Re: [gentoo-user] perfect IDE
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Andreas Niederl ric...@gmx.net wrote: Hi, Andrei Hanganu wrote: helo group, i've been trying the past 2-3 years to find the most usable and nice ide for c/c++ code writing. I've been through vim/vim + plugins/emacs + different modes/anjuta/kdevelop/codeblocks/eclipse/netbeans ... every single one of them has at least one drawback. I'm thinking the more I get to know Vim and the available plugins, the more it becomes like an IDE to me. I guess the same is true for Emacs. My advice would be to take on of those or any other open IDE and learn and extend them to the point that it's perfect for you. I can only give the same advice. I'm mainly an Emacs user, so I think I can fill in the parts you've missed below :-) Oh and (to everybody) Emacs is one thing especially: customizable. You have to work a bit with Emacs to really understand this (because most editors/programs are customizable these days). But enough advertising ;-) In short words, i am looking for an ide that can do this: - syntax highlighting - concurrent editing of multiple files (splitting) - tabs or buffer list - file browser - regex search/replace Both Vim and Emacs can do these basic features. Vim even provides a mechanism for saving and restoring editing sessions. A file browser is provided by ECB and I have never encountered any minibuffer issues you've mentioned below. I also never encountered any incompatibilities between different customizations and I'm running a lot. Of course you can't use two that do the same thing, but I think that's clear (and usually the last one overrides the first, so no issues there). Restoring and saving sessions is, of course, possible, too :-), see here[1] - autocomplete (on the fly, not on demand, and maybe smart? - identify structures/classes ) Haven't tried it yet, but for Vim word_complete.vim[1] seems to be what you're looking for. You should also have a look at Omnicompletion. As Emacs has hooks for nearly everything it should be doable with it as well. It's possible in Emacs, and how to set it up see here[2], the package you'll see in the link, CEDET, is a complete IDE framework and not just auto-completion (but you can use only parts of it!), it's used for example in ECB and JDEE[3] - project manager Don't know about that but it would be nice to have simpler project specific settings for Emacs/Vim. For Emacs there's EDE, it's part of CEDET. - symbol list/browser current editing buffer That's pretty much ctags/etags, maybe cscope. And in addition you can browse this stuff with CEDET, see[1] for details. - flexible build options that include scons, not just makefile You can put the following in ~/.vimrc: autocmd BufEnter ~/path/to/project/* set makeprg=scons In Emacs you can use whatever you want to build your project, because there is no classic restriction called project like all these new IDEs have, but if you want there's EDE. - code folding (with detection of blocks) Vim does it[2]; Emacs seems to have some kind of FoldingMode according to Google. Yes, there is, it's called hs-minor-mode. - lightweight/ergonomic interface (i dislike space being occupied by the bar that displays the line numbers, with a padding of 10px for example) Both of them are very customisable in this regard. If you've customized Emacs alot, and for Vim that probably true too, the startup is a bit slower, but you have several possibilities here: 1) start Emacs as server (that's just a normal Emacs but clients can attach) and edit your files by running emacsclient and in Emacs 23 (not yet released) you can daemonize Emacs and attach as many instances of Emacs as you want (even from ttys and X at the same time!) 2) start Emacs -Q (no customizations will be loaded) 3) use a vanilla Vim (which I do often when I'm editing config files) i don't desire gdb or valgrind integration, but would be a + Emacs features gdb integration and there's Clewn[3] for GVim. As for me, I'm rather using a separate screen[4] window in the same session. Why don't you desire that? What's the purpose of an IDE if you don't want an integrated debugger? In Emacs run gdb and then gdb-many-windows (then debugging looks the same as in all these IDEs, you have a stack window, local variables window, source view, registers and so on). Regards, Andi [1] http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=73 [2] http://www.linux.com/articles/114138 [3] http://clewn.sourceforge.net/ [4] http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/ Oh and be aware that there's no single way in Emacs to do something and I've told you just the way I do it or the one I know of. Geralt. [1]http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/SessionManagement [2]http://xtalk.msk.su/~ott/en/writings/emacs-devenv/EmacsCedet.html [3]http://jdee.sourceforge.net/
Re: [gentoo-user] perfect IDE
On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 2:51 AM, David Relson rel...@osagesoftware.com wrote: ide for c/c++ code writing. I've been through vim/vim + plugins/emacs + different modes/anjuta/kdevelop/codeblocks/eclipse/netbeans ... I've heard some good things about komodo, though it's not open source and I've not used it. Komodo IDE is indeed closesource, but Komodo Edit seems LGPLed. There's an ebuild on bugzilla [1]. Another package missing your list is Geany [2]. It's less fancy, but you might appreciate its being simple. Liviu [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171944 [2] http://www.geany.org/ -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
Re: [gentoo-user] perfect IDE
http://www.qtsoftware.com/developer/qt-creator Take a look and try it. On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Andrei Hanganu ahang...@bitdefender.comwrote: helo group, i've been trying the past 2-3 years to find the most usable and nice ide for c/c++ code writing. I've been through vim/vim + plugins/emacs + different modes/anjuta/kdevelop/codeblocks/eclipse/netbeans ... every single one of them has at least one drawback. In short words, i am looking for an ide that can do this: - syntax highlighting - autocomplete (on the fly, not on demand, and maybe smart? - identify structures/classes ) - concurrent editing of multiple files (splitting) - tabs or buffer list - file browser - project manager - symbol list/browser current editing buffer - regex search/replace - flexible build options that include scons, not just makefile - code folding (with detection of blocks) - lightweight/ergonomic interface (i dislike space being occupied by the bar that displays the line numbers, with a padding of 10px for example) i don't desire gdb or valgrind integration, but would be a + does anyone know the answer to this ultimate question? I keep comparing different editors with the microsoft's visual studio, that is not by far as powerful as emacs but it just plain and simple does the job. They will reach a milestone when the brackets matching will actually work, but despite small inconveniences, i find it to be very close to what i am looking for. kdevelop also seemed very close to what i wanted, but somehow the fonts or the dpi make it very crowded, i get very little space for the code. On the other hand netbeans is a good example of how the interface should be arranged, but java driven ide tends to stop being able to respond in tolerable time. i am on the edge of despair, and i am willing to try even a commercial solution. Anyone had some very positive experience with a specific ide? thanks, Andrei -- Eduardo Gurgel Pinho (GELSoL-UFC) (Gentoo) Linux User #415930 http://edgurgel.wordpress.com http://alu.dc.ufc.br/~eduardo
Re: [gentoo-user] perfect IDE
Andreas Niederl wrote: Hi, Andrei Hanganu wrote: helo group, i've been trying the past 2-3 years to find the most usable and nice ide for c/c++ code writing. I've been through vim/vim + plugins/emacs + different modes/anjuta/kdevelop/codeblocks/eclipse/netbeans ... every single one of them has at least one drawback. I'm thinking the more I get to know Vim and the available plugins, the more it becomes like an IDE to me. I guess the same is true for Emacs. My advice would be to take on of those or any other open IDE and learn and extend them to the point that it's perfect for you. Now for your feature requirements list I'm going to concentrate on Vim and Emacs as those two are the ones I know. In short words, i am looking for an ide that can do this: - syntax highlighting - concurrent editing of multiple files (splitting) - tabs or buffer list - file browser - regex search/replace Both Vim and Emacs can do these basic features. Vim even provides a mechanism for saving and restoring editing sessions. - autocomplete (on the fly, not on demand, and maybe smart? - identify structures/classes ) Haven't tried it yet, but for Vim word_complete.vim[1] seems to be what you're looking for. You should also have a look at Omnicompletion. As Emacs has hooks for nearly everything it should be doable with it as well. - project manager Don't know about that but it would be nice to have simpler project specific settings for Emacs/Vim. - symbol list/browser current editing buffer That's pretty much ctags/etags, maybe cscope. - flexible build options that include scons, not just makefile You can put the following in ~/.vimrc: autocmd BufEnter ~/path/to/project/* set makeprg=scons - code folding (with detection of blocks) Vim does it[2]; Emacs seems to have some kind of FoldingMode according to Google. - lightweight/ergonomic interface (i dislike space being occupied by the bar that displays the line numbers, with a padding of 10px for example) Both of them are very customisable in this regard. i don't desire gdb or valgrind integration, but would be a + Emacs features gdb integration and there's Clewn[3] for GVim. As for me, I'm rather using a separate screen[4] window in the same session. Regards, Andi [1] http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=73 [2] http://www.linux.com/articles/114138 [3] http://clewn.sourceforge.net/ [4] http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/ hello, your suggestions are perfectly valid, but both vim and emacs suffer from the same problem: inconsistency. A very varying group of people writes these plugins, and if i could get 5 plugins to work correctly i would reach what i am looking for. Unfortunately, one breaks down other two, or vice versa. In emacs, which i think i've given the most time, i'm using right now some panels that bring me the bufferlist, and a filesystem browser, but they screw up the splitting of windows when the bottom panel is displayed and the editor word wrap stops working when browser is displayed. That's just a small description of the general feeling, these plugins are great, but they usually work great when used alone, or just one major plugin enabled. i've checked out open/komodo, the main issue is that it is an ide designed for web developing, not c compilation as far as i could see. right now, codeblocks seems to be most functional, and i know they are working on making split windows function better. I've also switched on kde4 and latest kate (implies also new kdevelop) has a very interesting functionality vim like input mode, which seems rather unnatural at first, but i think it has a lot of potential. I've given some time to yziss too, but as far as i can see the project has been paused. I like very much the ideea of an IDE on top of a native VIM editor, and i'm considering expanding gvim. regards, A.
[gentoo-user] perfect IDE
helo group, i've been trying the past 2-3 years to find the most usable and nice ide for c/c++ code writing. I've been through vim/vim + plugins/emacs + different modes/anjuta/kdevelop/codeblocks/eclipse/netbeans ... every single one of them has at least one drawback. In short words, i am looking for an ide that can do this: - syntax highlighting - autocomplete (on the fly, not on demand, and maybe smart? - identify structures/classes ) - concurrent editing of multiple files (splitting) - tabs or buffer list - file browser - project manager - symbol list/browser current editing buffer - regex search/replace - flexible build options that include scons, not just makefile - code folding (with detection of blocks) - lightweight/ergonomic interface (i dislike space being occupied by the bar that displays the line numbers, with a padding of 10px for example) i don't desire gdb or valgrind integration, but would be a + does anyone know the answer to this ultimate question? I keep comparing different editors with the microsoft's visual studio, that is not by far as powerful as emacs but it just plain and simple does the job. They will reach a milestone when the brackets matching will actually work, but despite small inconveniences, i find it to be very close to what i am looking for. kdevelop also seemed very close to what i wanted, but somehow the fonts or the dpi make it very crowded, i get very little space for the code. On the other hand netbeans is a good example of how the interface should be arranged, but java driven ide tends to stop being able to respond in tolerable time. i am on the edge of despair, and i am willing to try even a commercial solution. Anyone had some very positive experience with a specific ide? thanks, Andrei
Re: [gentoo-user] perfect IDE
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Andrei Hanganu ahang...@bitdefender.com wrote: helo group, i've been trying the past 2-3 years to find the most usable and nice ide for c/c++ code writing. I've been through vim/vim + plugins/emacs + different modes/anjuta/kdevelop/codeblocks/eclipse/netbeans ... every single one of them has at least one drawback. In short words, i am looking for an ide that can do this: - syntax highlighting - autocomplete (on the fly, not on demand, and maybe smart? - identify structures/classes ) - concurrent editing of multiple files (splitting) - tabs or buffer list - file browser - project manager - symbol list/browser current editing buffer - regex search/replace - flexible build options that include scons, not just makefile - code folding (with detection of blocks) - lightweight/ergonomic interface (i dislike space being occupied by the bar that displays the line numbers, with a padding of 10px for example) i don't desire gdb or valgrind integration, but would be a + does anyone know the answer to this ultimate question? I keep comparing different editors with the microsoft's visual studio, that is not by far as powerful as emacs but it just plain and simple does the job. They will reach a milestone when the brackets matching will actually work, but despite small inconveniences, i find it to be very close to what i am looking for. kdevelop also seemed very close to what i wanted, but somehow the fonts or the dpi make it very crowded, i get very little space for the code. On the other hand netbeans is a good example of how the interface should be arranged, but java driven ide tends to stop being able to respond in tolerable time. i am on the edge of despair, and i am willing to try even a commercial solution. Anyone had some very positive experience with a specific ide? thanks, Andrei The problem is you've named pretty much every IDE in use by software developers today, with the possible exception of Visual Studio which is probably not applicable anyways. Now don't take this the wrong way, because I'm not at all trying to be condescending, but have you considered contributing your coding talent to Eclipse or CodeBlocks to make those products better suit your needs? Your problem is one faced by developers every day, but it seems like you're still thinking in a closed frame of mind. If you don't like it, change it! Cheers, D
Re: [gentoo-user] perfect IDE
you are perfectly right, but as a wise man said: don't reinvent the wheel,that's why i'm asking this group 1st. I'm positive i'm not the first person to meet these issues and if it just happened that i missed a great editor out there i hope other people might hold the answer for this one. If all fails, i will have no other way then to build the ide i dream about, but even for writing an ide, i would still appreciate to have the best editor out there for writing it, at least until a first release. :) i promise that if i found no answer, the next thread will be features of the perfect IDE A.
Re: [gentoo-user] perfect IDE
Andrei Hanganu wrote: helo group, i've been trying the past 2-3 years to find the most usable and nice ide for c/c++ code writing. I've been through vim/vim + plugins/emacs + different modes/anjuta/kdevelop/codeblocks/eclipse/netbeans ... every single one of them has at least one drawback. In short words, i am looking for an ide that can do this: - syntax highlighting - autocomplete (on the fly, not on demand, and maybe smart? - identify structures/classes ) - concurrent editing of multiple files (splitting) - tabs or buffer list - file browser - project manager - symbol list/browser current editing buffer - regex search/replace - flexible build options that include scons, not just makefile - code folding (with detection of blocks) - lightweight/ergonomic interface (i dislike space being occupied by the bar that displays the line numbers, with a padding of 10px for example) i don't desire gdb or valgrind integration, but would be a + does anyone know the answer to this ultimate question? I keep comparing different editors with the microsoft's visual studio, that is not by far as powerful as emacs but it just plain and simple does the job. They will reach a milestone when the brackets matching will actually work, but despite small inconveniences, i find it to be very close to what i am looking for. kdevelop also seemed very close to what i wanted, but somehow the fonts or the dpi make it very crowded, i get very little space for the code. On the other hand netbeans is a good example of how the interface should be arranged, but java driven ide tends to stop being able to respond in tolerable time. i am on the edge of despair, and i am willing to try even a commercial solution. Anyone had some very positive experience with a specific ide? thanks, Andrei I have a similar question long time ago. Finally, I found that Eclipse with extension for C/C++ is a reasonable solution. Hung
Re: [gentoo-user] perfect IDE
I have been searching for an open source c++ IDE for some time now. I have not yet found a single IDE that is a perfect fit. When you develop something small, an editor like vim/kate/emacs can be sufficient, but when you work with larger projects created by other people, things become a litte awkward (or at least for me). ctag can help. Using doxygen to generate browsable code can also help a great deal. Create a config file to generate all documentation even for uncommented code and that includes the source in the generated documentation. Monodevelop has a c++ component in the IDE, but for some reason (mono,novell,microsoft deals) I have lost interest in it. My criticism may not be valid though, it is political. I would suggest looking at CMake. You can use CMake scripts to configure the build for a project independant of an IDE. CMake can also generate project files for Eclipse CDT, KDevelop and some other very popular c++ IDE that will not be mentioned here. KDevelop is undergoing a complete rewrite. Looks like something commond to projects with a name starting with K. It may take some time, but when finished it may be worthwhile? Eclipse is not that bad. Make sure that you get a version of Eclipse without any java plugins installed, they normally add a bunch of useless stuff. Creating an IDE is no small task. If you would like to dedecate some time, have a look at the current efforts going into kdevelop. I have heard of people that mainly target linux using the IDE which name will not be mentioned. Guess that's an indication that there is a need for a better open source linux IDE. A good step may be to ask the guys on the KDE lists (or some other big project) what IDE they are using? But, you may get a lot of frowns and the answer of emacs/vim. Regards Dirk
Re: [gentoo-user] perfect IDE
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Andrei Hanganu ahang...@bitdefender.com wrote: you are perfectly right, but as a wise man said: don't reinvent the wheel,that's why i'm asking this group 1st. I'm positive i'm not the first person to meet these issues and if it just happened that i missed a great editor out there i hope other people might hold the answer for this one. If all fails, i will have no other way then to build the ide i dream about, but even for writing an ide, i would still appreciate to have the best editor out there for writing it, at least until a first release. :) i promise that if i found no answer, the next thread will be features of the perfect IDE A. I've never used it, but doesn't Qt integrate into Visual Studio and claim the ability to compile Qt code for windows/mac/linux without changes to the source? (I'm sure it's not as simple as they make it sound). Of course if you're not using Qt then that probably isn't something you'd want to consider. :)
Re: [gentoo-user] perfect IDE
Hi, Andrei Hanganu wrote: helo group, i've been trying the past 2-3 years to find the most usable and nice ide for c/c++ code writing. I've been through vim/vim + plugins/emacs + different modes/anjuta/kdevelop/codeblocks/eclipse/netbeans ... every single one of them has at least one drawback. I'm thinking the more I get to know Vim and the available plugins, the more it becomes like an IDE to me. I guess the same is true for Emacs. My advice would be to take on of those or any other open IDE and learn and extend them to the point that it's perfect for you. Now for your feature requirements list I'm going to concentrate on Vim and Emacs as those two are the ones I know. In short words, i am looking for an ide that can do this: - syntax highlighting - concurrent editing of multiple files (splitting) - tabs or buffer list - file browser - regex search/replace Both Vim and Emacs can do these basic features. Vim even provides a mechanism for saving and restoring editing sessions. - autocomplete (on the fly, not on demand, and maybe smart? - identify structures/classes ) Haven't tried it yet, but for Vim word_complete.vim[1] seems to be what you're looking for. You should also have a look at Omnicompletion. As Emacs has hooks for nearly everything it should be doable with it as well. - project manager Don't know about that but it would be nice to have simpler project specific settings for Emacs/Vim. - symbol list/browser current editing buffer That's pretty much ctags/etags, maybe cscope. - flexible build options that include scons, not just makefile You can put the following in ~/.vimrc: autocmd BufEnter ~/path/to/project/* set makeprg=scons - code folding (with detection of blocks) Vim does it[2]; Emacs seems to have some kind of FoldingMode according to Google. - lightweight/ergonomic interface (i dislike space being occupied by the bar that displays the line numbers, with a padding of 10px for example) Both of them are very customisable in this regard. i don't desire gdb or valgrind integration, but would be a + Emacs features gdb integration and there's Clewn[3] for GVim. As for me, I'm rather using a separate screen[4] window in the same session. Regards, Andi [1] http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=73 [2] http://www.linux.com/articles/114138 [3] http://clewn.sourceforge.net/ [4] http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/
Re: [gentoo-user] perfect IDE
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:05:08 + Andrei Hanganu wrote: helo group, i've been trying the past 2-3 years to find the most usable and nice ide for c/c++ code writing. I've been through vim/vim + plugins/emacs + different modes/anjuta/kdevelop/codeblocks/eclipse/netbeans ... every single one of them has at least one drawback. In short words, i am looking for an ide that can do this: - syntax highlighting - autocomplete (on the fly, not on demand, and maybe smart? - identify structures/classes ) - concurrent editing of multiple files (splitting) - tabs or buffer list - file browser - project manager - symbol list/browser current editing buffer - regex search/replace - flexible build options that include scons, not just makefile - code folding (with detection of blocks) - lightweight/ergonomic interface (i dislike space being occupied by the bar that displays the line numbers, with a padding of 10px for example) i don't desire gdb or valgrind integration, but would be a + does anyone know the answer to this ultimate question? I keep comparing different editors with the microsoft's visual studio, that is not by far as powerful as emacs but it just plain and simple does the job. They will reach a milestone when the brackets matching will actually work, but despite small inconveniences, i find it to be very close to what i am looking for. kdevelop also seemed very close to what i wanted, but somehow the fonts or the dpi make it very crowded, i get very little space for the code. On the other hand netbeans is a good example of how the interface should be arranged, but java driven ide tends to stop being able to respond in tolerable time. i am on the edge of despair, and i am willing to try even a commercial solution. Anyone had some very positive experience with a specific ide? thanks, Andrei I've heard some good things about komodo, though it's not open source and I've not used it. David
Re: [gentoo-user] perfect IDE
El mar, 17-02-2009 a las 20:51 -0500, David Relson escribió: On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:05:08 + Andrei Hanganu wrote: helo group, i've been trying the past 2-3 years to find the most usable and nice ide for c/c++ code writing. I've been through vim/vim + plugins/emacs + different modes/anjuta/kdevelop/codeblocks/eclipse/netbeans ... every single one of them has at least one drawback. In short words, i am looking for an ide that can do this: - syntax highlighting - autocomplete (on the fly, not on demand, and maybe smart? - identify structures/classes ) - concurrent editing of multiple files (splitting) - tabs or buffer list - file browser - project manager - symbol list/browser current editing buffer - regex search/replace - flexible build options that include scons, not just makefile - code folding (with detection of blocks) - lightweight/ergonomic interface (i dislike space being occupied by the bar that displays the line numbers, with a padding of 10px for example) i don't desire gdb or valgrind integration, but would be a + does anyone know the answer to this ultimate question? I keep comparing different editors with the microsoft's visual studio, that is not by far as powerful as emacs but it just plain and simple does the job. They will reach a milestone when the brackets matching will actually work, but despite small inconveniences, i find it to be very close to what i am looking for. kdevelop also seemed very close to what i wanted, but somehow the fonts or the dpi make it very crowded, i get very little space for the code. On the other hand netbeans is a good example of how the interface should be arranged, but java driven ide tends to stop being able to respond in tolerable time. i am on the edge of despair, and i am willing to try even a commercial solution. Anyone had some very positive experience with a specific ide? thanks, Andrei I've heard some good things about komodo, though it's not open source and I've not used it. David There is also Openkomodo, its name says what it is.. :) signature.asc Description: Esta parte del mensaje está firmada digitalmente
