never used. The multilib profiles do not enable ABI_X86=32 by default so the default setup is to only build the 64-bit versions of everything. These profiles give you the _option_ to build both 32-bit and 64-bit things. The only things multilib by default on a multlib profile are pretty much glibc and gcc. I also am a bit of a purist, and just run no-multilib because it is emotionally satisfying. The above reasons would make emotional satisfaction and purity the only reasons to go down this road. Doesn't mean they're not valid :)
[gentoo-user] Re: Grub1: Cant ? Re: keeping grub 1
On 2015-08-26, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Alec Ten Harmsel alec at alectenharmsel.com writes: So some vintage installs/upgrades got me thinking. What does Grub-2 offer that grub-1 does not. I cannot think of anything that I need from Grub-2 not mbr, nor efi board booting. Not dual/multi booting as grub-1 excels on that, and not on drives larger than 2 T. So what is the (hardware scenario) where grub-2 and it's problems are superior to grub-1? I'm having trouble thinking of that situation...? 64-bit hardware with the no-multilib profile[1]. I have no -bin packages on my system, nor do I run any pre-built 3rd party applications, so I waste no time compiling worthless 32-bit libraries. Therefore, I need grub 2. Ok this is interesting. Is this only an AMD64 thing? Yep. In theory the same thing could come up with respect to 64/32 bit SPARC or something, but in practice it's ARM64 On Arm64 you'd most likely want to run 32 bit binaries. Some people do. Some people don't I'm OK with this, but what is the benefit of such profile selection:: curiously I have no experience with the profile selection, despite running quite a few amd64 system. What would the benefits be running this profile on older amd64 hardware ? The main benefit of ARM64 w/o 32-bit libs is that you can't run acroread. ;) If only evince could print current view, I could ditch acroread... -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! What I need is a at MATURE RELATIONSHIP with a gmail.comFLOPPY DISK ...
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub1: Cant ? Re: keeping grub 1
On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 3:10:55 PM James wrote: James wireless at tampabay.rr.com writes: So on one particular (openrc) system, I have no interest in grub-2 or any other bootloaders. I see grub is both grub 1 and grub 2. So some vintage installs/upgrades got me thinking. What does Grub-2 offer that grub-1 does not. I cannot think of anything that I need from Grub-2 not mbr, nor efi board booting. Not dual/multi booting as grub-1 excels on that, and not on drives larger than 2 T. So what is the (hardware scenario) where grub-2 and it's problems are superior to grub-1? I'm having trouble thinking of that situation...? James This may not be complete and some of these may be possible to some extent with legacy grub: 1. Grub Legacy is 32-bit only, so you need 32-bit libraries or use grub- static. Grub2 is portable, even beyond Intel architectures. 2. Grub2 has been rewritten to be modular. Instead of Grub's stages model it uses a core image and a bunch of modules. 3. EFI support without chainloading or other hacks. 4. Better filesystem support. Including loopback devices. 5. Graphics and theming support. 6. Grub2's config file (the one it tells you not to edit manually) is scriptable using a shell-like script language. 7. Password support for each entry. -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub1: Cant ? Re: keeping grub 1
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 03:48:12PM +, James wrote: Alec Ten Harmsel alec at alectenharmsel.com writes: 64-bit hardware with the no-multilib profile[1]. I have no -bin packages on my system, nor do I run any pre-built 3rd party applications, so I waste no time compiling worthless 32-bit libraries. Therefore, I need grub 2. Ok this is interesting. Is this only an AMD64 thing? On Arm64 you'd most likely want to run 32 bit binaries. I don't know anything about arm64, but if it is 64-bit, why would you need 32-bit binaries? This is profile [11} right? default/linux/amd64/13.0/no-multilib Yes. I'm OK with this, but what is the benefit of such profile selection:: curiously I have no experience with the profile selection, despite running quite a few amd64 system. What would the benefits be running this profile on older amd64 hardware ? The main benefit is reduced compile times for some packages since I only compile the 64-bit versions, less stuff on the filesystem, etc. If you do not run any applications that use a 32-bit version of a library, that library is taking up disk space and compile time, but is never used. I also am a bit of a purist, and just run no-multilib because it is emotionally satisfying. AMD64 Team; amd64 at gentoo.org grub-1 is not available on no-multilib profiles; I had not seen this, but so I guess this is well documented..? Does that profile selection prevent one from selecting grub-1 during and installation? Yes, although just now was the first time I ever tried installing grub-1. OFF TOPIC On another note: have you seen spark-1.5 ? Cleaner build? http://apache-spark-developers-list.1001551.n3.nabble.com/Fwd-ANNOUNCE-Spark-1-5-0-preview-package-td13683.html .. I haven't looked at the new features of 1.5 specifically, but I know that the build process is basically the same. The API is nice, but it is definitely possible to write a faster job using Hadoop's API since it is lower-level and can be optimized more, so I spend more time writing jobs using Hadoop's API. Alec
[gentoo-user] Re: Grub1: Cant ? Re: keeping grub 1
Alec Ten Harmsel alec at alectenharmsel.com writes: I don't know anything about arm64, but if it is 64-bit, why would you need 32-bit binaries? An enormous codebase that is not likely to get ported to 64 bit arm. Easy (embedded) product migration to arm64. also, arm64 supports big indian and little indian codes simultaneously. I also am a bit of a purist, and just run no-multilib because it is emotionally satisfying. Naw. Your teasing? (wink wink nudge nudge). OFF TOPIC On another note: have you seen spark-1.5 ? Cleaner build? http://apache-spark-developers-list.1001551.n3.nabble.com/Fwd-ANNOUNCE-Spark-1-5-0-preview-package-td13683.html I haven't looked at the new features of 1.5 specifically, but I know that the build process is basically the same. The API is nice, but it is definitely possible to write a faster job using Hadoop's API since it is lower-level and can be optimized more, so I spend more time writing jobs using Hadoop's API. I've read that building spark-1.5 from sources is much cleaner now. bgo-523412. (your on the cc list?). Particularly parsing out hadoop support, for more focus regression testing on bare metal setups Drop me a line when you install 1.5 at work and how it runs with Hadoop. hth, James
Re: [gentoo-user] CD ripper that generates song titles?
Am Wed, 26 Aug 2015 22:49:19 +0200 schrieb Heiko Baums li...@baums-on-web.de: Am 26.08.2015 um 22:06 schrieb Walter Dnes: I went to the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) yesterday and indulged in a buying spree of 18 CD sets of my fave music (basically anything pop/rock/country pre-Beatles). I now have over 20 CDs that I want to rip to flac eventually. I dread the gruntwork in renaming tracks like track01.cdda.wav, etc. What Gentoo ebuilds are there for stuff that'll get ahold of track titles? Is it in the form of metadata on the CD? I use ripit for ripping my CDs. http://suwald.com/ripit/ It's unfortunately not in the portage tree, but there's an ebuild: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117383 The latest stable release is 3.9.0. [...] Oh my, I like the look of that! I might give ripit a try some time. -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup pgp6YxqWS1FUq.pgp Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP
Re: [gentoo-user] CD ripper that generates song titles?
I usually use rubyripper. Like others similar software, it uses cddb to get the titles. If the CD set is unknown to cddb, you can try to rename the files with Picard, which uses the musicbrainz database and can use the file's fingerprint to find a match. It's usually very accurate. -- Emanuele Rusconi
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo on a Lenovo X1 Carbon (3rd gen)
On Wednesday 26 Aug 2015 22:42:02 Ralf wrote: So I was able to figure it out... Don't ask me why, but it's the TPM module. Without enabling CONFIG_TCG_TPM=y CONFIG_TCG_TIS=y my X1 Carbon won't wake up from standby. Cheers Ralf It uses TPM to store the encryption key for the fs. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo on a Lenovo X1 Carbon (3rd gen)
Uhm - why should it do so? And why should it do so if the module is NOT available? In deed, I do have full disc encryption, but the key stays inside RAM if the machine goes to standby.Furthermore, I did not configure TPM (yet). Maybe the TPM Chip (if enabled by the bios) needs some Reinitialization (even if the TPM is not configured and used) after a wakeup and refuses wakind up if this reinitialization does not take place. For me, this would sound more reasonable why my machine only wakes up when TCG_TIS is enabled. Ralf On 08/27/2015 12:00 AM, Mick wrote: On Wednesday 26 Aug 2015 22:42:02 Ralf wrote: So I was able to figure it out... Don't ask me why, but it's the TPM module. Without enabling CONFIG_TCG_TPM=y CONFIG_TCG_TIS=y my X1 Carbon won't wake up from standby. Cheers Ralf It uses TPM to store the encryption key for the fs.
Re: [gentoo-user] CD ripper that generates song titles?
Am 26.08.2015 um 22:06 schrieb Walter Dnes: I went to the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) yesterday and indulged in a buying spree of 18 CD sets of my fave music (basically anything pop/rock/country pre-Beatles). I now have over 20 CDs that I want to rip to flac eventually. I dread the gruntwork in renaming tracks like track01.cdda.wav, etc. What Gentoo ebuilds are there for stuff that'll get ahold of track titles? Is it in the form of metadata on the CD? I use ripit for ripping my CDs. http://suwald.com/ripit/ It's unfortunately not in the portage tree, but there's an ebuild: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117383 The latest stable release is 3.9.0. Or you could try abcde or grip which are in the portage tree. All of them have freedb support and use cdparanoia as back-end.
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub1: Cant ? Re: keeping grub 1
Le 2015-08-26 13:37, Fernando Rodriguez a écrit : This may not be complete and some of these may be possible to some extent with legacy grub: 1. Grub Legacy is 32-bit only, so you need 32-bit libraries or use grub- static. Grub2 is portable, even beyond Intel architectures. 2. Grub2 has been rewritten to be modular. Instead of Grub's stages model it uses a core image and a bunch of modules. 3. EFI support without chainloading or other hacks. 4. Better filesystem support. Including loopback devices. 5. Graphics and theming support. 6. Grub2's config file (the one it tells you not to edit manually) is scriptable using a shell-like script language. 7. Password support for each entry. I've had serious problems in the past getting to to install on a partition and gave up. Is that bug fixed? It insists on installing on the MBR which is unacceptable. Michel -- For Linux Software visit http://home.comcast.net/~mcatudal http://sourceforge.net/projects/suzielinux/
Re: [gentoo-user] CD ripper that generates song titles?
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 10:58:03PM +0200, Marc Joliet wrote Am Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:06:10 -0400 schrieb Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org: I went to the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) yesterday and indulged in a buying spree of 18 CD sets of my fave music (basically anything pop/rock/country pre-Beatles). I now have over 20 CDs that I want to rip to flac eventually. I dread the gruntwork in renaming tracks like track01.cdda.wav, etc. What Gentoo ebuilds are there for stuff that'll get ahold of track titles? Is it in the form of metadata on the CD? I use a combination of cdda2wav (from cdrtools) and split2flac. I wrap them together in a small shell script [0]. It's not perfect, namely titles generated by cdda2wav can be wrong when the title there are double quotes in them, but other than that it has worked very well for me. [0] https://github.com/marcecj/mjoliet-progs/blob/master/rips.sh Thanks. I've now switched from cdparanoia to cdda2wav, like so... cdda2wav -vall dev=1,0,0 cddb=0 -paranoia -B I get separate tracks and info files, e.g. audio_01.inf, audio_01.wav. audio_02.inf, audio_02.wav, etc. I can pull the tune and artist from the Tracktitle= entry in the corresponding .inf file, and write a bash script to cycle through the directory, and use flac's -o option to give the flac file the correct name. I have an issue with /etc/sudoers, but that's a totally different thread. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] CD ripper that generates song titles?
On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 4:06:10 PM Walter Dnes wrote: I went to the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) yesterday and indulged in a buying spree of 18 CD sets of my fave music (basically anything pop/rock/country pre-Beatles). I now have over 20 CDs that I want to rip to flac eventually. I dread the gruntwork in renaming tracks like track01.cdda.wav, etc. What Gentoo ebuilds are there for stuff that'll get ahold of track titles? Is it in the form of metadata on the CD? You can try k3b. It can use cd-text or freedb and encode to most formats. It is a kde application so it will pull a lot of deps if you don't use kde. -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo on a Lenovo X1 Carbon (3rd gen)
So I was able to figure it out... Don't ask me why, but it's the TPM module. Without enabling CONFIG_TCG_TPM=y CONFIG_TCG_TIS=y my X1 Carbon won't wake up from standby. Cheers Ralf On 08/26/2015 01:22 PM, Jeremi Piotrowski wrote: On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Ralf ralf+gen...@ramses-pyramidenbau.de wrote: To answer my own question: After a lot of diffing and searching, I was able to find out, that these were the modules that I was missing: CONFIG_TCG_TPM=y CONFIG_TCG_TIS=y Are you actually using the TPM? This shouldn't have any any effect on resume but I don't know enough about crypto (you said you use it) to be certain that there isn't any crosstalk. CONFIG_HID_LENOVO=y This one is not necessary as it only affects _external_ lenovo USB keyboards. CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI=y CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT=y CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_VIDEO=y CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_HOTKEY_POLL=y I had assumed you had these active as they are pretty much mandatory for thinkpads. CONFIG_ACPI_WMI=y This one is tricky. It has acpi in the name so it _could_ be the one that really made the difference, but I thought it was an extra device. In any case, it's great that you got to the bottom of this. Have you thought of starting a wiki page for the X1 carbon?
Re: [gentoo-user] CD ripper that generates song titles?
Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: I went to the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) yesterday and indulged in a buying spree of 18 CD sets of my fave music (basically anything pop/rock/country pre-Beatles). I now have over 20 CDs that I want to rip to flac eventually. I dread the gruntwork in renaming tracks like track01.cdda.wav, etc. What Gentoo ebuilds are there for stuff that'll get ahold of track titles? Is it in the form of metadata on the CD? There are for example mp3c, grip, ripperx and probably also some other programs that can do this job. There is no metadata for the songtitles on the CD but AFAIK every CD has an unique ID. The CD ripper programs are searching online for this ID in the so called cddb (CD DataBase) and if someone has insert the songtitles of the according CD to this database before, the ripped CD tracks are automatically renamed to the respective title. If nobody has added your CDs to the database, you can do this by yourself with the ripper software which can also transfer these information to the cddb. Sorry for my probably unintelligible sentences, but I'm not a native speaker. :-) -- Regards wabe
Re: [gentoo-user] CD ripper that generates song titles?
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:06:10 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: I went to the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) yesterday and indulged in a buying spree of 18 CD sets of my fave music (basically anything pop/rock/country pre-Beatles). I now have over 20 CDs that I want to rip to flac eventually. I dread the gruntwork in renaming tracks like track01.cdda.wav, etc. What Gentoo ebuilds are there for stuff that'll get ahold of track titles? I use abcde. One of its advantages is that it can rip to multiple formats at the same time, so I generate FLAC files for playing at home and Ogg Vorbis for use on my phone or in the car. -- Neil Bothwick Why do kamikaze pilots wear helmets? pgp1CxKf9UMnb.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] CD ripper that generates song titles?
Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: I went to the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) yesterday and indulged in a buying spree of 18 CD sets of my fave music (basically anything pop/rock/country pre-Beatles). I now have over 20 CDs that I want to rip to flac eventually. I dread the gruntwork in renaming tracks like track01.cdda.wav, etc. What Gentoo ebuilds are there for stuff that'll get ahold of track titles? Is it in the form of metadata on the CD? I use a package called mp3c, but I have nodified the configs to do flac instead, but its a decent program and uses the freedb database to look up titles. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici cov...@ccs.covici.com
[gentoo-user] Re: CD ripper that generates song titles?
On 2015-08-26, Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: I went to the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) yesterday and indulged in a buying spree of 18 CD sets of my fave music (basically anything pop/rock/country pre-Beatles). I now have over 20 CDs that I want to rip to flac eventually. I dread the gruntwork in renaming tracks like track01.cdda.wav, etc. What Gentoo ebuilds are there for stuff that'll get ahold of track titles? Any of the CD ripping utilities will do that. If you want point/click, maybe try grip. For command line there's abcde. There's also ripperx, KAudioCreator, Asunder, Audex, SoundJuicer, and probably at least a dozen more. There are ebuilds for pretty much all of them (some of them in overlays). The one I always used to use was an ncurses frontend to the usual stuff[1] written by somebody in Germany. I've forgetten the name of it and nothing Google finds looks familiar (haven't bought actual physical CD in yonks, and the machine on which I last ripped one is long since dead and gone). If I were going to rip a CD today, I'd probably go with abcde. Is it in the form of metadata on the CD? Sometimes, but rarely. [1] cdparanoia, mp3lame, cddb, ffmpeg, mencoder, id3tag etc. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! does your DRESSING at ROOM have enough ASPARAGUS? gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] CD ripper that generates song titles?
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 04:06:10PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: I went to the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) yesterday and indulged in a buying spree of 18 CD sets of my fave music (basically anything pop/rock/country pre-Beatles). I now have over 20 CDs that I want to rip to flac eventually. I dread the gruntwork in renaming tracks like track01.cdda.wav, etc. What Gentoo ebuilds are there for stuff that'll get ahold of track titles? Is it in the form of metadata on the CD? I personally like using morituri [1] for ripping my CDs. It's a little bit slower than some, but very accurate (I believe it compares several reads, just to make sure there were no errors). It's not available in the main portage tree, but it's in the dev-zero overlay as media-sound/morituri. It can rip to flac (with optional cue files) and works from the terminal, if you prefer that. Additionally, it can adjust for drive read offsets when writing files, and is one of the few Linux things I've found which check the rips against AccurateRip. What's particularly nice about it is that it uses what little metadata and such it can get from the CD to look it up in MusicBrainz and add in the title, artist, etc. It also uses this to name the files according to album, artist, song title, etc. The template it uses to name the files and directories is relatively configurable, as well. If you need more configurable tagging, cover art downloading, and such, then look into Picard [2], which is in the main portage tree as media-sound/picard. It uses MusicBrainz [3] to get a whole bunch of metadata, tags, cover art, and other stuff, and can rename files much more flexibly than morituri. This is especially nice in combination with morituri, since morituri saves the MusicBrainz ID into the metadata of the ripped files. Normally, Picard looks files up by either the available metadata, or by the acoustic fingerprint. Since the MusicBrainz ID is already there, it immediately knows which album it is (although it may have the wrong release if you want to be that precise). The only caveats with Picard that I know of are that it's GUI only, it can't embed full size cover art if the image is above some large resolution, and I think that submitting extra fingerprints requires you to register with AcoustID [4]. Also, it's not an actual ripper. It just works on the metadata and tags of flac, mp3, and maybe a few other types. I personally like to rip with morituri, then polish the tagging and get the cover art with Picard. [1] http://thomas.apestaart.org/morituri/trac/wiki [2] https://picard.musicbrainz.org/ [3] https://musicbrainz.org/ [4] https://acoustid.org/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using xfce4 with compositing turned off?
On Wednesday 26 Aug 2015 04:47:24 waben...@gmail.com wrote: walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: Then I generated an xorg.conf in the old way using 'Xorg -configure'. That file didn't work right either. Then I finally realized that the generated xorg.conf had, in the Section Device section, this line: Driver radeon This is the correct driver. But that's not what we want. To use the open-source ati driver I changed that line to read: Driver ati This is what I recall it used to be, but now it is radeon. And that's when everything finally started to work perfectly. That's strange. What kind of GPU do you have? With my R7 250E I must use radeon as driver in xorg.conf. IIRC I also used the same config for my old GPU (Radeon HD4550). I do not use a xorg.conf file with the Kaveri APU. It just works with the following: In /etc/portage/make.conf: VIDEO_CARDS=radeon radeonsi FIRMWARE_INSTALL_DIR=/lib/firmware In kernel (Linux 4.0.5-gentoo AMD A10-7850K Radeon R7, 12 Compute Cores 4C+8G) I have built: CONFIG_PREVENT_FIRMWARE_BUILD=y CONFIG_FIRMWARE_IN_KERNEL=y CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE=radeon/kaveri_ce.bin radeon/kaveri_me.bin radeon/kaveri_mec2.bin radeon/kaveri_mec.bin radeon/kaveri_pfp.bin radeon/kaveri_rlc.bin radeon/kaveri_sdma.bin radeon/BONAIRE_uvd.bin radeon/BONAIRE_vce.bin CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE_DIR=/lib/firmware/ CONFIG_FIRMWARE_MEMMAP=y CONFIG_DRM_RADEON=y Packages: x11-base/xorg-server Installed versions: 1.16.4(23:51:45 19/02/15)(glamor ipv6 nptl suid udev xorg -dmx -doc -kdrive -minimal -selinux -static-libs -systemd -tslib -unwind -wayland -xnest -xvfb) media-libs/mesa Installed versions: 10.3.7-r1(18:24:07 20/02/15)(bindist classic dri3 egl gallium gbm gles2 llvm nptl opencl r600-llvm-compiler udev vdpau -debug - gles1 -openmax -openvg -osmesa -pax_kernel -pic -selinux -wayland -xa -xvmc ABI_MIPS=-n32 -n64 -o32 ABI_PPC=-32 -64 ABI_S390=-32 -64 ABI_X86=64 -32 -x32 KERNEL=linux -FreeBSD VIDEO_CARDS=radeon radeonsi -freedreno -i915 - i965 -ilo -intel -nouveau -r100 -r200 -r300 -r600 -vmware) x11-drivers/xf86-video-ati Installed versions: 7.5.0(23:52:11 19/02/15)(glamor udev) sys-kernel/linux-firmware Installed versions: 20150206(08:18:46 28/03/15)(-savedconfig) When you install your kernel do not forget to run make firmware_install. I am not sure if I have omitted anything of importance. Please ask if you need additional information. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: !!!!
On Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:10:40 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: IMO, emerge should not be doing stuff like that for two reasons: 1) It's broken: the assumptions made about what colors are actually legible is wrong if you use terminals with white backgrounds. I have to turn off colors just to make the default output legible. That's why there is the option to choose appropriate colours in /etc/portage/color.map. -- Neil Bothwick C:\DOS\SYSTEM\OS2\UTILITIES\DOCS\HELP\WHERE\THE\F$#%\AM\I??? pgprs0_HS84og.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] runscript is deprecated; please use openrc-run instead
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 5:39 AM, hydra hydrapo...@gmail.com wrote: The init script must be changed to use openrc-run, your action will be to update dbus as usual. Or better, open a bug report so that the init script will be updated. A bit more background. These messages are really targeted more at package maintainers, but they're made user-visible because not all packages are well-maintained. Also, since openrc is no longer used by all Gentoo users there may be package maintainers that simply don't ever see the message. When you see a new message like this I'd suggest doing the following: 1. Give it a few days, just to let maintainers fix things on their own without being hassled. 2. Check to see if it is fixed in a more recent package version. If it is, most likely the maintainer just doesn't want to make everybody rebuild things and they plan for you to get the fix whenever the next version is deployed. 3. Check to see if a bug is already open for your package. If not, go ahead and create one. Anytime you check for an existing bug, look for recently-closed ones too. Usually these errors are put in place many months before anything is expected to break, and then before actually breaking anything there is a discussion on -dev, tracker bugs, and so on. So, don't panic, but it never hurts to log a bug if the issue isn't already resolved. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo on a Lenovo X1 Carbon (3rd gen)
To answer my own question: After a lot of diffing and searching, I was able to find out, that these were the modules that I was missing: CONFIG_TCG_TPM=y CONFIG_TCG_TIS=y CONFIG_HID_LENOVO=y CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI=y CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT=y CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_VIDEO=y CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_HOTKEY_POLL=y CONFIG_ACPI_WMI=y Without these modules, a X1 Carbon won't wake up from standby Cheers Ralf On 08/25/2015 02:56 PM, Ralf wrote: Hi folks, i just got my brand new Lenovo X1 Carbon and trying to get Gentoo running on it. Beside some really big issues (HiDPI display, 2048x1152 resolution on a 14 display really sucks on linux, xrandr scaling is horrible, no scaling is damn too small to read, missing touch support in most applications, ...) I have a big problem with my kernel: It doesn't come back from standby. After closing the lid, the standby LED starts breathing, opening the lid doesn't change anything, even pressing the power button does not wake up the system. The only option is to reset the system by holding down the power button. Journalctl doesn't say anything except of System reboot after the Standby message: ralf@omega:~$ sudo journalctl | grep -i lid closed -A 10 130 Aug 23 19:12:20 omega systemd-logind[2075]: Lid closed. Aug 23 19:12:20 omega systemd-logind[2075]: Suspending... Aug 23 19:12:20 omega systemd[1]: Reached target Sleep. Aug 23 19:12:20 omega systemd[1]: Starting Suspend... Aug 23 19:12:20 omega systemd-sleep[2175]: Suspending system... -- Reboot -- .. So I tried installing Arch linux (same kernel version, 4.1.6). Arch wakes up without any problems. As a try and quick fixI copied the Arch Kernel+Modules to my Gentoo system and it works fine, which means to me that I probably have a misconfigured kernel. But that's not the Gentoo way, I'd like to compile the kernel on my own. Does anyone know what I might be missing in my kernel config? Or does anyone also have a X1 Carbon 3rd generation and would like to share the .config with me? Anything helps! Cheers Ral
[gentoo-user] runscript is deprecated; please use openrc-run instead
I've noticed this during booting: * runscript is deprecated; please use openrc-run instead. * Starting D-BUS system messagebus ... * start-stop-daemon: fopen `/var/run/dbus.pid': No such file or directory * Detaching to start `/usr/bin/dbus-daemon' ... [ ok ] * runscript is deprecated; please use openrc-run instead. Is this a warning of things to come, or should I change my settings somewhere? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] runscript is deprecated; please use openrc-run instead
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: I've noticed this during booting: * runscript is deprecated; please use openrc-run instead. * Starting D-BUS system messagebus ... * start-stop-daemon: fopen `/var/run/dbus.pid': No such file or directory * Detaching to start `/usr/bin/dbus-daemon' ... [ ok ] * runscript is deprecated; please use openrc-run instead. Is this a warning of things to come, or should I change my settings somewhere? -- Regards, Mick The init script must be changed to use openrc-run, your action will be to update dbus as usual. Or better, open a bug report so that the init script will be updated.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: keeping grub 1
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 20:46:32 -0500, Dale wrote: emerge -n sys-boot/grub:0 and make sure no other grub entries appear in at world I added the generic grub2 to the package.mask sys-boot/grub:2 It's all good now. I'm ignoring grub-static. grub-0.97.r14 seems fine. thx (everyone), James To be sure, I'd take the lowest version and put a = in front. Based on what I get here, it should look like this in the mask file: =sys-boot/grub-2.00_p5107-r2 That way you don't have to worry about the new version that may come later, and if the old grub gets removed from the tree. you don't need to mask anything, just tell portage what you want rather than what you don't want. Tell it you want slot 0 and that's what you'll get. -- Neil Bothwick I think not, said Descartes, and promptly disappeared. pgpgIMox6SsU2.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo on a Lenovo X1 Carbon (3rd gen)
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Ralf ralf+gen...@ramses-pyramidenbau.de wrote: To answer my own question: After a lot of diffing and searching, I was able to find out, that these were the modules that I was missing: CONFIG_TCG_TPM=y CONFIG_TCG_TIS=y Are you actually using the TPM? This shouldn't have any any effect on resume but I don't know enough about crypto (you said you use it) to be certain that there isn't any crosstalk. CONFIG_HID_LENOVO=y This one is not necessary as it only affects _external_ lenovo USB keyboards. CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI=y CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT=y CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_VIDEO=y CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_HOTKEY_POLL=y I had assumed you had these active as they are pretty much mandatory for thinkpads. CONFIG_ACPI_WMI=y This one is tricky. It has acpi in the name so it _could_ be the one that really made the difference, but I thought it was an extra device. In any case, it's great that you got to the bottom of this. Have you thought of starting a wiki page for the X1 carbon?
[gentoo-user] Grub1: Cant ? Re: keeping grub 1
James wireless at tampabay.rr.com writes: So on one particular (openrc) system, I have no interest in grub-2 or any other bootloaders. I see grub is both grub 1 and grub 2. So some vintage installs/upgrades got me thinking. What does Grub-2 offer that grub-1 does not. I cannot think of anything that I need from Grub-2 not mbr, nor efi board booting. Not dual/multi booting as grub-1 excels on that, and not on drives larger than 2 T. So what is the (hardware scenario) where grub-2 and it's problems are superior to grub-1? I'm having trouble thinking of that situation...? James
Re: [gentoo-user] CD ripper that generates song titles?
Am Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:06:10 -0400 schrieb Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org: I went to the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) yesterday and indulged in a buying spree of 18 CD sets of my fave music (basically anything pop/rock/country pre-Beatles). I now have over 20 CDs that I want to rip to flac eventually. I dread the gruntwork in renaming tracks like track01.cdda.wav, etc. What Gentoo ebuilds are there for stuff that'll get ahold of track titles? Is it in the form of metadata on the CD? I use a combination of cdda2wav (from cdrtools) and split2flac. I wrap them together in a small shell script [0]. It's not perfect, namely titles generated by cdda2wav can be wrong when the title there are double quotes in them, but other than that it has worked very well for me. [0] https://github.com/marcecj/mjoliet-progs/blob/master/rips.sh -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup pgpMELRC2LyF9.pgp Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP
[gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using xfce4 with compositing turned off?
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 09:36:59 +0100 Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 26 Aug 2015 04:47:24 waben...@gmail.com wrote: walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: Then I generated an xorg.conf in the old way using 'Xorg -configure'. That file didn't work right either. Then I finally realized that the generated xorg.conf had, in the Section Device section, this line: Driverradeon This is the correct driver. But that's not what we want. To use the open-source ati driver I changed that line to read: Driverati This is what I recall it used to be, but now it is radeon. I just tried an experiment. I started my xfce4 session twice, once with Driver radeon: (II) LoadModule: radeon [ 4055.387] (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers/radeon_drv.so [ 4055.387] (II) Module radeon: vendor=X.Org Foundation [ 4055.387]compiled for 1.17.2, module version = 7.5.0 [ 4055.387]Module class: X.Org Video Driver [ 4055.387]ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 19.0 and again with Driver ati: (II) LoadModule: ati [ .981] (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers/ati_drv.so [ .981] (II) Module ati: vendor=X.Org Foundation [ .981]compiled for 1.17.2, module version = 7.5.0 [ .981]Module class: X.Org Video Driver [ .981]ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 19.0 I grant you that tonight I don't see any difference in behavior between the two Drivers, but I did yesterday. But that was 24 hours ago when the moon was in a different phase and my evil computer spirits were in a bad mood, apparently. As I said, I find this whole subject so confusing that I can't explain anything about it, even to myself. To answer wabe's question, lspci -k shows 00:01.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] BeaverCreek [Radeon HD 6530D] Subsystem: Lenovo BeaverCreek [Radeon HD 6530D] Kernel driver in use: radeon Kernel modules: radeon
[gentoo-user] Mysterious sudoers.d error
I've just switched from cdparanoia to cdda2wav, to get track names/artists. As a regular user, I ran... cdda2wav -vall dev=1,0,0 cddb=0 -paranoia -B I got a bunch of complaints about insufficient read and write privileges, but it seems to work OK. I ran the same command as root, and no error messages. So I figured I'd just stick the command into /etc/sudoers.d and run with root privileges under tightly controlled conditions. I ran visudo, and appended what would be the 34th line to /etc/sudoers.d/001 Here were the tentative 32nd/33rd/34th lines... waltdnes d531 = (root) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/fusermount -u /home/waltdnes/tablet waltdnes d531 = (root) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/simple-mtpfs -o allow_other /home/waltdnes/tablet waltdnes d531 = (root) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/cdda2wav -vall dev=1,0,0 cddb=0 -paranoia -B When I attempted to exit visudo, I go a not-so-helpfull message... /etc/sudoers.d/001.tmp 34L, 2078C written /etc/sudoers.d/001: syntax error near line 34 What now? Like the message says, What now?. It's currently a moot point because cdda2wav seems to work OK, notwithstanding the insufficient permissions messages. But if I'm doing something wrong with sudoers, I'd like to find out what it is now, rather than later when I really need it. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Mysterious sudoers.d error
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 07:20:37PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: I've just switched from cdparanoia to cdda2wav, to get track names/artists. As a regular user, I ran... cdda2wav -vall dev=1,0,0 cddb=0 -paranoia -B I got a bunch of complaints about insufficient read and write privileges, but it seems to work OK. I ran the same command as root, and no error messages. What exactly are the error messages? Most likely you just need to be added to the group that has access to CD drives or something like that. So I figured I'd just stick the command into /etc/sudoers.d and run with root privileges under tightly controlled conditions. I ran visudo, and appended what would be the 34th line to /etc/sudoers.d/001 Here were the tentative 32nd/33rd/34th lines... waltdnes d531 = (root) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/fusermount -u /home/waltdnes/tablet waltdnes d531 = (root) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/simple-mtpfs -o allow_other /home/waltdnes/tablet waltdnes d531 = (root) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/cdda2wav -vall dev=1,0,0 cddb=0 -paranoia -B When I attempted to exit visudo, I go a not-so-helpfull message... /etc/sudoers.d/001.tmp 34L, 2078C written /etc/sudoers.d/001: syntax error near line 34 What now? Like the message says, What now?. It's currently a moot point because cdda2wav seems to work OK, notwithstanding the insufficient permissions messages. But if I'm doing something wrong with sudoers, I'd like to find out what it is now, rather than later when I really need it. Looks like it's the commas. Try: waltdnes d531 = (root) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/cdda2wav -vall dev=1\,0\,0 cddb=0 -paranoia -B Alec
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub1: Cant ? Re: keeping grub 1
On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 6:27:14 PM Michel Catudal wrote: Le 2015-08-26 13:37, Fernando Rodriguez a écrit : This may not be complete and some of these may be possible to some extent with legacy grub: 1. Grub Legacy is 32-bit only, so you need 32-bit libraries or use grub- static. Grub2 is portable, even beyond Intel architectures. 2. Grub2 has been rewritten to be modular. Instead of Grub's stages model it uses a core image and a bunch of modules. 3. EFI support without chainloading or other hacks. 4. Better filesystem support. Including loopback devices. 5. Graphics and theming support. 6. Grub2's config file (the one it tells you not to edit manually) is scriptable using a shell-like script language. 7. Password support for each entry. I've had serious problems in the past getting to to install on a partition and gave up. Is that bug fixed? It insists on installing on the MBR which is unacceptable. Yes and no, at least it can be a pain. I remember running into that and got it to work after several hours, unfortunately I forgot how. It may have been that it writes to both the mbr and the partition so you can restore the old mbr and still boot the partition. It also treats removable media and HDs different. It's hard to remember because I tried so many things. I think dd'ing the mbr to an image file and chainloading it worked but I did something else in the end. Next time I go down that road I'll make sure to document it. -- Fernando Rodriguez
[gentoo-user] [SOLVED] Mysterious sudoers.d error
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 07:28:41PM -0400, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 07:20:37PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
I've just switched from cdparanoia to cdda2wav, to get track
names/artists. As a regular user, I ran...
cdda2wav -vall dev=1,0,0 cddb=0 -paranoia -B
I got a bunch of complaints about insufficient read and write
privileges, but it seems to work OK. I ran the same command as root,
and no error messages.
What exactly are the error messages? Most likely you just need to be
added to the group that has access to CD drives or something like that.
I am a member of groups cdrom and cdrw. Here are the messages...
[d531][waltdnes][~/music/glenn_miller_2a] cdda2wav -vall dev=1,0,0 cddb=0
-paranoia -B
cdda2wav: Insufficient 'file read' privileges. You will not be able to open all
needed devices.
cdda2wav: Insufficient 'file write' privileges. You will not be able to open
all needed devices.
cdda2wav: Insufficient 'device' privileges. You may not be able to send all
needed SCSI commands, this my cause various unexplainable problems.
cdda2wav: Insufficient 'priocntl' privileges. You may get jitter.
cdda2wav: Insufficient 'network' privileges. You will not be able to do remote
SCSI.
Type: ROM, Vendor 'TSSTcorp' Model 'CDRWDVD TS-H493B' Revision 'D200' MMC+CDDA
569344 bytes buffer memory requested, transfer size 131072 bytes, 4 buffers, 55
sectors
#Cdda2wav version
3.01a16_linux_4.0.5-gentoo_x86_64_intel-r--core-tm-2-duo-cpu-e4600-@-2.40ghz,
real time sched., soundcard, libparanoia support
AUDIOtrack pre-emphasis copy-permitted tracktype channels
Looks like it's the commas. Try:
waltdnes d531 = (root) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/cdda2wav -vall dev=1\,0\,0
cddb=0 -paranoia -B
It woiks! No warnings. Thank you very much. To avoid my
fumble-fingers, I have a short script ~/bin/cdrip...
#!/bin/bash
sudo /usr/bin/cdda2wav -vall dev=1,0,0 cddb=0 -paranoia -B
This episode prompted me to research further, to see what else has to
be escaped. Google turns up...
http://www.sudo.ws/man/1.8.13/sudoers.man.html#x4f74686572207370656369616c206368617261637465727320616e6420726573657276656420776f726473
Long lines can be continued with a backslash (`\') as the last
character on the line.
White space between elements in a list as well as special syntactic
characters in a User Specification (`=', `:', `(', `)') is optional.
The following characters must be escaped with a backslash (`\') when
used as part of a word (e.g. a user name or host name):
`!', `=', `:', `,', `(', `)', `\'.
... i.e. !=:,()\
--
Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub1: Cant ? Re: keeping grub 1
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 03:10:55PM +, James wrote: James wireless at tampabay.rr.com writes: So on one particular (openrc) system, I have no interest in grub-2 or any other bootloaders. I see grub is both grub 1 and grub 2. So some vintage installs/upgrades got me thinking. What does Grub-2 offer that grub-1 does not. I cannot think of anything that I need from Grub-2 not mbr, nor efi board booting. Not dual/multi booting as grub-1 excels on that, and not on drives larger than 2 T. So what is the (hardware scenario) where grub-2 and it's problems are superior to grub-1? I'm having trouble thinking of that situation...? 64-bit hardware with the no-multilib profile[1]. I have no -bin packages on my system, nor do I run any pre-built 3rd party applications, so I waste no time compiling worthless 32-bit libraries. Therefore, I need grub 2. Alec 1. emerge -p grub:0 AMD64 Team; am...@gentoo.org grub-1 is not available on no-multilib profiles;
Re: [gentoo-user] CD ripper that generates song titles?
On 08/26/2015 03:50 PM, Alex Corkwell wrote: I personally like using morituri [1] for ripping my CDs. It's a little bit slower than some, but very accurate (I believe it compares several reads, just to make sure there were no errors). It's not available in the main portage tree, but it's in the dev-zero overlay as media-sound/morituri. It can rip to flac (with optional cue files) and works from the terminal, if you prefer that. Additionally, it can adjust for drive read offsets when writing files, and is one of the few Linux things I've found which check the rips against AccurateRip. I think I'm going to check this one out. If it works the way I think it does I won't need to keep wine on my 'puter anymore. Dan
Re: [gentoo-user] CD ripper that generates song titles?
On 26/08/2015 22:06, Walter Dnes wrote: I went to the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) yesterday and indulged in a buying spree of 18 CD sets of my fave music (basically anything pop/rock/country pre-Beatles). I now have over 20 CDs that I want to rip to flac eventually. I dread the gruntwork in renaming tracks like track01.cdda.wav, etc. What Gentoo ebuilds are there for stuff that'll get ahold of track titles? Is it in the form of metadata on the CD? media-sound/beets. Best music metadata manager out there, period. There isn't any song metadata as such on a CD, so beets uses musicbrainz as a data source. You sometimes have to get your hands dirty and manage it properly, especially for more esoteric CDs like you just bought. Or maybe you're lucky :-) I find for popular CDs (like what my kids buy in music stores), that k3b does a fine job of getting metadata when ripping - it looks the CD up on CDDB. To do the job properly, and fully manage all the metadata, nothing comes close to beets. It's also a cli python app which will go down well around here, none of that point mith a mouse and click nonsense :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
