Re: [gentoo-user] Monitor goes off on boot
On 3/8/06, Iain Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The gentoo live cd? I didn't know it started gnome. the new 2006.0 boots gnome and you can start graphical installer now for the problem, press ctrl+alt+F1 there you can kill configure your xorg with xorgconfig when done restart X with /etc/init.d/xdm restart it should work important part of this thread? -- Iain Buchanan iain at netspace dot net dot au Star Trek Lives! -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Cheers, Ghaith -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Monitor goes off on boot
A.R.S. KA9QLQ Alvin Koffman schreef: Well I'm stumped. Every time I boot the live cd it gets to where Gnome should start then the monitor goes off. Does any one know what video drivers the live cd uses? Alvin For the best jerky you've ever had go to http://alk.jerkydirect.com/ My home page http://ka9qlq.tripod.com This PC is windows free with Mepis Linux 3.4-3 http://www.mepis.org/ 1(747)632-4973 SIP Get Gizmo 1 cent per minuet calling http://www.gizmoproject.com/ What video card do you have and what drivers? I've had similar problems (not with this graphical live CD, since I installed Gentoo before it existed, but with X applications and X itself), because I have an ATI card. ATI cards do do that (just shut down the monitor) if 1) using the wrong drivers (radeon when card model is one above the 9(2/5?)50 (sorry, can't remember which model is the stopper for the Open Source drivers), and/or 2) DGA is enabled for the fglrx drivers (this will do exactly what you described; it has many times for me, and it is just one of the many PITAs with the fglrx drivers). The thing is-- in theory, I have no evidence to support this-- that GNOME (I am a GNOME user as opposed to a KDE user, though I don't use either of those DE's regularly or first during a new install due to their size) appears to require 3D support be working in order to load properly. Or at least, the hardware acceleration must be working if you're using drivers that supposedly support said acceleration. As I said, I have no evidence for this /per se/; it's just my theory based on experience. If you're using the 'vesa' drivers (which don't support 3D), I betcha GNOME will load fine (at least it always does for me), but as soon as you load drivers in your X config that are supposed to support hardware acceleration/OpenGL/3D, GNOME will break if that support is broken (even though, afaik, no basic operation of GNOME actually uses 3D-- that's why this is a theory and seemingly rather a crackpot one, but it's the only theory that fits my experience). So I would suggest first changing your xorg.conf to load the vesa drivers, which should load (that's what they're for, default drivers that should always be able to load and display), then editing your xorg.conf to resolve the obvious problem that it must have. Some option or driver causes your video card to stop sending a signal. I know that =9600 ATI cards do this when DGA is enabled on the fglrx drivers, and also that =9(2/5?)50 cards do strange things when using the radeon drivers which don't support these models for hardware acceleration, as opposed to the fglrx drivers which do-- but the LiveCDs will tend to (in my experience) recognize my 9800SE as an ATI card and load the radeon drivers incorrectly because the fglrx drivers that the card needs are not open source... and the radeon drivers don't actually work properly for my card. But you may have a different brand of card, or it could be a different option causing this. You might want to copy /var/log/Xorg.0.log to a backup location before you try to start X with the vesa drivers (since the vesa drivers should load correctly, it will overwrite the log with the errors and you need to know what they are, so backup the log with the errors first, is that I'm suggesting). But the first thing we'd have to know is what is the video card, and what are the loaded drivers; then we can work on things like what video options you set in the kernel, and what you've got for modelines and the like in xorg.conf (though I doubt that the issue is modelines, since that just knocks you out fo X completely with a no screens found error, not kills your signal between video card and monitor while leaving X actually running). Anyway, hope this helps. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Monitor goes off on boot
i know ati drivers suck but i booted the live cd on my x300se card so i guess it's not really the problem.. maybe the screen don't support the resolution set by default (1024 x 768 was the resolution the live cd set by default on my pc and it worked great) On 3/8/06, Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A.R.S. KA9QLQ Alvin Koffman schreef: Well I'm stumped. Every time I boot the live cd it gets to where Gnome should start then the monitor goes off. Does any one know what video drivers the live cd uses? Alvin For the best jerky you've ever had go to http://alk.jerkydirect.com/ My home page http://ka9qlq.tripod.com This PC is windows free with Mepis Linux 3.4-3 http://www.mepis.org/ 1(747)632-4973 SIP Get Gizmo 1 cent per minuet calling http://www.gizmoproject.com/ What video card do you have and what drivers? I've had similar problems (not with this graphical live CD, since I installed Gentoo before it existed, but with X applications and X itself), because I have an ATI card. ATI cards do do that (just shut down the monitor) if 1) using the wrong drivers (radeon when card model is one above the 9(2/5?)50 (sorry, can't remember which model is the stopper for the Open Source drivers), and/or 2) DGA is enabled for the fglrx drivers (this will do exactly what you described; it has many times for me, and it is just one of the many PITAs with the fglrx drivers). The thing is-- in theory, I have no evidence to support this-- that GNOME (I am a GNOME user as opposed to a KDE user, though I don't use either of those DE's regularly or first during a new install due to their size) appears to require 3D support be working in order to load properly. Or at least, the hardware acceleration must be working if you're using drivers that supposedly support said acceleration. As I said, I have no evidence for this /per se/; it's just my theory based on experience. If you're using the 'vesa' drivers (which don't support 3D), I betcha GNOME will load fine (at least it always does for me), but as soon as you load drivers in your X config that are supposed to support hardware acceleration/OpenGL/3D, GNOME will break if that support is broken (even though, afaik, no basic operation of GNOME actually uses 3D-- that's why this is a theory and seemingly rather a crackpot one, but it's the only theory that fits my experience). So I would suggest first changing your xorg.conf to load the vesa drivers, which should load (that's what they're for, default drivers that should always be able to load and display), then editing your xorg.conf to resolve the obvious problem that it must have. Some option or driver causes your video card to stop sending a signal. I know that =9600 ATI cards do this when DGA is enabled on the fglrx drivers, and also that =9(2/5?)50 cards do strange things when using the radeon drivers which don't support these models for hardware acceleration, as opposed to the fglrx drivers which do-- but the LiveCDs will tend to (in my experience) recognize my 9800SE as an ATI card and load the radeon drivers incorrectly because the fglrx drivers that the card needs are not open source... and the radeon drivers don't actually work properly for my card. But you may have a different brand of card, or it could be a different option causing this. You might want to copy /var/log/Xorg.0.log to a backup location before you try to start X with the vesa drivers (since the vesa drivers should load correctly, it will overwrite the log with the errors and you need to know what they are, so backup the log with the errors first, is that I'm suggesting). But the first thing we'd have to know is what is the video card, and what are the loaded drivers; then we can work on things like what video options you set in the kernel, and what you've got for modelines and the like in xorg.conf (though I doubt that the issue is modelines, since that just knocks you out fo X completely with a no screens found error, not kills your signal between video card and monitor while leaving X actually running). Anyway, hope this helps. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Cheers, Ghaith -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Monitor goes off on boot
Ghaith Hachem schreef: On 3/8/06, Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What video card do you have and what drivers? I've had similar problems (not with this graphical live CD, since I installed Gentoo before it existed, but with X applications and X itself), because I have an ATI card. ATI cards do do that (just shut down the monitor) if 1) using the wrong drivers (radeon when card model is one above the 9(2/5?)50 (sorry, can't remember which model is the stopper for the Open Source drivers), and/or 2) DGA is enabled for the fglrx drivers (this will do exactly what you described; it has many times for me, and it is just one of the many PITAs with the fglrx drivers). i know ati drivers suck but i booted the live cd on my x300se card so i guess it's not really the problem.. I wouldn't bet on that... just because the liveCD boots and loads what seems to be X doesn't mean that the settings that you ultimately wound up with for X are sufficient and correct to load a full desktop environment. The installer has limited needs (so really doesn't need more than the failsafe vesa drivers), and a full DE has many more requirements. Also, the x cards are particularly problematic in terms of X drivers at this time. maybe the screen don't support the resolution set by default (1024 x 768 was the resolution the live cd set by default on my pc and it worked great) Well, you might have a point there (no way to know without more detail), but again, the symptoms of that don't necessarily fit the conditions you're experiencing. It's true that most modern monitors will shut off to save themselves if told to operate in parameters out of their range (for example if I told my monitor to run at 1600x1200 when it only does 1280x1024 with difficulty). But if the resolution is set by default, then auto detection should have told the x setup what the correct parameters for your monitor are and the default setting should be within the correct range. Did you change something, and now the default resolution is *not* 1024x768 (which ought to work for almost any monitor, certainly a current flatpanel)? And secondly, as I said, the usual result of X asking a monitor to display at a higher resolution than the monitor says it can do is *not* signal loss-- it's either a no screens found error (if the higher resolution is the only setting available), or display at a much lower resolution than you asked for (if lower settings are available, X will try them all until it finds one that fit within the monitor's stated parameters of vsync and hres). Signal loss, in my experience (which is admittedly limited, but since most people never experience signal loss at all-- which is as it should be-- even limited experience seems valuable), indicates a very specific range of conditions that might cause it, and they are almost all related to the video card and its drivers and settings, rather than anything to do with the monitor itself (after all, what do you think sends or doesn't send a signal to the monitor :-) ?). What does your Xorg log say (/var/log/Xorg.0.log), and what are your settings for the monitor and video device in /etc/X11/xorg.conf? Also, bizarre as it sounds. is this a new card, or have you been swapping things around inside your case before this install? You might check the seating and connections of the card. Although your situation is slightly different from mne-- you have a flat panel which presumably uses the DVI connector natively, whereas I have a CRT and must use the included DVI-to-VGA converter plug-- I have noticed that several times after modifying something internal to the box itself (whether related to the video card or not), I often had to open the box a second time and reseat the card and/or the monitor connection, which resolved errors I would suddenly be getting for no reason. So you might want to check that as well, though perhaps the connectors have been redesigned since my 9800SE came out (and so are not loosened at the slightest little thing). Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Monitor goes off on boot
On 3/8/06, Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, the x cards are particularly problematic in terms of X drivers at this time. yep the card sucks i'll get an nvidia as soon as i can maybe the screen don't support the resolution set by default (1024 x 768 was the resolution the live cd set by default on my pc and it worked great) Well, you might have a point there (no way to know without more detail), but again, the symptoms of that don't necessarily fit the conditions you're experiencing. I'm not experiencing anything with the live cd it's working great for me you probably got me and the main poster confused.. i was just saying that it worked on my ATI card (probably coz it loads default drivers) -- Cheers, Ghaith -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Monitor goes off on boot
On 3/8/06, Ghaith Hachem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i know ati drivers suck but i booted the live cd on my x300se card so i guess it's not really the problem.. maybe the screen don't support the resolution set by default (1024 x 768 was the resolution the live cd set by default on my pc and it worked great) The livecd uses the VESA drivers, that should support most if not all cards, its a generic driver, so, what you are getting is probably a VSync problem, Xorg tries to probe the monitor for supported resolutions and H/VSyncs, what happened must be that it is using a Vsync not supported by your monitor. Use CTRL+ALT+F1, edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf, try setting the VSync to lower values (60 for instance), also try setting a lower resolution (800x600 should work). Man xorg.conf for details. X -configure can try to create a xorg.conf probing your devices (it usually misses my mouse). Check the X System How To at www.gentoo.org to see how configure xorg. Keep in mind that you can use the command-line installer instead, or follow the instructions and do it by hand (I consider the later a great learning experience that can save your ass sometimes). On 3/8/06, Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A.R.S. KA9QLQ Alvin Koffman schreef: Well I'm stumped. Every time I boot the live cd it gets to where Gnome should start then the monitor goes off. Does any one know what video drivers the live cd uses? Alvin For the best jerky you've ever had go to http://alk.jerkydirect.com/ My home page http://ka9qlq.tripod.com This PC is windows free with Mepis Linux 3.4-3 http://www.mepis.org/ 1(747)632-4973 SIP Get Gizmo 1 cent per minuet calling http://www.gizmoproject.com/ What video card do you have and what drivers? I've had similar problems (not with this graphical live CD, since I installed Gentoo before it existed, but with X applications and X itself), because I have an ATI card. ATI cards do do that (just shut down the monitor) if 1) using the wrong drivers (radeon when card model is one above the 9(2/5?)50 (sorry, can't remember which model is the stopper for the Open Source drivers), and/or 2) DGA is enabled for the fglrx drivers (this will do exactly what you described; it has many times for me, and it is just one of the many PITAs with the fglrx drivers). The thing is-- in theory, I have no evidence to support this-- that GNOME (I am a GNOME user as opposed to a KDE user, though I don't use either of those DE's regularly or first during a new install due to their size) appears to require 3D support be working in order to load properly. Or at least, the hardware acceleration must be working if you're using drivers that supposedly support said acceleration. As I said, I have no evidence for this /per se/; it's just my theory based on experience. If you're using the 'vesa' drivers (which don't support 3D), I betcha GNOME will load fine (at least it always does for me), but as soon as you load drivers in your X config that are supposed to support hardware acceleration/OpenGL/3D, GNOME will break if that support is broken (even though, afaik, no basic operation of GNOME actually uses 3D-- that's why this is a theory and seemingly rather a crackpot one, but it's the only theory that fits my experience). So I would suggest first changing your xorg.conf to load the vesa drivers, which should load (that's what they're for, default drivers that should always be able to load and display), then editing your xorg.conf to resolve the obvious problem that it must have. Some option or driver causes your video card to stop sending a signal. I know that =9600 ATI cards do this when DGA is enabled on the fglrx drivers, and also that =9(2/5?)50 cards do strange things when using the radeon drivers which don't support these models for hardware acceleration, as opposed to the fglrx drivers which do-- but the LiveCDs will tend to (in my experience) recognize my 9800SE as an ATI card and load the radeon drivers incorrectly because the fglrx drivers that the card needs are not open source... and the radeon drivers don't actually work properly for my card. But you may have a different brand of card, or it could be a different option causing this. You might want to copy /var/log/Xorg.0.log to a backup location before you try to start X with the vesa drivers (since the vesa drivers should load correctly, it will overwrite the log with the errors and you need to know what they are, so backup the log with the errors first, is that I'm suggesting). But the first thing we'd have to know is what is the video card, and what are the loaded drivers; then we can work on things like what video options you set in the kernel, and what you've got for modelines and the like in xorg.conf (though I doubt that the issue is modelines, since that just knocks you out fo X completely with a no screens found error, not kills
Re: [gentoo-user] Monitor goes off on boot
Daniel da Veiga schreef: The livecd uses the VESA drivers, that should support most if not all cards Yes, I'm sure that's true-- but what I'm wondering is, does the LiveCD use the VESA drivers *no matter what* is returned by autodectection of the video hardware? My question here is because I have installed a lot of distros, and the thing is that as soon as autodetection got an ATI product ID back from the video hardware, I automatically got the radeon drivers. And for me, the radeon drivers are bad news. So I would always have to manually specify vesa anyway (after X broke). I would actually suspect that the same thing happens to nVidia users under most circumstances (they load the nv driver rather than vesa), but of course the nVidia open-source drivers actually work properly, so this is likely not a problem for them. So I'm originally asking if the card might be subject to this condition (since I have experienced signal loss errors due to misconfiguration of an ATI card, which misconfiguration is in some cases due to hardware autodetection mishandling the card when found). so, what you are getting is probably a VSync problem, Xorg tries to probe the monitor for supported resolutions and H/VSyncs, what happened must be that it is using a Vsync not supported by your monitor. That certainly would explain things, but how broken would autodetection then be (or the monitor's EDID?? support) if it couldn't even detect/report its own Vsync range? Not that you might not be right, but that's really scary-- scarier than my theory of autodetect working properly, but mishandling what it detects. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Monitor goes off on boot
On 3/8/06, Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel da Veiga schreef: The livecd uses the VESA drivers, that should support most if not all cards Yes, I'm sure that's true-- but what I'm wondering is, does the LiveCD use the VESA drivers *no matter what* is returned by autodectection of the video hardware? Well, it would be the safest way. But now that you mentioned it, I only tested in my machine (ATI, old one) and another server (NVidia, FX5200), both loaded without Direct Rendering and using VESA (but that could be result of failed autodetection). I think I'll ask at the devs list. My question here is because I have installed a lot of distros, and the thing is that as soon as autodetection got an ATI product ID back from the video hardware, I automatically got the radeon drivers. And for me, the radeon drivers are bad news. So I would always have to manually specify vesa anyway (after X broke). Now, a simple howto on getting your screen back after a video problem would be nice, wouldn't it? Maybe HOWTO setup a generic video xorg.conf. I would actually suspect that the same thing happens to nVidia users under most circumstances (they load the nv driver rather than vesa), but of course the nVidia open-source drivers actually work properly, so this is likely not a problem for them. So I'm originally asking if the card might be subject to this condition (since I have experienced signal loss errors due to misconfiguration of an ATI card, which misconfiguration is in some cases due to hardware autodetection mishandling the card when found). so, what you are getting is probably a VSync problem, Xorg tries to probe the monitor for supported resolutions and H/VSyncs, what happened must be that it is using a Vsync not supported by your monitor. That certainly would explain things, but how broken would autodetection then be (or the monitor's EDID?? support) if it couldn't even detect/report its own Vsync range? Not that you might not be right, but that's really scary-- scarier than my theory of autodetect working properly, but mishandling what it detects. Yeah, you're right, I was so certain that VESA was default but now I'll check the livecd files to see how it works (when I have time for it). Pretty scary indeed. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Daniel da Veiga Computer Operator - RS - Brazil -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V- PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Monitor goes off on boot
On 3/8/06, A.R.S. KA9QLQ Alvin Koffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Daniel da Veiga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, it would be the safest way. But now that you mentioned it, I only tested in my machine (ATI, old one) and another server (NVidia, FX5200), both loaded without Direct Rendering and using VESA (but that could be result of failed autodetection). I think I'll ask at the devs list. The fx 5200 is what I have but live cd kills the display. Well, NVidia opensource drivers are know for reliability, that excludes a weird driver/device configuration, VESA or NV, both drivers should work OK. Holly's theory, That certainly would explain things, but how broken would autodetection then be (or the monitor's EDID?? support) if it couldn't even detect/report its own Vsync range? Its my best bet by now. I would try another monitor and see what happens. May be a hardware problem after all... Alvin For the best jerky you've ever had go to http://alk.jerkydirect.com/ My home page http://ka9qlq.tripod.com This PC is windows free with Mepis Linux 3.4-3 http://www.mepis.org/ 1(747)632-4973 SIP Get Gizmo 1 cent per minuet calling http://www.gizmoproject.com/ -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Daniel da Veiga Computer Operator - RS - Brazil -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V- PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Monitor goes off on boot
Well I'm stumped. Every time I boot the live cd it gets to where Gnome should start then the monitor goes off. Does any one know what video drivers the live cd uses? Alvin For the best jerky you've ever had go to http://alk.jerkydirect.com/ My home page http://ka9qlq.tripod.com This PC is windows free with Mepis Linux 3.4-3 http://www.mepis.org/ 1(747)632-4973 SIP Get Gizmo 1 cent per minuet calling http://www.gizmoproject.com/ -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Monitor goes off on boot
On Tue, 2006-03-07 at 22:18 -0800, A.R.S. KA9QLQ Alvin Koffman wrote: Well I'm stumped. Every time I boot the live cd it gets to where Gnome should start then the monitor goes off. Does any one know what video drivers the live cd uses? The gentoo live cd? I didn't know it started gnome. Did I miss some important part of this thread? -- Iain Buchanan iain at netspace dot net dot au Star Trek Lives! -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
