Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Saturday 05 Jan 2013 20:44:07 Mark Knecht wrote:
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote:
I think I touched on this a couple of weeks ago but never had time to
dig in. At that time I thought this problem was only on one machine
but now I see it's on every machine I've looked at this morning. Not a
single machine has /dev/cdrom anymore, nor /dev/dvd or any of the
other incantations that have existed forever.
SNIP
OK, this is solved using udevadm and changing the
70-persistent-cd.rules file to key off a different identifier.
Old way:
#SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_PATH}==pci-:00:1f.2-scsi-0:0:0:0, SYMLINK+=cdrom,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
New way:
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_MODEL}==Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S, SYMLINK+=cdrom,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
c2stable ~ # udevadm info --query=all --name=/dev/sr0
P:
/devices/pci:00/:00:1f.2/ata11/host10/target10:0:0/10:0:0:0/block/
sr0 N: sr0
S: scd0
S: disk/by-id/ata-Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S
S: cdrom
S: cdrw
S: dvd
S: dvdrw
E: UDEV_LOG=3
E:
DEVPATH=/devices/pci:00/:00:1f.2/ata11/host10/target10:0:0/10:0:0:
0/block/sr0 E: MAJOR=11
E: MINOR=0
E: DEVNAME=/dev/sr0
E: DEVTYPE=disk
E: SUBSYSTEM=block
E: ID_CDROM=1
E: ID_CDROM_CD=1
E: ID_CDROM_CD_R=1
E: ID_CDROM_CD_RW=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_R=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_RW=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_RAM=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_PLUS_R=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_PLUS_RW=1
E: ID_CDROM_DVD_PLUS_R_DL=1
E: ID_CDROM_MRW=1
E: ID_CDROM_MRW_W=1
E: ID_ATA=1
E: ID_TYPE=cd
E: ID_BUS=ata
E: ID_MODEL=Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S
E:
ID_MODEL_ENC=Optiarc\x20DVD\x20RW\x20AD-7241S\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\
x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20\x20 E: ID_REVISION=1.03
E: ID_SERIAL=Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S
E: ID_ATA_FEATURE_SET_PM=1
E: ID_ATA_FEATURE_SET_PM_ENABLED=1
E: ID_ATA_SATA=1
E: ID_ATA_SATA_SIGNAL_RATE_GEN1=1
E: GENERATED=1
E: UDISKS_PRESENTATION_NOPOLICY=0
E: DEVLINKS=/dev/scd0 /dev/disk/by-id/ata-Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7241S
/dev/cdrom /dev/cdrw /dev/dvd /dev/dvdrw
E: TAGS=:udev-acl:
c2stable ~ #
Maybe this post will save someone else some time.
Thanks Mark, but why do we have to make this file changes ourselves? Isn't it
a bug?
PS. I also have cd dvd /dev links missing.
--
Regards,
Mick
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Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd and lvm
On Sunday 06 January 2013, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 7:36 AM, Robin Atwood robin.atw...@attglobal.net wrote: On Friday 04 Jan 2013, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Robin Atwood robin.atw...@attglobal.net wrote: Having observed all the ranting, I thought I would try systemd on a laptop. It actually seems to work quite well and it is a lot faster. However I am having trouble getting my LVM partitions mounted. I installed the LVM service unit from the Gentoo Wiki but it never completes, timing-out on a job that mounts /var. The VG is actually created by an initramfs and when systemd dumps you out to the emergency shell you can use lvs to see the volumes, /dev/mapper has all the correct devices and dmsetup ls shows the LVs. In fact, everything appears as it should, the partitions just don't get mounted. I circumvented this by putting mount -a in the lvm.service unit, which then completes and the mount jobs time-out. Everything seems to be OK but it is a bit of a kludge. One thing I notice is: # udevadm info -p /dev/mapper/vg00-rootfs -q all syspath not found Udev seems not to know about the LVs. Any ideas? How did you create your initramfs? Have you tried dracut, with DRACUT_MODULES=lvm? Regards. I always use genkernel with LVM=YES in genkernel.conf. There is a thread about the udev issue at http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-6837888.html . I tried the suggested work-around but it made no difference, I must still use mount - a. I've never used genkernel. You could try dracut; its mandatory dependencies are minimal, and it's actually designed to create an initramfs, not like genkernel, where the functionality was added as an afterthought. Another option is to roll your own initramfs, like the first responder in the forums thread. Good luck. Maybe I will try dracut but I suspect the problem lies with systemd. -Robin -- -- Robin Atwood. Ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst, Where there ain't no Ten Commandments an' a man can raise a thirst from Mandalay by Rudyard Kipling --
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone succeeded with kmail2?
On Thursday 03 January 2013 18:22:08 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: I do not know who shat into the brains of the kdepim devs that they fucked up kmail in this unbelievable broken way. Most people do not need akonadi - or nepomuk. Everything worked GREAT. Now most shit only works half way, a lot of crap doesn't work at all - and once in a while (in my experience every 4h of runtime) Nepomuk, that utter waste of electrons starts to eat cpu-cores. +1 Try to find all config files and folder under ~/.kde4somewhat related to kmail2 ad you'll end adding more colorful remarks... F. Talamona
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone succeeded with kmail2?
On 4.9.3 you are still experiencing something similar. Hmmm. Indicates to me a high probability of a systemic problem with the projects approach, something that is unlikely to ever get really fixed. In my opinion kdepim2 is vastly over-engineered and an attempt to solve a problem that does not actually exist. I recommend you use a different mail app. After an indescribable amount of pain and time wasted I was able to regain control over my mail. I recently migrated a kmail used nearly for ten years to the latest kmail2. Migration took around a month of struggle. It's mandatory to have nepomuk+akonadi running (I configured file indexing to run only on a folder containing a few files), it has to be checked for mail too. In the migration you'll lose your filters, your profiles, and the flag of the mail will be randomly changed (thousands of read mail will come up unread, important flag will be lost... And so on). If you try to reimport (after deleting the akonadi database as somewhere advised) the mail from ~/Mail you'll discover the the import tool is unable to handle maildir (or mailbox, I don't remember) format. If, like me, you used kmail for several years, then not all mail folders have the same format, given the fact that the default was changed during time. Beware also that full text indexing is on per default for every mail folder created. So, as soon as I imported a mail folder, I deselected this option by hand (under folder properties - maintenance). So, this is the step-by-step guide to migrate to kmail2: * backup your ~ folder, especially ~/Mail, ~/.config and ~/.kde4 * make sure akonadi, nepomuk co are running (with the command akonadictl status for example). * look carefully in ~/.xsession-errors if some errors appear related to akonadi, nepomuk, mysql, soprano, virtuoso... Do not migrate if you see any errors, fix them first. for example the following error is guaranteed to slowly and painfully drain all of your setup and mail to a black hole: Soprano: Could not connect to server at /tmp/ksocket-sko/nepomuk-socket (No such file or directory) * Delete everything no more necessary (mail messages, old accounts...). * Archive every folder you want to migrate and delete them from the old client * Take note of your filters, especially if some of them makes elaborate operations, mail account settings, profile preferences... * backup again, just to be sure * upgrade kmail, and start kmail2, let it run for the time needed (one night or more is normal) until the I/O and CPU load are back to a reasonable level * reimport archived folder (and disable for each one full text indexing before is started) * reconfigure filters, accounts, profiles... * backup for the last time Hoping to save someone else the waste of time I went through. F. Talamona
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 3:19 AM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP Maybe this post will save someone else some time. Thanks Mark, but why do we have to make this file changes ourselves? Isn't it a bug? PS. I also have cd dvd /dev links missing. -- Regards, Mick I'd say it's a bug. Waiting for it to get officially fixed meant my wife couldn't easily watch a dvd without starting to understand /dev which I didn't think was fair to her. I'm not suggesting what I did was 'the best way', etc. Anyway, I suspect between my and Dave's posts some folks will be able to make things work a bit better until an official solution shows up. In my now nearly 10 years with Gentoo I'd never spent 5 minutes looking at what udev provides. So many people knock it recently. I thought it time to learn a little before it disappears. Cheers, Mar
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone succeeded with kmail2?
On Sunday 06 Jan 2013 15:11:35 Francesco Talamona wrote: On 4.9.3 you are still experiencing something similar. Hmmm. Indicates to me a high probability of a systemic problem with the projects approach, something that is unlikely to ever get really fixed. In my opinion kdepim2 is vastly over-engineered and an attempt to solve a problem that does not actually exist. I recommend you use a different mail app. After an indescribable amount of pain and time wasted I was able to regain control over my mail. I recently migrated a kmail used nearly for ten years to the latest kmail2. Migration took around a month of struggle. It's mandatory to have nepomuk+akonadi running (I configured file indexing to run only on a folder containing a few files), it has to be checked for mail too. In the migration you'll lose your filters, your profiles, and the flag of the mail will be randomly changed (thousands of read mail will come up unread, important flag will be lost... And so on). If you try to reimport (after deleting the akonadi database as somewhere advised) the mail from ~/Mail you'll discover the the import tool is unable to handle maildir (or mailbox, I don't remember) format. If, like me, you used kmail for several years, then not all mail folders have the same format, given the fact that the default was changed during time. Beware also that full text indexing is on per default for every mail folder created. So, as soon as I imported a mail folder, I deselected this option by hand (under folder properties - maintenance). So, this is the step-by-step guide to migrate to kmail2: * backup your ~ folder, especially ~/Mail, ~/.config and ~/.kde4 * make sure akonadi, nepomuk co are running (with the command akonadictl status for example). * look carefully in ~/.xsession-errors if some errors appear related to akonadi, nepomuk, mysql, soprano, virtuoso... Do not migrate if you see any errors, fix them first. for example the following error is guaranteed to slowly and painfully drain all of your setup and mail to a black hole: Soprano: Could not connect to server at /tmp/ksocket-sko/nepomuk-socket (No such file or directory) * Delete everything no more necessary (mail messages, old accounts...). * Archive every folder you want to migrate and delete them from the old client * Take note of your filters, especially if some of them makes elaborate operations, mail account settings, profile preferences... * backup again, just to be sure * upgrade kmail, and start kmail2, let it run for the time needed (one night or more is normal) until the I/O and CPU load are back to a reasonable level * reimport archived folder (and disable for each one full text indexing before is started) * reconfigure filters, accounts, profiles... * backup for the last time Hoping to save someone else the waste of time I went through. F. Talamona WOW! The fact that *any* KDEPIM devs consider this migration torture even remotely acceptable must be a clear sign of advanced insanity! O_O Thank you very much for your detailed instructions. It seems that kmail2 requires the full KDE desktop running or it won't play well. Perhaps that's why my attempts to date were futile. With kmail-1.13.7 I am getting this error: Nepomuk Query Server not available kmail(3842)/kdecore (KConfigSkeleton) KCoreConfigSkeleton::writeConfig: search paths: (/usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, /usr/bin, /bin, /opt/bin, /usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.5.4, /opt/Citrix/ICAClient) /usr/bin/akonadi_nepomuk_contact_feeder(3872) Soprano: Could not connect to server at /tmp/ksocket-michael/nepomuk-socket (No such file or directory) [snip ...] Connecting to deprecated signal QDBusConnectionInterface::serviceOwnerChanged(QString,QString,QString) akonadi_maildispatcher_agent(3871)/libakonadi Akonadi::SpecialCollectionsRequestJob::slotResult: Failed SpecialCollectionsRequestJob::slotResult Failed to fetch the resource collection. It seems that it is a matter of time before I am forced to use T'bird - or make the time to configure and learn how to use mutt. :-( -- Regards, Mick smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Implicit udev dependancy in Gentoo? and workaround.
On 24 December 2012 22:21, Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: I'm asking questions here before filing a bug/reature-request, to make sure I have my ducks in a row. I did a big update a couple of days ago. As per the user in... http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7168984.html I too ran into a situation where I couldn't open any xterms because /dev/pts was empty. The solution for that user came in 2 parts... 1) Add the following line to /etc/fstab devpts /dev/pts devpts defaults 0 0 2) Run rc-update add udev-mount sysinit oops... what udev-mount? I'm the troublemaker/malcontent who runs mdev instead of udev. I noticed that the temporary solution would be to manually execute mount devpts. The problem was that it would only last till the next reboot, after which the mount needed to be issued again. I got around that by putting mount devpts in /etc/local.d/000.start (which file must be executable). It is executed every bootup, solving the problem. My questions... 1) Is this just my system, or has anybody else with mdev run into it? If others have the same problem, I'll update the mdev wiki page to mention this. I run mdev here, but haven't run into the problem you're describing. I don't have an /etc/fstab entry for /dev/pts, so I'm not entirely sure where it's starting, but it's definitely here. $ mount | grep pts devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620) $ ls -l /dev/pts/ total 0 crw--w 1 misternono tty 136, 0 Jan 6 14:27 0 crw--w 1 misternono tty 136, 1 Jan 6 13:48 1 crw--w 1 misternono tty 136, 2 Jan 6 13:32 2 crw--w 1 misternono tty 136, 3 Jan 6 14:27 3 Unless it's started by mdev via rc-update add mdev sysinit. I'm just fartin' around with linux, though, so if you need any other information, let me know. Linux hostname 3.7.1-gentoo #1 SMP Tue Dec 18 16:49:02 EST 2012 i686 Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N280 @ 1.66GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux # rc-update show acpid | default alsasound | boot bootmisc | boot consolefont | boot default dbus | default devfs | sysinit dmesg | sysinit fsck | boot hostname | boot hwclock | boot keymaps | boot killprocs | shutdown laptop_mode | default local | default localmount | boot mdev | sysinit microcode_ctl | default modules | boot mount-ro | shutdown mtab | boot net.eth0 | default net.lo | boot net.wlan0 | default netmount | default ntpd | default procfs | boot root | boot rpcbind | default savecache | shutdown sshd | default swap | boot swapfiles | boot sysctl | boot sysfs | sysinit sysklogd | default termencoding | boot tmpfiles.setup | boot urandom | boot vixie-cron | default
Re: [gentoo-user] IPTABLES syntax change?
On Sat, Jan 05, 2013 at 11:57:10AM +, Mick wrote It will, but only partially. It seems that the list is long and it is getting longer and longer! Check this out: whois -h whois.radb.net -- '-i origin AS32934' | grep ^route (as advised by https://developers.facebook.com/docs/ApplicationSecurity/) ELVIS Thank you, Thank you, Thank you verrry verrry much /ELVIS It's not as bad as it looks, because... a) there's a lot of duplication b) many of the blocks are subsets with a bigger Facebook block 31.13.24.0/21 inetnum:31.13.24.0 - 31.13.31.255 netname:IE-FACEBOOK-20110418 descr: Facebook Ireland Ltd country:IE 31.13.64.0/18 31.13.64.0/19 31.13.64.0/24 31.13.65.0/24 31.13.66.0/24 31.13.67.0/24 31.13.68.0/24 31.13.69.0/24 31.13.70.0/24 31.13.71.0/24 31.13.72.0/24 31.13.73.0/24 31.13.74.0/24 31.13.75.0/24 31.13.76.0/24 31.13.77.0/24 31.13.78.0/24 31.13.79.0/24 31.13.80.0/24 31.13.82.0/24 31.13.83.0/24 31.13.84.0/24 31.13.85.0/24 31.13.86.0/24 31.13.87.0/24 31.13.88.0/24 31.13.89.0/24 31.13.90.0/24 31.13.91.0/24 31.13.92.0/24 31.13.93.0/24 31.13.94.0/24 31.13.95.0/24 31.13.96.0/19 inetnum:31.13.64.0 - 31.13.127.255 netname:IE-FACEBOOK-20110418 descr: Facebook Ireland Ltd country:IE 66.220.144.0/20 66.220.144.0/20 66.220.144.0/21 66.220.152.0/21 66.220.159.0/24 NetRange: 66.220.144.0 - 66.220.159.255 CIDR: 66.220.144.0/20 OrgName:Facebook, Inc. OrgId: THEFA-3 69.63.176.0/20 69.63.176.0/20 69.63.176.0/20 69.63.176.0/21 69.63.176.0/21 69.63.176.0/24 69.63.178.0/24 69.63.184.0/21 69.63.184.0/21 69.63.186.0/24 NetRange: 69.63.176.0 - 69.63.191.255 CIDR: 69.63.176.0/20 OrgName:Facebook, Inc. OrgId: THEFA-3 69.171.224.0/19 69.171.224.0/20 69.171.239.0/24 69.171.240.0/20 69.171.253.0/24 69.171.255.0/24 NetRange: 69.171.224.0 - 69.171.255.255 CIDR: 69.171.224.0/19 OrgName:Facebook, Inc. OrgId: THEFA-3 74.119.76.0/22 NetRange: 74.119.76.0 - 74.119.79.255 CIDR: 74.119.76.0/22 OrgName:Facebook, Inc. OrgId: THEFA-3 103.4.96.0/22 inetnum:103.4.96.0 - 103.4.99.255 netname:FACEBOOK-SG 173.252.64.0/18 173.252.64.0/19 173.252.70.0/24 173.252.96.0/19 NetRange: 173.252.64.0 - 173.252.127.255 CIDR: 173.252.64.0/18 OriginAS: AS32934 NetName:FACEBOOK-INC 204.15.20.0/22 204.15.20.0/22 NetRange: 204.15.20.0 - 204.15.23.255 CIDR: 204.15.20.0/22 OrgName:Facebook, Inc. OrgId: THEFA-3 A grand total of 9 IPV4 ranges, of which I already have 6. Time for a minor update. Thanks again for the whois lookup command. BTW, websites may break if you block all these ip ranges. LENNART It's their fault that they're broken, not mine /LENNART -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
[gentoo-user] How to mount /tmp as tmpfs?
It seems that mounting /tmp as a tmpfs filesystem isn't just a matter of adding an fstab entry. Sometimes, on bootup, I get error messages: fusermount: error: /tmp/dsflkjslfjsdlsomegarbledname doesn't exist Or something like that (it scrolls by very fast and openrc doesn't seem to log anything.) Is there a safe way to mount /tmp early on? It seems that mounting it through fstab is mounting it too late and files have already been created in it (which are then lost when mounting it.)
Re: [gentoo-user] How to mount /tmp as tmpfs?
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: It seems that mounting /tmp as a tmpfs filesystem isn't just a matter of adding an fstab entry. Sometimes, on bootup, I get error messages: fusermount: error: /tmp/dsflkjslfjsdlsomegarbledname doesn't exist Or something like that (it scrolls by very fast and openrc doesn't seem to log anything.) Is there a safe way to mount /tmp early on? It seems that mounting it through fstab is mounting it too late and files have already been created in it (which are then lost when mounting it.) Why is /tmp being mounted by fusermount? Can you show us yout fstab /tmp entry? Mine looks like: tmpfs /tmptmpfs defaults,nosuid,size=100% 0 0 It's mounted like this: # mount|grep /tmp tmpfs on /tmp type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,relatime,size=6008324k) Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] How to mount /tmp as tmpfs?
Am Sonntag, 6. Januar 2013, 23:59:21 schrieb Nikos Chantziaras: It seems that mounting /tmp as a tmpfs filesystem isn't just a matter of adding an fstab entry. Sometimes, on bootup, I get error messages: fusermount: error: /tmp/dsflkjslfjsdlsomegarbledname doesn't exist Or something like that (it scrolls by very fast and openrc doesn't seem to log anything.) Is there a safe way to mount /tmp early on? It seems that mounting it through fstab is mounting it too late and files have already been created in it (which are then lost when mounting it.) tmpfs /var/tmp/portage tmpfs rw,size=8G 0 0 tmpfs /tmptmpfs rw,size=1G 0 0 have that in fstab and never got errors. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] How to mount /tmp as tmpfs?
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: It seems that mounting /tmp as a tmpfs filesystem isn't just a matter of adding an fstab entry. Sometimes, on bootup, I get error messages: fusermount: error: /tmp/dsflkjslfjsdlsomegarbledname doesn't exist Or something like that (it scrolls by very fast and openrc doesn't seem to log anything.) Is there a safe way to mount /tmp early on? It seems that mounting it through fstab is mounting it too late and files have already been created in it (which are then lost when mounting it.) Interesting question. Have you perused these older threads, or possibly others like it? It looks a _lot_ more involved than just an fstab entry. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-371889-highlight-tmpfs.html http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=16450 HTH, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
Mark Knecht wrote: On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 3:19 AM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP Maybe this post will save someone else some time. Thanks Mark, but why do we have to make this file changes ourselves? Isn't it a bug? PS. I also have cd dvd /dev links missing. -- Regards, Mick I'd say it's a bug. Waiting for it to get officially fixed meant my wife couldn't easily watch a dvd without starting to understand /dev which I didn't think was fair to her. I'm not suggesting what I did was 'the best way', etc. Anyway, I suspect between my and Dave's posts some folks will be able to make things work a bit better until an official solution shows up. In my now nearly 10 years with Gentoo I'd never spent 5 minutes looking at what udev provides. So many people knock it recently. I thought it time to learn a little before it disappears. Cheers, Mar I'm not sure that is a bug. As I posted earlier, this was changed a good while back. There was a reason for it but I can't recall what it was. The new devices for CD/DVDs is /dev/sr*. I don't have, and have not had, /dev/cdrom or dvd on this rig for a good while and it works. I think this happened about the same time as the hard drive devices were changed from hd* to sd* even for old IDE drives. Since it was changed on purpose, I don't believe this is a bug. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I'm not sure that is a bug. As I posted earlier, this was changed a good while back. There was a reason for it but I can't recall what it was. The new devices for CD/DVDs is /dev/sr*. I don't have, and have not had, /dev/cdrom or dvd on this rig for a good while and it works. I think this happened about the same time as the hard drive devices were changed from hd* to sd* even for old IDE drives. Since it was changed on purpose, I don't believe this is a bug. Dale Might be true but how about digging up some references that this was done on purpose. It makes little sense to me that if someone did this on purpose, breaking lots of old scripts, leaving broken udev rules laying about and just assuming everyone would figure it out without so much and a news item then I'd say it was done pretty badly. Again, if it truly was 'on purpose' as you say then that's OK, but let's not create too much false history here. In my mind it's just as reasonable that it's just a mistake or someone that was overlooked, but I'm totally open to you showing us what we all missed.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On 07/01/13 09:44, Mark Knecht wrote: On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I'm not sure that is a bug. As I posted earlier, this was changed a good while back. There was a reason for it but I can't recall what it was. The new devices for CD/DVDs is /dev/sr*. I don't have, and have not had, /dev/cdrom or dvd on this rig for a good while and it works. I think this happened about the same time as the hard drive devices were changed from hd* to sd* even for old IDE drives. Since it was changed on purpose, I don't believe this is a bug. Dale Might be true but how about digging up some references that this was done on purpose. It makes little sense to me that if someone did this on purpose, breaking lots of old scripts, leaving broken udev rules laying about and just assuming everyone would figure it out without so much and a news item then I'd say it was done pretty badly. Again, if it truly was 'on purpose' as you say then that's OK, but let's not create too much false history here. In my mind it's just as reasonable that it's just a mistake or someone that was overlooked, but I'm totally open to you showing us what we all missed. Seems like the cabal has been busy again ... its not a bug but a feature! http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/hotplug/udev.git;a=commit;h=19b66dc57cce27175ff421c4c3a37e4a491b9c01 Also some hits on gentoo forums etc which imply that when actually merged, the rules file was not included.. This did happen awhile back and I just moved to /dev/sr0 and got on with life so didnt go into it in too much detail. BillK
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:53 PM, William Kenworthy bi...@iinet.net.au wrote: On 07/01/13 09:44, Mark Knecht wrote: On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I'm not sure that is a bug. As I posted earlier, this was changed a good while back. There was a reason for it but I can't recall what it was. The new devices for CD/DVDs is /dev/sr*. I don't have, and have not had, /dev/cdrom or dvd on this rig for a good while and it works. I think this happened about the same time as the hard drive devices were changed from hd* to sd* even for old IDE drives. Since it was changed on purpose, I don't believe this is a bug. Dale Might be true but how about digging up some references that this was done on purpose. It makes little sense to me that if someone did this on purpose, breaking lots of old scripts, leaving broken udev rules laying about and just assuming everyone would figure it out without so much and a news item then I'd say it was done pretty badly. Again, if it truly was 'on purpose' as you say then that's OK, but let's not create too much false history here. In my mind it's just as reasonable that it's just a mistake or someone that was overlooked, but I'm totally open to you showing us what we all missed. Seems like the cabal has been busy again ... its not a bug but a feature! http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/hotplug/udev.git;a=commit;h=19b66dc57cce27175ff421c4c3a37e4a491b9c01 Also some hits on gentoo forums etc which imply that when actually merged, the rules file was not included.. This did happen awhile back and I just moved to /dev/sr0 and got on with life so didnt go into it in too much detail. BillK Bill, From the link you provided: From now on, udev will only create /dev/cdrom for the first optical drive, and if the drive is capable /dev/dvd. No other devices will get any compatibility symlinks or enumerated device names like cdrom1, cdrom2, and so on. The /dev/cdrom and /dev/dvd links have by default a negative link priority, which will cause them to be overwritten by any other device which clains the same names with already existing udev rules. According to the above info Kay didn't single-handedly eliminate /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd. I understand lots of folks are quite unhappy with udev and some of the decisions Kay has been taking. (I do real LKML!) :-) Anyway, I'm not saying it isn't on purpose. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
William Kenworthy wrote: On 07/01/13 09:44, Mark Knecht wrote: On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I'm not sure that is a bug. As I posted earlier, this was changed a good while back. There was a reason for it but I can't recall what it was. The new devices for CD/DVDs is /dev/sr*. I don't have, and have not had, /dev/cdrom or dvd on this rig for a good while and it works. I think this happened about the same time as the hard drive devices were changed from hd* to sd* even for old IDE drives. Since it was changed on purpose, I don't believe this is a bug. Dale Might be true but how about digging up some references that this was done on purpose. It makes little sense to me that if someone did this on purpose, breaking lots of old scripts, leaving broken udev rules laying about and just assuming everyone would figure it out without so much and a news item then I'd say it was done pretty badly. Again, if it truly was 'on purpose' as you say then that's OK, but let's not create too much false history here. In my mind it's just as reasonable that it's just a mistake or someone that was overlooked, but I'm totally open to you showing us what we all missed. Seems like the cabal has been busy again ... its not a bug but a feature! http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/hotplug/udev.git;a=commit;h=19b66dc57cce27175ff421c4c3a37e4a491b9c01 Also some hits on gentoo forums etc which imply that when actually merged, the rules file was not included.. This did happen awhile back and I just moved to /dev/sr0 and got on with life so didnt go into it in too much detail. BillK This is not Gentoo specific but I found this in a search that is just getting started: http://rlworkman.net/howtos/libata-switchover So, it did happen when switching from old IDE based drivers to the newer, some claim improved, PATA/SATA drivers. It appears the kernel started this but still searching for confirmation. Like Bill, when it was changed, I just updated the device information in my programs and went on. It was the new way and it seemed it was going to be around for a good long while. It looks like people who have created scripts are going to have to fire up vi or nano and do a little updating. Going to search some more to get a better source. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone succeeded with kmail2?
On 04/01/13 17:09, Mick wrote: On Friday 04 Jan 2013 04:13:21 Randy Barlow wrote: On 01/03/2013 12:09 PM, Peter Humphrey wrote: Does anyone recommend a mail client that doesn't rely too heavily on the mouse? I much prefer to navigate, reply etc with the keyboard. I've seen Evolution recommended; is that OK? Thunderbird is my favorite mail client. You can do a lot with the KB. For example, go to next read mail is just 'n' for next. CTRL-R for reply. It's not bad to learn the shortcuts. Plus it has a lot of great features and extensions. For CLI clients, I sometimes use Mutt. It's a little bit of a pain to configure for IMAP, but once you get it going it's pretty cool. Can mutt be made to use autocompletion for email addresses and to automatically select encryption keys (gpg and/or s/mime)? Last time I tried it briefly this became a sticking point for me ... Apologies for breaking the proper threading, if indeed I have. I've got Thunderbird to connect to my ISP and fetch new messages, but I now have another, large problem. It won't import my 25,000 or so messages from kmail, nor even its filters. I do not wish to lose all that history, so can anyone suggest another e-mail client that can reliably import messages and filters from kmail? Alternatively, since kmail version 1 has disappeared from the current mirrors, does it live in an overlay somewhere so that I can get the old, solid behaviour back? I assume that if I do regress to the old version I'll lose everything that's come in since the upgrade (it's a POP3 server). -- Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
Dale wrote: William Kenworthy wrote: On 07/01/13 09:44, Mark Knecht wrote: On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I'm not sure that is a bug. As I posted earlier, this was changed a good while back. There was a reason for it but I can't recall what it was. The new devices for CD/DVDs is /dev/sr*. I don't have, and have not had, /dev/cdrom or dvd on this rig for a good while and it works. I think this happened about the same time as the hard drive devices were changed from hd* to sd* even for old IDE drives. Since it was changed on purpose, I don't believe this is a bug. Dale Might be true but how about digging up some references that this was done on purpose. It makes little sense to me that if someone did this on purpose, breaking lots of old scripts, leaving broken udev rules laying about and just assuming everyone would figure it out without so much and a news item then I'd say it was done pretty badly. Again, if it truly was 'on purpose' as you say then that's OK, but let's not create too much false history here. In my mind it's just as reasonable that it's just a mistake or someone that was overlooked, but I'm totally open to you showing us what we all missed. Seems like the cabal has been busy again ... its not a bug but a feature! http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/hotplug/udev.git;a=commit;h=19b66dc57cce27175ff421c4c3a37e4a491b9c01 Also some hits on gentoo forums etc which imply that when actually merged, the rules file was not included.. This did happen awhile back and I just moved to /dev/sr0 and got on with life so didnt go into it in too much detail. BillK This is not Gentoo specific but I found this in a search that is just getting started: http://rlworkman.net/howtos/libata-switchover So, it did happen when switching from old IDE based drivers to the newer, some claim improved, PATA/SATA drivers. It appears the kernel started this but still searching for confirmation. Like Bill, when it was changed, I just updated the device information in my programs and went on. It was the new way and it seemed it was going to be around for a good long while. It looks like people who have created scripts are going to have to fire up vi or nano and do a little updating. Going to search some more to get a better source. Dale :-) :-) This links goes to a specific post in the thread. Don't scroll or you will have to dig. The one to look far if it messes up is the post by NeddySeagoon. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-6362608.html#6362608 More info: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/kernel-config.xml#doc_chap3 According to one page I found, this happened several years ago so no idea how anyone missed it this long. It was discussed on this very list but my archives don't go back that far. I figure if I don't run into a problem in a year or so, I missed it which is a odd thing of itself since I usually find every problem there is. ;-) Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone succeeded with kmail2?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 01/06/2013 09:10 PM, Peter Humphrey wrote: I've got Thunderbird to connect to my ISP and fetch new messages, but I now have another, large problem. It won't import my 25,000 or so messages from kmail, nor even its filters. I do not wish to lose all that history, so can anyone suggest another e-mail client that can reliably import messages and filters from kmail? That seems like it will likely be tricky. I don't know a lot about kmail, but I've got two ideas that might work: 1) Depending on what kmail can do, you might be able to set up a maildir or mbox folder with kmail, and have kmail transfer all that mail into it. I believe Thunderbird can ready both mbox and maildir, so that might be a nice solution if kmail can do that. 2) Another idea I thought of that might be heavy handed, but might also work would be to set up an IMAP server of your own. Then you can connect kmail to that IMAP server, transfer all your mail to the server, then connect Thunderbird to it and import it. It's certainly not a simple idea, but it should work. Cyrus is the IMAP server that I use, but there are others, and perhaps some that are simpler to configure. Hope this helps! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlDqNmcACgkQw3vjPfF7QfVuMgCggFCMdmW4IIOzMPZeMzrw/eX9 wPoAoJoNP8Nbg+tCI3C28os4aYYA/uSv =VHZe -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[gentoo-user] Install from USB stick; here's how
For those of you who don't want to do the tap-dance listed at... http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/liveusb.xml * My netbook's harddrive is normally /dev/sda, except when I boot from a USB stick. The stick will become /dev/sda and the harddrive becomes /dev/sdb * My desktop's harddrive is also /dev/sda. I took the linux minimal install ISO, ran isohybrid on it, with the command... isohybrid install-x86-minimal-20121213.iso If you don't have isohybrid... emerge sys-boot/syslinux * I then copied it over to a USB stick (/dev/sdb) with the command... dd bs=4M if=install-x86-minimal-20121213.iso of=/dev/sdb Note that it's just the device letter. There is no partition number. Your letter may be different. Note also that the USB stick must *NOT* be mounted. - WARNING - be absolutely certain you have the letter right. E.g. using your harddrive's device letter would zap your harddrive. * I booted from the USB key and had an uneventful install. There were a few differences... - stuff that would normally be done to /dev/sda was done to /dev/sdb, because the USB stick with the install ISO was /dev/sda - I don't know if it was the install-from-USB, or my weird lan (192.168.123.248/248), but net-setup did not take for my wired eth0 address. I ran ifconfig and route manually. - lilo had to be set up differently for the first boot. This is a section in its own right * lilo will be written when the netbook's harddrive is /dev/sdb, but when the USB key is removed, it will boot with the harddrive as /dev/sda. lilo does not allow you to specify a non-existant partition in the image root section. But fortunately, you can do so in the append line, and even more fortunately, the append line overrides the image root section. Here's what I did... - WARNING - Change the # MBR to install LILO to: section to # MBR to install LILO to: boot = /dev/sdb The default /dev/sda will overwrite the boot record of the install USB stick, and not update your harddrive - Since my root is on partition ID 6, I set the image entry like so. Adjust for your system image = /boot/kernel-production root = /dev/sdb6 label = Production read-only # read-only for checking append = root=/dev/sda6 Note that the main entry specifies root as /dev/sdb6 but the append entry specifies root as root=/dev/sda6. - run the lilo command. It will issue a warning about not going to the first disc; ignore the warning. Reboot, and remember to take out the USB stick before the system can boot from it. - First thing to do after the first boot is to edit /etc/lilo.conf to normal values; i.e. usually put /dev/sda in as expected # MBR to install LILO to: boot = /dev/sda image = /boot/kernel-production root = /dev/sda6 label = Production read-only # read-only for checking append = Adjust for your system. Then run lilo. You now have a standard lilo setup. * You can keep the USB stick as rescue CD on a USB stick. If you want to return the USB stick to normal use, you'll have to zero out the first sector before you can repartition and reformat it. The command (assuming the stick is /dev/sdb) is... dd count=1 bs=512 if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb - WARNING - be absolutely certain you have the letter right. E.g. using your harddrive's device letter would zap your harddrive. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Resetting USB flash
On Sat, Jan 05, 2013 at 10:05:29AM +, Mick wrote On Saturday 05 Jan 2013 02:26:18 Walter Dnes wrote: One last gasp... were you doing this as root? Regular users cannot dd directly to a device, for obvious reasons. Yes, also tried it as root. No change. BTW, with the device mounted I shouldn't have a problem with dd on a file. Whoa... you should *NOT* have it mounted when trying to dd to the device. I.e., it must be mounted if you're trying... dd if=~/foo of=/media/usbstick/bar But it must *NOT* be mounted if you want to... dd count=1 bs=512 if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdx Do you run with an automounter? -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP This links goes to a specific post in the thread. Don't scroll or you will have to dig. The one to look far if it messes up is the post by NeddySeagoon. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-6362608.html#6362608 More info: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/kernel-config.xml#doc_chap3 According to one page I found, this happened several years ago so no idea how anyone missed it this long. It was discussed on this very list but my archives don't go back that far. I figure if I don't run into a problem in a year or so, I missed it which is a odd thing of itself since I usually find every problem there is. ;-) Dale Dale, Thanks for digging that up. It's interesting, but I don't think it's exactly relevant. TTBOMK I've used /dev/sdX and /dev/srX for as long as it's been available. Most of my machines these days were all built after the change so it's all they've ever known. Maybe one machine used /dev/dhX. However, that's not the issue I'm looking for background on. You seemed to say earlier that it's a widely known thing that udev links to /dev/srX are not only broken but also bogus. You don't use them. Others have seen the same issue. I've seen the udev links not work for a couple of months. However from what I can tell you don't use them 1) because they broke, and 2) like me you never took the time to determine _why_ they broke. I was in the same place until yesterday when I decided to dig in a little bit. Now, my point is that while the old links created in old rules files are broken (and they are) it's not clear to me that udev is broken. Clear Kay Sievers (sp?) still assumes they work although they will automatically only do /dev/sr0. The use is responsible for creating others if they need them. (Which 99% of folks will not, so basically, it still works.) What appears to have actually broken is the old PCI path nomeclature, and not 'udev proper', as best I can tell. Anyway, it's well known in the known universe that you are mad at udev so I don't expect you're looking for ways to make this stuff work and I do appreciate you digging the stuff up that you found. Thanks. Over and out, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone succeeded with kmail2?
On Sunday 06 January 2013 19:22:16 Mick wrote: WOW! The fact that any KDEPIM devs consider this migration torture even remotely acceptable must be a clear sign of advanced insanity! O_O Thank you very much for your detailed instructions. It seems that kmail2 requires the full KDE desktop running or it won't play well. Perhaps that's why my attempts to date were futile. With kmail-1.13.7 I am getting this error: Nepomuk Query Server not available kmail(3842)/kdecore (KConfigSkeleton) KCoreConfigSkeleton::writeConfig: search paths: (/usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, /usr/bin, /bin, /opt/bin, /usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.5.4, /opt/Citrix/ICAClient) /usr/bin/akonadi_nepomuk_contact_feeder(3872) Soprano: Could not connect to server at /tmp/ksocket-michael/nepomuk-socket (No such file or directory) [snip ...] Connecting to deprecated signal QDBusConnectionInterface::serviceOwnerChanged(QString,QString,QString) akonadi_maildispatcher_agent(3871)/libakonadi Akonadi::SpecialCollectionsRequestJob::slotResult: Failed SpecialCollectionsRequestJob::slotResult Failed to fetch the resource collection. It seems that it is a matter of time before I am forced to use T'bird - or make the time to configure and learn how to use mutt. :-( The error is simply telling you that indexing is not active, try in System Settings - Desktop Search - Nepomuk/Strigi Server Configuration - check Enable Nepomuk Semantic Desktop and Enable Email Indexer The crazy thing is that the migration won't work without this enabled, yet the process isn't aborted if this mandatory part of it is absent/not running... Cheers F. Talamona
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Resetting USB flash
On Monday 07 Jan 2013 03:13:30 Walter Dnes wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2013 at 10:05:29AM +, Mick wrote On Saturday 05 Jan 2013 02:26:18 Walter Dnes wrote: One last gasp... were you doing this as root? Regular users cannot dd directly to a device, for obvious reasons. Yes, also tried it as root. No change. BTW, with the device mounted I shouldn't have a problem with dd on a file. Whoa... you should *NOT* have it mounted when trying to dd to the device. I.e., it must be mounted if you're trying... dd if=~/foo of=/media/usbstick/bar But it must *NOT* be mounted if you want to... dd count=1 bs=512 if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdx Yes, of course, we're saying the same thing. Do you run with an automounter? Nope! It would drive me insane ... -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 4 machines - no /dev/cdrom or /dev/dvd anymore
Mark Knecht wrote: On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP This links goes to a specific post in the thread. Don't scroll or you will have to dig. The one to look far if it messes up is the post by NeddySeagoon. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-6362608.html#6362608 More info: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/kernel-config.xml#doc_chap3 According to one page I found, this happened several years ago so no idea how anyone missed it this long. It was discussed on this very list but my archives don't go back that far. I figure if I don't run into a problem in a year or so, I missed it which is a odd thing of itself since I usually find every problem there is. ;-) Dale Dale, Thanks for digging that up. It's interesting, but I don't think it's exactly relevant. TTBOMK I've used /dev/sdX and /dev/srX for as long as it's been available. Most of my machines these days were all built after the change so it's all they've ever known. Maybe one machine used /dev/dhX. However, that's not the issue I'm looking for background on. You seemed to say earlier that it's a widely known thing that udev links to /dev/srX are not only broken but also bogus. You don't use them. Others have seen the same issue. I've seen the udev links not work for a couple of months. However from what I can tell you don't use them 1) because they broke, and 2) like me you never took the time to determine _why_ they broke. I was in the same place until yesterday when I decided to dig in a little bit. Now, my point is that while the old links created in old rules files are broken (and they are) it's not clear to me that udev is broken. Clear Kay Sievers (sp?) still assumes they work although they will automatically only do /dev/sr0. The use is responsible for creating others if they need them. (Which 99% of folks will not, so basically, it still works.) What appears to have actually broken is the old PCI path nomeclature, and not 'udev proper', as best I can tell. Anyway, it's well known in the known universe that you are mad at udev so I don't expect you're looking for ways to make this stuff work and I do appreciate you digging the stuff up that you found. Thanks. Over and out, Mark I think you misunderstand or I didn't make myself clear. I'm not saying it was udev that did this. I am pretty sure it was the kernel. All this happened when people with older IDE drives, myself included on my old machine, had to switch to the new drivers and devices. Before the change, old IDE drives and CD/DVD drives were given hd* devices and udev made a link to that with /dev/cdrom or dvd or whatever for optical devices which is what you seem to expect now. The reason udev did that was for it to be consistent which I have no problem with . When the kernel folks changed this, they also changed it from /dev/cdrom and /dev/dvd to /dev/sr0. From my understanding, all optical devices such as CD and DVD readers/burners are supposed to be sr0. I know k3b updated theirs too. I seem to recall I had to run a unstable version for a bit because the older version didn't have the code to see sr* devices. I never said anything was broke, just that it was changed. There was several things that was changed at about the same time that were related and this was just one of them. Another was the change from /dev/hdXX to /dev/sdXX for ALL hard drives. This change happened even if you was using the old IDE drives. As I understand it, /dev/hdxx is no longer supported on current kernels. All hard drives are /dev/sdxx and optical drives are /dev/sr0(1,2,3,4 etc). Also, I didn't remove anything. It was changed by the kernel which also lead to udev changing what it did. Again, as much as I dislike what udev is planning, I never said udev did this one. I'm pretty sure this was all started with the kernel devs. The udev folks just followed along. The biggest thing I recall is everyone with IDE drives having to update the kernel config, edit fstab and grub or lilo before rebooting. This was discussed on this list and I don't recall much fuss except for having to change it and update everything. It was sort of a one time thing and had a long term goal. All hard drives are sdxx and optical devices are srx. All this happened when I was on my old rig which was at least a few years ago. Does that make more sense now? Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone succeeded with kmail2?
On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 21:43:51 -0500 Randy Barlow ra...@electronsweatshop.com wrote: That seems like it will likely be tricky. I don't know a lot about kmail, but I've got two ideas that might work: 1) Depending on what kmail can do, you might be able to set up a maildir or mbox folder with kmail, and have kmail transfer all that mail into it. I believe Thunderbird can ready both mbox and maildir, so that might be a nice solution if kmail can do that. 2) Another idea I thought of that might be heavy handed, but might also work would be to set up an IMAP server of your own. Then you can connect kmail to that IMAP server, transfer all your mail to the server, then connect Thunderbird to it and import it. It's certainly not a simple idea, but it should work. Cyrus is the IMAP server that I use, but there are others, and perhaps some that are simpler to configure. I use option 2) as well, to great effect. I run dovecot locally and back in the KDE3 days had transferred all my mail into it. kmail's INBOX was the default kmail folder, and filters moved every incoming mail to an IMAP folder. It runs slower than local mail folders (IMAP will never be as fast as simply looking on the disk) but it comes with the benefit of a sane maildir folder that dovecot reads without any of the peculiarities that all mail clients seem to have about their own local storage. And switching mail clients (or using two at the same time) is a simple matter of configuring a new mail source on the client. The best solution of all would be to have some process fetch your mail from everywhere and have procmail filter it. I never bothered going to that extent though, I just relied on filters in my primary mail client. It has the benefit that a mail client only reads and sends, and is not involved with changing the master mail store in any way (aka kmail2's ability to disastrously fuck up your mail life completely is severely limited) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
