Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
Apparently, though unproven, at 00:09 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Stroller did opine thusly: Yes, like FINDER (actually makes windows explorer look almost reasonable), You know, Finder is not as bad as you would imagine. As Alan says - it works exactly how Steve thinks it should work. I can imagine it is absolutely rubbish if you're forced to use it for only a few minutes at a time. It's been so long since I started using OS X that I can't really remember how it was at first, but I assuredly felt that way about Classic (to MacOS 9). But what I do remember from my first days of OS X is that after a couple of weeks I got used to it - I have been perfectly happy ever after. So here's one thing that MacOS is very good at: text searches. I have to archive old mails in off-line tbz2 to retain some sanity, my colleagues on Macs don't. Their mail store goes somewhere (we don't know where, not having looked much) and 60,000 mails from 2 years doesn't slow things down. If we want to discuss the grand plan from 9 months ago about the public ftp server and replacing the DNS caches without actually ever paying for them, I have a 30 minute search ahead of me. The PFY types a few words in a text box and we magically watch the folder list get shorter and shorter. He can find almost any mail in less than a minute - looks a lot like Google's autocomplete search box actually. My point? MacOS has at least one very well thought-out feature for the users that 100% JustWorks. p.s. stroller - your line breaks are not really reasonable. I have 1920 pixels horizontally and mails display in 7 point Monospace; the mailer is maximized to benefit Folder View. I don't care about the dead space beyond the 100-column limit (Kopete windows set Above all fit in there nicely) but 240 column monospace txt is almost unreadable - the eye can no longer easily stay on the same line while scanning. 80 columns really is a good thing -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 12:40:29PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: So here's one thing that MacOS is very good at: text searches. I have to archive old mails in off-line tbz2 to retain some sanity, my colleagues on Macs don't. Their mail store goes somewhere (we don't know where, not having looked much) and 60,000 mails from 2 years doesn't slow things down. Sorry, forgot to mention that using mairix for searching local mail via offlineimap is *very* fast and quite accurate so far here, though there may be issues I haven't seen yet as it's only been a week or so. Somewhere I read that mairix chokes on utf-8, but so far no problem here.. -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 05:10:01AM +0200, Stroller wrote: Part of my post that you chose not to quote was I'd be the first to admit that Macs have flaws. All desktops / UIs / operating-systems are a compromise. I don't believe any of them are perfect. Last time I used Linux on the desktop (in ernest) I had some dreadful problems with KDE crashing or failing to open under certain circumstances, which I found frustrating and impossible to overcome. That was several years ago, and no-one on the mailing list or Usenet group I tried was able to help; I don't think I knew at the time to try the KDE mailing list. That's not a problem with Linux, it's a problem with kde. That's once of the reasons I strongly dislike kde4 BTW -- with kde3 most windows users were impressed and easily switched. As you found (and as we see daily on this list), kde4 has yet to achieve that level of carefree stability. People whose first experience with *nix involves kde4 are bound to come away relieved they have windows to go back to! Currently the biggest thing holding me back from giving Linux another good chance to prove itself to me is basically that Mac OS X is good enough for me. Low standards, or perhaps you just value other things? Does Apple Mail give you the option of wrapping text at a sensible number of characters? Perhaps it's just your settings... One concern about using Linux on the desktop is that I don't think the apps will be as good or as polished as the ones I use currently Never understood the obsession with polish. Either it works properly or it doesn't. The polishing Apple delivers always seems to end in me looking at a blnding box of light with the only recourse being to dim *everything*, invert colors on *everything*, or wear shades. Incredibly annoying, and not my idea of polished at all (then again, I genuinely don't see why anyone would buy 100 watt light bulbs other than for industrial use). Apparently Apple doesn't give a rat's behind about accessibility issues. Imperfect physical specimens need not apply is what Jobs would probably say if he were honest. Disability is *so* uncool... Another is that (I believe) gestures are not supported in present window managers - presently I can pinch outwards with two fingers to zoom in on an image, or I can swipe with 4 fingers to show an overview of my virtual desktops and open windows. Spreading all 5 fingers shows me the desktop. So I don't like mice, and I was getting pissed off with cleaning my trackball on a daily basis (the ball kinda gets all clogged and slow) … it's hard to find a device with as many buttons as I can make trackpad gestures. You have a keyboard, why the need to pinch something? :) Nevertheless, there are some things I agree are absolutely shit about OS X. Yes, like FINDER (actually makes windows explorer look almost reasonable), utter crap security, xnu, and Jobs' stupid obsession with microkernels. The Mac Defender fiasco is the beginning of the end. A similar thing happened with the original Mac OS, and within two years there were hundred of malware instances just like windows. Apple is more interested in design than in engineering, it's been their downfall before. You say OS X is good enough I say you've got some mighty low standards. -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
Apparently, though unproven, at 13:35 on Saturday 04 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: You say OS X is good enough I say you've got some mighty low standards. My manager's predecessor's precedessor's precedessor had the same thing with SuSE and installed that goddamn piece of shit on 100+ boxes. Sure, it all looks neat after first install. Sybase ASE goes on and starts up real nice as do all sorts of other proprietary (and despoke) apps. Wait 6 months, try do a perfectly reasonable upgrade. Something easy like, say syslog-ng-1.6 to syslog-ng-3.x. Carnage. There's a certain mentality that goes with these New! Improved! Shiny! OSes and their magic sauce special apps. They only work if you use it exactly as the vendors thinks - which is necessarily an extremely narrow view. /etc ain't broke, I can't understand why SuSE insists on fixing it -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 06:47:34PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 13:35 on Saturday 04 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: You say OS X is good enough I say you've got some mighty low standards. My manager's predecessor's precedessor's precedessor had the same thing with SuSE and installed that goddamn piece of shit on 100+ boxes. Sure, it all looks neat after first install. Sybase ASE goes on and starts up real nice as do all sorts of other proprietary (and despoke) apps. Wait 6 months, try do a perfectly reasonable upgrade. Something easy like, say syslog-ng-1.6 to syslog-ng-3.x. Carnage. There's a certain mentality that goes with these New! Improved! Shiny! OSes and their magic sauce special apps. They only work if you use it exactly as the vendors thinks - which is necessarily an extremely narrow view. /etc ain't broke, I can't understand why SuSE insists on fixing it It's the desire to create something only you can fix, so you get users over a barrel. Windows mentality... -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Saturday 04 Jun 2011 18:25:00 Indi wrote: On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 06:47:34PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 13:35 on Saturday 04 June 2011, Indi did opine thusly: You say OS X is good enough I say you've got some mighty low standards. My manager's predecessor's precedessor's precedessor had the same thing with SuSE and installed that goddamn piece of shit on 100+ boxes. Sure, it all looks neat after first install. Sybase ASE goes on and starts up real nice as do all sorts of other proprietary (and despoke) apps. Wait 6 months, try do a perfectly reasonable upgrade. Something easy like, say syslog-ng-1.6 to syslog-ng-3.x. Carnage. There's a certain mentality that goes with these New! Improved! Shiny! OSes and their magic sauce special apps. They only work if you use it exactly as the vendors thinks - which is necessarily an extremely narrow view. /etc ain't broke, I can't understand why SuSE insists on fixing it It's the desire to create something only you can fix, so you get users over a barrel. Windows mentality... If it weren't for SUSE and Fedora I wouldn't be running Gentoo for all these years ... ;-) -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On 4 June 2011, at 12:35, Indi wrote: ... Last time I used Linux on the desktop (in ernest) I had some dreadful problems with KDE crashing or failing to open under certain circumstances, which I found frustrating and impossible to overcome. That was several years ago, and no-one on the mailing list or Usenet group I tried was able to help; I don't think I knew at the time to try the KDE mailing list. That's not a problem with Linux, it's a problem with kde. You're right. I should have said last time I used a Free Software desktop system in earnest. That's once of the reasons I strongly dislike kde4 BTW -- with kde3 most windows users were impressed and easily switched. As you found (and as we see daily on this list), kde4 has yet to achieve that level of carefree stability. I'm afraid I didn't find that at all, sir. This would have been KDE 2, I would guess from the date (c 2001, Mandrake, c v8). People whose first experience with *nix involves kde4 … And then I tried Irix for a while. Maybe a year or so. Currently the biggest thing holding me back from giving Linux another good chance to prove itself to me is basically that Mac OS X is good enough for me. Low standards, or perhaps you just value other things? I find something slightly insulting about your reference to my standards, and I'm having a little trouble articulating quite why. I don't know, maybe it's because I'm used to a person having low standards when his girlfriend is dumb, fat or ugly. That guy has some low standards, man, Did you see the face on her?, Blimey! What about her arse? And this is pretty ridiculous, because you obviously don't know what you're talking about. You clearly wouldn't tolerate using a Mac for even a few weeks - I doubt even a day - so how can you know what it's really like to work with? It's impossible for either of us to know which is the better operating system, without committing several weeks to the project. If you're prepared to do that, then maybe we can arrange a proper comparison. Let me know when your iMac arrives and tell me what window manager you suggest. Does Apple Mail give you the option of wrapping text at a sensible number of characters? Perhaps it's just your settings... My client wraps lines at a perfectly sensible length. http://linux.stroller.uk.eu.org/Email%20Line%20Wrapping.png One concern about using Linux on the desktop is that I don't think the apps will be as good or as polished as the ones I use currently Never understood the obsession with polish. Either it works properly or it doesn't. There's a difference between functional and working well. To me, this is all about getting things done. Quickly and efficiently. Apparently Apple doesn't give a rat's behind about accessibility issues. Sorry, I don't know anything about accessibility. Another is that (I believe) gestures are not supported in present window managers - presently I can pinch outwards with two fingers to zoom in on an image, or I can swipe with 4 fingers to show an overview of my virtual desktops and open windows. Spreading all 5 fingers shows me the desktop. So I don't like mice, and I was getting pissed off with cleaning my trackball on a daily basis (the ball kinda gets all clogged and slow) … it's hard to find a device with as many buttons as I can make trackpad gestures. You have a keyboard, why the need to pinch something? :) Seriously? You don't have a mouse? Because there are a lot of other people here you could be discussing this with before starting on one of my comments and making this about operating-systems and window managers. We have keyboard shortcuts because sometimes it's quicker not to have to reach for the mouse. Likewise mice have, in recent years, sprouted additional buttons because sometimes it's easier to use one of those than to reach for the keyboard. In some ways multitouch trackpad gestures are simply a whole load more buttons than you have room for on a single mouse. But they are also one of those things that once you get them, you'll never go back. A bit like `screen` (or `tmux`) or using the command-line in general (or digital communication or lots of other great examples that sprung to mind easily before I got distracted, and which I can now no longer recollect). I can't blame you at all for being sceptical, because they definitely don't click immediately, but stick with them a few frustrating days (I did only because my 5 year old desktop died and I was forced to rely on my laptop for a while), and pretty soon you'll be asking yourself how did I live without this? (and perhaps more to the point: how would I live without this?). Nevertheless, there are some things I agree are absolutely shit about OS X. Yes, like FINDER (actually makes windows explorer look almost reasonable), You know, Finder is not as bad as you would imagine. As Alan says - it works exactly how Steve thinks
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Sat, 4 Jun 2011 23:09:28 +0100, Stroller wrote: My client wraps lines at a perfectly sensible length. http://linux.stroller.uk.eu.org/Email%20Line%20Wrapping.png It's not always a readable length. Long lines are much harder to read, that's why newspapers use columns. The accepted width was generally considered to be 2.5 to 3.5 alphabets (not characters because of proportional type) which matches up rather nicely with the 70-odd character generally recommended for mail. -- Neil Bothwick WinErr 003: Dynamic linking error - Your mistake is now in every file signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 11:09:28PM +0100, Stroller wrote: You know, Finder is not as bad as you would imagine. I don't have to imagine. Bought my first Mac (an SE) in 1987, and my last in 2009. The '87 SE still works, the 2009 mini no longer does and was a buggy piece o' crap all its life. Unusual, yes. I was unlucky. I still use a G4 eMac running Tiger for some audio work, you can't beat macs for that -- but I can't stand to use one as an all-purpose computer. If you have to move large amounts of data around Finder is horrible. Of course it's fine for lite duty use like moving data to your usb stick. And Apple Mail will screw you over, refusing to wrap properly or suddenly composing in html without telling you and after it's already been told text only, etc etc. I've had plenty enough experience using a Mac to give an informed opinion and submit rational observations, thank you. :) Of course, there are *many* conflicting informed opinions, it depends on what you do and how you prefer to do it. For some people OS X is the bee's knees. As for the low standards crack, I apologize if you were offended, it wasn't meant to be serious. -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Saturday 04 Jun 2011 23:38:09 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sat, 4 Jun 2011 23:09:28 +0100, Stroller wrote: My client wraps lines at a perfectly sensible length. http://linux.stroller.uk.eu.org/Email%20Line%20Wrapping.png It's not always a readable length. Long lines are much harder to read, that's why newspapers use columns. The accepted width was generally considered to be 2.5 to 3.5 alphabets (not characters because of proportional type) which matches up rather nicely with the 70-odd character generally recommended for mail. Strange, on Kmail Indi's text does not wrap as shown in Stroller's screenshot, but extends to the end of the message window just as Stroller's text does. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
Mick wrote: On Saturday 04 Jun 2011 23:38:09 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sat, 4 Jun 2011 23:09:28 +0100, Stroller wrote: My client wraps lines at a perfectly sensible length. http://linux.stroller.uk.eu.org/Email%20Line%20Wrapping.png It's not always a readable length. Long lines are much harder to read, that's why newspapers use columns. The accepted width was generally considered to be 2.5 to 3.5 alphabets (not characters because of proportional type) which matches up rather nicely with the 70-odd character generally recommended for mail. Strange, on Kmail Indi's text does not wrap as shown in Stroller's screenshot, but extends to the end of the message window just as Stroller's text does. It was here too. I have one more question. What the heck is going on with our email stuff? First broken threads, now word wrapping not working correctly. Did someone break a mirror? O_O Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 06:37:31PM -0500, Dale wrote: Mick wrote: On Saturday 04 Jun 2011 23:38:09 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sat, 4 Jun 2011 23:09:28 +0100, Stroller wrote: My client wraps lines at a perfectly sensible length. http://linux.stroller.uk.eu.org/Email%20Line%20Wrapping.png It's not always a readable length. Long lines are much harder to read, that's why newspapers use columns. The accepted width was generally considered to be 2.5 to 3.5 alphabets (not characters because of proportional type) which matches up rather nicely with the 70-odd character generally recommended for mail. Strange, on Kmail Indi's text does not wrap as shown in Stroller's screenshot, but extends to the end of the message window just as Stroller's text does. It was here too. I have one more question. What the heck is going on with our email stuff? First broken threads, now word wrapping not working correctly. Did someone break a mirror? O_O All mail here is edited in vim, so I know I'm wrapping my text. The quoted text left in in my replies usually appears as is deliberately, as a courtesy. It's always good to verify what one's mail looks like in another MUA. :) -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On 3 June 2011, at 02:32, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: ... Your Linux box isn't working, and you're complaining about Macs? That seems a little inappropriate. Let me assure you: when a Mac has a hardware button, it will work just fine. It won't be disabled for no reason. This is why I use Mac for the desktop. Because when I get home after a hard day's work fixing computers I don't want to have to do a bat shit crazy amount of work to keep things working [1 so why do you own a mac? Just days ago I beachballed a mac adding some pictures to a word document. Yeah, that is the legendary MacOS stability. Next time I sat on a mac there were 37gb of stuff in trash. The poor owner tried to delete them. MacOS showed the apropriate reaction, no error anyway - and no file was deleted. Had to go down to the shell - and even after that some crap was still left. Undeletable and with no error messages or informations why. Part of my post that you chose not to quote was I'd be the first to admit that Macs have flaws. All desktops / UIs / operating-systems are a compromise. I don't believe any of them are perfect. Last time I used Linux on the desktop (in ernest) I had some dreadful problems with KDE crashing or failing to open under certain circumstances, which I found frustrating and impossible to overcome. That was several years ago, and no-one on the mailing list or Usenet group I tried was able to help; I don't think I knew at the time to try the KDE mailing list. Currently the biggest thing holding me back from giving Linux another good chance to prove itself to me is basically that Mac OS X is good enough for me. It's exceedingly easy to try the new version - I'm booted off an external USB drive as I write this, and I can copy across my ~ directory from my old system just the way you would with Linux. That's something you can't do with Windows, for example. If I wanted to try Linux, it would take me at least a week to give it a fair chance, to install it, to configure my desktop, to find equivalent applications and configure those, too. And if I didn't like then I'd have that hassle of moving back to Mac OS and having all my files (ODF document files and even just such trivial things as chatlogs) in different formats and so on. That's 7 - 10 days of my life that I have no interest in spending. What's the benefit for me? One concern about using Linux on the desktop is that I don't think the apps will be as good or as polished as the ones I use currently. Another is that (I believe) gestures are not supported in present window managers - presently I can pinch outwards with two fingers to zoom in on an image, or I can swipe with 4 fingers to show an overview of my virtual desktops and open windows. Spreading all 5 fingers shows me the desktop. So I don't like mice, and I was getting pissed off with cleaning my trackball on a daily basis (the ball kinda gets all clogged and slow) … it's hard to find a device with as many buttons as I can make trackpad gestures. You complain of beachballing OS X, using Word. But Word is a Microsoft application. ;) Nevertheless, there are some things I agree are absolutely shit about OS X. Some of these are that way because Steve Jobs wanted them that way, and his good taste is not universal; some are purely technical. It's possible to make OS X swap horribly - that might well be what happened when you dragged the image into Word, but you don't tell us how much RAM that machine had. You don't tell us whether you checked swap consumption in `top` or Activity Monitor. Safari's memory usage seems pretty bad, and I have been easily able to consistently reproduce on occasions a beachball for several minutes as pages are exchanged between RAM and disk; there's a well-known printing bug that causes this, and some particular websites. Almost always it'll sort itself out if it's left alone to settle down. My next machine will have 8gb of RAM, and I'm pretty confident I won't see this problem; I typically have 40 - 60 browser tabs open in perhaps 8 different windows. OS X's HFS gets insanely fragmented in a way that many self-identified Mac experts will deny. They clearly haven't tested their assertions using Amit Singh's hfsdebug (or fileXray) tool. Nevertheless, these are very much manageable problems, they're known and they're clearly defined. If you've got some stuff in Trash that is not deletable, I would guess that you've got a corrupt file system. That can happen on any o/s. This feels like like old joke about I can always get technical support by joining IRC and saying that 'Linux is crap because it doesn't do X'. Then half the channel will spend ages telling me how to do X in Linux. Format an external USB hard-drive as bootable (I believe you use GUID Partition Scheme for Intel Macs and HFS+ Journalled; there is no magic bootable tick-box to check, and no bootloader to install) then boot to an OS
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
Stroller wrote: My next machine will have 8gb of RAM, and I'm pretty confident I won't see this problem; I typically have 40 - 60 browser tabs open in perhaps 8 different windows. Stroller. I used to do that when I was on dial-up. Large pages would take so long, I would click on the links then go take a shower while they loaded. Now that I have DSL, that is sort of funny. I thought I was the only one that did that. lol Way back when I worked on computers, we serviced Mac's, well Apple in General. I always liked Macs. They were easy to work on and just plain worked back then. I'm not sure where Linux was at that time. This would be about 1990 or so. I'm a old fart sometimes. o_O If you think 8Gbs is cool, try 16Gbs. It takes it a while to even fill up with cache. I tried putting portage's work directory on tmpfs, it wasn't any faster. I could have spent that on a really large drive instead. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Tuesday 31 May 2011 00:26:45 Stroller wrote: On 30/5/2011, at 11:10am, Alan Mackenzie wrote: ... Right clicking on Audio Disc gives an eject menu point. YUCK!!! If I'd've wanted an Apple Macintosh, I know where to buy one. I just want my drive's eject button to work. Your Linux box isn't working, and you're complaining about Macs? That seems a little inappropriate. Let me assure you: when a Mac has a hardware button, it will work just fine. It won't be disabled for no reason. This is why I use Mac for the desktop. Because when I get home after a hard day's work fixing computers I don't want to have to do a bat shit crazy amount of work to keep things working [1 so why do you own a mac? Just days ago I beachballed a mac adding some pictures to a word document. Yeah, that is the legendary MacOS stability. Next time I sat on a mac there were 37gb of stuff in trash. The poor owner tried to delete them. MacOS showed the apropriate reaction, no error anyway - and no file was deleted. Had to go down to the shell - and even after that some crap was still left. Undeletable and with no error messages or informations why. Apple's macos is the worst of all OS I had to deal with. OpenBSD is a hostile little bitch, but at least you can get the information you need out of it. Solaris? Not half as broken. WindowsXP? A sow rolling in mud munching on garbage but at least it does not die a horrible death just because you add some pics to a word file. VIsta is just a bigger sow.
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
Hello, Stroller. On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 12:26:45AM +0100, Stroller wrote: On 30/5/2011, at 11:10am, Alan Mackenzie wrote: ... Right clicking on Audio Disc gives an eject menu point. YUCK!!! If I'd've wanted an Apple Macintosh, I know where to buy one. I just want my drive's eject button to work. Your Linux box isn't working, and you're complaining about Macs? No, comPARing, not comPLAINing. :-) That seems a little inappropriate. Let me assure you: when a Mac has a hardware button, it will work just fine. It won't be disabled for no reason. I seem to remember an old Mac back in ~1992 not having a button to eject the floppy. That forced you to use the mouse in the trash can method, just as Gnome is forcing me to use the mouse to eject. This is why I use Mac for the desktop. Because when I get home after a hard day's work fixing computers I don't want to have to do a bat shit crazy amount of work to keep things working [1]. I don't want the kind of grief you've been experiencing with this issue. I'd *love* to use Linux on the desktop, but it's stuff like this that discourages me. Yes, I can understand. Right-clicking a CD to get an eject menu is very well-established across all UIs. It's better established in Windows, in fact (since c 95), than it is in Macs, which used to be criticised because one dragged the CD to the trash (actually, the Trash icon changes to an eject icon as soon as you start to drag a CD in MacOS). I would be *extremely* surprised to hear that KDE didn't have a right-click eject menu option when I last used it seriously a decade ago. None of this need prevent the drive's physical eject button working - it should be possible for the o/s to be aware of that (as it is in Windows, for instance). Totally agree. I don't object to their being a clicky way to eject a CD; I object to it being the _only_ way. My CD/DVD drive is behind a sturdy sliding door. Sooner or later, I'm going to try to eject the disk with this door shut, with undefined results. I'd prefer not to get into dangerous habits. I'd be the first to admit that Macs have flaws, but this isn't one (or two) of them. The biggest flaw the Mac has is that it's a computer. ;-) It gets worse. If you double click on Audio Disc, it opens a window with the files uselessly displayed. I'll bet it doesn't display the actual files. Audio CDs don't have files, they have a single spiral of wav-like audio data. AIUI Linux desktops *present* audio CDs so that they *appear* as audio files, so that you can more conveniently drag and drop them to your MP3 music collection. Ah, right. I dragged a track to the desktop, which converted it to .wav. When I tried to play it, it was a cacophony, a sort of mixture of two streams one to seconds apart. I think I'm better just playing the disk with Aqualung. Typically there is a preference which allows you to choose between copying them as MP3, AAC, FLAC c - the audio data will be transcoded to the selected format only after you drag drop the icons in another folder. Stroller. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Tuesday 31 May 2011 14:45:47 Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 13:46 on Monday 30 May 2011, Mick did opine thusly: e17 is the best desktop for me, because it is extremely light footed, has enough eye candy (if you need that) and it is relatively configurable. Until it becomes stable you'll need to compile it from svn. Alan, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by huge mind shift? Unless my mind shifted and wasn't aware of it! :)) I meant that for someone using e17 for the very first time they will find something quite unfamiliar. I know what you're mean! I am still looking at the advanced Fonts config menu waiting for inspiration ... one day I hope it will make sense how that GUI is meant to work. They'll also need to get into raster's head to some degree too :-) :-) -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
, though unproven, at 00:05 on Thursday 02 June 2011, Mick did opine thusly: On Tuesday 31 May 2011 14:45:47 Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 13:46 on Monday 30 May 2011, Mick did opine thusly: e17 is the best desktop for me, because it is extremely light footed, has enough eye candy (if you need that) and it is relatively configurable. Until it becomes stable you'll need to compile it from svn. Alan, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by huge mind shift? Unless my mind shifted and wasn't aware of it! :)) I meant that for someone using e17 for the very first time they will find something quite unfamiliar. I know what you're mean! I am still looking at the advanced Fonts config menu waiting for inspiration ... one day I hope it will make sense how that GUI is meant to work. It sort of works something like this: edje does themes, one of it's tricks is to have standard theme-able elements. Title bars look like this, menu text looks like that, and so on The advanced config lets you change these settings to be different to what is coded into the theme in use. Which is all very fine and dandy - the same approach would let you change the images used for min, max, close buttons for example. Except I've never actually seen the dialog DO something. I've fiddled with various settings and ... nothing changes. So I dunno. Maybe it's dead code and not a single dev has ever noticed. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Wednesday 01 Jun 2011 23:50:18 Alan McKinnon wrote: , though unproven, at 00:05 on Thursday 02 June 2011, Mick did opine thusly: On Tuesday 31 May 2011 14:45:47 Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 13:46 on Monday 30 May 2011, Mick did opine thusly: e17 is the best desktop for me, because it is extremely light footed, has enough eye candy (if you need that) and it is relatively configurable. Until it becomes stable you'll need to compile it from svn. Alan, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by huge mind shift? Unless my mind shifted and wasn't aware of it! :)) I meant that for someone using e17 for the very first time they will find something quite unfamiliar. I know what you're mean! I am still looking at the advanced Fonts config menu waiting for inspiration ... one day I hope it will make sense how that GUI is meant to work. It sort of works something like this: edje does themes, one of it's tricks is to have standard theme-able elements. Title bars look like this, menu text looks like that, and so on The advanced config lets you change these settings to be different to what is coded into the theme in use. Which is all very fine and dandy - the same approach would let you change the images used for min, max, close buttons for example. Except I've never actually seen the dialog DO something. I've fiddled with various settings and ... nothing changes. So I dunno. Maybe it's dead code and not a single dev has ever noticed. I'm staying clear of it for now, because it does not have a 'reset to defaults' button. My confusion is that I can click to an item on the left, e.g. Menu Item but there is no font on the right already highlighted to show what is the default font for the selected item. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
Apparently, though unproven, at 13:46 on Monday 30 May 2011, Mick did opine thusly: e17 is the best desktop for me, because it is extremely light footed, has enough eye candy (if you need that) and it is relatively configurable. Until it becomes stable you'll need to compile it from svn. Alan, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by huge mind shift? Unless my mind shifted and wasn't aware of it! :)) I meant that for someone using e17 for the very first time they will find something quite unfamiliar. They'll also need to get into raster's head to some degree too :-) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
on 05/29/2011 11:49 PM Alan Mackenzie wrote the following: So, I thought, maybe this feature is another pesky group restriction. So I tried adding myself to group disk, then to group cdrw, Try adding yourself to plugdev group also.
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
Hi, Alan. On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 11:56:10PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 23:37 on Sunday 29 May 2011, Alan Mackenzie did opine thusly: Hi, Neil. On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 10:13:08PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sun, 29 May 2011 22:58:39 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: With a CD in the drive and gnome running, please post the output of mount cat /etc/mtab And the output of eject -v acm@acm ~ $ eject -v eject: using default device `cdrom' eject: device name is `cdrom' eject: expanded name is `/dev/cdrom' eject: `/dev/cdrom' is a link to `/dev/sr0' eject: `/dev/sr0' is not mounted eject: `/dev/sr0' is not a mount point eject: `/dev/sr0' is not a multipartition device eject: trying to eject `/dev/sr0' using CD-ROM eject command eject: CD-ROM eject command failed eject: trying to eject `/dev/sr0' using SCSI commands eject: SCSI eject succeeded (This was run as a normal user, not root.) Hey, eject -v works! :-) It's still not quite ideal, though. My money says you've been hit by the Gnome Borg - where you are only permitted to do things the way the gnome devs have deemed to be appropriate and TheOneTrueWay(tm). After all, you are just a user, what do you know? The devs know better, you must trust them! You're dashed right. I now understand what's happening: When a CD is inserted and Gnome detects it as an audio CD, the CD drive is locked. At the same time, a stupid icon Audio Disc appears on the screen. Right clicking on Audio Disc gives an eject menu point. YUCK!!! If I'd've wanted an Apple Macintosh, I know where to buy one. I just want my drive's eject button to work. It gets worse. If you double click on Audio Disc, it opens a window with the files uselessly displayed. Right clicking gives a menu point unmount (I kid you not), as though a filesystem were mounted. This unlocks the drive. I feel like screaming. ARHHH I can't be of much more help to you, I don't use Gnome at all (see above) Can't say I blame you. What's the choice, though? I appreciate the spare uncluttered desktop of Gnome. Last time I tried KDE (about 7 years ago) it was anything but uncluttered. I tried XFCE briefly, but couldn't get it to run stably. Besides, it was missing an application to switch between keyboard layouts, something I absolutely need. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
Apparently, though unproven, at 12:10 on Monday 30 May 2011, Alan Mackenzie did opine thusly: My money says you've been hit by the Gnome Borg - where you are only permitted to do things the way the gnome devs have deemed to be appropriate and TheOneTrueWay(tm). After all, you are just a user, what do you know? The devs know better, you must trust them! You're dashed right. I now understand what's happening: When a CD is inserted and Gnome detects it as an audio CD, the CD drive is locked. At the same time, a stupid icon Audio Disc appears on the screen. I don't understand why they lock it. If you can physically press the eject button the drive should open because you can just as easily put a paperclip in the little hole and force it open. A case can be made for locking the software controls - with software, open the drive using the matching command to what loads it. But not physical controls Right clicking on Audio Disc gives an eject menu point. YUCK!!! If I'd've wanted an Apple Macintosh, I know where to buy one. I just want my drive's eject button to work. It gets worse. If you double click on Audio Disc, it opens a window with the files uselessly displayed. Right clicking gives a menu point unmount (I kid you not), as though a filesystem were mounted. This unlocks the drive. I feel like screaming. ARHHH I feel your pain I can't be of much more help to you, I don't use Gnome at all (see above) Can't say I blame you. What's the choice, though? I appreciate the spare uncluttered desktop of Gnome. Last time I tried KDE (about 7 years ago) it was anything but uncluttered. I tried XFCE briefly, but couldn't get it to run stably. Besides, it was missing an application to switch between keyboard layouts, something I absolutely need. I hear good things about XFCE these days. If you haven't tried it lately, it might be worth a new look. And you can always write a small script to change your keyboard layout if there's no gui app. Not as convenient as a systray icon, but probably a small price to pay if everything else suits your needs There's also other DEs like *box and e17. e17 requires a huge mind shift in how you perceive the desktop but once you get your head around it, it becomes strangely addictive. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Monday 30 May 2011 11:33:02 Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 12:10 on Monday 30 May 2011, Alan Mackenzie Can't say I blame you. What's the choice, though? I appreciate the spare uncluttered desktop of Gnome. Last time I tried KDE (about 7 years ago) it was anything but uncluttered. I tried XFCE briefly, but couldn't get it to run stably. Besides, it was missing an application to switch between keyboard layouts, something I absolutely need. I hear good things about XFCE these days. If you haven't tried it lately, it might be worth a new look. And you can always write a small script to change your keyboard layout if there's no gui app. Not as convenient as a systray icon, but probably a small price to pay if everything else suits your needs There's also other DEs like *box and e17. e17 requires a huge mind shift in how you perceive the desktop but once you get your head around it, it becomes strangely addictive. KDE has changed *significantly* from 7 years ago. It will be a completely new experience for you and there are a number of LiveCDs/DVDs you can use to try it out and see if it meets your needs. Fluxbox which I have been using for years is ultimately configurable, but development is not really breathtaking and it does not do compiz or other composite eye-candy. It's fast, but some of its edges are jagged compared to more modern WMs. e17 is the best desktop for me, because it is extremely light footed, has enough eye candy (if you need that) and it is relatively configurable. Until it becomes stable you'll need to compile it from svn. Alan, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by huge mind shift? Unless my mind shifted and wasn't aware of it! :)) -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Sun, 29 May 2011 20:49:05 + Alan Mackenzie a...@muc.de wrote: Having played a CD, I discover there's no way to eject it; the physical button on the drive is inactive until I exit from Gnome, which is clearly suboptimal. Try checking to see if any program has a file open in the cd. If you open a terminal and change the current dir to one on the cd, it will lock it as well as a open file. I had fun and games with that ones. If all else fails you could turn the lock off with: echo 0 /proc/sys/dev/cdrom/lock I'm sure you know that you can add the setting to /etc/sysctl.conf
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On 30/5/2011, at 11:10am, Alan Mackenzie wrote: ... Right clicking on Audio Disc gives an eject menu point. YUCK!!! If I'd've wanted an Apple Macintosh, I know where to buy one. I just want my drive's eject button to work. Your Linux box isn't working, and you're complaining about Macs? That seems a little inappropriate. Let me assure you: when a Mac has a hardware button, it will work just fine. It won't be disabled for no reason. This is why I use Mac for the desktop. Because when I get home after a hard day's work fixing computers I don't want to have to do a bat shit crazy amount of work to keep things working [1]. I don't want the kind of grief you've been experiencing with this issue. I'd *love* to use Linux on the desktop, but it's stuff like this that discourages me. Right-clicking a CD to get an eject menu is very well-established across all UIs. It's better established in Windows, in fact (since c 95), than it is in Macs, which used to be criticised because one dragged the CD to the trash (actually, the Trash icon changes to an eject icon as soon as you start to drag a CD in MacOS). I would be *extremely* surprised to hear that KDE didn't have a right-click eject menu option when I last used it seriously a decade ago. None of this need prevent the drive's physical eject button working - it should be possible for the o/s to be aware of that (as it is in Windows, for instance). I'd be the first to admit that Macs have flaws, but this isn't one (or two) of them. It gets worse. If you double click on Audio Disc, it opens a window with the files uselessly displayed. I'll bet it doesn't display the actual files. Audio CDs don't have files, they have a single spiral of wav-like audio data. AIUI Linux desktops *present* audio CDs so that they *appear* as audio files, so that you can more conveniently drag and drop them to your MP3 music collection. Typically there is a preference which allows you to choose between copying them as MP3, AAC, FLAC c - the audio data will be transcoded to the selected format only after you drag drop the icons in another folder. Stroller. [1] Alan McKinnon, 28 May 2011 9:06:34 am GMT+01:00
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On 30/5/2011, at 11:33am, Alan McKinnon wrote: You're dashed right. I now understand what's happening: When a CD is inserted and Gnome detects it as an audio CD, the CD drive is locked. At the same time, a stupid icon Audio Disc appears on the screen. I don't understand why they lock it. If you can physically press the eject button the drive should open because you can just as easily put a paperclip in the little hole and force it open. A case can be made for locking the software controls - with software, open the drive using the matching command to what loads it. But not physical controls The button *isn't* fully a physical control, though. It reports to the o/s I've been pressed and the o/s should open the drive, as long as (for instance) you're not in the middle of burning a CD (which would ruin the CD; clearly pressing the button at such a time would be accidental; the user would have to cancel through the on-screen burning dialogue which would normally ask are you really sure?) Ejecting the disk with the paper clip is liable to scratch the CD, if the disk is being read. That's why the button isn't as fully physical as the paper clip method, that's why the paper clip method should be reserved for emergencies and that's why the o/s may choose to lock the eject button. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On 31/5/2011, at 12:26am, Stroller wrote: On 30/5/2011, at 11:10am, Alan Mackenzie wrote: It gets worse. If you double click on Audio Disc, it opens a window with the files uselessly displayed. I'll bet it doesn't display the actual files. Audio CDs don't have files, they have a single spiral of wav-like audio data. AIUI Linux desktops *present* audio CDs so that they *appear* as audio files, so that you can more conveniently drag and drop them to your MP3 music collection. Typically there is a preference which allows you to choose between copying them as MP3, AAC, FLAC c - the audio data will be transcoded to the selected format only after you drag drop the icons in another folder. I meant to say: Most people don't find this icon view useless, as it allows one to select and play (or copy) a single track at a time. It is a useful representation of the songs on the CD. Most people find it *more useful* to be able to drag and drop the tracks to their MP3s folder, because they don't like having to physically find a CD, looking through hundreds of disks, and insert it into the drive. Far easier to drag and drop once, then just search for fiona apple in Gnome's file viewer or in their music player. TL;DR: you're sounding dangerously like a grumpy old man. In this latter case: it's not necessarily bad just because it's unfamiliar to you. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
I can't be of much more help to you, I don't use Gnome at all (see above)
Can't say I blame you. What's the choice, though? I appreciate the
spare uncluttered desktop of Gnome. Last time I tried KDE (about 7 years
ago) it was anything but uncluttered. I tried XFCE briefly, but couldn't
get it to run stably. Besides, it was missing an application to switch
between keyboard layouts, something I absolutely need.
I hear good things about XFCE these days. If you haven't tried it lately, it
might be worth a new look. And you can always write a small script to change
your keyboard layout if there's no gui app. Not as convenient as a systray
icon, but probably a small price to pay if everything else suits your needs
My basic response was in fact that I now use XFCE, and I basically do
not have any auto-mounting software even installed. I don't mind
mounting and umounting manually for some stuff, and then using udev
rules and scripts for like my regular USB items (harddisks, flash
memory...).
So yeah, you go mount the CD yourself, but then the eject button will
work if you just set up a script in the very worst case, as long as
all permissions are satisfied (group, whatever). Usually an eject
call on the device will work fine for the hotkey. Just use some
keyboard tweaking program to fix it up. And for me that's just fine.
Other people may prefer it differently. But auto-mounting will do
annoying stuff on my laptop every time it goes to sleep and wakes up
and...it's just annoying to me personally.
If you don't have much experience setting up you own custom
'automonting' tools, I'll give just a couple examples. I think with
the comments it's clear enough.
daid@titan ~ % cat /etc/udev/rules.d/10-local.rules
# external USB, Seagate FreeAgent GO aka cyclops
SUBSYSTEMS==usb, DRIVERS==usb, ATTRS{serial}==
5LZ2XQJ5, SYMLINK+=cyclops ACTION==add,
RUN+=/etc/udev/scripts/mount_cyclops.sh
daid@titan ~ % more /etc/udev/scripts/mount_cyclops.sh
#!/bin/bash
#mount Seagate FreeAgent Go with serial 5LZ2XQJ5 to /mnt/cyclops on ACTION='add'
mount -t ext3 /dev/cyclops /mnt/cyclops
chown root:users /mnt/cyclops
chmod 775 /mnt/cyclops
daid@titan ~ % ls -l /etc/udev/scripts/mount_cyclops.sh
-rwxr--r-- 1 root root 186 Apr 27 04:21 /etc/udev/scripts/mount_cyclops.sh
daid@titan ~ % ls -l /etc/udev/rules.d/10-local.rules
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1409 May 25 13:43 /etc/udev/rules.d/10-local.rules
The udev rule will do a tricky thing making the /dev/cyclops symlink
so it doesn't matter what *order* the device was connected. Rather
than 'naming' it like in some other operating systems, you just give
it a static mount point. When you're done, just manually umount the
mount point.
Cheers,
daid
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
daid@titan ~ % cat /etc/udev/rules.d/10-local.rules
# external USB, Seagate FreeAgent GO aka cyclops
SUBSYSTEMS==usb, DRIVERS==usb, ATTRS{serial}==
5LZ2XQJ5, SYMLINK+=cyclops ACTION==add,
RUN+=/etc/udev/scripts/mount_cyclops.sh
Sorry, but make sure that the one entry (begins with SUBSYSTEMS) is on
*only one line* since that is a general requirement for a udev rule
format (but some email programs may auto-indent or mis-represent the
single line, but this is a necessary detail, just like makefiles don't
paste well from html either due to whitespace issues).
~daid.
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 12:10:02AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 23:37 on Sunday 29 May 2011, Alan Mackenzie did opine thusly: Hi, Neil. On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 10:13:08PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sun, 29 May 2011 22:58:39 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: With a CD in the drive and gnome running, please post the output of mount cat /etc/mtab And the output of eject -v acm@acm ~ $ eject -v eject: using default device `cdrom' eject: device name is `cdrom' eject: expanded name is `/dev/cdrom' eject: `/dev/cdrom' is a link to `/dev/sr0' eject: `/dev/sr0' is not mounted eject: `/dev/sr0' is not a mount point eject: `/dev/sr0' is not a multipartition device eject: trying to eject `/dev/sr0' using CD-ROM eject command eject: CD-ROM eject command failed eject: trying to eject `/dev/sr0' using SCSI commands eject: SCSI eject succeeded (This was run as a normal user, not root.) Hey, eject -v works! :-) It's still not quite ideal, though. My money says you've been hit by the Gnome Borg - where you are only permitted to do things the way the gnome devs have deemed to be appropriate and TheOneTrueWay(tm). After all, you are just a user, what do you know? The devs know better, you must trust them! I can't be of much more help to you, I don't use Gnome at all (see above) The only real reason gnome exists is so kde4 users can have someone to sneer at and look down upon, while they frantcally attempt to make kde4 actually do something other than hog RAM and feed their OCD. :) -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
Apparently, though unproven, at 22:49 on Sunday 29 May 2011, Alan Mackenzie did opine thusly: Hi, Gentoo. I've now managed to play CDs in Gnome, primarily by adding myself to the cdrom group. I do wish all these restrictions, enforced by group membership, could be switched off. Having played a CD, I discover there's no way to eject it; the physical button on the drive is inactive until I exit from Gnome, which is clearly suboptimal. However, if I start Gnome as root, I can eject a CD trouble freely. But running as root is also suboptimal. So, I thought, maybe this feature is another pesky group restriction. So I tried adding myself to group disk, then to group cdrw, all to no avail. I still couldn't eject the disk. With a CD in the drive and gnome running, please post the output of mount cat /etc/mtab -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Sun, 29 May 2011 22:58:39 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: With a CD in the drive and gnome running, please post the output of mount cat /etc/mtab And the output of eject -v -- Neil Bothwick Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
Hi, Alan. On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 10:58:39PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 22:49 on Sunday 29 May 2011, Alan Mackenzie did opine thusly: Hi, Gentoo. I've now managed to play CDs in Gnome, primarily by adding myself to the cdrom group. I do wish all these restrictions, enforced by group membership, could be switched off. Having played a CD, I discover there's no way to eject it; the physical button on the drive is inactive until I exit from Gnome, which is clearly suboptimal. However, if I start Gnome as root, I can eject a CD trouble freely. But running as root is also suboptimal. So, I thought, maybe this feature is another pesky group restriction. So I tried adding myself to group disk, then to group cdrw, all to no avail. I still couldn't eject the disk. With a CD in the drive and gnome running, please post the output of mount root@acm ~ # mount rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) /dev/root on / type ext2 (rw,noatime,errors=continue) proc on /proc type proc (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) rc-svcdir on /lib64/rc/init.d type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,size=1024k,mode=755) sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) debugfs on /sys/kernel/debug type debugfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) udev on /dev type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,relatime,size=10240k,mode=755) devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620) shm on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) /dev/mapper/vg-usr on /usr type ext3 (rw,noatime,commit=0) /dev/mapper/vg-usrportage on /usr/portage type ext2 (rw,noatime) /dev/mapper/vg-usrportagedistfiles on /usr/portage/distfiles type ext2 (rw,noatime) /dev/mapper/vg-usrsrc on /usr/src type ext3 (rw,noatime,commit=0) /dev/mapper/vg-home on /home type ext3 (rw,noatime,commit=0) /dev/mapper/vg-opt on /opt type ext3 (rw,noatime,commit=0) /dev/mapper/vg-var on /var type ext3 (rw,noatime,commit=0) /dev/mapper/vg-varspoolmail on /var/spool/mail type ext3 (rw,noatime,commit=0) /dev/mapper/vg-varspoolnews on /var/spool/news type reiserfs (rw,noatime) /dev/mapper/vg-iso on /iso type ext2 (rw,noatime) /dev/mapper/vg-old on /old type ext2 (rw,noatime) /dev/mapper/vg-vg--backup on /backup type ext2 (rw,noatime) usbfs on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,devmode=0664,devgid=85) binfmt_misc on /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc type binfmt_misc (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev) cat /etc/mtab root@acm ~ # cat /etc/mtab rootfs / rootfs rw 0 0 /dev/root / ext2 rw,noatime,errors=continue 0 0 proc /proc proc rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 rc-svcdir /lib64/rc/init.d tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,size=1024k,mode=755 0 0 sysfs /sys sysfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 debugfs /sys/kernel/debug debugfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 udev /dev tmpfs rw,nosuid,relatime,size=10240k,mode=755 0 0 devpts /dev/pts devpts rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620 0 0 shm /dev/shm tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-usr /usr ext3 rw,noatime,commit=0 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-usrportage /usr/portage ext2 rw,noatime 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-usrportagedistfiles /usr/portage/distfiles ext2 rw,noatime 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-usrsrc /usr/src ext3 rw,noatime,commit=0 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-home /home ext3 rw,noatime,commit=0 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-opt /opt ext3 rw,noatime,commit=0 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-var /var ext3 rw,noatime,commit=0 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-varspoolmail /var/spool/mail ext3 rw,noatime,commit=0 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-varspoolnews /var/spool/news reiserfs rw,noatime 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-iso /iso ext2 rw,noatime 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-old /old ext2 rw,noatime 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-vg--backup /backup ext2 rw,noatime 0 0 usbfs /proc/bus/usb usbfs rw,noexec,nosuid,devmode=0664,devgid=85 0 0 binfmt_misc /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc binfmt_misc rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev 0 0 -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
Apparently, though unproven, at 23:20 on Sunday 29 May 2011, Alan Mackenzie did opine thusly: Hi, Alan. On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 10:58:39PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 22:49 on Sunday 29 May 2011, Alan Mackenzie did opine thusly: Hi, Gentoo. I've now managed to play CDs in Gnome, primarily by adding myself to the cdrom group. I do wish all these restrictions, enforced by group membership, could be switched off. Having played a CD, I discover there's no way to eject it; the physical button on the drive is inactive until I exit from Gnome, which is clearly suboptimal. However, if I start Gnome as root, I can eject a CD trouble freely. But running as root is also suboptimal. So, I thought, maybe this feature is another pesky group restriction. So I tried adding myself to group disk, then to group cdrw, all to no avail. I still couldn't eject the disk. With a CD in the drive and gnome running, please post the output of mount Well that didn't work too well - they're not listed. Obviously gnome doesn't use mount/mtab/fstab to do it's mounting thing. Time for Neil's plan B eject -v for comparison, do it as a user and then as root root@acm ~ # mount rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) /dev/root on / type ext2 (rw,noatime,errors=continue) proc on /proc type proc (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) rc-svcdir on /lib64/rc/init.d type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,size=1024k,mode=755) sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) debugfs on /sys/kernel/debug type debugfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) udev on /dev type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,relatime,size=10240k,mode=755) devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620) shm on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) /dev/mapper/vg-usr on /usr type ext3 (rw,noatime,commit=0) /dev/mapper/vg-usrportage on /usr/portage type ext2 (rw,noatime) /dev/mapper/vg-usrportagedistfiles on /usr/portage/distfiles type ext2 (rw,noatime) /dev/mapper/vg-usrsrc on /usr/src type ext3 (rw,noatime,commit=0) /dev/mapper/vg-home on /home type ext3 (rw,noatime,commit=0) /dev/mapper/vg-opt on /opt type ext3 (rw,noatime,commit=0) /dev/mapper/vg-var on /var type ext3 (rw,noatime,commit=0) /dev/mapper/vg-varspoolmail on /var/spool/mail type ext3 (rw,noatime,commit=0) /dev/mapper/vg-varspoolnews on /var/spool/news type reiserfs (rw,noatime) /dev/mapper/vg-iso on /iso type ext2 (rw,noatime) /dev/mapper/vg-old on /old type ext2 (rw,noatime) /dev/mapper/vg-vg--backup on /backup type ext2 (rw,noatime) usbfs on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,devmode=0664,devgid=85) binfmt_misc on /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc type binfmt_misc (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev) cat /etc/mtab root@acm ~ # cat /etc/mtab rootfs / rootfs rw 0 0 /dev/root / ext2 rw,noatime,errors=continue 0 0 proc /proc proc rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 rc-svcdir /lib64/rc/init.d tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,size=1024k,mode=755 0 0 sysfs /sys sysfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 debugfs /sys/kernel/debug debugfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 udev /dev tmpfs rw,nosuid,relatime,size=10240k,mode=755 0 0 devpts /dev/pts devpts rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620 0 0 shm /dev/shm tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-usr /usr ext3 rw,noatime,commit=0 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-usrportage /usr/portage ext2 rw,noatime 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-usrportagedistfiles /usr/portage/distfiles ext2 rw,noatime 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-usrsrc /usr/src ext3 rw,noatime,commit=0 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-home /home ext3 rw,noatime,commit=0 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-opt /opt ext3 rw,noatime,commit=0 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-var /var ext3 rw,noatime,commit=0 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-varspoolmail /var/spool/mail ext3 rw,noatime,commit=0 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-varspoolnews /var/spool/news reiserfs rw,noatime 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-iso /iso ext2 rw,noatime 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-old /old ext2 rw,noatime 0 0 /dev/mapper/vg-vg--backup /backup ext2 rw,noatime 0 0 usbfs /proc/bus/usb usbfs rw,noexec,nosuid,devmode=0664,devgid=85 0 0 binfmt_misc /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc binfmt_misc rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev 0 0 -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
Hi, Neil. On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 10:13:08PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sun, 29 May 2011 22:58:39 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: With a CD in the drive and gnome running, please post the output of mount cat /etc/mtab And the output of eject -v acm@acm ~ $ eject -v eject: using default device `cdrom' eject: device name is `cdrom' eject: expanded name is `/dev/cdrom' eject: `/dev/cdrom' is a link to `/dev/sr0' eject: `/dev/sr0' is not mounted eject: `/dev/sr0' is not a mount point eject: `/dev/sr0' is not a multipartition device eject: trying to eject `/dev/sr0' using CD-ROM eject command eject: CD-ROM eject command failed eject: trying to eject `/dev/sr0' using SCSI commands eject: SCSI eject succeeded (This was run as a normal user, not root.) Hey, eject -v works! :-) It's still not quite ideal, though. -- Neil Bothwick Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
Apparently, though unproven, at 23:37 on Sunday 29 May 2011, Alan Mackenzie did opine thusly: Hi, Neil. On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 10:13:08PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sun, 29 May 2011 22:58:39 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: With a CD in the drive and gnome running, please post the output of mount cat /etc/mtab And the output of eject -v acm@acm ~ $ eject -v eject: using default device `cdrom' eject: device name is `cdrom' eject: expanded name is `/dev/cdrom' eject: `/dev/cdrom' is a link to `/dev/sr0' eject: `/dev/sr0' is not mounted eject: `/dev/sr0' is not a mount point eject: `/dev/sr0' is not a multipartition device eject: trying to eject `/dev/sr0' using CD-ROM eject command eject: CD-ROM eject command failed eject: trying to eject `/dev/sr0' using SCSI commands eject: SCSI eject succeeded (This was run as a normal user, not root.) Hey, eject -v works! :-) It's still not quite ideal, though. My money says you've been hit by the Gnome Borg - where you are only permitted to do things the way the gnome devs have deemed to be appropriate and TheOneTrueWay(tm). After all, you are just a user, what do you know? The devs know better, you must trust them! I can't be of much more help to you, I don't use Gnome at all (see above) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I eject an audio CD inside Gnome?
On Sunday 29 May 2011 22:56:10 Alan McKinnon wrote: My money says you've been hit by the Gnome Borg - where you are only permitted to do things the way the gnome devs have deemed to be appropriate and TheOneTrueWay(tm). After all, you are just a user, what do you know? The devs know better, you must trust them! Just like Windows. -- Rgds Peter
