I don't dismiss Haskell in business. I only maintain it's a niche
market.
There are some domains where the infrastructure in more established
languages is minimal, and in such cases, I think Haskell can be more
efficient than those languages.
I should note, too, the the agile
On 2009-10-02 09:04 -0600 (Fri), John A. De Goes wrote:
I'm not saying Haskell is unstable. I'm saying that the attitude
expressed in the following quote is at odds with the needs of business:
And as far as something like dealing with a changing language and
libraries, the mainstream
Hi Alberto,
you are working on *second order scalibility*?? Great. May I regard you
a one of the first of a breed of Haskell business evangelists?? ;-))
Somebody stated here - sorry, the name's missing - the relevance of
Hackage being diminuished by the great amount of *scientific*
Hi Curt,
in case you regard as 'mainstream' big industry projects, this is not
the thing at least I am speaking about. I am speaking about small and
especially medium sized projects.
Frankly, I think that:
o there are people among us which at some times have influence on
decisions about
Hi Thomas,
two very substantial contributions... :-)
(a) Yes, let's do it with Happstack.
(b) I just applied for the group.
Nick
Thomas Hartman wrote:
Hey, first of all, in terms of a platform for promoting haskell
commercially, happstutorial.com actually implements a job board.
Yeah,
Hi John,
IMHO, with medium sized projects which are not application software to
be installed on a greater number of unknown systems, the problem
described by you is less aggravating:
Hackage offers a fairly good track of version history and I for myself
have adapted versions a good deal of
Hey, first of all, in terms of a platform for promoting haskell
commercially, happstutorial.com actually implements a job board.
Yeah, it's primitive and not feature complete, but on hackage, open
source, and ready for anyone who would like to work on it. (Currently
maintained by creighton hogg.)
correction, happstutorial is now tutorial.happstack.com.
2009/10/2 Thomas Hartman tphya...@gmail.com:
Hey, first of all, in terms of a platform for promoting haskell
commercially, happstutorial.com actually implements a job board.
Yeah, it's primitive and not feature complete, but on hackage,
On Oct 1, 2009, at 12:13 AM, Curt Sampson wrote:
And as far as something like dealing with a changing language and
libraries, the mainstream already has well-established and popular
techniques for doing just: agile development.
A project manager's worst nightmare:
Sorry boss, but we're just
2009/10/2 John A. De Goes j...@n-brain.net:
On Oct 1, 2009, at 12:13 AM, Curt Sampson wrote:
And as far as something like dealing with a changing language and
libraries, the mainstream already has well-established and popular
techniques for doing just: agile development.
A project manager's
On Oct 1, 2009, at 9:56 AM, Curt Sampson wrote:
The main whinging seems to be about libraries, of which we have only
1585 on hackage.
It's not just about the _number_ of libraries, but the _usefulness_ of
them for solving real-world problems. Haskell has a large number of
libraries that
I'm not saying Haskell is unstable. I'm saying that the attitude
expressed in the following quote is at odds with the needs of business:
And as far as something like dealing with a changing language and
libraries, the mainstream already has well-established and popular
techniques for
Sorry boss, but we're just not going to be able to meet that deadline,
because, well, a language extension we were using was dropped from the
language, and the syntax for some core operators was changed. Not only is
our code broken, but many of the libraries we were using are broken. Don't
Fairly late to the party on this discussion, but this captured my attention:
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Curt Sampson
c...@starling-software.comwrote:
This may be somewhat anecdotal evidence, but I disagree with both
of your statements here. I've rarely known anybody to use Java
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 10:54 AM, John A. De Goes j...@n-brain.net wrote:
On Oct 1, 2009, at 12:13 AM, Curt Sampson wrote:
And as far as something like dealing with a changing language and
libraries, the mainstream already has well-established and popular
techniques for doing just: agile
On Oct 2, 2009, at 18:46 , Edward Kmett wrote:
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 10:54 AM, John A. De Goes j...@n-brain.net
wrote:
On Oct 1, 2009, at 12:13 AM, Curt Sampson wrote:
And as far as something like dealing with a changing language and
libraries, the mainstream already has well-established and
On 2009-09-29 13:18 +0200 (Tue), Alberto G. Corona wrote:
What is the vehicle that haskell can use to enter the mainstream?.
Actually, I have one more thought on that: wait.
I'd had the impression that Haskell was becoming fairly well known (if
not yet heavily used, in comparison to languages
On 2009-09-30 21:27 +0200 (Wed), Alberto G. Corona wrote:
Do you really want, in 2020, to look back at the 2010 revision of the
Haskell standard and think, we entrenched things that for a decade
everybody agreed was dumb?
I see no problem in haskell having both. experimental and fixed
Curt Sampson c...@starling-software.com writes:
Java is part of the Java platform, that brought OS independence and
interoperability at the right time. .Download-execution on the client
was also a reason for the initial success of Java in the Internet era.
This may be somewhat anecdotal
Curt,
2009/9/29 Curt Sampson c...@starling-software.com
On 2009-09-29 13:18 +0200 (Tue), Alberto G. Corona wrote:
Java is part of the Java platform, that brought OS independence and
interoperability at the right time. .Download-execution on the client
was also a reason for the initial
The cross-platform features have been extremely important to the
success of Java, because they have greatly expanded the number of
libraries available to developers.
On Haskell Cafe, not a week goes by that Windows (and sometimes Mac)
developers don't complain about not being able to use
fwiw I found it difficult getting a Haskell installation onto Windows.
Packages that would 'cabal install' just fine on Linux were much more of
a pain on Windows. Eventually, I actually found it easiest to cross
compile to Windows using wine:
wine HaskellPlatform-2009.2.0.2-setup.exe
wine
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Robert Wills wrwi...@gmail.com wrote:
fwiw I found it difficult getting a Haskell installation onto Windows.
Packages that would 'cabal install' just fine on Linux were much more of a
pain on Windows. Eventually, I actually found it easiest to cross compile
forwarded to the list:
Curt,
Rubi and Pyton came into existencie without their internet libraries, but
they would´nt be popular without them. Although I conffess I don´t know the
history in detail.
Academics is not mainstream.
2009/9/29 Curt Sampson c...@starling-software.com
On 2009-09-29
This reminds me of the whole agent thing -- pretty much dominated by
Java (e.g., Jade, Jason, Jack) nowadays --, for which I would bet lots
things are done more straigthforward using Haskell -- especially those parts
the Java coders are usually proud of... Let's maybe speak of *second
These problems are critical -- but not hopeless, I think:
(1) A simple technical matter, any average Haskell programmer (including
myself...) can build a platform, e.g. in Happstack or the like, to clear
this up (given you want to do this in Haskell ;-).
(4) This is a special one, which I
Some thoughs:
Most successful languages spread because they are part of a platform which
solves an IT problem. C was part of Unix, both brougth CPU independence when
this was necessary. Java is part of the Java platform, that brougth OS
independence and interoperability at the right time.
If there is demand for shops to work on smaller jobs in haskell then I
think a having a more specific marketplace/communication platform for
haskell work would be very helpful. If there is a perceived demand, supply
will soon follow.
- Job
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:48 AM, Jörg Roman Rudnick
On 2009-09-29 13:18 +0200 (Tue), Alberto G. Corona wrote:
Java is part of the Java platform, that brought OS independence and
interoperability at the right time. .Download-execution on the client
was also a reason for the initial success of Java in the Internet era.
I was a die-hard Java
Alberto G. Corona wrote:
Most successful languages spread because they are part of a platform
which solves an IT problem. C was part of Unix, both brougth CPU
independence when this was necessary. Java is part of the Java
platform, that brougth OS independence and interoperability at the
SORRY... it's *far after midnight* here... of course: Paul Hudak:
http://cs-www.cs.yale.edu/homes/hudak-paul/
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In the last months, I made the experience it seems difficult to find
commercial Haskell developer teams to take responsibility for projects
in the range of $ 10.000 - 100.000. The Industrial Haskell Group does
not seem to be the appropriate place for this, while harvesting Haskell
team at
It's very difficult to find information on:
1. How many Haskell developers are out there;
2. What a typical salary is for a Haskell developer;
3. Whether or not the skills of a typical Haskell developer scale to
large applications (most Haskell developers are hobby Haskellers and
have only
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