[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
On 10/02/2009 09:00 PM, Harry Putnam wrote: waltw41...@gmail.com writes: On 10/02/2009 01:56 PM, Harry Putnam wrote: Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK addressing? The gnome desktop allows transparent browsing of network shares by typing the URL network:/// in the Location bar of nautilus, which I'm guessing I very similar to the konqueror mechanism. Before you answer please note that: I know about ssh I know about fuse I know about mount -tcifs I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line. cd //host/share Well, it sounds like you know more about the subject than I do, but do you know about smbmount that comes as part of samba? Seems to me like that's what you're asking for. I had forgotten about smbmount but that too is not the same as being able to cd around with cd //host/share... Hm. I'm wondering if you come from a Windows background and are new to the world of *ix? That's the only way I can make sense of the paragraph above. In order to cd to a file system (like smbfs) that file system must first be 'mounted' on a mount-point e.g. /mnt/ or /shares/ or wherever you choose to put it. That mounting can be automated and transparent to the user, as Dirk said, but it must be done somehow before you can cd to it. Just like partitons like /root, /var, /tmp, /usr, /home and the rest must be mounted before they can be used by anyone, including the OS. This is done automatically during bootup so you don't need to do it yourself. Same with network shares. I hope I'm not misunderstanding and giving you an unneeded lecture :o)
[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
walt w41...@gmail.com writes: [...] Well, it sounds like you know more about the subject than I do, but do you know about smbmount that comes as part of samba? Seems to me like that's what you're asking for. I had forgotten about smbmount but that too is not the same as being able to cd around with cd //host/share... Hm. I'm wondering if you come from a Windows background and are new to the world of *ix? I started my computer life on linux 1996.. only moved to windows for some things when editing video (I like the adobe tools... and linux just doesn't have anything remotely comparable.) I admit having a very thick skull, but I also have quite a lot of time on linux and solaris...so a little has soaked into even my thick skull. It took me quite a while to learn much about windows. And it still seems horribly awkward... especially when moving around in the file system. Its so much slower and time wasting to have to navigate by clickety clack in something like the navigation windows that open for on most applications.. I most windows applications, if you want to load a new file... the navigation starts at My Documents... a place where just about nothing I do should be kept. So you must navigate to wherever it is over and over, while working on windows. I do know a few short cuts to use but still the basic fact is that overtime a very lot of time goes into just moving around on winows. .. That's the only way I can make sense of the paragraph above. Maybe because you left out most of it? I had forgotten about smbmount but that too is not the same as being able to cd around with cd //host/share smbmount adds another layer of complexity... and something more to umount or maintain in mounted state... would also add a few more characters to each address. In order to cd to a file system (like smbfs) that file system must first be 'mounted' on a mount-point e.g. /mnt/ or /shares/ or wherever you choose to put it. That mounting can be automated and transparent to the user, as Dirk said, but it must be done somehow before you can cd to it. Hence my comment smbmount adds another layer of complexity... Hence my comment would also add a few more characters to each address. Someone has to configure it... and manintain it thru a new install. If or when that comes up. It may not be terribly difficult... but it does need to be done. Just like partitons like /root, /var, /tmp, /usr, /home and the rest must be mounted before they can be used by anyone, including the OS. This is done automatically during bootup so you don't need to do it yourself. Same with network shares. Its done automatically only if you make that happen by some configuration. It may be worth it though... and like I said.. I'd forgotten about smbmount and really have never gotten envolved with automounting things...other than one major nfs share keep on a solaris zfs server. automounting is somewhat new in linux... it was not commonly used when I started out. I hope I'm not misunderstanding and giving you an unneeded lecture :o) Its always a good thing to have the basics hammered into your head. You might notice that most boxing matches are won by really basic techniques like keeping that jab out there. Or slipping punches that would really do damage if you didn't know how to move with it when you can. So no harm revisiting basic stuff. Maybe you didn't notice my reference to cygwin bash on windows being able to navigate via UNC. It takes only creating shares to offer thru samba, for cygwin bash to be able to navigate them with cd //host/share. No mounting, or if there is, I didn't have to specifically configure it. Smb is native to windows... so maybe that is the reason.
[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
On 10/03/2009 05:55 AM, Paul Hartman wrote: On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Harry Putnamrea...@newsguy.com wrote: Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK addressing? Before you answer please note that: I know about ssh I know about fuse I know about mount -tcifs I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line. cd //host/share I don't now how many of you have noticed but bash shell from cygwin on windows has that capability built in. Or maybe it comes from windows env. You can do `cd //linux-host/share' in a bash terminal If command line smb/UNK is not on without lots of diddling around, what about some file managing tool that does it like Konqueror does. Emacs is said to be able to do this using tramp but I haven't ever gotten it to work. Konqueror can do it... but I don't run kde, and don't really want to fiddle with it in that direction. Midnight Commander can do it. Nifty, I didn't know that. Amazing what mc can do. Couple of points that are not obvious in case Harry wants to try mc: it needs to be compiled with the samba USE flag set; and you access your samba shares using the Right or Left dropdown menus at the top of the mc window. This function of mc (being an old app) I'm guessing is what inspired the similar functions in konqueror and nautilus, but I'm not sure about the order of events. Thanks for the tip.
[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com writes: Emacs is said to be able to do this using tramp but I haven't ever gotten it to work. Konqueror can do it... but I don't run kde, and don't really want to fiddle with it in that direction. Midnight Commander can do it. Haa, there is an old time tool... what do I need to use in `eix' to find it. `eix midnight' fails as does `eix commander' Does it have a different name in portage? I did find a vimcommander... maybe that will have the functionality too, since it says it has a commander style interface.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Am 03.10.2009 17:31, schrieb Harry Putnam:
Haa, there is an old time tool... what do I need to use in `eix' to
find it.
`eix midnight' fails as does `eix commander'
metat...@darkstation ~ $ eix -S midnight
* app-misc/mc
Available versions: 4.6.1-r4 4.7.0_pre1 (~)4.7.0_pre2
(~)4.7.0_pre2-r1 {7zip X chdir +edit gpm ncurses nls samba (+)slang unicode}
Homepage:http://www.midnight-commander.org
Description: GNU Midnight Commander is a text based file
manager
Greetings
Sebastian
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Am Samstag 03 Oktober 2009 17:27:19 schrieb Harry Putnam: I started my computer life on linux 1996.. automounting is somewhat new in linux... it was not commonly used when I started out. Hmm, Not commonly used, don't know. First versions of autofs date back to April 97, amd is much older, I think. So no, automounting is NOT new in Linux, it's there for over a decade now. Bye... Dirk
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Am Samstag 03 Oktober 2009 17:31:28 schrieb Harry Putnam: `eix midnight' fails as does `eix commander' Does it have a different name in portage? No, it has the same name as everywhere: mc ;-) Bye... Dirk
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Hi, I really wonder about this discussion. This tool can do it, that tool can do it, the other one, too. WTF? Just mount the damn share and _EVERY_ tool can access it. So what? Bye... Dirk
[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
On 10/03/2009 08:27 AM, Harry Putnam wrote: ... It takes only creating shares to offer thru samba, for cygwin bash to be able to navigate them with cd //host/share. No mounting, or if there is, I didn't have to specifically configure it. Smb is native to windows... so maybe that is the reason. Right. Windows does indeed mount filesystems but does it without asking you, much like linux mounts /root without asking. So, I'm thinking you might be very interested in trying Paul's suggested 'mc', which has its own built-in command line of sorts, although it's not actually a full bash prompt IIUC. Depend on what you need to do while visiting a share, it might be perfect for your purpose. (See Paul's reply.)
[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Dirk Heinrichs dirk.heinri...@online.de writes: Hmm, Not commonly used, don't know. First versions of autofs date back to April 97, amd is much older, I think. So no, automounting is NOT new in Linux, it's there for over a decade now. At nearly 70, I can call a decade `fairly recent'. I have to beg to differ here... I don't mean your statements about when it appeared... Linux is much older than 1997... and as I said I started a little before that... At that time there were not many users at all not to mention users using automounting. I'd hazard a guess that total users was not much over 150,000 or so... just an idle guess though. The newbies like me were definitely not using it linux then took much more config than it does today... even on gentoo today. You could easily spend 2 or more wks getting X up... or even getting it to boot. Building your own kernel was well out of the grasp of newbies at that time. So in that atmosphere... its not true that automount was in common use.
[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Dirk Heinrichs dirk.heinri...@online.de writes: Hi, I really wonder about this discussion. This tool can do it, that tool can do it, the other one, too. WTF? No problem, don't read it. Just mount the damn share and _EVERY_ tool can access it. So what? Settle down bub... you're not in a barroom here. Ease up.
[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Dirk Heinrichs dirk.heinri...@online.de writes: Am Samstag 03 Oktober 2009 17:31:28 schrieb Harry Putnam: `eix midnight' fails as does `eix commander' Does it have a different name in portage? No, it has the same name as everywhere: mc ;-) Dirk, Your wisacre additions are really starting to wear on me. Have you been on a binge or something... and need a few days rest. If it had the same name everywhere... Paul Hartman wouldn't have called it `Midnight Commander' would he. So it has at least 2 names Jesus bud, lighten up or quit the thread, if it getting to be too much for you.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Am Samstag 03 Oktober 2009 20:10:30 schrieb Harry Putnam: Dirk Heinrichs dirk.heinri...@online.de writes: Hmm, Not commonly used, don't know. First versions of autofs date back to April 97, amd is much older, I think. So no, automounting is NOT new in Linux, it's there for over a decade now. At nearly 70, I can call a decade `fairly recent'. I have to beg to differ here... I don't mean your statements about when it appeared... Linux is much older than 1997... and as I said I started a little before that... At that time there were not many users at all not to mention users using automounting. I'd hazard a guess that total users was not much over 150,000 or so... just an idle guess though. I wouldn't even dare to guess :) The newbies like me were definitely not using it linux then took much more config than it does today... even on gentoo today. You could easily spend 2 or more wks getting X up... or even getting it to boot. Yeah, I know. I started with Linux roughly one or two years before you did. Building your own kernel was well out of the grasp of newbies at that time. Then there must have been two types of newbies ;) So in that atmosphere... its not true that automount was in common use. As I wrote I don't know. I used it, but again I wouldn't dare to guess how many others did. Bye... Dirk
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Am Samstag 03 Oktober 2009 20:16:48 schrieb Harry Putnam: No, it has the same name as everywhere: mc ;-) Dirk, Your wisacre additions are really starting to wear on me. Have you been on a binge or something... and need a few days rest. 1) You've seen the smiley? 2) You got the package name, didn't you? Bye... Dirk
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Am Samstag 03 Oktober 2009 20:14:16 schrieb Harry Putnam: Dirk Heinrichs dirk.heinri...@online.de writes: I really wonder about this discussion. This tool can do it, that tool can do it, the other one, too. WTF? No problem, don't read it. That's really hard to do :) Bye... Dirk
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 10:31 AM, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/03/2009 05:55 AM, Paul Hartman wrote: On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Harry Putnamrea...@newsguy.com wrote: Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK addressing? Before you answer please note that: I know about ssh I know about fuse I know about mount -tcifs I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line. cd //host/share I don't now how many of you have noticed but bash shell from cygwin on windows has that capability built in. Or maybe it comes from windows env. You can do `cd //linux-host/share' in a bash terminal If command line smb/UNK is not on without lots of diddling around, what about some file managing tool that does it like Konqueror does. Emacs is said to be able to do this using tramp but I haven't ever gotten it to work. Konqueror can do it... but I don't run kde, and don't really want to fiddle with it in that direction. Midnight Commander can do it. Nifty, I didn't know that. Amazing what mc can do. Couple of points that are not obvious in case Harry wants to try mc: it needs to be compiled with the samba USE flag set; and you access your samba shares using the Right or Left dropdown menus at the top of the mc window. This function of mc (being an old app) I'm guessing is what inspired the similar functions in konqueror and nautilus, but I'm not sure about the order of events. Thanks for the tip. You can also use mc's special notation for connecting from the shell prompt inside the program. I highly recommend RTFM since I don't know how to do it specifically and only tried it once a long time ago, so this may be completely wrong. :) But from memory it was _something_ similar to this: cd /#smb:hostname/share You can also connect to things like FTP and fish (ssh/scp) with similar notation from within mc. Check for mc's VFS in the docs or google to see the actual instructions.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Harry Putnam rea...@newsguy.com wrote:
Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com writes:
Emacs is said to be able to do this using tramp but I haven't ever
gotten it to work.
Konqueror can do it... but I don't run kde, and don't really want to
fiddle with it in that direction.
Midnight Commander can do it.
Haa, there is an old time tool... what do I need to use in `eix' to
find it.
`eix midnight' fails as does `eix commander'
Does it have a different name in portage?
I did find a vimcommander... maybe that will have the functionality
too, since it says it has a commander style interface.
It's tricky since the program name is Midnight Commander but the
package executable name is mc. You can use the -S switch for eix
to make it search descriptions as well as the package name when
something's pkgname is not obvious. For example:
$ eix -S midnight.commander
[I] app-misc/mc
Available versions: 4.6.1-r4 4.7.0_pre1 (~)4.7.0_pre2
(~)4.7.0_pre2-r1 {7zip X chdir +edit gpm ncurses nls samba (+)slang
unicode}
Installed versions: 4.7.0_pre2-r1(12:24:04 AM 09/06/2009)(X edit
gpm nls samba slang -chdir)
Homepage:http://www.midnight-commander.org
Description: GNU Midnight Commander is a text based file manager
:)
[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
walt w41...@gmail.com writes: [...] Nifty, I didn't know that. Amazing what mc can do. Couple of points that are not obvious in case Harry wants to try mc: it needs to be compiled with the samba USE flag set; and you access your samba shares using the Right or Left dropdown menus at the top of the mc window. Thanks... I never liked mc even in the old days... always preferring the cmd line or emacs, But that aside yes it does work. And just for your own info you can cd around direct from the cmd line too... just need the right syntax... and get prompted for a passwd. (cd /#smb:host/share) But the interface is so far removed from a common shell prompt and seems really crippled by comparison, that it would take more than a little diddling around to get some real use out of it. Appears not to have cmd memory or readline type history at the cmd prompt... at least not by default or with some reasonable key press. Also it appears not to be able to execute commands on non-local fs. After cd'ing into a remote machine and being prompted for passwd... if I type `ls' enter it brings up a red error saying Error! Cannot execute commands on non-local filesystems. Maybe all this can be configured away I don't think I want to mess with it really... but yes it does have the capability.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Harry Putnam wrote: Dirk Heinrichs dirk.heinri...@online.de writes: Hmm, Not commonly used, don't know. First versions of autofs date back to April 97, amd is much older, I think. So no, automounting is NOT new in Linux, it's there for over a decade now. At nearly 70, I can call a decade `fairly recent'. Quite honestly, your age is irrelevant in this context. Linux is much older than 1997... Not at all. Linus made his first announcement in August 1991. The first files appeared on the Internet in September 1991. It wasn't an operating system at that point. The newbies like me were definitely not using it linux then took much more config than it does today... even on gentoo today. You could easily spend 2 or more wks getting X up... or even getting it to boot. Hmm. Most of the people who used (actually, played with because it wasn't a usable operating system until much later) Linux in the early days came from Minix. Remember that? Newbies to Linux were not newbies to computers and operating systems. Far from it, most were pretty adept DOS hackers. Building your own kernel was well out of the grasp of newbies at that time. Definitely not. So in that atmosphere... its not true that automount was in common use. You seem to have entirely forgotten what Linux actually was in the 1990s. It was actually a hacker's paradise. There were NO newbies in the sense of people who were new to computers using Linux. The very nature of Linux users in those days was that they were experimental, had some (if not considerable) knowledge and were keen to try any new gizmo that came along and, if there wasn't one, develop their own. Indeed, that's exactly how and why Linux is where it is now. FWIW, I have been involved with computers one way or another since 1969 (a few months before Man set foot upon the moon). Be lucky, Neil http://www.neiljw.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Harry Putnam wrote: If it had the same name everywhere... Paul Hartman wouldn't have called it `Midnight Commander' would he. So it has at least 2 names Jesus bud, lighten up or quit the thread, if it getting to be too much for you. It has one name - Midnight Commander - BUT is know just about everywhere by the abbreviation mc. If you want it in ANY distribution, you look for mc. I think you are the one who needs a rest - especially as you are totally blind to smilies. :P Be lucky, Neil http://www.neiljw.com
[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Neil Walker n...@ep.mine.nu writes: Linux is much older than 1997... Not at all. [...] I really meant unix... where most of linux cmds and base tools comes from. But as people do unix/linux is often thought of as one kind of thing. [...] Hmm. Most of the people who used (actually, played with because it wasn't a usable operating system until much later) Linux in the early days came from Minix. Remember that? Newbies to Linux were not newbies to computers and operating systems. Far from it, most were pretty adept DOS hackers. [...] You seem to have entirely forgotten what Linux actually was in the 1990s. It was actually a hacker's paradise. There were NO newbies in the sense of people who were new to computers using Linux. The very nature of Linux users in those days was that they were experimental, had some (if not considerable) knowledge and were keen to try any new gizmo that came along and, if there wasn't one, develop their own. Indeed, that's exactly how and why Linux is where it is now. No I didn't forget... I knew nothing whatever about a computer in the 90s you are talking about. My only knowledge of a computer came from things like seeing the girl at the unemployment office bring up my records. And not even all unemployment offices had computers yet. My first encounter with a computer or home computing started in 1996. Right from scratch. I think you've got this a little back assward.. lots of commentary with `quite honestly, `definitely not' and other sorts of comments indicating a deep knowledge are a bunch of hooey. You may remember some things... but you do not have a good picture of what the lower echelons was like. That hardcore of experimenters that are the folks who really put linux on the map was growing rapidly.. Just as the new user base was. In the yrs I mentioned (96 upward) newbies were flocking to linux. Some old timers complained about it bitterly on linux News/Mail groups. How the linux network was getting watered down with a bunch of numbskulls and etc. FWIW, I have been involved with computers one way or another since 1969 (a few months before Man set foot upon the moon). Then you would have had quite a different view of the lower levels of the linux movement. And it was a movement then... Yes there were a hard core of quite adept hackers... many of them were very willing to offer help to newcomers back then. All the main mail groups or newsgroups had a cadre of true experts... much like today. That core of experienced grew quickly too. There were lots of meetings around the country of the `lugs' where newer people brought machines and more experienced users helped them get an OS on it and running. You don't hear that anymore, the OSs are much easier to install and configure. One guy from Alaska... whos name I have forgotten... took me in hand for several wks... walked me thru lots of stuff off the lists. and even by phone with me in California, It's really a shame I've forgotten his name... kind of embarrassing, because he spent a good bit of time coaching me for a while. But the influx was already growing quickly as can be seen from the huge user base that happened in those 10-12 yrs. So at least from 96 on your picture ain't cutting it. I'd guess the user base expanded several hundred percent from say 95 to 2005. To say there weren't linux newbies is silly. Not to mention wrong.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
Am Samstag 03 Oktober 2009 20:59:50 schrieb Harry Putnam: I never liked mc even in the old days... So you actually knew mc before? (cd /#smb:host/share) Again, another tool, another syntax. Once you simply mount the share, the path will be the same no matter what tool you use to browse it. So why not do the simple thing? Bye... Dirk
[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
On 10/02/2009 01:56 PM, Harry Putnam wrote: Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK addressing? Before you answer please note that: I know about ssh I know about fuse I know about mount -tcifs I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line. cd //host/share Well, it sounds like you know more about the subject than I do, but do you know about smbmount that comes as part of samba? Seems to me like that's what you're asking for. BTW, what is UNK addressing?
[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
walt w41...@gmail.com writes: On 10/02/2009 01:56 PM, Harry Putnam wrote: Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK addressing? Before you answer please note that: I know about ssh I know about fuse I know about mount -tcifs I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line. cd //host/share Well, it sounds like you know more about the subject than I do, but do you know about smbmount that comes as part of samba? Seems to me like that's what you're asking for. I had forgotten about smbmount but that too is not the same as being able to cd around with cd //host/share smbmount adds another layer of complexity... and something more to umount or maintain in mounted state... would also add a few more characters to each address. BTW, what is UNK addressing? Sorry ...s/K/C/ Universal Naming Convention... I always think of the sound `UNK' when I think about that style of address...(//host/share), it just slipped into print, but I guess I can't hide the fact that I am largely braindead too.
