2009/6/12 Huan KDE Zealot Truong huantnh at gmail.com:
OK good.
Now your definition has a problem: Except for liberal students who
only use computer for web browsing-email-chat, people use computers to
do their work.
Some design architectural buildings, some draw, some sings, some do
C? V?ng wrote:
But, I don't think it has anything related to the topic here, read Is Linux
equally easy compared to Windows, I add for the average Joe in VN.
I don't want to talk about anything other than that topic, because I know
it will lead to no where for sure.
Perhaps one could
C? V?ng wrote:
Second, the answer for that question is still no, not for everyone, so
the question changed to Is linux easy to use for an average Joe who
only use computer for casual web browsing, music, email, IM and a
little bit office? on sane hardware?
which, I believe the answer is yes
2009/6/12 Lars Adermalm lars.hema at gmail.com:
C? V?ng wrote:
Second, the answer for that question is still no, not for everyone, so
the question changed to Is linux easy to use for an average Joe who
only use computer for casual web browsing, music, email, IM and a
little bit office? on
Lars Adermalm a ?crit :
Yes, as long as Joe can plug in and use his printer and scanner at
home and work, connect to his mobile over blue tooth, call back home
using Skype when travelling around and open Google Earth to check
where he is and where he's going, import pictures from his camera,
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 4:40 AM, Stevesteve at hivemind.net wrote:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184568/malware-steals-atm-accounts-pin-codes
It doesn't have anything to do with the topic.
In fact, we all know that it's impossible not to have bugs in
software. I am sure if linux
2009/6/12 Huan KDE Zealot Truong huantnh at gmail.com:
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 4:40 AM, Stevesteve at hivemind.net wrote:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184568/malware-steals-atm-accounts-pin-codes
It doesn't have anything to do with the topic.
But it might be a nice change from
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Stevesteve at hivemind.net wrote:
It doesn't have anything to do with the topic.
But it might be a nice change from what is increasingly sounding like
the literal meaning of zealot.
You seem to be anti anything people post on this list. More and more
you are
I like Linux doesn't mean that I hate MS. I really find the whole
notion of Linux as being against Microsoft to be silly and
wrong-headed.
1, You can't learn new things if you don't see what's wrong with the
product you're using.
2, You can't grow up by hate and fear.
3, If you don't see why
As the focus of this topic is all about *the usability of Linux vs Windows
to the mass*, I would like to high light the very point which Steve (and I)
would like Huan others to answer (if you have)
2009/6/12 Steve steve at hivemind.net
2009/6/12 Huan KDE Zealot Truong huantnh at gmail.com:
2009/6/12 Huan KDE Zealot Truong huantnh at gmail.com:
I'm just saying Windows is easier to use. It's friendlier for people.
I have no issue for you believing one is easier to use than another. I
have a different view and that is that one (Linux) to someone who has
never used Windows will not
Huan \\KDE Zealot\\ Truong huantnh at gmail.com a ?crit?:
So I'd say if you want to prove that Linux is more usable by proving
windows is full of viruses, costs money, or bluescreens, or doesn't
have good uptime or vulnerable to buffer overflow -- it's not gonna
work. I'd call it BS. I have
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Le Quoc Thailqthai at gmail.com wrote:
As the focus of this topic is all about the usability of Linux vs Windows
to the mass, I would like to high light the very point which Steve (and I)
would like Huan others to answer (if you have)
For my part, Windows is
Sorry for top posting, but your statement was so long and I really did
not want to cut it shorter.
Now, your talking! At first I misjudged you as only loving to pick an
argument with anybody about anything.
Becoming too religious or fundamentalist about anything is becoming
no different than
Huan \\KDE Zealot\\ Truong huantnh at gmail.com a ?crit?:
Now what you're trying to do is trying to convince people to use the
GIMP instead of Photoshop... I mean, seriously, have you ever used any
advanced feature of Photoshop? And you try to convince Joe that the
GIMP is just as good? It
2009/6/12 Huan KDE Zealot Truong huantnh at gmail.com
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Le Quoc Thailqthai at gmail.com wrote:
As the focus of this topic is all about the usability of Linux vs
Windows
to the mass, I would like to high light the very point which Steve (and
I)
would like
Sigh, I don't even want to post this, but I have to (please see the picture)
There are many kinds of average Joe out there, with many many
different needs, I'm sure this discusstion will go no where, so I
propose 2 choices:
- Stop it here
- Narrow the subject down, define what is our 'average Joe
2009/6/12 Huan KDE Zealot Truong huantnh at gmail.com:
If you see uptimes in uptime competition websites, NT servers can stay
up as long as Linux servers. I saw one year ago on one website a NT
server topped the chart.
Yes in 1995 I saw this one if you want to make statements like
this,
Huan \\KDE Zealot\\ Truong huantnh at gmail.com a ?crit?:
I like Linux doesn't mean that I hate MS. I really find the whole
notion of Linux as being against Microsoft to be silly and
wrong-headed.
I think that until now you are the only one to have used the word
against in this discussion.
Huan KDE Zealot Truong a ?crit :
The point is he needs to get stuff done. Say he needs Photoshop to get his
stuff done.
I think you meant: he needs an image processing tool...
Photoshop being only one among those available.
Now Photoshop doesn't have Linux support. It's not Linux fault that
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 10:47 AM, C? V?ngclarious at gmail.com wrote:
For the 2nd choice, my image of an average Joe in VN would be someone
who only use computer for:
- Web browsing
- Email, chat
- Film, music
- Not-so-serious office work
So is Linux ready for the above Joe?
OK good.
Now
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Jean Christophe
Andr?jean-christophe.andre at auf.org wrote:
Huan KDE Zealot Truong a ?crit :
The point is he needs to get stuff done. Say he needs Photoshop to get his
stuff done.
I think you meant: he needs an image processing tool...
Photoshop being only
2009/6/11 Huan KDE Zealot Truong hnt7438 at truman.edu:
On 6/9/09, C? V?ng clarious at gmail.com wrote:
Yeah, Linux *maybe* easy, depend on your purpose of using a computer.
Same for windows, I can say that it is easier to customize Linux than
windows.
Actually you forget the reason why most
Huan KDE Zealot Truong a ?crit :
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Vu Do Quynhvu.do.quynh at auf.org wrote:
You can say When I know how to ride my motorbike , then it looks easy
to me (and maybe difficult for people who don't)... The fact is, with
most people, riding a motorbike is harder than
I have a small suggestion, let keep it simple and clean, please don't
write anything that are longer than 500 words, it is very hard to read
and remember.
(The mail above is 1689 words, quotes not included)
--
My job: Writing buggy softwares to make the world a worse place for
humanity (
My dear friend,
2009/6/9 Huan KDE Zealot Truong huantnh at gmail.com
Changed topic.
The policy I used until now was not to favor Windows against GNU/Linux,
i.e. it should be equally easy to install in Windows as in GNU/Linux.
This is to show people that using GNU/Linux (Ubuntu here) is
Le Quoc Thai a ?crit :
Back to the case of the easiness of an OS, what criteria shall we
use now?
First of all we should compare the appropriation of an OS by people,
having the same basis (same education, knowledge) and preferably knowing
nothing about _any_ OS.
You can't compare Linux
Jean Christophe Andr? a ?crit :
I had proof of that with my own familly: my 2 daugthers (7? 4? old)
have no difficulty at all in using Linux (for more than 3 years now),
the same with my mother (near 60y old) and sister (about 30y old) who
have been using Linux for years without complaining
2009/6/11 Jean Christophe Andr? jean-christophe.andre at auf.org
I had proof of that with my own familly: my 2 daugthers (7? 4? old)
have no difficulty at all in using Linux (for more than 3 years now),
the same with my mother (near 60y old) and sister (about 30y old) who
have been using
Thai:
Things can only be compared if they are comparable.
Back to the case of the easiness of an OS, what criteria shall we use now?
There you go, from Mr Quynh:
Then double click to install which is pretty easy then.
It is no more difficult to go to Add/Remove, select the applications of
Huan KDE Zealot Truong a ?crit :
to do it with Linux - ask someone who never used computer to install
something with linux and windows. Even Mr Quynh admitted he hed to
show his son how to accomplish stuff with Ubuntu. Then it is not easy.
Well, to be fair, I must add that I also had to show
By the way your examples of showing linux is easy are not valid.
Your sons/your wife/your girlfriend will receive direct and prompt
help from you, when they are stuck with doing stuff. If they can't do
stuff with linux, they can just ask you. Then doing anything is easy.
On the other hand, if a
I don't know if your argument makes any sense here but from my point
of view, the inability to distinguish between easy to use and easy
to learn make us as foolish.
Huan KDE Zealot Truong a ?crit :
By the way your examples of showing linux is easy are not valid.
I think they are :-)
Your sons/your wife/your girlfriend will receive direct and prompt
help from you, when they are stuck with doing stuff. If they can't do
stuff with linux, they can just
If something is easy to use, it will be easy to learn (to use,) or
doesn't require learning at all.
Reminds me of a quotation by someone, something like If the user
doesn't know how to operate your product, it's not the user who is
dumb, it's you.
So it makes sense now?
On 6/11/09, Ngo Trung
Huan KDE Zealot Truong a ?crit :
If something is easy to use, it will be easy to learn (to use,) or
doesn't require learning at all.
Reminds me of a quotation by someone, something like If the user
doesn't know how to operate your product, it's not the user who is
dumb, it's you.
So it
Yes, it is right, if Windows is more vulnerable to viruses, it's
Microsoft's fault. And I never said that I love Windows, or Windows
is better than Linux, I just said it's easy, it's more user-friendly,
it is more appealing, it is more approachable.
And if Linux appears to be difficult for
Still having fun? Let me join in!
2009/6/11 Huan KDE Zealot Truong hnt7438 at truman.edu:
If something is easy to use, it will be easy to learn (to use,) or
doesn't require learning at all.
Reminds me of a quotation by someone, something like If the user
doesn't know how to operate your
2009/6/11 Huan KDE Zealot Truong hnt7438 at truman.edu:
BTW, it's fun to see how can't even linux supporters fail to see what
makes Windows so popular.
So... A little bit of topic, what do you think Linux can do to be more
'user friendly' ?
Hmm, double click to install a programs? JustWork(r)
- The 2nd is a girl from my class, she need to install a CAD/CAE pro-
gram on her computer, but she can't do it. So I have to go and help her
(crack) it. Plus a monthly trip to disinfect the viruses. One day she could
not stand the virus anymore and decided to reinstall windows. Okay, so
2009/6/11 Huan KDE Zealot Truong hnt7438 at truman.edu:
- The 2nd is a girl from my class, she need to install a CAD/CAE pro-
?gram on her computer, but she can't do it. So I have to go and help her
?(crack) it. Plus a monthly trip to disinfect the viruses. One day she could
?not stand the
Huan KDE Zealot Truong a ?crit :
And if Linux appears to be difficult for people, that is not their
fault not being trained. It's the fault of the concept. Actually it's
not the fault of the concept, it is the trade off, the weak point of
the concept behind it. And it's what we're trying to
Huan KDE Zealot Truong a ?crit :
- The 2nd is a girl from my class, she need to install a CAD/CAE pro-
gram on her computer, but she can't do it. So I have to go and help her
(crack) it. Plus a monthly trip to disinfect the viruses. One day she could
not stand the virus anymore and decided
Huan KDE Zealot Truong a ?crit :
Your sons/your wife/your girlfriend will receive direct and prompt help from
you, when they are stuck with doing stuff. If they can't do stuff with linux,
they can just ask you. Then doing anything is easy.
Well... You don't know me, you don't know them.
When
C? V?ng a ?crit :
So... A little bit of topic, what do you think Linux can do to be more 'user
friendly' ?
Hmm, double click to install a programs? JustWork(r) with sane hardware? Let
user easily install driver for new hardware? Plug'n'Play?
Oh wait, Linux can do all of that.
Getting
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 AM, C? V?ngclarious at gmail.com wrote:
2009/6/11 Huan KDE Zealot Truong hnt7438 at truman.edu:
And she's still having to live with Windows and her viruses? ;-) Why
don't you ask her to use Inkspace or the GIMP or whatever freeware out
there to design her stuff? Or
Dear my readers, due to an excessive number of stones throwing at me,
let me answer one by one, maybe not this morning, but if forget to
address your guys' questions after a while, please remind me.
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 5:18 AM, Jean Christophe
Andr?jean-christophe.andre at auf.org wrote:
C?
2009/6/11 Huan KDE Zealot Truong huantnh at gmail.com:
First, I don't care about what is the program name. Show me someone
who is working in the architectural/electrical/machinery design field
that uses something that is GNU/whatever to do their work. You can use
Bing or Google to search for
Huan KDE Zealot Truong a ?crit :
Yes it would be ideal to have Linux equally easy compared to
Windows. But you have o either face the reality, or shoot at your
foot: Linux is *not* easy, and it cannot be easy and secure at the
same time. You can't say you downloaded a program, double click on
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Vu Do Quynhvu.do.quynh at auf.org wrote:
Easy is a relative notion. When you know how to do it, then it looks
easy to you (and maybe difficult for others).
You can say When I know how to ride my motorbike , then it looks easy
to me (and maybe difficult for
On 6/9/09, C? V?ng clarious at gmail.com wrote:
Yeah, Linux *maybe* easy, depend on your purpose of using a computer.
Same for windows, I can say that it is easier to customize Linux than
windows.
Actually you forget the reason why most people are using computers:
They wanted to have their
Changed topic.
The policy I used until now was not to favor Windows against GNU/Linux,
i.e. it should be equally easy to install in Windows as in GNU/Linux.
This is to show people that using GNU/Linux (Ubuntu here) is not as hard
as using Windows and ... is far more secure.
Yes it would be
2009/6/9 Huan KDE Zealot Truong huantnh at gmail.com:
Changed topic.
Yeah, Linux *maybe* easy, depend on your purpose of using a computer.
Same for windows, I can say that it is easier to customize Linux than
windows.
But yeah, you are right, I have never tried to convert my friends who
are
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