Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
* Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'su -' and become root where everything is allowed. 'sudo' or a gui derivative. If the user has been authorized by root, just run the whole command with root priviledges as the user can obviously be trusted. You could also try my su-wrapper - it maps specific uid+cmdline to another uid+cmdline. Fine for things like allowing specific users to dialup, etc. Microsoft's stated reason for this is to annoy users so much that they will annoy 3rd party developers who will write software that doesn't need root to install. H. *rofl* Well, that's just the good old M$ way ;-P cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On 27 Apr 2008, at 11:55, Alan McKinnon wrote: ... Microsoft's stated reason for this is to annoy users so much that they will annoy 3rd party developers who will write software that doesn't need root to install. H. Is this not - substantially - the same as the reason for the Portage QA warning messages? ;) Stroller. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On Monday 28 April 2008, Stroller wrote: On 27 Apr 2008, at 11:55, Alan McKinnon wrote: ... Microsoft's stated reason for this is to annoy users so much that they will annoy 3rd party developers who will write software that doesn't need root to install. H. Is this not - substantially - the same as the reason for the Portage QA warning messages? ;) hehehe, well spotted :-) Superficially similar, but very different in implementation. Portage tells you about stuff that could be improved, it can be disabled by those who don't know what to do about it and the user has the choice. UAC just gets in your face like an annoying fruit fly buzzing round your nose and won't go away. The user does not have a choice worth a damn and is not in control -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
-Original Message- From: Alan McKinnon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:48 AM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone? On Monday 28 April 2008, Stroller wrote: On 27 Apr 2008, at 11:55, Alan McKinnon wrote: ... Microsoft's stated reason for this is to annoy users so much that they will annoy 3rd party developers who will write software that doesn't need root to install. H. Is this not - substantially - the same as the reason for the Portage QA warning messages? ;) hehehe, well spotted :-) Superficially similar, but very different in implementation. Portage tells you about stuff that could be improved, it can be disabled by those who don't know what to do about it and the user has the choice. UAC just gets in your face like an annoying fruit fly buzzing round your nose and won't go away. The user does not have a choice worth a damn and is not in control -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list UAC can be disabled. Fairly easily, in fact: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/disable-user-account-control-ua c-the-easy-way-on-windows-vista/ - John Krukoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On Friday 25 April 2008 06:45:34 Alan McKinnon wrote: Elog messages with yellow stars should *never* be ignored. Unlike UAC, they are not there with the express purpose of annoying users. Having no knowledge of Vista, nor a wish to try it, what is a UAC? Google tells me it's a Universal air connection for scba, which doesn't seem right here. -- Rgds Peter -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On Sunday 27 April 2008, Peter Humphrey wrote: On Friday 25 April 2008 06:45:34 Alan McKinnon wrote: Elog messages with yellow stars should *never* be ignored. Unlike UAC, they are not there with the express purpose of annoying users. Having no knowledge of Vista, nor a wish to try it, what is a UAC? Google tells me it's a Universal air connection for scba, which doesn't seem right here. User Access Control. Microsoft's implementation of a get authorisation to do this before doing it thingy. There are two good ways to do this and a plethora of wrong ways. The right ways: 'su -' and become root where everything is allowed. 'sudo' or a gui derivative. If the user has been authorized by root, just run the whole command with root priviledges as the user can obviously be trusted. Microsoft's wrong way: Intercept every single action that requires root priviledges and give a popup to confirm. Half the time the user has no idea what the machine is on about and just clicks Yes. Heck, I was trying to install OpenVPN on Vista and had no idea what it was on about half the time, and I have 20 years solid technical experience backing me up. WHat chance does Aunt Tilly or your grandma stand? Microsoft's stated reason for this is to annoy users so much that they will annoy 3rd party developers who will write software that doesn't need root to install. H. I dunno, I have a healthy tin foil hat. Here's what I think: Users will become so annoyed with UAC that they will find the hidden box that says click here to never receive these popups again and blog it. Many users will do it, Microsoft doesn't have to bother with security all that much anymore and we are back to XP behaviour with machines infested with malware, opening up a nice revenue stream for New! Improved! Microsoft Anti-Virus! (and taking out Norton in the process). Except this time it's not the default behaviour, the user deliberately clicked the button so they take responsibility now and Microsoft is off the hook for deliberately shipping unsafe software that does not perform to reasonable expectations. Sudo is so much better and infinitely less intrusive. It's also a solved problem years ago. Why didn't they use it? /end of rant -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On Sunday 27 April 2008 11:55:12 Alan McKinnon wrote: Sudo is so much better and infinitely less intrusive. It's also a solved problem years ago. Why didn't they use it? NIH. -- Rgds Peter -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On Sunday 27 April 2008, Peter Humphrey wrote: On Sunday 27 April 2008 11:55:12 Alan McKinnon wrote: Sudo is so much better and infinitely less intrusive. It's also a solved problem years ago. Why didn't they use it? NIH. Of course, silly me. I was forgetting who exactly the who in question was :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 09:07:17PM +0200, Justin wrote Why are you doing things without knowing about the consequences? Always ask before you are doing things which could be stupid!!! In my case, this was the umpteenth time I encountered circular blocks. After asking the first couple of times, I settled down to a pattern of unmerging both halves of the problem and restarting the emerge. This has worked fine until now. And yes, I've seen the warning about may harm your system a lot of times. If it didn't come up as often as Vista's UAC warning, when manually unmerging stuff, I probably would've asked first. To quote The Firesign Theatre... Everything you know is wrong. Procedures that worked OK so far blew up this time. All I can say is not to be annoyed in the next little while when people start asking about how to handle each and every circular block they run into. Once burned... twice shy. -- Walter Dnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stop the Squeegee Kids in Pinstripe Suits Fight SAC's Canadian internet tax http://walterdnes.wordpress.com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On Friday 25 April 2008, Walter Dnes wrote: On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 09:07:17PM +0200, Justin wrote Why are you doing things without knowing about the consequences? Always ask before you are doing things which could be stupid!!! In my case, this was the umpteenth time I encountered circular blocks. After asking the first couple of times, I settled down to a pattern of unmerging both halves of the problem and restarting the emerge. This has worked fine until now. And yes, I've seen the warning about may harm your system a lot of times. If it didn't come up as often as Vista's UAC warning, when manually unmerging stuff, I probably would've asked first. There's really only one way t deal with circular blockers, and that is to know enough about why the blocker is there to make a decision about it. You have to act like say an Ubuntu maintainer as that is really what you are doing, just local to your own system. I tend to read the ebuilds if I don't know the packages well. If upgrades are involved, I invariably have to unmerge the older one (it clashes with a new way of doing things). If one of the packages is something new, then I must decide which one I want to keep. Elog messages with yellow stars should *never* be ignored. Unlike UAC, they are not there with the express purpose of annoying users. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On 19 Apr 2008, at 21:15, Uwe Thiem wrote: ... Did you never make dire mistakes? Well, if you haven't you may keep throwing stones in a glasshouse. If he's never made a dire mistake then he doesn't live in a glass house. Stroller. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
Did you never make dire mistakes? Well, if you haven't you may keep throwing stones in a glasshouse. You are right! Once I did this: rm -rv `equery files foo`. This was a brilliant lesson! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
And since so many other people did this too, he just called a LOT of people stupid. Not good. Just said doing this is stupid not those people are stupid!! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On Saturday 19 April 2008, Mark Knecht wrote: The system is back to working now as far as I can tell. Without all of you I would hardly have known exactly how to proceed. With your help I made some headway. Not sure yet whether it will reboot successfully but at least I could emerge coreutils and mktemp successfully again. You don't need to emerge mktemp. It is now included in the coreutils package (hence the block message). -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
I have a little Mac Mini - my first attempt at Gentoo on a PowerPC - that I brought up this week. It was (is) working but I'm not using it for anything yet. Just playing around with the machine. Nothing serious. This morning I wasn't paying much attention and wanted to do an emerge -DuN world. The process had blocking issues: MacMini ~ # emerge -pv coreutils These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild U ] sys-devel/automake-1.10.1 [1.10] 897 kB [ebuild U ] sys-apps/coreutils-6.10-r1 [6.9-r1] USE=acl nls (-selinux) -static -vanilla% -xattr 3,670 kB [blocks B ] sys-apps/mktemp (is blocking sys-apps/coreutils-6.10-r1) [blocks B ] =sys-apps/coreutils-6.10 (is blocking sys-apps/mktemp-1.5) Total: 2 packages (2 upgrades, 2 blocks), Size of downloads: 4,566 kB so without any real thought I did an emerge -C coreutils and walked away. Well, that, it seems, was a *very* bad idea. Now nothing much works. There were some messages that had I been watching I would have stopped the process but I wasn't so there you go. Oops. Anyway, the machine is still up and running but I suspect that it might not reboot or allow logins if it did reboot. I'm unable to emerge anything right now. coreutils, as folks probably know, includes stuff that once gone pretty much stops the machine from being interesting or useful. Question: Is there a way to recover from this? It's not a huge issue even if I have to completely rebuild the machine. As I say this was mostly a Gentoo build on a lark to test out how the machine might work for a couple of different ideas - mythfrontend and a simple router. Everything was quick and dirty and there are a few things I might change anyway, but if I can get it working again I figure I should learn how. Thanks in advance, Mark -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On 11:27 Sat 19 Apr , Mark Knecht wrote: Question: Is there a way to recover from this? Try going into a LiveCD and either copy the coreutils from a stage, or try re-emerging it there. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On Saturday 19 April 2008, forgottenwizard wrote: On 11:27 Sat 19 Apr , Mark Knecht wrote: Question: Is there a way to recover from this? Try going into a LiveCD and either copy the coreutils from a stage, or try re-emerging it there. Of course if you want more detail check previous posts on this very topic: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/197609 -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
Why are you doing things without knowing about the consequences? Always ask before you are doing things which could be stupid!!! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On Saturday 19 April 2008, Justin wrote: Why are you doing things without knowing about the consequences? Always ask before you are doing things which could be stupid!!! Hindsight is a wonderful thing - but pretty useless in its timing. I don't know about the OP, but I usually discover that I did something stupid after the event . . . ;-) -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
Justin wrote: Why are you doing things without knowing about the consequences? Always ask before you are doing things which could be stupid!!! I think you're being a little harsh. :-) Usually, unmerging a package that is blocking another package has, in my limited experience, always solved the problem. I probably would have fallen victim to this had I not been reading the problems that others have had. No matter, my intention is not to start a war and this is too late for the people that have already caused themselves grief by removing coreutils. However, once I read the problems that others have encountered when they did this, I searched the forums. A post from earlier this year saved my butt! This is the command that was suggested and worked fine for me: emerge -C mktemp emerge -uavDNt world Hopefully, it will help others who have not yet become Gentoo gurus. Regards, Colleen. -- Registered Linux User #411143 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On Saturday 19 April 2008, Justin wrote: Why are you doing things without knowing about the consequences? Always ask before you are doing things which could be stupid!!! You know, shit happens. It shouldn't but it does. Like you aren't really paying attention being sidetracked, and the shit hits the fan. Happens.To all of us. Unless you are one of those who never make mistakes, never get sidetracked, never pay less than 100% attention, never assume where you are actually supposed to know,... The list goes on. The OP had a knee jerk reaction, did what had seemed insane on second thougt but didn't spent such. It happens. He actually axplained how it happened. That's human. Did you never make dire mistakes? Well, if you haven't you may keep throwing stones in a glasshouse. For the OP: There was a long thread about this just last week. Uwe -- Informal Linux Group Namibia: http://www.linux.org.na/ SysEx (Pty) Ltd.: http://www.SysEx.com.na/ -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
Uwe Thiem wrote: On Saturday 19 April 2008, Justin wrote: Why are you doing things without knowing about the consequences? Always ask before you are doing things which could be stupid!!! You know, shit happens. It shouldn't but it does. Like you aren't really paying attention being sidetracked, and the shit hits the fan. Happens.To all of us. Unless you are one of those who never make mistakes, never get sidetracked, never pay less than 100% attention, never assume where you are actually supposed to know,... The list goes on. The OP had a knee jerk reaction, did what had seemed insane on second thougt but didn't spent such. It happens. He actually axplained how it happened. That's human. Did you never make dire mistakes? Well, if you haven't you may keep throwing stones in a glasshouse. For the OP: There was a long thread about this just last week. Uwe And since so many other people did this too, he just called a LOT of people stupid. Not good. It didn't happen to me but only because I saw what other people did and that mktemp was the one to get rid of instead of coreutils. Otherwise, I would have been one of the stupid people too. Then again, I have backups. :-p Dale :-) :-) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 1:43 PM, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Uwe Thiem wrote: On Saturday 19 April 2008, Justin wrote: Why are you doing things without knowing about the consequences? Always ask before you are doing things which could be stupid!!! You know, shit happens. It shouldn't but it does. Like you aren't really paying attention being sidetracked, and the shit hits the fan. Happens.To all of us. Unless you are one of those who never make mistakes, never get sidetracked, never pay less than 100% attention, never assume where you are actually supposed to know,... The list goes on. The OP had a knee jerk reaction, did what had seemed insane on second thougt but didn't spent such. It happens. He actually axplained how it happened. That's human. Did you never make dire mistakes? Well, if you haven't you may keep throwing stones in a glasshouse. For the OP: There was a long thread about this just last week. Uwe And since so many other people did this too, he just called a LOT of people stupid. Not good. It didn't happen to me but only because I saw what other people did and that mktemp was the one to get rid of instead of coreutils. Otherwise, I would have been one of the stupid people too. Then again, I have backups. :-p Dale Thanks Dale, Uwe, and everyone else who responded. I really appreciate your support. Not worth a email to answer my detractor. He has his point of view. I suppose he's entitled. The system is back to working now as far as I can tell. Without all of you I would hardly have known exactly how to proceed. With your help I made some headway. Not sure yet whether it will reboot successfully but at least I could emerge coreutils and mktemp successfully again. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
On Samstag, 19. April 2008, Mark Knecht wrote: Question: Is there a way to recover from this? you should have busybox installed. Just create a symlink for every tool needed. ln -s bb ls and something like that. If even ln is gone, do it from busybox itself - it has everything needed built-in. After that, emerge coreutils (with the buildpkg option). This creates are tarball. Now check. Have been all symlinks replaced with the right tool? If yes. Goto end. Everything is ok. If not. Open tarball, cp the tools. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Messed up - how do I emerge coreutils once coreutils is gone?
I've found, keeping a backup kernel from my last update and loading busybox instead of the system has recued my ass on more then one occassion. Ironicly, I encounted this problem on both my Gentoo Desktop *and* my Gentoo Laptop roughtly a month to two months ago. At this time, there was no evidance of this issue yet and I blindly unmerged mktemp and all was well and never thought about it again till today when I saw this thread. Like I said, I just blindly unmerged mktemp w/ little though, I guess just seeing coreutils and quickly comparing it against mytemp kinda spoke for itself. Either way, your system is back, and that is all that matters. On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Samstag, 19. April 2008, Mark Knecht wrote: Question: Is there a way to recover from this? you should have busybox installed. Just create a symlink for every tool needed. ln -s bb ls and something like that. If even ln is gone, do it from busybo itself - it has everything needed built-in. After that, emerge coreutils (with the buildpkg option). This creates are tarball. Now check. Have been all symlinks replaced with the right tool? If yes. Goto end. Everything is ok. If not. Open tarball, cp the tools. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
