Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
You can try the Desktop GNUStep avec WindowMaker. On 19/08/2014 07:55, behrouz khosravi wrote: On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 2:47 PM, wraeth wra...@wraeth.id.au wrote: Also, I think your subject line, while a valiant effort, is the IT equivalent of don't eat the cookies while I'm gone :P Yea, I think there will no escape from that!
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On 18/08/2014 07:27, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am 17.08.2014 um 23:09 schrieb Alan McKinnon: On 17/08/2014 20:47, Henrique Lengler wrote: I don't know why KDE people are creating everything again. koffice, konqueror, a lot of things, that already exists in the linux world are being recreated by KDE. Whats the problem to use things that already exists? Why don't include software that is famous and liked by people insted of insist in their Kthings? You can't be serious right? Go back and find the original post from the founder of KDE as to why KDE was started at all. It's all about incoherent, mis-matched, ugly-when-bundled together apps that do not work in sympathy. This is still true today. Take kparts and kioslaves. KDE treats as much as possible as some sort of plugin that all KDE apps can share. This gives the user a fantastic degree of abstraction because anything that represents data can be a kpart. NFS mounts, smb shares, ssh, some weird random new thing - all of them show up in the file manager. Drag and drop works because of this. Consistent look and feel amongst KDE apps is probably the best reason for KDE's existence at all. But let's continue with your argument. What are these things that already exist? Nautilus? Why should KDE *not* implement a file manager? Should we ditch Dolphin in favour of Nautilus? Or something else perhaps? Should we drop Okular and tell everyone to just use xpdf instead? OMGF, have you actually *used* that piece of shit? Can you figure out *how* to use it? I can't - buttons all over the place in weird places xpdf is probably the best example of why KDE was started. I think I will stop now and wait for you to list the 100s of apps that already existed before related KDE apps were released, so we can see what these adequate replacements are. you know.. konqueror came before nautilus Yes, I know that :-) Most of KDE existed before most of Gnome... ...and a large reason why the gnome project started at all was concerns about the original Qt license terms. It was a licensing complaint, not a technical complaint Henrique's statement/complaint about KDE re-inventing the wheel holds very little water. In fact, if we switch it around and complain about the existence of g* apps when perfectly adequate k* apps already existed, we'd be closer to the actual truth. The reality is that people and devs are going to scratch their itch and code whatever they feel like. We live in the real world where people do whatever they want; the corporate fantasy where you only work on the approved projects/apps that some overlord says you can work on just doesn't exist at all. And this is why we in the FLOSS work have the magical wonderland of vast amounts of choice -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
May be DeadBeeF will suit your needs? I'm using it almost as is but it can be well configured to look similarly to your screenshot. But you will need to configure it yourself to look like screenshot. It has lyrics plugin and can be used with both GTK2 and GTK3. About analog of KRunner I don't know even what is this... Look DeadBeeF screens here (offsite): http://deadbeef.sourceforge.net/screenshots/0.6/screenshots.html. HTH 2014-08-18 7:54 GMT+03:00 Сергей protsero...@gmail.com: Guys, I'm looking for GTK-player, which looks like Amarok (http://i.imgur.com/Yjf80W7.png) and supports downloading and browsing Lyrics. And also for some analog of KRunner (launcher) which supports this player (searching it's collection, playing music). Thank you. -- Regards, Nikita
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Sunday 17 August 2014 23:09:24 Alan McKinnon wrote: Take kparts and kioslaves. KDE treats as much as possible as some sort of plugin that all KDE apps can share. This gives the user a fantastic degree of abstraction because anything that represents data can be a kpart. NFS mounts, smb shares, ssh, some weird random new thing - all of them show up in the file manager. Drag and drop works because of this. ...and I've just noticed these two: [N] kde-misc/akonadi-google (~20131213(4)): Google services integration in Akonadi [N] kde-misc/krunner-googletranslate (~0.1(4)): Krunner plug-in for Google translate service They could turn out to be a magic wand, or conversely give you the colly-wobbles. Has anyone here tried either of them? -- Regards Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Monday 18 Aug 2014 09:20:17 Peter Humphrey wrote: On Sunday 17 August 2014 23:09:24 Alan McKinnon wrote: Take kparts and kioslaves. KDE treats as much as possible as some sort of plugin that all KDE apps can share. This gives the user a fantastic degree of abstraction because anything that represents data can be a kpart. NFS mounts, smb shares, ssh, some weird random new thing - all of them show up in the file manager. Drag and drop works because of this. ...and I've just noticed these two: [N] kde-misc/akonadi-google (~20131213(4)): Google services integration in Akonadi [N] kde-misc/krunner-googletranslate (~0.1(4)): Krunner plug-in for Google translate service They could turn out to be a magic wand, or conversely give you the colly-wobbles. Has anyone here tried either of them? A user asked for their Google Calendar to be synchronised with Korganizer/Kontact and ISTR I enabled USE=google in kde-base/kdepim-runtime, which I think pulled in kde-misc/akonadi-google. A few months ago Google were using DAV for this purpose, but they decided to change their API. As a result older = 4.4.11.1-r2 KDEPIM versions broke and one had to move to the current versions of KDEPIM in order to use Google Calendar integration. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Sat, 2014-08-16 at 20:43 +0430, behrouz khosravi wrote: So can you please tell me why you have chosen a specific DE and not the other options ? thanks. I think the key argument for a DE is integration - all the k* apps built to use k* libraries and backends, allowing them to share data and resources easily; and all the gnome apps using gnome libraries, etc. The main differences I see between KDE and GNOME (aside from the GTK/Qt differences) are that KDE feels like a much more modular approach (while still allowing integration with backend services), whereas GNOME tends towards a one-piece uniform (sure you can theme it (with an external addon) but it's still gnome-shell) user-friendly (hide the buttons you can break it with) environment; and to be honest I like features of both. I think this is why it comes down to a matter of taste, because in the end it's a question of what you find suits your needs. I like the modularity and, I guess, the traditional feel of KDE; but kdepim loosing a large portion of my work email kind of made me balk at using it for a while, and my requirement for MS Exchange integration (not by choice) meant either a (non-free though nicely functional) plugin for Thunderbird ([0] for those interested) or switching to GNOME/Evolution (which, admittedly, has it's own issues, but hasn't eaten my mail yet). Besides, I'm very indecisive - give it six months I'll be back on KDE or enlightenment ;) Also, I think your subject line, while a valiant effort, is the IT equivalent of don't eat the cookies while I'm gone :P Hope this doesn't muddy things up too much! -- wraeth wra...@wraeth.id.au signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Mon, 2014-08-18 at 20:17 +1000, wraeth wrote: (which, admittedly, has it's own issues, but hasn't eaten my mail yet). Addendum: Possibly in a fit of irony, sending my last mail decided to stall evolution's back-end (the mail sent but the compose window was locked at sending and the connection threads were stuck). Also, fwiw, gnome-online-accounts has given me countless headaches (just last night it refused to connect to any mail servers because I apparently had no keyring with any passwords)... It's very much a balance between (expected) functionality, whether-it-works-or-crashes, and how many new words I can string together in a single sentence. But like I said, it hasn't eaten my mail, so I got that going for me :) -- wraeth wra...@wraeth.id.au signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 6:04 AM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 18 Aug 2014 09:20:17 Peter Humphrey wrote: On Sunday 17 August 2014 23:09:24 Alan McKinnon wrote: Take kparts and kioslaves. KDE treats as much as possible as some sort of plugin that all KDE apps can share. This gives the user a fantastic degree of abstraction because anything that represents data can be a kpart. NFS mounts, smb shares, ssh, some weird random new thing - all of them show up in the file manager. Drag and drop works because of this. ...and I've just noticed these two: [N] kde-misc/akonadi-google (~20131213(4)): Google services integration in Akonadi [N] kde-misc/krunner-googletranslate (~0.1(4)): Krunner plug-in for Google translate service They could turn out to be a magic wand, or conversely give you the colly-wobbles. Has anyone here tried either of them? A user asked for their Google Calendar to be synchronised with Korganizer/Kontact and ISTR I enabled USE=google in kde-base/kdepim-runtime, which I think pulled in kde-misc/akonadi-google. A few months ago Google were using DAV for this purpose, but they decided to change their API. As a result older = 4.4.11.1-r2 KDEPIM versions broke and one had to move to the current versions of KDEPIM in order to use Google Calendar integration. My problem with KDE and Google is that it seems like it doesn't work with application-specific passwords - or at least it didn't use to work with them. As a result I have to use two-factor login every time I log into KDE, which is painful enough that I usually just close the window and have stale data as a result. Perhaps this has been fixed. Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Mon, 2014-08-18 at 20:17 +1000, wraeth wrote: meant either a (non-free though nicely functional) plugin for Thunderbird ([0] for those interested) I also just realized I failed to include the link I mentioned... tonight is not my night... [0] https://exquilla.zendesk.com/home -- wraeth wra...@wraeth.id.au signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Monday 18 Aug 2014 11:38:58 Rich Freeman wrote: On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 6:04 AM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: A few months ago Google were using DAV for this purpose, but they decided to change their API. As a result older = 4.4.11.1-r2 KDEPIM versions broke and one had to move to the current versions of KDEPIM in order to use Google Calendar integration. My problem with KDE and Google is that it seems like it doesn't work with application-specific passwords - or at least it didn't use to work with them. As a result I have to use two-factor login every time I log into KDE, which is painful enough that I usually just close the window and have stale data as a result. Perhaps this has been fixed. I understand that Google offers two factor authentication (https://www.google.com/landing/2step/#tab=how-it-works) for its services, but if you have not signed up for it you only need a single google account passwd to login. KDEWallet/Akonadi saves this when you create the google calendar resource and doesn't ask for it again. Of course, KDEWallet will ask for the master passwd, but depending on how you have configured it this would only happen once per login session. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: I understand that Google offers two factor authentication (https://www.google.com/landing/2step/#tab=how-it-works) for its services, but if you have not signed up for it you only need a single google account passwd to login. KDEWallet/Akonadi saves this when you create the google calendar resource and doesn't ask for it again. Of course, KDEWallet will ask for the master passwd, but depending on how you have configured it this would only happen once per login session. I have signed up for it, and therefore KDE needs to either: 1. Prompt for a 2-factor code on every login and either use the cached google password or prompt for it as well. 2. Use a google application-specific password. This does not require a 2-factor code and operates fairly simliarly to how things work without 2-factor. I just tried re-connecting KDE with Google. It prompts you to login via a webpage and authorize the application. This login screen does not accept an application-specific password. I doubt it will persist beyond a single login, but we'll see... Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Monday 18 August 2014 11:04:03 Mick wrote: A user asked for their Google Calendar to be synchronised with Korganizer/Kontact and ISTR I enabled USE=google in kde-base/kdepim-runtime, which I think pulled in kde-misc/akonadi-google. Ah, so the Google resources mentioned are just calendar and contacts. I'll give it a go and see how I like it. Thanks. -- Regards Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 2:47 PM, wraeth wra...@wraeth.id.au wrote: Also, I think your subject line, while a valiant effort, is the IT equivalent of don't eat the cookies while I'm gone :P Yea, I think there will no escape from that!
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Saturday 16 August 2014 16:34:23 Poison BL. wrote: I have friends that vary between liking and tolerating Gnome 3, KDE, etc. and I can honestly say the only meaningful factor in deciding what they run has always boiled down to taste. Sit down with each for a week or three (as your main system, you won't get a real feel for them if you're not trying to get real work done through them), get them working as close to your preferences as you can, then judge which a) took the least work to get there and b) most closely match what you actually want from them. As an added bonus, poke around for a third thing to score based on... which gives you the best set of features you *weren't* looking for but *will* use. Sound advice. Personally I won't touch any of the gnome variants because of the way they hide everything they can from the user. Reminds me of Windows with its we- know-better-than-you attitude. And the last time I looked they wouldn't let me have a clear desktop, insisting on littering it with icons I never use. As Joshua says, though, it's all a matter of taste. -- Regards Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
140816 Henrique Lengler wrote: On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 02:31:10PM -0400, Philip Webb wrote: I do use Evince as a quick alternative to Okular for PDFs . Have you ever tried mupdf or xpdf ? Thanks for the reminder ! -- I do indeed have Mupdf installed, but had forgotten all about it : yes, it's quick easy for simple browsing. Evince has extra features, eg a side menu, but mb Mupdf is sufficient. Xpdf was dropped from Gentoo some time ago had awkward controls : IIRC there were security concerns upstream was dead. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
Thanks for the reminder ! -- I do indeed have Mupdf installed, but had forgotten all about it : yes, it's quick easy for simple browsing. Evince has extra features, eg a side menu, but mb Mupdf is sufficient. If you're looking for a more feature-complete solution, check out llpp[1], which is based on mupdf. As a long time zathura user that switched to to mupdf because zathura's newest version now depends on =x11-libs/gtk+-3.2:3, I found that mupdf had a few limitations and annoyances. I'm quite happy with llpp now and wouldn't want to go back. [1] - http://repo.or.cz/w/llpp.git -- Wolfgang Mueller / vehk.de / 0xc543cfce9465f573 That gum you like is going to come back in style. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 12:13 PM, behrouz khosravi bz.khosr...@gmail.com wrote: So can you please tell me why you have chosen a specific DE and not the other options ? So, this is more why I'm using KDE and not so much why I'm not using something else. Things I like about KDE: 1. Handles USB drive insertions/etc. 2. ioslaves like fish, smb, and so on. 3. Love the window manager 4. Love the configurability, especially with the unified notification/shortcut configuration design 5. krunner (more or less - it still feels quirky but I like it) 6. That dolphin mode that gives you a shell that follows the pwd. That is just nifty. Things I don't care about: 1. All the bundled apps. I don't use konqueror, koffice, and kdepim for the most part. I might use kdepim if I could get it to work with Google calendar/contacts without needing two-factor on every login. Things I dislike: 1. I disable nepomuk and its offspring. Things I think might be improveable: 1. The way it handles window grouping. I dislike a bazillion tabs, but I don't like the way it does grouping all that much either. Maybe I need to better grok activities/etc. I have run xfce at times. In particular I used to run it when accessing my desktop via NX since it was lightweight. I also used it exclusively during the early days of kde4, in part because the system I was running it on was underpowered. I'm open to other options. I am not at all wedded to the big kde apps, so if there is something else that offers more of the utility side I'm interested. However, everything about kde just seems so flexible, it is probably hard to beat for utility. Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On 17/08/2014 15:28, Rich Freeman wrote: On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 12:13 PM, behrouz khosravi bz.khosr...@gmail.com wrote: So can you please tell me why you have chosen a specific DE and not the other options ? So, this is more why I'm using KDE and not so much why I'm not using something else. Things I like about KDE: 1. Handles USB drive insertions/etc. 2. ioslaves like fish, smb, and so on. 3. Love the window manager 4. Love the configurability, especially with the unified notification/shortcut configuration design 5. krunner (more or less - it still feels quirky but I like it) 6. That dolphin mode that gives you a shell that follows the pwd. That is just nifty. #6 - it does? How do I activate that? Might be useful, I didn't even know there was such a fature Things I don't care about: 1. All the bundled apps. I don't use konqueror, koffice, and kdepim for the most part. I might use kdepim if I could get it to work with Google calendar/contacts without needing two-factor on every login. You can use sets to just get what you really use. The way I do it is I installed just the few -meta packages I want. True, I get more cruft than using sets, but with less work. I consider that an acceptable trade-off for me. Things I dislike: 1. I disable nepomuk and its offspring. nepomuk (and akanodi) and a bit of a personal embarrassment for me. In the beginning I advocated they were a good idea; and I still believe the idea is good for the average desktop in this brave new world. But the implementation - that often outweighs the idea. Nepomuk not so much (that one is pretty efficient) but definitely akonadi (that one sucks eggs) Things I think might be improveable: 1. The way it handles window grouping. I dislike a bazillion tabs, but I don't like the way it does grouping all that much either. Maybe I need to better grok activities/etc. Heh heh:-) I have that problem too. I forced myself to close tabs ruthlessly and rely on history. I now try and keep open only tabs I am using, not also tabs I might use again. Activities looks like a good idea, but I can't get them to work and feel right. Perhaps I should define what my activities actually mean to me better, this is far from simple. I have run xfce at times. In particular I used to run it when accessing my desktop via NX since it was lightweight. I also used it exclusively during the early days of kde4, in part because the system I was running it on was underpowered. I'm open to other options. I am not at all wedded to the big kde apps, so if there is something else that offers more of the utility side I'm interested. However, everything about kde just seems so flexible, it is probably hard to beat for utility. For pure engineering excellence it's hard to beat e19 and efl. However, raster and his team still have no qualms with ripping chunks of good out and replacing them on a whim, so perhaps not the most stable environment out there :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On 17/08/2014 15:28, Rich Freeman wrote: why I'm using KDE and not so much why I'm not using something else. ... 6. Dolphin mode that gives you a shell that follows the pwd. Have you tried Krusader ? -- it's been my heavy-load FM for a long time. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Sunday 17 Aug 2014 15:56:05 Alan McKinnon wrote: On 17/08/2014 15:28, Rich Freeman wrote: 6. That dolphin mode that gives you a shell that follows the pwd. That is just nifty. #6 - it does? How do I activate that? Might be useful, I didn't even know there was such a fature I use Konqueror (with the dolphin plugin) and F4 opens konsole in a separate window, or Settings/Show Terminal Emulator shows a terminal in the bottom 5th of Konqueror. My Dolphin doesn't offer the same, probably because I have only installed selected apps and a few meta packages, not the whole enchilada. Things I dislike: 1. I disable nepomuk and its offspring. nepomuk (and akanodi) and a bit of a personal embarrassment for me. In the beginning I advocated they were a good idea; and I still believe the idea is good for the average desktop in this brave new world. But the implementation - that often outweighs the idea. Nepomuk not so much (that one is pretty efficient) but definitely akonadi (that one sucks eggs) They are a good idea if you want to be able to index and search the whole of your PC for anything metatagged with foo and don't value the cost of electricity. The chances of me wanting to do this on my personal laptop are exceedingly rare, although once dementia sets in it could prove useful. :p For me this plus the shift from KDEPIM 3 to 4 was criminal destruction of value. I live in hope that one day KDE will take a hard long look at itself and go back to KDE 3 architecture; or that nepomuk, akonadi, redland, mysql and what-ever-else they have added can be switched off selectively without breaking the ability to search your address book and send an email; or that all this additional functionality will be so wonderfully streamlined that I will never ever know it is there. Given it's been 4 or 5 years now since this disaster happened I am not holding my breath. :-( Things I think might be improveable: 1. The way it handles window grouping. I dislike a bazillion tabs, but I don't like the way it does grouping all that much either. Maybe I need to better grok activities/etc. Heh heh:-) I have that problem too. I forced myself to close tabs ruthlessly and rely on history. I now try and keep open only tabs I am using, not also tabs I might use again. Activities looks like a good idea, but I can't get them to work and feel right. Perhaps I should define what my activities actually mean to me better, this is far from simple. I was meant to look into activities, so that I can explain it to some KDE users who also don't know what this is. I vaguely recall understanding the concept in the past, but never tried it out. Can you please explain in simple terms what it is and how it is meant to be used? For pure engineering excellence it's hard to beat e19 and efl. However, raster and his team still have no qualms with ripping chunks of good out and replacing them on a whim, so perhaps not the most stable environment out there :-) If you stay with testing versions already in portage, things are not as bad. I'm on enlightenment-0.17/0.18.8 and efl-1.9.5 and it's been quite stable. Last time I tried to emerge efl-1.10.1 it failed, so I am waiting for maintainers to catch up with the latest before I try again. BTW, since enlightenment trunk moved to git, I am not sure my enlightenment overlay syncs properly, because it doesn't bring up any message to inform me which packages have changed. Should I change something in layman to increase verbosity of git sync's? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday 17 Aug 2014 15:56:05 Alan McKinnon wrote: On 17/08/2014 15:28, Rich Freeman wrote: 6. That dolphin mode that gives you a shell that follows the pwd. That is just nifty. #6 - it does? How do I activate that? Might be useful, I didn't even know there was such a fature I use Konqueror (with the dolphin plugin) and F4 opens konsole in a separate window, or Settings/Show Terminal Emulator shows a terminal in the bottom 5th of Konqueror. My Dolphin doesn't offer the same, probably because I have only installed selected apps and a few meta packages, not the whole enchilada. F4 is the default shortcut in dolphin. It is under control-panels-terminal. It runs as a panel/pane as the menu suggests. Things I think might be improveable: 1. The way it handles window grouping. I dislike a bazillion tabs, but I don't like the way it does grouping all that much either. Maybe I need to better grok activities/etc. Heh heh:-) I have that problem too. I forced myself to close tabs ruthlessly and rely on history. I now try and keep open only tabs I am using, not also tabs I might use again. Activities looks like a good idea, but I can't get them to work and feel right. Perhaps I should define what my activities actually mean to me better, this is far from simple. I was meant to look into activities, so that I can explain it to some KDE users who also don't know what this is. I vaguely recall understanding the concept in the past, but never tried it out. Can you please explain in simple terms what it is and how it is meant to be used? Well, the concept is that maybe you work from home using the same PC, so you have a work activity and a home activity. It is a bit like virtual desktops on steroids as far as I can tell. My problem is that I don't ever exclusively do just one thing at a time. I never really utilized virtual desktops much either for this reason. Maybe I'd benefit from forcing myself to do it more, but... -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
140817 Wolfgang Mueller wrote: Thanks for the reminder ! -- I do indeed have Mupdf installed, but had forgotten all about it : yes, it's quick easy for simple browsing. Evince has extra features, eg a side menu, but mb Mupdf is sufficient. If you're looking for a more feature-complete solution, check out llpp, which is based on mupdf. I found that mupdf had a few limitations and annoyances. I'm quite happy with llpp now and wouldn't want to go back. I emerged it after several compile errors due to missing USE flags, but it looks rather experimental has a long list of commands, most of which I'm unlikely to use. Okular is ok for heavier work Mupdf is quick'n'simple for glancing around PDFs from the CLI. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
I don't know why KDE people are creating everything again. koffice, konqueror, a lot of things, that already exists in the linux world are being recreated by KDE. Whats the problem to use things that already exists? Why don't include software that is famous and liked by people insted of insist in their Kthings? -- Henrique Lengler https://gitorious.org/~henriqueleng
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
Am 17.08.2014 um 20:47 schrieb Henrique Lengler: I don't know why KDE people are creating everything again. koffice, konqueror, a lot of things, that already exists in the linux world are being recreated by KDE. Whats the problem to use things that already exists? Why don't include software that is famous and liked by people insted of insist in their Kthings? hm, tell me, what was there when Konqueror was created? Please do. Maybe also try to spend some times on 'Konqueror is just a shell around different kparts', if you like. And while you are at it, you do know the history of webkit, don't you?
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
Howdy, on Enlightenment here, love the customisability mostly and it's slickness - i.e. can load tiling module that switches behaviour (have never used it myself though, can't say how it compares to awm or i3) krunner equivalent is start everything module and resembles gnome-do i prefer to use pcmanfm/thunar than the e file manager and nice as terminology is i'm still using terminator the big question really is why are you looking for a DE - what is offered in it that you don't already have? while i understand from the lengthy update you want all K apps or all GTK to minimise the update - i myself mix and match where i have need from my own experience a DE gives you 1. easy hotplug devices i.e. usb disks (or you can emerge dbus,polkit and udisks and add policy rules manually) 2. session management, i.e. you can switch users without logging out 3. bundled apps / libraries 4. killer features such as the K activities 5. can anyone add to this list ?
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 08:57:36PM +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: hm, tell me, what was there when Konqueror was created? Please do. Maybe also try to spend some times on 'Konqueror is just a shell around different kparts', if you like. And while you are at it, you do know the history of webkit, don't you? Oh you a right man. I spoke without knowing, sorry by this. Everything happen exactly unlike i said. -- Henrique Lengler https://gitorious.org/~henriqueleng
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
Am 17.08.2014 um 20:57 schrieb thegeezer: Howdy, on Enlightenment here, love the customisability mostly and it's slickness - i.e. can load tiling module that switches behaviour (have never used it myself though, can't say how it compares to awm or i3) krunner equivalent is start everything module and resembles gnome-do i prefer to use pcmanfm/thunar than the e file manager and nice as terminology is i'm still using terminator the big question really is why are you looking for a DE - what is offered in it that you don't already have? while i understand from the lengthy update you want all K apps or all GTK to minimise the update - i myself mix and match where i have need from my own experience a DE gives you 1. easy hotplug devices i.e. usb disks (or you can emerge dbus,polkit and udisks and add policy rules manually) 2. session management, i.e. you can switch users without logging out 3. bundled apps / libraries 4. killer features such as the K activities 5. can anyone add to this list ? apps that actually work with each other.
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On 17/08/14 20:16, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am 17.08.2014 um 20:57 schrieb thegeezer: from my own experience a DE gives you 1. easy hotplug devices i.e. usb disks (or you can emerge dbus,polkit and udisks and add policy rules manually) 2. session management, i.e. you can switch users without logging out 3. bundled apps / libraries 4. killer features such as the K activities 5. can anyone add to this list ? apps that actually work with each other. honestly i've never had issues cross app -- copy/paste of text or files from dolphin to konqueror have never been an issue. do you have an example of what would not work ?
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On 17/08/14 20:54, thegeezer wrote: On 17/08/14 20:16, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: apps that actually work with each other. honestly i've never had issues cross app -- copy/paste of text or files from dolphin to konqueror have never been an issue. *ahem* of course i meant a wider range of apps than two kde file managers ! do you have an example of what would not work ?
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On 17/08/2014 20:57, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am 17.08.2014 um 20:47 schrieb Henrique Lengler: I don't know why KDE people are creating everything again. koffice, konqueror, a lot of things, that already exists in the linux world are being recreated by KDE. Whats the problem to use things that already exists? Why don't include software that is famous and liked by people insted of insist in their Kthings? hm, tell me, what was there when Konqueror was created? Please do. Maybe also try to spend some times on 'Konqueror is just a shell around different kparts', if you like. And while you are at it, you do know the history of webkit, don't you? It was the core of IE6, wasn't it? /says me with a naughty twinkle in my eye -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On 17/08/2014 20:47, Henrique Lengler wrote: I don't know why KDE people are creating everything again. koffice, konqueror, a lot of things, that already exists in the linux world are being recreated by KDE. Whats the problem to use things that already exists? Why don't include software that is famous and liked by people insted of insist in their Kthings? You can't be serious right? Go back and find the original post from the founder of KDE as to why KDE was started at all. It's all about incoherent, mis-matched, ugly-when-bundled together apps that do not work in sympathy. This is still true today. Take kparts and kioslaves. KDE treats as much as possible as some sort of plugin that all KDE apps can share. This gives the user a fantastic degree of abstraction because anything that represents data can be a kpart. NFS mounts, smb shares, ssh, some weird random new thing - all of them show up in the file manager. Drag and drop works because of this. Consistent look and feel amongst KDE apps is probably the best reason for KDE's existence at all. But let's continue with your argument. What are these things that already exist? Nautilus? Why should KDE *not* implement a file manager? Should we ditch Dolphin in favour of Nautilus? Or something else perhaps? Should we drop Okular and tell everyone to just use xpdf instead? OMGF, have you actually *used* that piece of shit? Can you figure out *how* to use it? I can't - buttons all over the place in weird places xpdf is probably the best example of why KDE was started. I think I will stop now and wait for you to list the 100s of apps that already existed before related KDE apps were released, so we can see what these adequate replacements are. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:09:24PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: You can't be serious right? Go back and find the original post from the founder of KDE as to why KDE was started at all. It's all about incoherent, mis-matched, ugly-when-bundled together apps that do not work in sympathy. This is still true today. Take kparts and kioslaves. KDE treats as much as possible as some sort of plugin that all KDE apps can share. This gives the user a fantastic degree of abstraction because anything that represents data can be a kpart. NFS mounts, smb shares, ssh, some weird random new thing - all of them show up in the file manager. Drag and drop works because of this. Consistent look and feel amongst KDE apps is probably the best reason for KDE's existence at all. But let's continue with your argument. What are these things that already exist? Nautilus? Why should KDE *not* implement a file manager? Should we ditch Dolphin in favour of Nautilus? Or something else perhaps? Should we drop Okular and tell everyone to just use xpdf instead? OMGF, have you actually *used* that piece of shit? Can you figure out *how* to use it? I can't - buttons all over the place in weird places xpdf is probably the best example of why KDE was started. I think I will stop now and wait for you to list the 100s of apps that already existed before related KDE apps were released, so we can see what these adequate replacements are. Hi, I already said sorry for my stupid argumentation. -- Henrique Lengler
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On 17/08/2014 18:19, Mick wrote: For me this plus the shift from KDEPIM 3 to 4 was criminal destruction of value. I live in hope that one day KDE will take a hard long look at itself and go back to KDE 3 architecture; or that nepomuk, akonadi, redland, mysql and what-ever-else they have added can be switched off selectively without breaking the ability to search your address book and send an email; or that all this additional functionality will be so wonderfully streamlined that I will never ever know it is there. Given it's been 4 or 5 years now since this disaster happened I am not holding my breath. :-( In all honesty, I believe the semantic desktop idea was an experiment worth pursuing. Some things you just can't tell if they will work out in advance. You have to try. Correction: You have to be *brave*, then try. And KDE did that. I believe the entire KDE4 branch was incredibly brave - someone had a vision and had the balls to try, to rip out the problematic and hard-to-maintain bits and actually release something new. You could successfully argue that akonadi is a failed experiment in that it doesn't seem to make the individual user's life any easier. But akonadi wasn't just an exercise in stuffing everything into mysql because they could - akonadi aimed at putting a standard wrapper around PIM data. It's really a classic middle-ware idea which storage backends in the rear, possibly many clients in front and akonadi in the middle. The details of how to do the middle seem vastly more complex than anyone thought, and this is actually a good thing. A valuable lesson has been learned - devs now know a great deal more about what not to do and why. Same with nepomuk - it started as an EU-sponsored concept of a semantic desktop and KDE was brave enough to put themselves out there as a major DE willing to give it a shot. Valuable lessons were learned here as well, so whereas nepomuk may or may not survive, the lessons will always remain for those willing to look (yeah, I know about folk doomed to repeat, but you get the idea) Incidentally, much of KDE's fancy back end stuff *can* be disabled; it just isn't especially recommended and Gentoo devs don't support it too much. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On 17/08/2014 19:21, Rich Freeman wrote: 6. That dolphin mode that gives you a shell that follows the pwd. That is just nifty. #6 - it does? How do I activate that? Might be useful, I didn't even know there was such a fature I use Konqueror (with the dolphin plugin) and F4 opens konsole in a separate window, or Settings/Show Terminal Emulator shows a terminal in the bottom 5th of Konqueror. My Dolphin doesn't offer the same, probably because I have only installed selected apps and a few meta packages, not the whole enchilada. F4 is the default shortcut in dolphin. It is under control-panels-terminal. It runs as a panel/pane as the menu suggests. View - Panels - Terminal That'll teach me for not actually *looking* into what the menus provide :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
Am 17.08.2014 um 23:09 schrieb Alan McKinnon: On 17/08/2014 20:47, Henrique Lengler wrote: I don't know why KDE people are creating everything again. koffice, konqueror, a lot of things, that already exists in the linux world are being recreated by KDE. Whats the problem to use things that already exists? Why don't include software that is famous and liked by people insted of insist in their Kthings? You can't be serious right? Go back and find the original post from the founder of KDE as to why KDE was started at all. It's all about incoherent, mis-matched, ugly-when-bundled together apps that do not work in sympathy. This is still true today. Take kparts and kioslaves. KDE treats as much as possible as some sort of plugin that all KDE apps can share. This gives the user a fantastic degree of abstraction because anything that represents data can be a kpart. NFS mounts, smb shares, ssh, some weird random new thing - all of them show up in the file manager. Drag and drop works because of this. Consistent look and feel amongst KDE apps is probably the best reason for KDE's existence at all. But let's continue with your argument. What are these things that already exist? Nautilus? Why should KDE *not* implement a file manager? Should we ditch Dolphin in favour of Nautilus? Or something else perhaps? Should we drop Okular and tell everyone to just use xpdf instead? OMGF, have you actually *used* that piece of shit? Can you figure out *how* to use it? I can't - buttons all over the place in weird places xpdf is probably the best example of why KDE was started. I think I will stop now and wait for you to list the 100s of apps that already existed before related KDE apps were released, so we can see what these adequate replacements are. you know.. konqueror came before nautilus
[gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
Hi. I have been using the gnome for some time(in other distro's) and I had no complaint. However after switching to gentoo I installed i3 and it is very great. I really love it, but I was considering to install a DE too. Before jumping to gnome I wanted to evaluate my options. I have heard that It is a matter of taste but think it is not all of the story. I have heard that the gentoo community is more inclined toward KDE too. So KDE must have some advantage that makes people like it's taste! So can you please tell me why you have chosen a specific DE and not the other options ? thanks.
RE: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
xfce4 here, very light weight, customizable, boots up instantly for me.I use nfsv3 and netboot many box's with it as a shared read only root Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 20:43:29 +0430 Subject: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !) From: bz.khosr...@gmail.com To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Hi. I have been using the gnome for some time(in other distro's) and I had no complaint. However after switching to gentoo I installed i3 and it is very great. I really love it, but I was considering to install a DE too. Before jumping to gnome I wanted to evaluate my options. I have heard that It is a matter of taste but think it is not all of the story. I have heard that the gentoo community is more inclined toward KDE too. So KDE must have some advantage that makes people like it's taste! So can you please tell me why you have chosen a specific DE and not the other options ? thanks.
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Saturday 16 Aug 2014 17:13:29 behrouz khosravi wrote: Hi. I have been using the gnome for some time(in other distro's) and I had no complaint. However after switching to gentoo I installed i3 and it is very great. I really love it, but I was considering to install a DE too. Before jumping to gnome I wanted to evaluate my options. I have heard that It is a matter of taste but think it is not all of the story. I have heard that the gentoo community is more inclined toward KDE too. So KDE must have some advantage that makes people like it's taste! So can you please tell me why you have chosen a specific DE and not the other options ? thanks. I use Enlightenment (e17) almost exclusively these days, having spent many years running a heavily modified Fluxbox. I prefer e17 because it probably is even more light footed than fluxbox, but more modern in look and feel, without the need to manually configure everything. A few gadgets on the desktop, favourite apps launched by right click menu and my personal choice of wallpapers and shelf configuration, is all I needed to change from the default set up. On a couple of PCs mostly used by other users, I have installed KDE, because it is better suited to their needs. They want/like/use a lot of plasmoids and don't mind waiting longer for the desktop to launch. They are also keen on the many KDE applications. I preferred KDE3 to the current KDE4 with its semantic desktop and KDEPIM slow-speed-train-crash, but clearly I don't have an audience with current KDE devs to expect them to listen to my desires. :p I have used briefly Gnome and the Cinnamon desktop on Linux Mint and Ubuntu's Unity, but I didn't appreciate any of them. Probably a matter of personal taste I guess, Gnome and derivatives never sat comfortably with me. Somehow I found that their settings were a bit obscure or removed from the end user. XFCE, LXDE and openbox were lightweight and fast, but for the little I tried them out I found them somewhat depleted of features and functionality. Perhaps if I persevered I would have grown to like them more. So, it's e17 for me, but YMMV. :-) -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
xfce4 here, very light weight, customizable, boots up instantly for me. I use nfsv3 and netboot many box's with it as a shared read only root Is it as customizable as KDE ? I have installed KDE on a Debian machine and I like it's configurability.
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 I've been enjoying LXDE for a long time now. I have installed it along with XFCE (my machines are low on resources*). I can't explain why, but I like LXDE better than XFCE. I've also tried KDE - looks great but as I mentioned I have limited computing power, used GNOME 2 a bit. Recently I have installed and tested i3 wm and liked it but imho tiling wms are best when used on 'big' displays. I don't use it because none of my displays is wider than 1024 px. * I doubt that I'd settle for a more demanding DE even if I had a lot of resources because, you know, possession of great amount of ram for example doesn't justify memory wastage. The situation gets worse when you need to compile great amounts of c++ code. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJT754+AAoJEK64IL1uI2haz94IAJlOksbLO+WaGldLlmFWpqLW sCrMPsrF4ZY/bkQL6AvyFGhSuOFd2aRl447zQcOX4ZVFcfgZVIUD+NqnVC5Tc9gT OoqgtdElGvI05Xkfwrtr//WNbXuDtugY+0NAeQHLs5hLtwhCdSXfcJGn0zY6sdQ+ zYSFM/2ROmNw3rO3L8bIKJLOZnlhW0XwBjhFzdERXDh1kfbukE1ZCstsTyUw+Ndx ykj3cGyDml/xi/0Ct2FKj8PeV9igzGzGjbwpbB8rPkysLATzQ5LbceuRlCDVwk4X i3U24X6Yy8AF/MQmC1y4iP3Jc74UVP/3GkC9yJfA45Yevu/TOL0gKzvbW3bc7ug= =Hn0i -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 10:22 PM, Сергей protsero...@gmail.com wrote: I use KDE, because it has biggest amount of functions KDE Connect, KRunner and Amarok have no match in GTK-world. If they had, I would use Xfce. well it seems that Xfce is now really a big player. I guess that it's number of users is quite comparable to gnome and KDE.
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
I never liked any DE. And i hate the KDE things like konsole, konqueror, ktorrent principally when you try to install these in a non KDE system. -- Henrique Lengler https://gitorious.org/~henriqueleng
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
140816 behrouz khosravi wrote: So can you please tell me why you have chosen a specific DE and not the other options ? I've used Fluxbox for a long time am completely satisfied ; it's very customisable, fast reliable ; I start it with 'startx' ; the only problem is that it's not good at automatically starting apps, but I've defined Alt-Fn keys to start the regulars that's very quick. I use Apwal -- not nearly well enough known -- via R-click to call up an array of quick-start icons on an empty desktop ; I create + update the regular menu with Vim open it via Alt-Space, which allows me to use it even on a full desktop ; I have long organised my activities via 10 desktops. I like KDE apps have a dozen installed ; updating is fairly quick I don't do it for every release, most of which don't affect me. I used Xfce for a short time, but dropped it when 4.2 was slow to appear ; Fluxbox proved to be a better alternative. I never liked Gnome, its apps, its interface or its multitude of deps ; I've never installed or used it, but I've seen it from the outside ; I do use Evince as a quick alternative to Okular for PDFs . The great attraction of Gentoo is that you get to build your own system can mix + match as much as you please. HTH. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
Am 16.08.2014 um 18:13 schrieb behrouz khosravi: Hi. I have been using the gnome for some time(in other distro's) and I had no complaint. However after switching to gentoo I installed i3 and it is very great. I really love it, but I was considering to install a DE too. Before jumping to gnome I wanted to evaluate my options. I have heard that It is a matter of taste but think it is not all of the story. I have heard that the gentoo community is more inclined toward KDE too. So KDE must have some advantage that makes people like it's taste! So can you please tell me why you have chosen a specific DE and not the other options ? thanks. well, back in the KDE 1.1, 2.1,2.2 and Gnome up to 1.4.2 days both were nice and I used both. Switching betwen the two. Then came Gnome 2.0 And I never went back to Gnome. Seriously, Gnome 1.4.2 was the best gnome ever.
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 02:31:10PM -0400, Philip Webb wrote: I do use Evince as a quick alternative to Okular for PDFs . Have you ever tried mupdf? or xpdf? why install a GNOME app when you don't use it? -- Henrique Lengler https://gitorious.org/~henriqueleng
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 12:13 PM, behrouz khosravi bz.khosr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. I have been using the gnome for some time(in other distro's) and I had no complaint. However after switching to gentoo I installed i3 and it is very great. I really love it, but I was considering to install a DE too. Before jumping to gnome I wanted to evaluate my options. I have heard that It is a matter of taste but think it is not all of the story. I have heard that the gentoo community is more inclined toward KDE too. So KDE must have some advantage that makes people like it's taste! So can you please tell me why you have chosen a specific DE and not the other options ? thanks. I've bounced between quite a few, both straight WMs and full featured DEs over the years. I liked Gnome pre-3, mostly due to the fact that it typically 'just worked' and the bulkiest programs I ran being primarily GTK based. While I liked Gnome Shell when it was in early development, there were quite a few decisions made (*notably the distinct aversion to allowing meaningful customization) on that end on the way to Gnome 3 that I don't find it very appealing as it stands. I ran and enjoyed KDE about a decade ago, but hadn't really touched it since until recently, and it's just too heavy to suit my needs (most of my systems are lightweight laptops/netbooks anymore). In the end, once I ran across Blackbox, then Fluxbox, my interest in 'full featured' DEs was pretty much killed. My favorite WM when I'm running a truly stripped down system is actually ratpoison, while I tend to run LXDE (and toying with LXQT now) on most of my systems for the sake of giving a more 'normal' usage paradigm (primarily if I need other people to be able to use the system). LXDE gives just enough trinkets for things like battery status, multiple desktop management, coherent configuration interfaces for themes and such, and a proper menu while otherwise staying out of the way. I've never really used xfce or e17 much, but both seem to be pretty well loved by their users. I still bounce between LXDE, Ratpoison, and Fluxbox fairly often (and as proof of how much I liked Blackbox and Fluxbox, I run an offshoot of those on Windows as a shell replacement). I have friends that vary between liking and tolerating Gnome 3, KDE, etc. and I can honestly say the only meaningful factor in deciding what they run has always boiled down to taste. Sit down with each for a week or three (as your main system, you won't get a real feel for them if you're not trying to get real work done through them), get them working as close to your preferences as you can, then judge which a) took the least work to get there and b) most closely match what you actually want from them. As an added bonus, poke around for a third thing to score based on... which gives you the best set of features you *weren't* looking for but *will* use. -- Poison [BLX] Joshua M. Murphy
Re: [gentoo-user] why you've chosen your desktop environment? (no war !)
在 2014年8月16日 星期六 21:52:04，Сергей 写道： I use KDE, because it has biggest amount of functions KDE Connect, KRunner and Amarok have no match in GTK-world. If they had, I would use Xfce. Yeah, KRunner is what makes me even unable to use Windows. Also, kdevelop is the best IDE ever created, even Visual Studio has no match if you don't Visual AssistX installed. If you really adopted to KDE, no other DE will ever be in you sight.
