Re: [gentoo-user] Giving Gentoo Another Go
On 18/03/2016 05:03, Hunter Jozwiak wrote: > Hello, > > > > After talking to a few diehard Gentoo fans at my local LUG, I decided I > would like to give Gentoo another shot. Are there any good books that > can supplement the Gentoo handbook as well as books that go more in > depth than the Gentoo chapter on Portage? One of the main issues I faced > with Gentoo when I first tried it is that I did not understand the power > of package.use, and I put everything in to make.conf. However, I feel > that given enough supplemental information, I can hopefully make Gentoo > attempt 6 a more permanent thing, and, eventually, migrate my servers > over to it. Any input is greatly appreciated. I don't know of any books on running Gentoo. I strongly suspect any such book wouldn't be much use though - Gentoo is a meta-distribution so you can build anything you want. What you want and what's ain a book might be very different things. Or, another way, let's look for a book called "Dummies Guide to Using Bricks" - not really gonna work is it :-) Understanding Gentoo involves using it and talking to the many good awesome folks right here. Before long, you will start to understand more and more. We'll help you out on the weak bits (like the bat-shit crazy output portage tends to spew all over your screen sometimes) and it's strengths. Things like package.use I don't think are really your problem, it's just an example of one thing amongst many you don't quite understand yet, but I'll answer anyway. USE flags enable and disable features of software at compile-time. Take for example a music player. Maybe it can store the metadata about your music in flat files, in sqlite, in mysql or postgres. Now you must make a choice where to put the flag. Maybe your music collection is HUGE and postgres is the best fit. If you add it to make.conf it becomes global and every piece of software that supports postgres will now be rebuilt to give postgres support. Maybe you don't need or want that. A flag like that is best put into package.use where it applies only to the package you list there. So postgres gets installed, the music player gets support and your MTA does not. Sometimes it's a grey area where to put a flag and you have to weigh your choices carefully. But much more often it's kinda obvious, and more familiarity makes it easier. Stick around, many folks find learning Gentoo is well worth the effort. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Giving Gentoo Another Go
On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 10:09:14 +, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > You will develop your way of doing things over time, and that way > > could change as your needs do. Using your example of package.use, > > moving USE flags from package.use to make.conf is an easy enough task > > if you need to change. I tend to put them n package.use to start with > > then migrate to make.conf if I find I am using the same flag on > > several packages. > > A simple way to start off is to see whether the USE flag is listed in > /usr/portage/profiles/use.desc or use.local.desc. If the former, it's > likely to affect many packages in a typical system so put it in > make.conf; if the latter, it's likely to affect only a few of your > packages so put it in package.use. You can always move it later if you > want to, as Neil says. app-portage/euses is an easy way of looking up USE flags, give it the name of a flag and it shows you the description. If it shows one or more package names, the USE flag is defined in local.desc. -- Neil Bothwick Top Oxymorons Number 33: American history pgpqbqILgdNN8.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Giving Gentoo Another Go
On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 23:03:47 -0400, Hunter Jozwiak wrote: > After talking to a few diehard Gentoo fans at my local LUG, I decided I > would like to give Gentoo another shot. Are there any good books that > can supplement the Gentoo handbook The Gentoo handbook really is the book. It's written by Gentoo devs so it is always up to date, something that cannot always be said of print books (a friend of mine wrote the Haynes Manual on Ubuntu some years ago, few months later they released Unity!). > as well as books that go more in > depth than the Gentoo chapter on Portage? The main mistake that people make with the Gentoo Handbook is that they follow it carefully through installation, then stop. They have only read chapter 1. The rest of the handbook, along with the Gentoo Wiki provide a lot more information. > One of the main issues I > faced with Gentoo when I first tried it is that I did not understand > the power of package.use, and I put everything in to make.conf. No one gets it right first time, there are many choices and many ways of doing things. No book can tell you which way is right for you, only experience can do that. Getting things like this wrong is a natural part of the Gentoo learning experience. You will develop your way of doing things over time, and that way could change as your needs do. Using your example of package.use, moving USE flags from package.use to make.conf is an easy enough task if you need to change. I tend to put them n package.use to start with then migrate to make.conf if I find I am using the same flag on several packages. There's also the choice of whether you make package.use (and its friends) and make.conf a single file or a directory of files. Ask in here and you will find proponents of both approaches, but it's an organisational choice, whichever works for you is best. -- Neil Bothwick "Mmmm, trouble with grammer have I, yes?" - Yoda pgpf4qJdxP9x5.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Giving Gentoo Another Go
> On Fri, 18 March 2016, at 6:07 am, Alan McKinnon> wrote: > > … > USE flags enable and disable features of software at compile-time. Take > for example a music player. Maybe it can store the metadata about your > music in flat files, in sqlite, in mysql or postgres. Now you must make > a choice where to put the flag. Maybe your music collection is HUGE and > postgres is the best fit. > > If you add it to make.conf it becomes global and every piece of software > that supports postgres will now be rebuilt to give postgres support. > Maybe you don't need or want that. > > A flag like that is best put into package.use where it applies only to > the package you list there. So postgres gets installed, the music player > gets support and your MTA does not. To expand on this example, if `emerge -p` showed your music player had flags for mp3, mp4 and aac files, I would probably set those in /etc/make.conf, because I want all music and video players and converters to support these common file types. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Giving Gentoo Another Go
Not sure of any books, but some documents on the Gentoo Wiki about the various projects are helpful. I use /etc/portage/package.{use,accept_keywords}/* in a somewhat unusual way. For each package that needs tuning the USE flags beyond the eselected profile and some globals in make.conf, I have a file named "." (e.g. media-libs.mesa) with a few handling some multiples. This lets me tune packages in a fine grained manner, and still see which ones I have fixed quickly. For example: In eselect profile: default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop/kde In make.conf: (may well repeat some from profile, try to group by functionality) USE="smp \ cdr dvd dvdr css usb -bluetooth \ caps branding unicode ipv6 tcpd \ kde qt4 qt3support plasma gtk -gnome \ dbus udev udisks perl samba \ icu idn maildir -mbox \ alsa -pulseaudio ffmpeg -libav gstreamer \ X glamor opengl xattr xine xinerama xv xvid \ sdl wxwidgets \ ogg theora vorbis flac dirac schroedinger mp3 mp4 matroska mtp \ a52 aac audiofile cdda faac libsamplerate sndfile x264 \ vdpau xcb vaapi quvi \ lzma lzo lz4 zlib \ cvs git subversion \ sqlite mysql introspection \ bash-completion vim-syntax \ fontconfig truetype threads nptl \ ruby_targets_ruby21 -ruby_targets_ruby19 -ruby19 \ -nepomuk -semantic-desktop \ -ldap -evo -eds \ offensive" and an ls(1) of /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords : app-admin.mcelog app-arch.lzma app-cdr.k3b app-emulation.qemu app-emulation.virtualbox app-forensics.unhide app-portage.layman app-text.yodl dev-libs.libebml dev-libs.nss dev-libs.pugixml dev-python.pyGPG dev-python.pymountboot ... virtual.ffmpeg virtual.libusb www-client.chromium www-client.firefox x11-libs.libva x11-libs.libva-intel-driver x11-libs.libva-vdpau-driver x11-libs.wxGTK zzzpackages.keywords The last entry is an empty file to catch the "automagic" changes portage may propose so that they can be broken out into individual files. package.use/* is similar. I have found some wedged cases where there isn't any way to solve it except by using some "unstable" arch packages (while waiting for them to be stabilized.) It may seem unwieldy, but I fnid it much easier to deal with than one big file with all the packages isted in it. For example, in /etc/portage/package.use/app-office.akonadi-server I have: app-office/akonadi-server soprano -sqlite which makes the emerge be quiet about having both mysql and sqlite enabled. Don't be afraid to ask questions, it is an easy cure. -- G.Wolfe Woodbury redwo...@gmail.com
[gentoo-user] Giving Gentoo Another Go
Hello, After talking to a few diehard Gentoo fans at my local LUG, I decided I would like to give Gentoo another shot. Are there any good books that can supplement the Gentoo handbook as well as books that go more in depth than the Gentoo chapter on Portage? One of the main issues I faced with Gentoo when I first tried it is that I did not understand the power of package.use, and I put everything in to make.conf. However, I feel that given enough supplemental information, I can hopefully make Gentoo attempt 6 a more permanent thing, and, eventually, migrate my servers over to it. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Hunter
OT: Re: [gentoo-user] Giving Gentoo Another Go
Peter Humphreywrote: > On Friday 18 March 2016 12:03:46 Neil Bothwick wrote: > > > Top Oxymorons Number 33: American history > > Top Oxymorons Number 1a: atonal music. I don't agree to the second statement. ;-) -- Regards wabe
Re: [gentoo-user] Giving Gentoo Another Go
On Friday 18 March 2016 12:03:46 Neil Bothwick wrote: > Top Oxymorons Number 33: American history Top Oxymorons Number 1a: atonal music. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Giving Gentoo Another Go
On Friday 18 March 2016 09:08:53 Neil Bothwick wrote: > No one gets it right first time, there are many choices and many ways of > doing things. No book can tell you which way is right for you, only > experience can do that. Getting things like this wrong is a natural part > of the Gentoo learning experience. > > You will develop your way of doing things over time, and that way could > change as your needs do. Using your example of package.use, moving USE > flags from package.use to make.conf is an easy enough task if you need to > change. I tend to put them n package.use to start with then migrate to > make.conf if I find I am using the same flag on several packages. A simple way to start off is to see whether the USE flag is listed in /usr/portage/profiles/use.desc or use.local.desc. If the former, it's likely to affect many packages in a typical system so put it in make.conf; if the latter, it's likely to affect only a few of your packages so put it in package.use. You can always move it later if you want to, as Neil says. -- Rgds Peter linuxcounter.net reg user 5290 since 1994/04/23
Re: [gentoo-user] Giving Gentoo Another Go
On 18/03/2016 17:29, Stroller wrote: > >> On Fri, 18 March 2016, at 6:07 am, Alan McKinnon>> wrote: >> >> … >> USE flags enable and disable features of software at compile-time. Take >> for example a music player. Maybe it can store the metadata about your >> music in flat files, in sqlite, in mysql or postgres. Now you must make >> a choice where to put the flag. Maybe your music collection is HUGE and >> postgres is the best fit. >> >> If you add it to make.conf it becomes global and every piece of software >> that supports postgres will now be rebuilt to give postgres support. >> Maybe you don't need or want that. >> >> A flag like that is best put into package.use where it applies only to >> the package you list there. So postgres gets installed, the music player >> gets support and your MTA does not. > > To expand on this example, if `emerge -p` showed your music player had flags > for mp3, mp4 and aac files, I would probably set those in /etc/make.conf, > because I want all music and video players and converters to support these > common file types. Good point. This is where judgement comes in - what can probably go in make.conf and what will be better in package.use. I normally put general things like a/v codecs and hardware features make.conf as I'm very likely into want it everywhere. If I use handbrake to make mkv and mp4 rips, then I probably want mplayer, dragon, vlc and all the other players to play them. Makes sense. Then there's that other thread today that mentioned wayland. Some bit of KDE must have it but you certainly don't want it global. So a judgement call; which quite incidentally is the thing we sysadmins get paid to have :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com