Re: automake test driver for Guile scheme patch review
Hi, Timothy Sample writes: > Hello, > > [Dropping Karl since we are no longer discussing Automake maintenance.] > > Maxime Devos writes: > >> [What about] discoverability, ease of updating the test driver, >> clarity, unbundling and the goals of Freja Nordsiek? > > Maybe Guile should adopt the script as ‘guild test-am’ or somesuch. > Mathieu assigned copyright to the FSF for the Automake patch and I > believe Maxim would be willing to do the same for the more recent > patches. I think having such a guild command would be nice for reuse. I'm happy to assign my copyright to the FSF, although that's not strictly needed anymore as pointed to Maxime. > If there’s interest and someone willing to commit the change, I > volunteer to integrate the script. I can add a node in the manual after > “4.8 Distributing Guile Code” called “Testing Guile Code” that links to > Maxim’s forthcoming SRFI 64 documentation and explains how to use the > script with Automake. > > Thoughts? Sounds good to me! Thanks for the initiative. -- Thanks, Maxim
Re: automake test driver for Guile scheme patch review
I will check out the actively-maintained one from Guix, and likely use it. Almost certainly better than the mess I wrote. Best regards, Freja On 21/11/2023 22:45, Karl Berry wrote: Thanks for the replies. MD> but I don't think it should be in Automake, because then the test driver is harder to update Fine by me :). MD> I don't have any advise on how to get the automake maintainers Sorry, I should have made it clear that I am, effectively, the automake maintainer nowadays. Technically just a contributor, but no one else is applying patches. (Jim Meyering is still making the releases, hopefully with another one out before the end of the year.) TS> Well, it's already a part of Automake as contrib/test-driver.scm: Sounds like I should remove it from there, since that version is stale, as you both noted. It doesn't make sense to me to have a copy of a file that is updated elsewhere. Better for it to be part of wherever it is actually useful instead of putting me and laggard automake development in the middle. Since it's been years since the initial patch+idea, and no one has ever written about it, evidently the goal has been reached outside of Automake. TS> I think that doing nothing other than closing that patch would be a reasonable course of action. :) It's nice to hear the same proposal twice :). Thus it shall be. Freja, if you go forward with your project, evidently the conclusion is that it's better to use the actively-maintained version in Guix. --happy hacking, karl.
Re: automake test driver for Guile scheme patch review
Op 22-11-2023 om 00:02 schreef Timothy Sample: Hello, [Dropping Karl since we are no longer discussing Automake maintenance.] Maxime Devos writes: [What about] discoverability, ease of updating the test driver, clarity, unbundling and the goals of Freja Nordsiek? Maybe Guile should adopt the script as ‘guild test-am’ or somesuch. While written for Automake, it's useful and usable outside it, so I would change 'am' to something else. Maybe: ‘guild run-test-suite’. Mathieu assigned copyright to the FSF for the Automake patch and I believe Maxim would be willing to do the same for the more recent patches. Note: while accepted, that's not a requirement anymore. If there’s interest and someone willing to commit the change, I volunteer to integrate the script. I can add a node in the manual after “4.8 Distributing Guile Code” called “Testing Guile Code” that links to Maxim’s forthcoming SRFI 64 documentation and explains how to use the script with Automake. Thoughts? I don't know if there is someone willing to commit the change (as in, I don't know, not I know there isn't someone willing), but I would say there is definitely interest. (Doesn't matter for me whether it's in Guile or a thing packaged separately ... just not this script that gets copied around with somewhat unclear providence.) Best regards, Maxime Devos. OpenPGP_0x49E3EE22191725EE.asc Description: OpenPGP public key OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: automake test driver for Guile scheme patch review
Hello, [Dropping Karl since we are no longer discussing Automake maintenance.] Maxime Devos writes: > [What about] discoverability, ease of updating the test driver, > clarity, unbundling and the goals of Freja Nordsiek? Maybe Guile should adopt the script as ‘guild test-am’ or somesuch. Mathieu assigned copyright to the FSF for the Automake patch and I believe Maxim would be willing to do the same for the more recent patches. If there’s interest and someone willing to commit the change, I volunteer to integrate the script. I can add a node in the manual after “4.8 Distributing Guile Code” called “Testing Guile Code” that links to Maxim’s forthcoming SRFI 64 documentation and explains how to use the script with Automake. Thoughts? -- Tim
Re: automake test driver for Guile scheme patch review
Op 21-11-2023 om 18:33 schreef Maxime Devos: I think that doing nothing other than closing that patch would be a reasonable course of action. :) And how is "doing nothing" supposed to help with discoverability, ease of updating the test driver, clarity, unbundling and the goals of Freja Nordsiek? By the extra context from Karl Berry (context: Karl Berry is effectively an automake maintainer): I now gather this is about what would be reasonable to do for the Automake maintainer, not about what would be reasonable for someone doing Guile things -- there are still other things beside closing the patch that need to happen, but those aren't things to do as part of Automake. Best regards, Maxime Devos OpenPGP_0x49E3EE22191725EE.asc Description: OpenPGP public key OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: automake test driver for Guile scheme patch review
Thanks for the replies. MD> but I don't think it should be in Automake, because then the test driver is harder to update Fine by me :). MD> I don't have any advise on how to get the automake maintainers Sorry, I should have made it clear that I am, effectively, the automake maintainer nowadays. Technically just a contributor, but no one else is applying patches. (Jim Meyering is still making the releases, hopefully with another one out before the end of the year.) TS> Well, it's already a part of Automake as contrib/test-driver.scm: Sounds like I should remove it from there, since that version is stale, as you both noted. It doesn't make sense to me to have a copy of a file that is updated elsewhere. Better for it to be part of wherever it is actually useful instead of putting me and laggard automake development in the middle. Since it's been years since the initial patch+idea, and no one has ever written about it, evidently the goal has been reached outside of Automake. TS> I think that doing nothing other than closing that patch would be a reasonable course of action. :) It's nice to hear the same proposal twice :). Thus it shall be. Freja, if you go forward with your project, evidently the conclusion is that it's better to use the actively-maintained version in Guix. --happy hacking, karl.
Re: automake test driver for Guile scheme patch review
Op 20-11-2023 om 17:16 schreef Timothy Sample: Hi, Maxime Devos writes: Op 19-11-2023 om 18:17 schreef Karl Berry: Hello Guile folk - back in May 2016, Mathieu Lirzin submitted a patch to add a test driver for Guile Scheme to Automake. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/automake-patches/2016-05/msg0.html It was never committed. It's been seven+ years, so before doing so, I wanted to check if it was still useful, and valid. Useful, but I don't think it should be in Automake, because then the test driver is harder to update and it would add yet another source of bundling. Well, it’s already a part of Automake as ‘contrib/test-driver.scm’: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/automake.git/tree/contrib/test-driver.scm Last time I tried, "autoreconf -i" doesn't pick it up, so apparently it's not part of Automake in any way that matters, it's only part of the Automake repository. (Also, it's undocumented.) Besides, if it were added to Automake at one point, it can be removed from Automake (and added somwhere else) at another. Also, the test driver has been updated since then. That’s true. Maxim Cournoyer added some useful features in 2021. However, these features do not affect Automake. They only make the script more useful when running outside of Automake. It would be nice to have them in the Automake version, but I guess Maxim would have to sign a copyright assignment for that. (I’m not sure of Automake’s policy there, so correct me if I’m wrong.) Looking at the commit messages, they are useful within Automake as well do in fact, affect Automake. For example, one of these changes is a new "--show-duration" option, which can be used within Automake by: $ make check SCM_LOG_DRIVER_FLAGS="--brief=no --show-duration=yes" (copied from doc/guix.texi). I think that doing nothing other than closing that patch would be a reasonable course of action. :) And how is "doing nothing" supposed to help with discoverability, ease of updating the test driver, clarity, unbundling and the goals of Freja Nordsiek? Best regards, Maxime Devos OpenPGP_0x49E3EE22191725EE.asc Description: OpenPGP public key OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: automake test driver for Guile scheme patch review
Hi, Maxime Devos writes: > Op 19-11-2023 om 18:17 schreef Karl Berry: > >> Hello Guile folk - back in May 2016, Mathieu Lirzin submitted a patch >> to add a test driver for Guile Scheme to Automake. >> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/automake-patches/2016-05/msg0.html >> >> It was never committed. It's been seven+ years, so before doing so, I >> wanted to check if it was still useful, and valid. > > Useful, but I don't think it should be in Automake, because then the > test driver is harder to update and it would add yet another source of > bundling. Well, it’s already a part of Automake as ‘contrib/test-driver.scm’: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/automake.git/tree/contrib/test-driver.scm > Also, the test driver has been updated since then. That’s true. Maxim Cournoyer added some useful features in 2021. However, these features do not affect Automake. They only make the script more useful when running outside of Automake. It would be nice to have them in the Automake version, but I guess Maxim would have to sign a copyright assignment for that. (I’m not sure of Automake’s policy there, so correct me if I’m wrong.) I think that doing nothing other than closing that patch would be a reasonable course of action. :) -- Tim
Re: automake test driver for Guile scheme patch review
Op 19-11-2023 om 18:17 schreef Karl Berry: Hello Guile folk - back in May 2016, Mathieu Lirzin submitted a patch to add a test driver for Guile Scheme to Automake. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/automake-patches/2016-05/msg0.html It was never committed. It's been seven+ years, so before doing so, I wanted to check if it was still useful, and valid. I know next to nothing about Guile or Guix myself. Please advise? If this is the wrong list, please forward? --thanks, karl. (I'm not on this list, so please cc me with any replies.) Useful, but I don't think it should be in Automake, because then the test driver is harder to update and it would add yet another source of bundling. Instead, I think the test driver should be a separate package/program (with support in Automake for invoking the driver) or part of Guile (maybe a "guild test" subcommand or something like that). I don't have any advise on how to get the automake maintainers to actually respond to the patch beyond ‘maybe try again?’. Also, the test driver has been updated since then. As far as I can tell, Guix is currently the upstream of the test driver (see: build-aux/test-driver.scm) -- while part of Guix, it should be straightforward enough to only install the test driver itself in distributions, without compiling or installing the rest of Guix. (See, e.g. https://issues.guix.gnu.org/58365#9, where test-driver.scm (from Guix) is packaged as a Guix package, albeit not the best example because both are Guix.) If you retry merging it into Automake, I recommend picking up the new version from Guix. Best regards, Maxime Devos OpenPGP_0x49E3EE22191725EE.asc Description: OpenPGP public key OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: automake test driver for Guile scheme patch review
Dear Karl Berry and Guilers, I've been considering using Guile for a project as the next step after my initial proof of concept in shell script and very much would be using Automake's parallel-test harness, like this is for. The tests I am writing now would not change (run program, check results), but having a test driver in Automake itself for Guile would make it easier to test the harder parts that my existing tests would not be able to do (interact with individual pieces of code to see if they do the right thing at a more granular level). Otherwise, I would likely fall back to scheme library I wrote several years ago in 2017 to make an SRFI-64 inspired unit test framework that output in the TAP format (had Guile, R6RS, and R7RS compliant scheme and install support for Guile, Chicken, and Vicare) and could then be used in with Automake's TAP based test harness (https://github.com/frejanordsiek/unit-test-tap). So, this patch, if revived, would be very nice for me, assuming I actually do make the Guile version of my project after finishing the proof of concept. I have to be honest here, it has been a long time since I worked with Guile (2017) and I am not sure how well it would fly with others interested in the project. So, I am only a maybe future user if this gets done. Maybe there are others interested in it as well. Best regards, Freja Nordsiek On 19/11/2023 18:17, Karl Berry wrote: Hello Guile folk - back in May 2016, Mathieu Lirzin submitted a patch to add a test driver for Guile Scheme to Automake. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/automake-patches/2016-05/msg0.html It was never committed. It's been seven+ years, so before doing so, I wanted to check if it was still useful, and valid. I know next to nothing about Guile or Guix myself. Please advise? If this is the wrong list, please forward? --thanks, karl. (I'm not on this list, so please cc me with any replies.)
automake test driver for Guile scheme patch review
Hello Guile folk - back in May 2016, Mathieu Lirzin submitted a patch to add a test driver for Guile Scheme to Automake. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/automake-patches/2016-05/msg0.html It was never committed. It's been seven+ years, so before doing so, I wanted to check if it was still useful, and valid. I know next to nothing about Guile or Guix myself. Please advise? If this is the wrong list, please forward? --thanks, karl. (I'm not on this list, so please cc me with any replies.)