Re: [Goanet]Re: Manuel Antonio de Sousa
- Original Message - From: Teotonio R. de Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goa Research Net [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 9:43 AM Subject: [Goanet]Re: Manuel Antonio de Sousa Dear Jorge, Capela's books are published by Edicoes Afrontamento, in Porto. But I buy them in Lisbon without difficulty. He does give the date I indicated, and which is different from 1904 as given by Clement Vaz. Dear Dr. Teotonio, Thank you for the above information. I have now read Jose Capela's book Donas, Senhoras e Escravos which indeed says on page 155 that Manuel Antonio de Sousa (MAS), honorary colonel of the (Portuguese) overseas army and comendador of the Order of Aviz, was killed while attacking Missongue in DEcember 1891. So, while there is no doubt that he was born in Mapusa (Bardez, Goa) in 1835, Capela places his death in December 1891 while Clement Vaz tells us that he met bravely, like a true hero, his death on the battle ground in 1904 (in Profiles of Eminent Goans Past and Present [New Dlhi, 1997] - page 105). Now, there is yet another date of his death (January 20, 1892) and, apparently, not like a true hero. I have a two-volume book titled História de Moçambique by René Pélissier (Portuguese translation of the original French - Editorial Estampa, Lisboa, 1994) which gives an account of MAS's death on pages 78/80 of volume II. On pages 79/80 he says: «Quando ... a 18 de Janeiro de 1892 se pôs a caminho contra a aringa principal, de Inhachirondo/Missongue, ainda chovia. Dois dias depois, a 20 de Janeiro de 1892, estava defronte de Inhachirondo, que atacou a tiro de canhão, mas os Baruístas bateram-se rijamente; eram ajudados por um mercenário branco, um norte-americano chamado George Taylor, que começava a desempenhar no Barué um papel suspeito, usando, além disso,a mesma táctica que Manuel António de Sousa (casamentos nas famílias reinantes). ... Manuel António de Sousa ficou ferido e, ao ver isto, os seus chicundas desertaram do campo de batalha. ... O fim de Manuel António de Sousa foi tão miserável e tão incerto como extraordinária fora a sua existência. A versão espacial e temporalmente mais próxima pretende que, para fugir às azagaias, ele se tenha embrenhado no capim, abandonado por todos. Um garoto tê-lo-ia morto em vez de arriscar-se a levá-lo vivo para Inhachirondo/Missongue e vê-lo vingar-se do seu insignificante guardião com alguma habilidade de feitiçaria. Seja como for quanto à materialidade dos factos, no dia 20 de Janeiro de 1892 desapareceu, pois, este chamejante goês que fizera tremer a Zambézia durante mais de trinta anos, que conquistara um império para Portugal, que estivera associado a Paiva de Andrada e que, mais feliz que ele nesse plano, não assistira à subida da influência britânica no território da Companhia de Moçambique. Irremediavelmente classificado na infra-humanidade pelos Britânicos vitorianos, este Indian half-caste, que de resto era um verdugo feroz para os Africanos que tinham a pouca sorte de resistir-lhe, pertencia já, em 1892, a um mundo perimido: o de Bonga». In a footnote the author says: «A tradição do Barué pretende que ele foi morto pelo próprio Canga. Outra versão diz que ele foi ferido por dois dos seus capitães, Magaço e Bastião, e que morreu sob tortura». Jorge ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]Re: Manuel Antonio de Sousa
Goanet next meets in Goa: January 7, 4 pm (meeting point: Kala Academy canteen). Goanet founder Herman Carneiro will be there. See you there! -- Dear Dr. Teotonio, In your first post you gave 1991 as the year of Manuel Antonio de Sousa's death. Is this really the year which is Jose Capela's book? Or ... was it perhaps 1891(as against 1904 registered by Clement Vaz)? Is Capela's book Donas, Senhores e Escravos available for sale in Lisbon? Jorge - Original Message - From: Teotonio R. de Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Goa Research Net [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 9:49 AM Subject: [Goanet]Re: Manuel Antonio de Sousa Dear Jorge, Yes, I am aware of the book mentioned, but Clement Vaz does not cite his sources, nor is it clear who wrote each and every piece in that book. He also writes about me in the same volume that I joined the Society of Jesus at Jnana Deepa Vidyapeeth (Pune)! My source of information about the year of death of MAS is drawn from José Capela's *Donas, Senhores e Escravos*. I regard Capela as one of the best informed historians of Mozambique in Portugal today. From: Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goanet [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Goanet]RE: Manuel Antonio de Sousa Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:02:09 +0100 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello TRS, I wonder whether you have read the profile of Manoel Antonio de Sousa in the book Profiles of Eminent Goans Past and Present by J. Clement Vaz Ph.D (Concept Publishing Company, New Delhi - 1997). He is profiled in pages 103-105. The Bungos are not referred to therein. And BTW his death occurred in 1904. ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]RE: Manuel Antonio de Sousa
Goanet meets in Goa: December 27, 12 noon and January 7, 4 pm (meeting point: Kala Academy canteen). See you there! -- Hello TRS, I wonder whether you have read the profile of Manoel Antonio de Sousa in the book Profiles of Eminent Goans Past and Present by J. Clement Vaz Ph.D (Concept Publishing Company, New Delhi - 1997). He is profiled in pages 103-105. The Bungos are not referred to therein. And BTW his death occurred in 1904. The profile ends with ...after many struggles, all characterised by great courage and sterling loyalty, Manoel Antonio met bravely, like a true hero, his death on the battle ground in 1904. Unfortunately there is no photograph of his to illustrate the profile. - As regards the statue in Mapusa, I too would like to know when it was erected, how the unveiling ceremony was conducted and when and by whom it was destroyed. I would also like to see a picture of that statue and learn what (if anything) was written on its pedestal. A Holy and Joyful Christmas Season and a Happy Entry into 2004, to you, to everybody else on this list and to the families of one and all. Jorge - Original Message - From: TRS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 11:07 AM Subject: [Goanet]RE: Manuel Antonio de Sousa Goanet meets in Goa: December 27, 12 noon and January 7, 4 pm (meeting point: Kala Academy canteen). See you there! -- Dear A. Veronica, Thank you for your good wishes for the season. Would you remember the exact text of the lesson about MAS (b.1835)in the text book you mentioned, and what it said about the Portuguese respect for the Goans? Did it mention what were the activities of MAS in Africa as captain of Manica and Quiteve, as *feudal lord* of Barue and Gorongosa and son-in-law of the African princes Xipapata and Gambate Machouta? Apparently (?)he lived with many other women *n'hanhas*, who guarded his vast landed properties and *aringas*. MAS always maintained that his lands were not his, but belonged to the Crown of Portugal. However, there were complaints that he never paid any dues to the Crown as the Bungos did! For his collaboration with Portuguese authorities to put down the revolt of Bungos in 1887, he was guest of the Portuguese royal family and even delivered a speech at the Sociedade de Geografia in Lisbon during a session dedicated to him! Teotonio R. de Souza From: A. Veronica Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Goanet]RE: Manuel Antonio de Sousa Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:08:21 + Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Statue of a Goan Manuel Antonio De Sousa at Mapusa. Appriximately this statue was erected 2 years before 19.12.1961 by the Portuguese Government of Goa to project how Portuguese Government respect Goans. ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
RE: [Goanet]Re: Manuel Antonio de Sousa
Goanet meets in Goa: December 27, 12 noon and January 7, 4 pm (meeting point: Kala Academy canteen). See you there! -- Dear Dr. Teotonio, I am unable to provide you any further information than what I have already said. Wishing you Merry X'Mas. Regards A. Veronica Fernandes, Kuwait. From: TRS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet]Re: Manuel Antonio de Sousa Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:48:09 - Goanet meets in Goa: December 27, 12 noon and January 7, 4 pm (meeting point: Kala Academy canteen). See you there! -- A. Veronica, Thank you very much for your informative reply. Was there any picture of the man in the text-book lesson you mention? For which class was that book? I respect your personal opinion about the liberation issue and your courage to put it across as you do. At least that much of liberty we should enjoy after liberation. As regards Francisco Luís Gomes, I would not read any political freedom for Goa in his writings and discourses. He was a man of 19th century liberalism and demanded respect for all persons of whichever country or colour. His first speech in the Portuguese parliament was precisely on this issue when Affonseca, the representative from Madeira island, suggested that the Portuguese should imitate the English and refuse representation to the colonies in the home parliament. Sukhest natalam and Novem Voros tuka ani tujeam ghorcheank, Teotonio - From: A. Veronica Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Goanet]RE: Manuel Antonio de Sousa Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:08:21 + Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Statue of a Goan Manuel Antonio De Sousa at Mapusa. Appriximately this statue was erected 2 years before 19.12.1961 by the Portuguese Government of Goa to project how Portuguese Government respect Goans. Before erecting this statue there was a big Vhoddache Zadd there. ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
RE: [Goanet]RE: Manuel Antonio de Sousa
Goanet meets in Goa: December 27, 12 noon and January 7, 4 pm (meeting point: Kala Academy canteen). See you there! -- Statue of a Goan Manuel Antonio De Sousa at Mapusa. Appriximately this statue was erected 2 years before 19.12.1961 by the Portuguese Government of Goa to project how Portuguese Government respect Goans. Before erecting this statue there was a big Vhoddache Zadd there. Portuguese Government of Goa wanted to clear that area of this big tree, contracts were awarded to the local Hindus, some contractors accepted while others refused because it was considered by them as holy place as there were lot of poisonous Snakes there. Those contractors who accepted the contract of cutting that tree into pieces suffered inuries and deaths to their employees. Then everyone got afraid and gave up. Finally, Portuguese Government of Goa entrusted that task of cutting that tree to Portuguese military. While doing this hazardous job some of the military personnel, negroes and whites died but never gave up. It is said before military power even the power of devil disappears. I as a small boy have seen this mission of Portuguese military personnel cutting that tree and they had advanced weapons of cutting the tree, the cutting blades were of different nature than what our traditional labourers used. After fulfilling this mission the road was broadened and at the centre that statue of Goan was erected. This statue was destroyed in the bombing mission about 4 days before 19.12.1961. Portuguese Government declared that it was bombed by the Indian Satyagris or Bharati people who wanted to invade Goa. By declaring thus the Portuguese Government wanted to defame Bharati Government of Nehru, that is, to tell Goans how anti-Goan Bharati Government is. But it was also given an impression that the said statue was purposely bombed by the Portuguese military intelligence service from Mapusa Police Station to create a scene that it was Bharati Government that has done that ugly job of destroying the monument of a Goan. Hence, Bharati Government is anti Goan. That was the motive of Portuguese Government of Goa on this matter as it was rumoured then. We also had a very good lesson on this man in Historia de Portugal during my last scholastic year in Portuguese in 1961. After Goa went into the clutches of Bharat, Goans were simply made to adore Gandhiji and other Indian leaders and Goans like real slaves accepted everything Delhi said and everything Congress of Nehru wanted to do. Now in that place in Mapusa Gandiji's monument is lying, elsewhere in Margao a Maidan was named after Loya, elsewhere one soccer ground was named after Dr. Rajendra Prasad and somewhere else something else as if there were no nationalistic minded and patriotic Goans who fought for the cause of Goa and India. I still feel Gandhiji's statue should be removed from there and in its place Goan's statue should be erected. Gandhiji was not the leader of Goa, nor Dr. Rajendra Prasad. They are foreign to us, to our culture, tradition and history. This does not mean that I am anti-Gandhiji but I like to speak my mind freely for which I am sure even Gandhiji would agree. By erecting Gandhiji's monuments everywhere we are making mockery of Gandhiji's principles who shunned publicity and propaganda of his works. In one way we are erecting Gandhiji's monuments and on the other side we are trampling his principles and doctrine under our feet is like disgracing the fair name of Gandhiji. Currently Gandhiji is become irrelevant in our day to day life. Ghandiji is become so irrelevant now that in few years time the next generation will do exactly what birds are doing on the head of Gandiji's statue. A. Veronica Fernandes, Kuwait. From: Teotonio R. de Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet]RE: Manuel Antonio de Sousa Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:26:16 + (Hora padrão de Greenwich) Goanet meets in Goa: December 27, 12 noon and January 7, 4 pm (meeting point: Kala Academy canteen). See you there! -- Dear Bernado Colaco, My interest is only in a photo-image of MAS while still on pedestal. I am not interested in mouthfoolish opinions. I shall try to contact Eng. F. Monteiro. Thank you for the suggestion. Is he contactable by e-mail? Teotonio R. de Souza - From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bernado=20Colaco?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Goanet]Manuel Antonio de Sousa To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Some months ago this Mapusa-born Goan who became a celebrity in Colonial Mozambique at the end of the 19th century and was killed in a skirmish in 1991 after being caught by the British South African Police was mentioned on goanet. The Portuguese had tried to project him as a role-model for the Goans on the eve of Goa's liberation by
