Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd
Am Wed, 25 Jun 2014 21:33:02 -0400 schrieb gottl...@nyu.edu: On Tue, Jun 24 2014, Marc Joliet wrote: Am Mon, 23 Jun 2014 20:39:13 -0400 schrieb gottl...@nyu.edu: I think I had first misinterpreted the news msg, but want to be sure I do understand it correctly now. The message ends with All non-systemd users are recommended to choose between: # emerge --oneshot --noreplace 'sys-power/upower-pm-utils' or # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '=sys-power/upower-0.99.0' However, all systemd users are recommended to stay with sys-power/upower. I first read stay with sys-power/upower to mean systemd users should NOT do any of the two options for non-systemd users and let portage do its thing. However, portage want to replace upower with upower-pm-utils, which I am pretty sure is not intended for systemd users. Is the proper reading of the news message, that the systemd users should use the second option available for non-systemd users? Specifically am I to execute # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '=sys-power/upower-0.99.0' ? Um, personally, I think the message is extremely clear: non-systemd users should choose between the first two options, and systemd users should just stick with plain upower, regardless of version (although there is only one ATM, the older one is masked now). I am embarrassed to say that I am still having trouble with this upower business. My profile is .../gnome/systemd and I have the init=/usr/lib/systemd/systemd line GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX so I am using systemd. right now I have sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3 installed (the only version below 0.99) and sys-power/upower-pm-utils NOT installed. If I try to update world (see below), portage wants to install sys-power/upower-pm-utils and uninstall sys-power/upower. The output (below) suggests that gnome-shell requires this, but I read the gnome-shell ebuild as permitting my current sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3 as an alternative. If I try to # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '=sys-power/upower-0.99.0' I get a conflict since several gnome packages (e.g. gnome-shell) explicitly want upower-0.99 Am I supposed to package-mask sys-power/upower-pm-utils? The results shown are on a stable amd64 system (my previous msg concerned another system that I am slowly converting from testing to stable, but this msg only involves a fully stable system). thanks in advance, allan allan ~ # emerge --keep-going --update --changed-use @world These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild U ] x11-wm/sawfish-1.9.1-r2 [1.9.1-r1] USE=emacs%* nls -xinerama 2,556 kB [nomerge ] gnome-base/gnome-3.10.0:2.0 USE=bluetooth cdr classic cups extras -accessibility [nomerge ] gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2 USE=bluetooth i18n networkmanager (-openrc-force) PYTHON_TARGETS=python2_7 [nomerge ] sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2 USE=introspection -ios [blocks b ]sys-power/upower (sys-power/upower is blocking sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2) [uninstall ] sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3 USE=introspection -doc -ios [ebuild N ] sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2 USE=introspection -ios 0 kB If you synced recently, its probably because upower-0.9.23-r3 is hard masked, leaving no version of upower to satisfy the dependency, so it switches to upower-pm-utils instead. That would be my conclusion, at least. I thought that maybe upower-pm-utils and upower are identical at that version, but no, upower-pm-utils forces the pm-utils backend, whereas upower didn't. I suppose you could unmask that version of upower until Gnome 3.12 is stabilised, since gnome-shell-3.12.2 requires =upower-0.99, so you will upgrade automatically (I just checked and there's a relatively new bug on that, so who knows how long it will take). I would expect switching to upower-pm-utils to potentially cause problems with systemd, otherwise the recommendation wouldn't be what it is. Unless you don't actually use suspend or hibernate? Then it might not matter at all. Of course, I'm basing all of this on my understanding of the previous upower discussion, so maybe I missed something, and maybe the exact situation for Gnome users is slightly different. Perhaps a dev can chime in? HTH -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd
On Tue, Jun 24 2014, Marc Joliet wrote: Am Mon, 23 Jun 2014 20:39:13 -0400 schrieb gottl...@nyu.edu: I think I had first misinterpreted the news msg, but want to be sure I do understand it correctly now. The message ends with All non-systemd users are recommended to choose between: # emerge --oneshot --noreplace 'sys-power/upower-pm-utils' or # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '=sys-power/upower-0.99.0' However, all systemd users are recommended to stay with sys-power/upower. I first read stay with sys-power/upower to mean systemd users should NOT do any of the two options for non-systemd users and let portage do its thing. However, portage want to replace upower with upower-pm-utils, which I am pretty sure is not intended for systemd users. Is the proper reading of the news message, that the systemd users should use the second option available for non-systemd users? Specifically am I to execute # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '=sys-power/upower-0.99.0' ? Um, personally, I think the message is extremely clear: non-systemd users should choose between the first two options, and systemd users should just stick with plain upower, regardless of version (although there is only one ATM, the older one is masked now). I am embarrassed to say that I am still having trouble with this upower business. My profile is .../gnome/systemd and I have the init=/usr/lib/systemd/systemd line GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX so I am using systemd. right now I have sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3 installed (the only version below 0.99) and sys-power/upower-pm-utils NOT installed. If I try to update world (see below), portage wants to install sys-power/upower-pm-utils and uninstall sys-power/upower. The output (below) suggests that gnome-shell requires this, but I read the gnome-shell ebuild as permitting my current sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3 as an alternative. If I try to # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '=sys-power/upower-0.99.0' I get a conflict since several gnome packages (e.g. gnome-shell) explicitly want upower-0.99 Am I supposed to package-mask sys-power/upower-pm-utils? The results shown are on a stable amd64 system (my previous msg concerned another system that I am slowly converting from testing to stable, but this msg only involves a fully stable system). thanks in advance, allan allan ~ # emerge --keep-going --update --changed-use @world These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild U ] x11-wm/sawfish-1.9.1-r2 [1.9.1-r1] USE=emacs%* nls -xinerama 2,556 kB [nomerge ] gnome-base/gnome-3.10.0:2.0 USE=bluetooth cdr classic cups extras -accessibility [nomerge ] gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2 USE=bluetooth i18n networkmanager (-openrc-force) PYTHON_TARGETS=python2_7 [nomerge ] sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2 USE=introspection -ios [blocks b ]sys-power/upower (sys-power/upower is blocking sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2) [uninstall ] sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3 USE=introspection -doc -ios [ebuild N ] sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2 USE=introspection -ios 0 kB
Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd
Am Mon, 23 Jun 2014 20:39:13 -0400 schrieb gottl...@nyu.edu: I think I had first misinterpreted the news msg, but want to be sure I do understand it correctly now. The message ends with All non-systemd users are recommended to choose between: # emerge --oneshot --noreplace 'sys-power/upower-pm-utils' or # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '=sys-power/upower-0.99.0' However, all systemd users are recommended to stay with sys-power/upower. I first read stay with sys-power/upower to mean systemd users should NOT do any of the two options for non-systemd users and let portage do its thing. However, portage want to replace upower with upower-pm-utils, which I am pretty sure is not intended for systemd users. Is the proper reading of the news message, that the systemd users should use the second option available for non-systemd users? Specifically am I to execute # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '=sys-power/upower-0.99.0' ? Um, personally, I think the message is extremely clear: non-systemd users should choose between the first two options, and systemd users should just stick with plain upower, regardless of version (although there is only one ATM, the older one is masked now). thanks in advance, allan HTH -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd
On 06/24/2014 10:01:24 AM, Marc Joliet wrote: Am Mon, 23 Jun 2014 20:39:13 -0400 schrieb gottl...@nyu.edu: I think I had first misinterpreted the news msg, but want to be sure I do understand it correctly now. The message ends with All non-systemd users are recommended to choose between: # emerge --oneshot --noreplace 'sys-power/upower-pm-utils' or # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '=sys-power/upower-0.99.0' However, all systemd users are recommended to stay with sys-power/upower. I first read stay with sys-power/upower to mean systemd users should NOT do any of the two options for non-systemd users and let portage do its thing. However, portage want to replace upower with upower-pm-utils, which I am pretty sure is not intended for systemd users. Is the proper reading of the news message, that the systemd users should use the second option available for non-systemd users? Specifically am I to execute # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '=sys-power/upower-0.99.0' ? Um, personally, I think the message is extremely clear: non-systemd users should choose between the first two options, and systemd users should just stick with plain upower, regardless of version (although there is only one ATM, the older one is masked now). Hi, please tell me - what is a systemd user? I have systemd AND openrc installed here and I still don't use systemd as my init system. Am I a systemd user? I ask because I cannot installed some packages, some require upower-0.99.0 others fail with it. Thanks, Helmut
Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd
Am Tue, 24 Jun 2014 10:08:29 +0200 schrieb Helmut Jarausch jarau...@igpm.rwth-aachen.de: On 06/24/2014 10:01:24 AM, Marc Joliet wrote: Am Mon, 23 Jun 2014 20:39:13 -0400 schrieb gottl...@nyu.edu: I think I had first misinterpreted the news msg, but want to be sure I do understand it correctly now. The message ends with All non-systemd users are recommended to choose between: # emerge --oneshot --noreplace 'sys-power/upower-pm-utils' or # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '=sys-power/upower-0.99.0' However, all systemd users are recommended to stay with sys-power/upower. I first read stay with sys-power/upower to mean systemd users should NOT do any of the two options for non-systemd users and let portage do its thing. However, portage want to replace upower with upower-pm-utils, which I am pretty sure is not intended for systemd users. Is the proper reading of the news message, that the systemd users should use the second option available for non-systemd users? Specifically am I to execute # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '=sys-power/upower-0.99.0' ? Um, personally, I think the message is extremely clear: non-systemd users should choose between the first two options, and systemd users should just stick with plain upower, regardless of version (although there is only one ATM, the older one is masked now). Hi, please tell me - what is a systemd user? I have systemd AND openrc installed here and I still don't use systemd as my init system. Am I a systemd user? I ask because I cannot installed some packages, some require upower-0.99.0 others fail with it. Thanks, Helmut Well, in general, a user of software is to me somebody who actually uses it, and doesn't merely have it installed, doing nothing. So since you don't use it, you... don't use it ;) . In this particular case, my understanding from the previous discussion is that UPower expects certain functionality from systemd at runtime (IIRC it doesn't actually *need* systemd, it just assumes that it takes over the same functionality as pm-utils). So, specifically, a systemd user is to me (and probably to most people) somebody who *boots* with systemd. HTH -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd
On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 4:28 AM, Marc Joliet mar...@gmx.de wrote: Well, in general, a user of software is to me somebody who actually uses it, and doesn't merely have it installed, doing nothing. So since you don't use it, you... don't use it ;) . It actually isn't a dumb question. Up until now there shouldn't be issues with having both installed, and selecting between them at boot time. Apparently now we're starting to get diverging dependencies, so your system won't work quite right if you boot the wrong init at boot. Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd
Am Tue, 24 Jun 2014 06:09:12 -0400 schrieb Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org: On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 4:28 AM, Marc Joliet mar...@gmx.de wrote: Well, in general, a user of software is to me somebody who actually uses it, and doesn't merely have it installed, doing nothing. So since you don't use it, you... don't use it ;) . It actually isn't a dumb question. I didn't think so, and I gave the definition *I* use. Sorry if I implied otherwise! (My last sentence was in reference to Helmut writing [...] I still don't use systemd as my init system.[...], which I thought was a bit of a silly formulation, given his question :) .) Up until now there shouldn't be issues with having both installed, and selecting between them at boot time. Apparently now we're starting to get diverging dependencies, so your system won't work quite right if you boot the wrong init at boot. Which is where my second paragraph came in, pointing out that - and I'm repeating myself here - that, to my understanding, it's not so much that upower needs systemd, it's that it expects systemd to take over functionality that upower used to provide via pm-utils (hibernation, etc.). So it's a *runtime* problem: if you boot with systemd, you should use plain upower, if not, it depends on whether you need the functionality provided by pm-utils (which only the user of a system can know). Again, this is what I gathered from the previous looong upower discussion. You *can* use the newer upower without systemd, but you'll be missing functionality it used to provide via pm-utils (which is pretty much what Tom Wijsman said in one message). HTH -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd
On 24/06/2014 10:08, Helmut Jarausch wrote: On 06/24/2014 10:01:24 AM, Marc Joliet wrote: Am Mon, 23 Jun 2014 20:39:13 -0400 schrieb gottl...@nyu.edu: I think I had first misinterpreted the news msg, but want to be sure I do understand it correctly now. The message ends with All non-systemd users are recommended to choose between: # emerge --oneshot --noreplace 'sys-power/upower-pm-utils' or # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '=sys-power/upower-0.99.0' However, all systemd users are recommended to stay with sys-power/upower. I first read stay with sys-power/upower to mean systemd users should NOT do any of the two options for non-systemd users and let portage do its thing. However, portage want to replace upower with upower-pm-utils, which I am pretty sure is not intended for systemd users. Is the proper reading of the news message, that the systemd users should use the second option available for non-systemd users? Specifically am I to execute # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '=sys-power/upower-0.99.0' ? Um, personally, I think the message is extremely clear: non-systemd users should choose between the first two options, and systemd users should just stick with plain upower, regardless of version (although there is only one ATM, the older one is masked now). Hi, please tell me - what is a systemd user? A systemd user is someone who has systemd installed and *is using it* How can that be unclear? I have systemd AND openrc installed here and I still don't use systemd as my init system. Am I a systemd user? I ask because I cannot installed some packages, some require upower-0.99.0 others fail with it. Thanks, Helmut -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
