Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
Hi Cafe. I have thought that a more interesting metric might be to send the maintainer an email when their package stops building automatically on hackage. I think, this is must have feature for new hackage. If error was occured during build, send email to maintainer: Error occured while building your package name with GHC version. Build log: If you are to fix it in a week [month?], please send reply for this message. If answer was received, then do not send such notifications every time during specified period (say, a week or month). If after end of this period, package still could not be build, then send next notification, maybe with additional question: If you are to maintain this package, please send a reply for this message... With any scenario, build failed notifications is a must have feature. WBR, Ilya Portnov. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
On 7 May 2013 17:36, Ilya Portnov port...@iportnov.ru wrote: Hi Cafe. I have thought that a more interesting metric might be to send the maintainer an email when their package stops building automatically on hackage. I think, this is must have feature for new hackage. If error was occured during build, send email to maintainer: Except that there are various reasons a package won't build on Hackage: * Temporary glitch with another Haskell dependency (e.g. package Foo depends upon Bar-x.*; maintainer of Bar uploads a new point release of Bar that fails to build just before Foo's maintainer uploads the new version, thus the build server picks the buggy version of Bar and thus the new version of Foo fails to build). * Requires a foreign library that isn't installed on the Hackage build server. * OS-dependent. -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com http://IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
+1. I would be more than happy to receive such an email every 3 months and quickly scan the page to update the maintained status for each of the packages where I'm marked as the maintainer. One modification I would make is to persist the checked state across emails. They should all be unchecked in the very first email for a given user. Later emails should preload the previous submission, i.e. the current state, so the user doesn't have to do a bunch of work if nothing is changed. That could get annoying for people who maintain 10s of packages on Hackage. This is obvious, but that page should also be accessible through some My Profile page so that I don't have to wait until I get the email if I want to modify a status. I also wonder if it might be worth it to have a little bit more detail than just maintained and not maintained as possible flags. Something like the following would be nice (I'm sure there are better names; I just don't have the time right now) : - Actively Developed (Meaning: The package is alive, it's a priority and it's actively improved) - Maintained (Meaning: I make sure it doesn't break, semantics are preserved but no major enhancements) - Life Support (Meaning: I just keep it compiling with no effort towards correctness, i.e. use with caution) - Deprecated/Unmaintained On Monday, May 6, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Dan P. wrote: On Monday 06 May 2013 14:34:13 Tobias Dammers wrote: The problem is that people tend to (truthfully) check such a box, then stop maintaining the package for whatever reasons, and never bother unchecking the box. I think there should be just one mail per maintainer mail address, not per package. The notification mail should provide a link to a page, that shows all packages maintained by this user (mail address). Every checkbox should be unchecked by default whether there is activity in the repo or not. This way, the maintainers wouldn't get annoyed by hackage mail spam and to check a couple of checkboxes just takes a few minutes. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org (mailto:Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org) http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
Some further ideas: - Make the periodic maintainership reminders optional. Every developer would be able to choose if (s)he wishes to receive them or not. I believe many would choose to receive them. - Maintain the last date the maintainership has been verified - either by an upload of a new version or by explicitly by the author (like by answering a reminder). This way, visitors would have a clear indication what could they expect, regardless of the reminders. - Add some estimate based on the packages that depend on this one. For example, take the maximum of these dates for all packages depending on this one maintained by the same author. It's very likely that if the same person actively develops something that is based on a package, (s)he will care about the package too, even if it hasn't been updated for a while. This would solve perfect stable packages like deepseq. - Alternatively, reminders could be human-triggered, instead of being sent automatically. If the date is older than some bound (like those 3 months), there could be a button like query maintainership. If a visitor presses it, Hackage would send the reminder to the author (if it hasn't sent one recently, of course). This way, the reminder would be sent only for packages that somebody is actually interested in. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
07.05.2013 14:21, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic пишет: On 7 May 2013 17:36, Ilya Portnovport...@iportnov.ru wrote: Hi Cafe. I have thought that a more interesting metric might be to send the maintainer an email when their package stops building automatically on hackage. I think, this is must have feature for new hackage. If error was occured during build, send email to maintainer: Except that there are various reasons a package won't build on Hackage: * Temporary glitch with another Haskell dependency (e.g. package Foo depends upon Bar-x.*; maintainer of Bar uploads a new point release of Bar that fails to build just before Foo's maintainer uploads the new version, thus the build server picks the buggy version of Bar and thus the new version of Foo fails to build). * Requires a foreign library that isn't installed on the Hackage build server. * OS-dependent. Anyway, if package does not build, only maintainer can know why and what to do with it. As for OS- and environment-dependent packages, it would be nice to let maintainer mark package as not buildable, so that hackage should not try to build it. WBR, Ilya Portnov. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
Hi, Petr Pudlák wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: *Niklas Hambüchen* m...@nh2.me mailto:m...@nh2.me Date: 2013/5/4 ... I would even be happy with newhackage sending every package maintainer a quarterly question Would you still call your project X 'maintained'? for each package they maintain; Hackage could really give us better indications concerning this. This sounds to me like a very good idea. It could be as simple as If you consider yourself to be the maintainer of package X please just hit reply and send. If Hackage doesn't get an answer, it'd just would display some red text like This package seems to be unmaintained since D.M.Y. I like the idea of displaying additional info about the status of package development, but I don't like the idea of annoying hard-working package maintainers with emails about their perfect packages that actually didn't need any updates since ages ago. So what about this: Hackage could try to automatically collect and display information about the development status of packages that allow potential users to *guess* whether the package is maintained or not. Currently, potential users have to collect this information themselves. Here are some examples I have in mind: * Fetch the timestamp of the latest commit from the HEAD repo * Fetch the number of open issues from the issue tracker * Display reverse dependencies on the main hackage page * Show the timestamp of the last Hackage upload of the uploader Tillmann ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
On 06/05/13 17:46, Tillmann Rendel wrote: So what about this: Hackage could try to automatically collect and display information about the development status of packages that allow potential users to *guess* In my opinion, that's what we have now. Obtaining the info in the four points you mention from their respective sources usually takes less than a minute in sum - hackage saving me that minute would give me little added value. Having the metrics you mention is nice, but still they are just metrics and say little the only thing that's important: Is there a human who commits themselves to this package? I like the idea of displaying additional info about the status of package development, but I don't like the idea of annoying hard-working package maintainers with emails about their perfect packages I really think this is not too big of a deal, getting one email every 3 months and clicking a few checkboxes. Probably fits into one cabal update. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
Hi, Niklas Hambüchen wrote: Having the metrics you mention is nice, but still they are just metrics and say little the only thing that's important: Is there a human who commits themselves to this package? I like the idea of displaying additional info about the status of package development, but I don't like the idea of annoying hard-working package maintainers with emails about their perfect packages I really think this is not too big of a deal, getting one email every 3 months and clicking a few checkboxes. Is a human clicked the check box a good metric for a human commits themselves to this package? Tillmann ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
Don't underestimate how greatly people appreciate being saved a couple of minutes! On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me wrote: On 06/05/13 17:46, Tillmann Rendel wrote: So what about this: Hackage could try to automatically collect and display information about the development status of packages that allow potential users to *guess* In my opinion, that's what we have now. Obtaining the info in the four points you mention from their respective sources usually takes less than a minute in sum - hackage saving me that minute would give me little added value. Having the metrics you mention is nice, but still they are just metrics and say little the only thing that's important: Is there a human who commits themselves to this package? I like the idea of displaying additional info about the status of package development, but I don't like the idea of annoying hard-working package maintainers with emails about their perfect packages I really think this is not too big of a deal, getting one email every 3 months and clicking a few checkboxes. Probably fits into one cabal update. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
On 06/05/13 20:06, Tillmann Rendel wrote: Is a human clicked the check box a good metric for a human commits themselves to this package? If the check box has the text Do you want this thing to be called 'maintained' on Hackage next to it, yes. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
On Mon, May 06, 2013 at 08:14:59PM +0800, Niklas Hambüchen wrote: On 06/05/13 20:06, Tillmann Rendel wrote: Is a human clicked the check box a good metric for a human commits themselves to this package? If the check box has the text Do you want this thing to be called 'maintained' on Hackage next to it, yes. The problem is that people tend to (truthfully) check such a box, then stop maintaining the package for whatever reasons, and never bother unchecking the box. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
Well, that's what the once every 3 months is good for. On Mon 06 May 2013 20:34:13 SGT, Tobias Dammers wrote: The problem is that people tend to (truthfully) check such a box, then stop maintaining the package for whatever reasons, and never bother unchecking the box. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
is that really a problem though? Who's problem are we trying to solve? Is this being proposed to help seasoned haskellers, or make getting started easier for new folks? those are two VERY different problems. Also many of the maintainers for heavily used packages are incredibly busy as is, do they need to keep track of even *more* email? I'd hope not. In some respects, just having the hackage2 deps and revdeps stats is a good proxy for how likely a package is to be well maintained. On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me wrote: Well, that's what the once every 3 months is good for. On Mon 06 May 2013 20:34:13 SGT, Tobias Dammers wrote: The problem is that people tend to (truthfully) check such a box, then stop maintaining the package for whatever reasons, and never bother unchecking the box. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
I do think it's a real problem even for seasoned haskellers. I don't have problems in remembering which packages I should use for the things I've already used before recently, but I need to search Hackage just as everyone else as soon as I need to do something new. I also agree that this is more of a social problem not a tooling one. Hackage would just provide a tool for helping this kind of social interaction. On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Carter Schonwald carter.schonw...@gmail.com wrote: is that really a problem though? Who's problem are we trying to solve? Is this being proposed to help seasoned haskellers, or make getting started easier for new folks? those are two VERY different problems. Also many of the maintainers for heavily used packages are incredibly busy as is, do they need to keep track of even *more* email? I'd hope not. In some respects, just having the hackage2 deps and revdeps stats is a good proxy for how likely a package is to be well maintained. On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me wrote: Well, that's what the once every 3 months is good for. On Mon 06 May 2013 20:34:13 SGT, Tobias Dammers wrote: The problem is that people tend to (truthfully) check such a box, then stop maintaining the package for whatever reasons, and never bother unchecking the box. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Felipe. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
2013/5/6 Tillmann Rendel ren...@informatik.uni-marburg.de Petr Pudlák wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: *Niklas Hambüchen* m...@nh2.me mailto:m...@nh2.me Date: 2013/5/4 ... I would even be happy with newhackage sending every package maintainer a quarterly question Would you still call your project X 'maintained'? for each package they maintain; Hackage could really give us better indications concerning this. This sounds to me like a very good idea. It could be as simple as If you consider yourself to be the maintainer of package X please just hit reply and send. If Hackage doesn't get an answer, it'd just would display some red text like This package seems to be unmaintained since D.M.Y. I like the idea of displaying additional info about the status of package development, but I don't like the idea of annoying hard-working package maintainers with emails about their perfect packages that actually didn't need any updates since ages ago. I understand, but replying to an email with an empty body or clicking on a link once in a few months doesn't seem to be an issue for me. And if somebody is very busy and doesn't update the package, it's more fair to signal from the start that (s)he doesn't want to maintain the package. Personally it happened to me perhaps several times that I used a promising package and discovered later that's it's not being maintained. I'd say that the amount of time required to confirm if authors maintain their packages is negligible compared to the amount of time people lose this way. Just out of curiosity, do you have some examples of such packages, that are being maintained, but not updated since they're near perfect? I'd like to know if this is a real issue. It seems to me So what about this: Hackage could try to automatically collect and display information about the development status of packages that allow potential users to *guess* whether the package is maintained or not. Currently, potential users have to collect this information themselves. Here are some examples I have in mind: * Fetch the timestamp of the latest commit from the HEAD repo * Fetch the number of open issues from the issue tracker * Display reverse dependencies on the main hackage page * Show the timestamp of the last Hackage upload of the uploader Tillmann Those are good ideas. Some suggestions: I think we already have the timestamp of each upload, this already gives some information. Perhaps we could add a very simple feature saying how long ago that was and adding a warning color (like yellow if more than a year and red if more than two years). Reverse dependencies would certainly help a lot, but it works only for libraries, not for programs. (Although it's less likely that someone would search hackage for programs.) The problem with issue trackers is that (a) many packages don't have one, (b) there are many different issue trackers. Best regards, Petr ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
Deepseq comes to mind regarding a perfect package that doesn't require active maintenance. - Clark On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Petr Pudlák petr@gmail.com wrote: 2013/5/6 Tillmann Rendel ren...@informatik.uni-marburg.de Petr Pudlák wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: *Niklas Hambüchen* m...@nh2.me mailto:m...@nh2.me Date: 2013/5/4 ... I would even be happy with newhackage sending every package maintainer a quarterly question Would you still call your project X 'maintained'? for each package they maintain; Hackage could really give us better indications concerning this. This sounds to me like a very good idea. It could be as simple as If you consider yourself to be the maintainer of package X please just hit reply and send. If Hackage doesn't get an answer, it'd just would display some red text like This package seems to be unmaintained since D.M.Y. I like the idea of displaying additional info about the status of package development, but I don't like the idea of annoying hard-working package maintainers with emails about their perfect packages that actually didn't need any updates since ages ago. I understand, but replying to an email with an empty body or clicking on a link once in a few months doesn't seem to be an issue for me. And if somebody is very busy and doesn't update the package, it's more fair to signal from the start that (s)he doesn't want to maintain the package. Personally it happened to me perhaps several times that I used a promising package and discovered later that's it's not being maintained. I'd say that the amount of time required to confirm if authors maintain their packages is negligible compared to the amount of time people lose this way. Just out of curiosity, do you have some examples of such packages, that are being maintained, but not updated since they're near perfect? I'd like to know if this is a real issue. It seems to me So what about this: Hackage could try to automatically collect and display information about the development status of packages that allow potential users to *guess* whether the package is maintained or not. Currently, potential users have to collect this information themselves. Here are some examples I have in mind: * Fetch the timestamp of the latest commit from the HEAD repo * Fetch the number of open issues from the issue tracker * Display reverse dependencies on the main hackage page * Show the timestamp of the last Hackage upload of the uploader Tillmann Those are good ideas. Some suggestions: I think we already have the timestamp of each upload, this already gives some information. Perhaps we could add a very simple feature saying how long ago that was and adding a warning color (like yellow if more than a year and red if more than two years). Reverse dependencies would certainly help a lot, but it works only for libraries, not for programs. (Although it's less likely that someone would search hackage for programs.) The problem with issue trackers is that (a) many packages don't have one, (b) there are many different issue trackers. Best regards, Petr ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
On Monday 06 May 2013 14:34:13 Tobias Dammers wrote: The problem is that people tend to (truthfully) check such a box, then stop maintaining the package for whatever reasons, and never bother unchecking the box. I think there should be just one mail per maintainer mail address, not per package. The notification mail should provide a link to a page, that shows all packages maintained by this user (mail address). Every checkbox should be unchecked by default whether there is activity in the repo or not. This way, the maintainers wouldn't get annoyed by hackage mail spam and to check a couple of checkboxes just takes a few minutes. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
Being in favor of not needlessly harassing people, even for a few minutes, I would favor issuing such emails only when there is some reason to believe that the package is not maintained. The two situations I can see that would justify such an email: - A dependency exceeds the upper bound listed in the cabal file. - It fails to build on the most recent GHC with its listed dependencies. Every three months, issue one email per address listing packages that are in one of those conditions at the moment and have been for at least a week (or longer--I care little there). I think this strikes a good balance between bothering people needlessly and doing nothing (although it does not properly catch unmaintained packages that build but with serious bugs; I welcome any automatic ways to determine that with reasonably low false positive rates). --IRS ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
Hi, on another thread there was a suggestion which perhaps went unnoticed by most: -- Forwarded message -- From: Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me Date: 2013/5/4 ... I would even be happy with newhackage sending every package maintainer a quarterly question Would you still call your project X 'maintained'? for each package they maintain; Hackage could really give us better indications concerning this. This sounds to me like a very good idea. It could be as simple as If you consider yourself to be the maintainer of package X please just hit reply and send. If Hackage doesn't get an answer, it'd just would display some red text like This package seems to be unmaintained since D.M.Y. Best regards, Petr ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
On May 5, 2013 7:25 AM, Petr Pudlák petr@gmail.com wrote: Hi, on another thread there was a suggestion which perhaps went unnoticed by most: -- Forwarded message -- From: Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me Date: 2013/5/4 ... I would even be happy with newhackage sending every package maintainer a quarterly question Would you still call your project X 'maintained'? for each package they maintain; Hackage could really give us better indications concerning this. This sounds to me like a very good idea. It could be as simple as If you consider yourself to be the maintainer of package X please just hit reply and send. If Hackage doesn't get an answer, it'd just would display some red text like This package seems to be unmaintained since D.M.Y. Best regards, Petr For those packages that give a repository, a query could be done automatically to see when it was last updated. It's not the same thing as 'being maintained', but is less annoying for those people with many packages on hackage. Doug ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
I'd say: - If a package has UNMAINTAINED (perhaps also DEPRECATED?) somewhere in its title/description, don't do anything. - Otherwise if the package hasn't been updated for past 3 months, send a quarterly reminder (including the information under what conditions the reminder is sent). 2013/5/5 Doug Burke dburke...@gmail.com On May 5, 2013 7:25 AM, Petr Pudlák petr@gmail.com wrote: Hi, on another thread there was a suggestion which perhaps went unnoticed by most: -- Forwarded message -- From: Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me Date: 2013/5/4 ... I would even be happy with newhackage sending every package maintainer a quarterly question Would you still call your project X 'maintained'? for each package they maintain; Hackage could really give us better indications concerning this. This sounds to me like a very good idea. It could be as simple as If you consider yourself to be the maintainer of package X please just hit reply and send. If Hackage doesn't get an answer, it'd just would display some red text like This package seems to be unmaintained since D.M.Y. Best regards, Petr For those packages that give a repository, a query could be done automatically to see when it was last updated. It's not the same thing as 'being maintained', but is less annoying for those people with many packages on hackage. Doug ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
And we can have something on hackage that does this check automatically! And we can put unmaintained in the description! And then we can leave it unmaintained! Unmaintained should have its own flag, I think... On 5/5/2013 2:28 PM, Petr Pudlák wrote: I'd say: - If a package has UNMAINTAINED (perhaps also DEPRECATED?) somewhere in its title/description, don't do anything. - Otherwise if the package hasn't been updated for past 3 months, send a quarterly reminder (including the information under what conditions the reminder is sent). 2013/5/5 Doug Burke dburke...@gmail.com mailto:dburke...@gmail.com On May 5, 2013 7:25 AM, Petr Pudlák petr@gmail.com mailto:petr@gmail.com wrote: Hi, on another thread there was a suggestion which perhaps went unnoticed by most: -- Forwarded message -- From: Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me mailto:m...@nh2.me Date: 2013/5/4 ... I would even be happy with newhackage sending every package maintainer a quarterly question Would you still call your project X 'maintained'? for each package they maintain; Hackage could really give us better indications concerning this. This sounds to me like a very good idea. It could be as simple as If you consider yourself to be the maintainer of package X please just hit reply and send. If Hackage doesn't get an answer, it'd just would display some red text like This package seems to be unmaintained since D.M.Y. Best regards, Petr For those packages that give a repository, a query could be done automatically to see when it was last updated. It's not the same thing as 'being maintained', but is less annoying for those people with many packages on hackage. Doug ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
Just checking the repo wouldn't work. It may still have some activity but not be maintained and vice-versa. On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Doug Burke dburke...@gmail.com wrote: On May 5, 2013 7:25 AM, Petr Pudlák petr@gmail.com wrote: Hi, on another thread there was a suggestion which perhaps went unnoticed by most: -- Forwarded message -- From: Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me Date: 2013/5/4 ... I would even be happy with newhackage sending every package maintainer a quarterly question Would you still call your project X 'maintained'? for each package they maintain; Hackage could really give us better indications concerning this. This sounds to me like a very good idea. It could be as simple as If you consider yourself to be the maintainer of package X please just hit reply and send. If Hackage doesn't get an answer, it'd just would display some red text like This package seems to be unmaintained since D.M.Y. Best regards, Petr For those packages that give a repository, a query could be done automatically to see when it was last updated. It's not the same thing as 'being maintained', but is less annoying for those people with many packages on hackage. Doug ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Felipe. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
On 6 May 2013 09:42, Felipe Almeida Lessa felipe.le...@gmail.com wrote: Just checking the repo wouldn't work. It may still have some activity but not be maintained and vice-versa. ok, how about this: if the maintainer feels that their repo and maintenance activities are non-injective they can additionally provide an http-accessible URL for the maintenance activity. Hackage can then do an HTTP HEAD request on that URL and use the Last-Modified response header as an indication of the last time of maintenance activity. I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but actually this would allow you to point hackage to a blog as evidence of maintenance activity. I like the idea of just pinging the code repo. Conrad. On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Doug Burke dburke...@gmail.com wrote: On May 5, 2013 7:25 AM, Petr Pudlák petr@gmail.com wrote: Hi, on another thread there was a suggestion which perhaps went unnoticed by most: -- Forwarded message -- From: Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me Date: 2013/5/4 ... I would even be happy with newhackage sending every package maintainer a quarterly question Would you still call your project X 'maintained'? for each package they maintain; Hackage could really give us better indications concerning this. This sounds to me like a very good idea. It could be as simple as If you consider yourself to be the maintainer of package X please just hit reply and send. If Hackage doesn't get an answer, it'd just would display some red text like This package seems to be unmaintained since D.M.Y. Best regards, Petr For those packages that give a repository, a query could be done automatically to see when it was last updated. It's not the same thing as 'being maintained', but is less annoying for those people with many packages on hackage. Doug ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Felipe. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
But what if the package is already perfect? Jokes aside, I think that activity alone wouldn't be a good indicator. On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Conrad Parker con...@metadecks.org wrote: On 6 May 2013 09:42, Felipe Almeida Lessa felipe.le...@gmail.com wrote: Just checking the repo wouldn't work. It may still have some activity but not be maintained and vice-versa. ok, how about this: if the maintainer feels that their repo and maintenance activities are non-injective they can additionally provide an http-accessible URL for the maintenance activity. Hackage can then do an HTTP HEAD request on that URL and use the Last-Modified response header as an indication of the last time of maintenance activity. I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but actually this would allow you to point hackage to a blog as evidence of maintenance activity. I like the idea of just pinging the code repo. Conrad. On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Doug Burke dburke...@gmail.com wrote: On May 5, 2013 7:25 AM, Petr Pudlák petr@gmail.com wrote: Hi, on another thread there was a suggestion which perhaps went unnoticed by most: -- Forwarded message -- From: Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me Date: 2013/5/4 ... I would even be happy with newhackage sending every package maintainer a quarterly question Would you still call your project X 'maintained'? for each package they maintain; Hackage could really give us better indications concerning this. This sounds to me like a very good idea. It could be as simple as If you consider yourself to be the maintainer of package X please just hit reply and send. If Hackage doesn't get an answer, it'd just would display some red text like This package seems to be unmaintained since D.M.Y. Best regards, Petr For those packages that give a repository, a query could be done automatically to see when it was last updated. It's not the same thing as 'being maintained', but is less annoying for those people with many packages on hackage. Doug ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Felipe. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
If there's a github link in the package url, it could check the last update to the default branch. If it's more than 6 months ago, an email to the maintainer of is this package maintained? can be sent. If there's no reply in 3 months, the package is marked as unmaintained. If the email is ever responded to or a new version is uploaded, the package can be un-marked. - Clark On Sunday, May 5, 2013, Lyndon Maydwell wrote: I've got it! The answer was staring us in the face all along... We can just introduce backwards-compatibility breaking changes into GHC-head and see if the project fails to compile for x-time! That way we're SURE it's unmaintained. I'll stop sending emails now. On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Clark Gaebel cgae...@uwaterloo.cawrote: If there's a github link in the package url, it could check the last update to the default branch. If it's more than 6 months ago, an email to the maintainer of is this package maintained? can be sent. If there's no reply in 3 months, the package is marked as unmaintained. If the email is ever responded to or a new version is uploaded, the package can be un-marked. - Clark On Sunday, May 5, 2013, Lyndon Maydwell wrote: But what if the package is already perfect? Jokes aside, I think that activity alone wouldn't be a good indicator. On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Conrad Parker con...@metadecks.orgwrote: On 6 May 2013 09:42, Felipe Almeida Lessa felipe.le...@gmail.com wrote: Just checking the repo wouldn't work. It may still have some activity but not be maintained and vice-versa. ok, how about this: if the maintainer feels that their repo and maintenance activities are non-injective they can additionally provide an http-accessible URL for the maintenance activity. Hackage can then do an HTTP HEAD request on that URL and use the Last-Modified response header as an indication of the last time of maintenance activity. I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but actually this would allow you to point hackage to a blog as evidence of maintenance activity. I like the idea of just pinging the code repo. Conrad. On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Doug Burke dburke...@gmail.com wrote: On May 5, 2013 7:25 AM, Petr Pudlák petr@gmail.com wrote: Hi, on another thread there was a suggestion which perhaps went unnoticed by most: -- Forwarded message -- From: Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me Date: 2013/5/4 ... I would even be happy with newhackage sending every package maintainer a quarterly question Would you still call your project X 'maintained'? for each package they maintain; Hackage could really give us better indications concerning this. This sounds to me like a very good idea. It could be as simple as If you consider yourself to be the maintainer of package X please just hit reply and send. If Hackage doesn't get an answer, it'd just would display some red text like This package seems to be unmaintained since D.M.Y. Best regards, Petr For those packages that give a repository, a query could be done automatically to see when it was last updated. It's not the same thing as 'being maintained', but is less annoying for those people with many packages on hackage. Doug ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Felipe. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
I don't think that activity in the repo has too much to do with something being maintained. Maintainance is a thing humans commit to, so the question of whether something is maintained should be a question to a human. I often push a quick build failure fix for my packages, some of which I would still in not want to call maintained. On Mon 06 May 2013 10:57:49 SGT, Clark Gaebel wrote: If there's a github link in the package url, it could check the last update to the default branch. If it's more than 6 months ago, an email to the maintainer of is this package maintained? can be sent. If there's no reply in 3 months, the package is marked as unmaintained. If the email is ever responded to or a new version is uploaded, the package can be un-marked. - Clark On Sunday, May 5, 2013, Lyndon Maydwell wrote: I've got it! The answer was staring us in the face all along... We can just introduce backwards-compatibility breaking changes into GHC-head and see if the project fails to compile for x-time! That way we're SURE it's unmaintained. I'll stop sending emails now. On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Clark Gaebel cgae...@uwaterloo.ca wrote: If there's a github link in the package url, it could check the last update to the default branch. If it's more than 6 months ago, an email to the maintainer of is this package maintained? can be sent. If there's no reply in 3 months, the package is marked as unmaintained. If the email is ever responded to or a new version is uploaded, the package can be un-marked. - Clark On Sunday, May 5, 2013, Lyndon Maydwell wrote: But what if the package is already perfect? Jokes aside, I think that activity alone wouldn't be a good indicator. On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Conrad Parker con...@metadecks.org wrote: On 6 May 2013 09:42, Felipe Almeida Lessa felipe.le...@gmail.com wrote: Just checking the repo wouldn't work. It may still have some activity but not be maintained and vice-versa. ok, how about this: if the maintainer feels that their repo and maintenance activities are non-injective they can additionally provide an http-accessible URL for the maintenance activity. Hackage can then do an HTTP HEAD request on that URL and use the Last-Modified response header as an indication of the last time of maintenance activity. I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but actually this would allow you to point hackage to a blog as evidence of maintenance activity. I like the idea of just pinging the code repo. Conrad. On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Doug Burke dburke...@gmail.com wrote: On May 5, 2013 7:25 AM, Petr Pudlák petr@gmail.com wrote: Hi, on another thread there was a suggestion which perhaps went unnoticed by most: -- Forwarded message -- From: Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me Date: 2013/5/4 ... I would even be happy with newhackage sending every package maintainer a quarterly question Would you still call your project X 'maintained'? for each package they maintain; Hackage could really give us better indications concerning this. This sounds to me like a very good idea. It could be as simple as If you consider yourself to be the maintainer of package X please just hit reply and send. If Hackage doesn't get an answer, it'd just would display some red text like This package seems to be unmaintained since D.M.Y. Best regards, Petr For those packages that give a repository, a query could be done automatically to see when it was last updated. It's not the same thing as 'being maintained', but is less annoying for those people with many packages on hackage. Doug
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hackage checking maintainership of packages
Yes -- being maintained, and have a lot of commit activity are not the same thing. There are many simple libraries which do not require much ongoing develop. They are designed to do something of limited scope, and they only need to be updated when something breaks. I have thought that a more interesting metric might be to send the maintainer an email when their package stops building automatically on hackage. Then assign some weight based on whether or not they fix things, and how often. - jeremy On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 10:34 PM, Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me wrote: I don't think that activity in the repo has too much to do with something being maintained. Maintainance is a thing humans commit to, so the question of whether something is maintained should be a question to a human. I often push a quick build failure fix for my packages, some of which I would still in not want to call maintained. On Mon 06 May 2013 10:57:49 SGT, Clark Gaebel wrote: If there's a github link in the package url, it could check the last update to the default branch. If it's more than 6 months ago, an email to the maintainer of is this package maintained? can be sent. If there's no reply in 3 months, the package is marked as unmaintained. If the email is ever responded to or a new version is uploaded, the package can be un-marked. - Clark On Sunday, May 5, 2013, Lyndon Maydwell wrote: I've got it! The answer was staring us in the face all along... We can just introduce backwards-compatibility breaking changes into GHC-head and see if the project fails to compile for x-time! That way we're SURE it's unmaintained. I'll stop sending emails now. On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Clark Gaebel cgae...@uwaterloo.ca wrote: If there's a github link in the package url, it could check the last update to the default branch. If it's more than 6 months ago, an email to the maintainer of is this package maintained? can be sent. If there's no reply in 3 months, the package is marked as unmaintained. If the email is ever responded to or a new version is uploaded, the package can be un-marked. - Clark On Sunday, May 5, 2013, Lyndon Maydwell wrote: But what if the package is already perfect? Jokes aside, I think that activity alone wouldn't be a good indicator. On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Conrad Parker con...@metadecks.org wrote: On 6 May 2013 09:42, Felipe Almeida Lessa felipe.le...@gmail.com wrote: Just checking the repo wouldn't work. It may still have some activity but not be maintained and vice-versa. ok, how about this: if the maintainer feels that their repo and maintenance activities are non-injective they can additionally provide an http-accessible URL for the maintenance activity. Hackage can then do an HTTP HEAD request on that URL and use the Last-Modified response header as an indication of the last time of maintenance activity. I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but actually this would allow you to point hackage to a blog as evidence of maintenance activity. I like the idea of just pinging the code repo. Conrad. On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Doug Burke dburke...@gmail.com wrote: On May 5, 2013 7:25 AM, Petr Pudlák petr@gmail.com wrote: Hi, on another thread there was a suggestion which perhaps went unnoticed by most: -- Forwarded message -- From: Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me Date: 2013/5/4 ... I would even be happy with newhackage sending every package maintainer a quarterly question Would you still call your project X 'maintained'? for each package they maintain; Hackage could really give us better indications concerning this. This sounds to me like a very good idea. It could be as simple as If you consider yourself to be the maintainer of package X please just hit reply and send. If Hackage doesn't get an answer, it'd just would display some red text like This package seems to
