Re: [gentoo-user] opengl (?) weirdness in wine
On Thursday 02 March 2006 04:58 Holly Bostick was like: I am (at this very moment, actually) upgrading to Xorg 7.0, after which I'm going to enable the r300 drivers (I have a 9800SE), and if those don't help, I'm going to see if the fglrx drivers work better under 7.0 than under 6.8.2. I have just upgraded to X.org 7.0 and there is still a problem (using fglrx) with black rectangles, although not as bad. However the slow typing problem has become much less severe, which means (Hooray!) that Scribe under wine is now usable. While I was waiting to get the new xorg version running I tried to run the program remotely using Apple X11 (Panther version) on a clapped out Wallstreet II Powerbook. It was hard to see exactly what was going on with speed because of an unrelated problem to do with fonts, but it certainly looked like the boxes were getting drawn very slowly indeed. As Apple X11 is based on an earlier version of XFree86, this suggests that the slow screen rendering problem was with the version of XFree/X.org used, rather than with fglrx as such. Any many thanks, Holly, for showing me the way. Robert -- Robert Persson Conspiracy Bears: Once upon a time there were lots of conspiracy bears... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] opengl (?) weirdness in wine
Robert Persson schreef: I am finding that with one particular windows application running under wine the graphics are incredibly slow. My question is: Is this something to do with wine that I just have to live with, or could it be connected to other things on my system, such as the xserver? snip The problems are: 1. Typed text gets to the screen pretty slowly - 200 characters per second or so. However pasted text appears more or less instantly. 2. Windows are drawn very slowly - which is pretty annoying because scribe opens and shuts a lot of windows. 3. when scribe starts, a considerable part of the screen (both inside and outside the application windows) ends up covered in black rectangles. These disappear when something is dragged over them or a button underneath them is clicked. 4. There is a slowdown in opengl which persists even when scribe and all wine-related processes have terminated. Before starting scribe glxgears will clock around 960 fps, whereas afterwards it will only clock up 750 fps or so. I am using the following versions of things: x11-base/xorg-x11-6.8.99.15-r4 app-emulation/wine-0.9.8-r1 x11-drivers/ati-drivers-8.22.5 Robert, I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but there's a high chance that you have just run into one of the reasons that people say the ATI drivers suck. I am also an ATI user, and to be flatly honest, there are some things (effects, usually bad ones) that you *will* get when using an ATI card under Wine or Cedega that you *won't* get while using another brand of video card (not even specifically nVidia, but really just any other brand with decent drivers). I have several programs that I run under Wine/Cedega that behave oddly or run significantly slower than reports of that same program running with nVidia cards. Because the drivers really are not good, and don't do what they are supposed to/expected to in many respects, for one, and because the driver team has not yet reached the point where they're optimizing for speed (they're trying to get the drivers stable first), for another. So if you have another brand of video card available to you, I would suggest you give it a whirl and see if the problem persists. It may not. That said, I suspect you do have an issue with your X server as well... the 6.8.99-blahblahblah series is buggy and unmaintained. I tried it myself and had even more problems than I did with 6.8.2-r6, which I reverted to. So the xserver version you're using may well be excaberating the problems the drivers already have. I am (at this very moment, actually) upgrading to Xorg 7.0, after which I'm going to enable the r300 drivers (I have a 9800SE), and if those don't help, I'm going to see if the fglrx drivers work better under 7.0 than under 6.8.2. If not, I'm buying an nVidia card (my birthday is coming, and I am just sick of this after nearly two years; I've had enough of the does not work with ATI cards list on the Cedega Release notes). It's an option to take under serious consideration (upgrading to 7.0 and switching to the open source drivers). I'll keep you posted on my progress -- meaning, if Wine seems to work better under these conditions. Also consider that Wine is doing a lot of work as they close in on 1.0 (which might be as soon as April if the release schedule holds up), and the devs are specifically working on ATI issues (I lurk on wine-dev, and some of the devs working on wine3d and direct x do have ATI cards). Now I'm sure that scribe doesn't use d3d or OGL (though it might, for all I know), but surely any work on the directx backend will have some effect on things like draw speed and rendering. So there's hope from that end as well. In any case, hope this helps to some extent. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] opengl (?) weirdness in wine
First off, I'm fairly certain that this application doesn't use OpenGL, so that will not be of any concern, however it seems that if you have an ATI card, you'd want to use the proprietary drivers from the ATI website to increase your performance. This would increase your 2D performance as well. I haven't heard about any specific slowness related to ATI cards running 2D applications, so it might be a bug in Wine itself. Please visit the WineHQ.org website and submit a bugzilla report to see what they can come up with. Even if they don't know right away, the problem is noted and they can work on it in the future.Thanks!JBDubbs On 3/2/06, Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Persson schreef: I am finding that with one particular windows application running under wine the graphics are incredibly slow. My question is: Is this something to do with wine that I just have to live with, or could it be connected to other things on my system, such as the xserver?snip The problems are: 1. Typed text gets to the screen pretty slowly - 200 characters per second or so. However pasted text appears more or less instantly. 2. Windows are drawn very slowly - which is pretty annoying because scribe opens and shuts a lot of windows. 3. when scribe starts, a considerable part of the screen (both inside and outside the application windows) ends up covered in black rectangles. These disappear when something is dragged over them or a button underneath them is clicked. 4. There is a slowdown in opengl which persists even when scribe and all wine-related processes have terminated. Before starting scribe glxgears will clock around 960 fps, whereas afterwards it will only clock up 750 fps or so. I am using the following versions of things: x11-base/xorg-x11-6.8.99.15-r4 app-emulation/wine-0.9.8-r1 x11-drivers/ati-drivers-8.22.5 Robert, I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but there's a high chancethat you have just run into one of the reasons that people say the ATI drivers suck.I am also an ATI user, and to be flatly honest, there are some things(effects, usually bad ones) that you *will* get when using an ATI cardunder Wine or Cedega that you *won't* get while using another brand of video card (not even specifically nVidia, but really just any otherbrand with decent drivers). I have several programs that I run underWine/Cedega that behave oddly or run significantly slower than reports of that same program running with nVidia cards. Because the driversreally are not good, and don't do what they are supposed to/expected toin many respects, for one, and because the driver team has not yetreached the point where they're optimizing for speed (they're trying to get the drivers stable first), for another.So if you have another brand of video card available to you, I wouldsuggest you give it a whirl and see if the problem persists. It may not.That said, I suspect you do have an issue with your X server as well... the 6.8.99-blahblahblah series is buggy and unmaintained. I tried itmyself and had even more problems than I did with 6.8.2-r6, which Ireverted to. So the xserver version you're using may well beexcaberating the problems the drivers already have. I am (at this very moment, actually) upgrading to Xorg 7.0, after whichI'm going to enable the r300 drivers (I have a 9800SE), and if thosedon't help, I'm going to see if the fglrx drivers work better under 7.0than under 6.8.2. If not, I'm buying an nVidia card (my birthday iscoming, and I am just sick of this after nearly two years; I've hadenough of the does not work with ATI cards list on the Cedega Release notes).It's an option to take under serious consideration (upgrading to 7.0 andswitching to the open source drivers). I'll keep you posted on myprogress -- meaning, if Wine seems to work better under these conditions. Also consider that Wine is doing a lot of work as they close in on 1.0(which might be as soon as April if the release schedule holds up), andthe devs are specifically working on ATI issues (I lurk on wine-dev, and some of the devs working on wine3d and direct x do have ATI cards). NowI'm sure that scribe doesn't use d3d or OGL (though it might, for all Iknow), but surely any work on the directx backend will have some effect on things like draw speed and rendering. So there's hope from that endas well.In any case, hope this helps to some extent.Holly--gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list-- Jason Weisberger[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [gentoo-user] opengl (?) weirdness in wine
On Thursday 02 March 2006 08:08 Jason Weisberger was like: First off, I'm fairly certain that this application doesn't use OpenGL, so that will not be of any concern, however it seems that if you have an ATI card, you'd want to use the proprietary drivers from the ATI website to increase your performance. This would increase your 2D performance as well. I haven't heard about any specific slowness related to ATI cards running 2D applications, so it might be a bug in Wine itself. Please visit the WineHQ.org website and submit a bugzilla report to see what they can come up with. Even if they don't know right away, the problem is noted and they can work on it in the future. I am actually using the ati driver. Overall it has been an improvement on the x.org radeon driver, but, as Holly said, it still sucks a lot of the time. The x.org driver may be slow and hopeless at 3D, but it is reliable in other ways. I may try messing about with my x.org versions again. It worked before when another wine application was playing up in a similar way. That was what prompted me to upgrade to my current version. Robert -- Robert Persson Conspiracy Bears: Once upon a time there were lots of conspiracy bears... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
