Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

> On 16 Apr 2016, at 11:19 , Lester Caine wrote: > > On 16/04/16 06:56, André Rømcke wrote: This actually summarises many of the problems all of these 'extras' are creating for very little gain. 'Seconds' is a 'Traditional Property' so is untyped and if

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

On 16/04/16 06:56, André Rømcke wrote: >> > This actually summarises many of the problems all of these 'extras' are >> > creating for very little gain. >> > >> > 'Seconds' is a 'Traditional Property' so is untyped and if accessed as a >> > value from some OS's will be a floating point number[...]

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

On 14. apr. 2016, at 11.47, Lester Caine wrote: > >> On 14/04/16 08:52, André Rømcke wrote: >> * https://wiki.php.net/rfc/propertygetsetsyntax-v1.2 > > This actually summarises many of the problems all of these 'extras' are > creating for very little gain. > > 'Seconds' is

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

On 14/04/16 08:52, André Rømcke wrote: > * https://wiki.php.net/rfc/propertygetsetsyntax-v1.2 This actually summarises many of the problems all of these 'extras' are creating for very little gain. 'Seconds' is a 'Traditional Property' so is untyped and if accessed as a value from some OS's will

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

> On 14 Apr 2016, at 00:36 , Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > > With getters/setters, the answer is clear - yes, you can extend it with > setters, but if your invariant relies on immutability, you'd be > violating LSP. With properties, not clear. So in summary preference

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

Hi! > var class ?!? > var function ?!? > var const ?!? > var static ?!? Ah, of course not. "var" is for vars. > I did not say that a userland developer should care I only stated that > it is one difference between a constant and a final property. ;) This is not a difference that is important.

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

On 4/13/2016 10:18 PM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > How exactly it isn't? Except for "static"/"const" thing (which is really > a parser glitch and could be easily fixed if anybody cared) I don't see > a difference. Pretending like that static/const thing is a serious issue > that warrants some deep

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

Hi! > Well, no. The differences are well explained in the deprecation RFC: > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/var_deprecation "var is currently a simple alias for public. " > The documentation states the *var* is a substitute for *public* but in > reality it isn't. How exactly it isn't? Except for

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

On 4/13/2016 6:42 AM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > Hi! > >> The *var* keyword is not going to be deprecated and its meaning is >> currently kind of ambiguous. I tried to assign it a new meaning in >> the > > Why is it ambiguous? It's pretty well defined, it's the same as public. > Well, no.

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

Hi! > The *var* keyword is not going to be deprecated and its meaning is > currently kind of ambiguous. I tried to assign it a new meaning in > the Why is it ambiguous? It's pretty well defined, it's the same as public. > class Foo { > > val $x; > > var $y; > > val $z; > > } > > class Bar

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

On 4/11/2016 7:12 PM, Fleshgrinder wrote: > Support for mutable public properties is a different story but allowing > them would destroy the encapsulation and I am against it without anyone > bringing some good arguments that convince me. > This of course would be different with the RFC you

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

On 4/11/2016 6:59 AM, Larry Garfield wrote: > There's an important point here that should not be missed. If these > values are "write once then locked', which I can definitely see as > useful, we need to have another shot at modifying them from __clone(). > If not, they are effectively useless

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

/Sending this again because the PHP mail server was down./ I thought some more about it and I think that the best choices would be *val* (for /value/) and *var* (for /variable/) as in Scala. Why? The *var* keyword is not going to be deprecated and its meaning is currently kind of ambiguous. I

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

On 4/11/16 5:51 AM, André Rømcke wrote: On Apr 11, 2016, at 06:59 , Larry Garfield wrote: ... (Which leads to "can interfaces define properties", which leads right back to "well what can you do with them", which leads back to the Properties RFC. Which I still want to

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

I would prefer putting the "final" keyword before the "public". final public $items; Since we should emphasis "final" rather than "public"

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

There is a concept in storage devices that fits: Write Once Read Many (WORM) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_once_read_many final class Value { public worm $name; public function __construct(string $name) { $this->name = $name; } } I'm not aware of any programming

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

> On Apr 11, 2016, at 06:59 , Larry Garfield wrote: > ... > (Which leads to "can interfaces define properties", which leads right back to > "well what can you do with them", which leads back to the Properties RFC. > Which I still want to see happen at some point if at

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

On 04/05/2016 05:13 AM, Marco Pivetta wrote: Ad. 2. `final` means class variable (like static) or class instance property can not change their reference, it is impossible to replace zval in such property, in my opinion `immutable` is object behavior when using some methods you receive newly

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

Readonly is already used in the documentation for some things in the DOM book. Writeonce sounds strange. Sebastian Bergmann schrieb am Sa., 9. Apr. 2016 15:52: > Am 09.04.2016 um 12:55 schrieb Niklas Keller: > > Another possible choice would be "readonly". > > Rather

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

Am 09.04.2016 um 12:55 schrieb Niklas Keller: > Another possible choice would be "readonly". Rather "writeonce", no? -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

Another possible choice would be "readonly".

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

> On Apr 9, 2016, at 09:39 , Sebastian Bergmann wrote: > > Am 05.04.2016 um 11:13 schrieb Marco Pivetta: >> First of all: +1 to this: very useful for value objects! > > My thought exactly. Big +1 on this feature for the exact same reasons. > >> do we want to use `final`,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

Am 05.04.2016 um 11:13 schrieb Marco Pivetta: > First of all: +1 to this: very useful for value objects! My thought exactly. > do we want to use `final`, or `immutable` for these properties? I have the same sentiment you have, that "final" would be confusing and "immutable" would be better.

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

/Sending this again because the mail server was down./ +1 from my side too for this proposal. Retrofitting immutability with additional keywords is not the nicest thing but PHP has no other way (same was true for Java when they added it). Using the *final* keyword while subclasses are able to

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

On 5 April 2016 at 18:28, Chris Riley wrote: > > I started a discussion on this a while back, but it fizzled due to not > having an elegant solution for the 'give me a new one of these with these > values changed' problem. I would HIGHLY suggest not using the final > keyword.

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

On 5 April 2016 at 11:57, Michał Brzuchalski wrote: > Hi, > > 2016-04-05 12:13 GMT+02:00 Marco Pivetta : > > > Hi, > > > > On 5 April 2016 at 12:06, Michał Brzuchalski > > wrote: > > > >> Hi Marco, > >> > >> Ad. 1 it is

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

Hi Robert, Marco and Chris, now I see your point. Lastly I've found in DZone newsletter about Java putting `var` and `val` keywords, interesting is the second which is going to be used in case of immutable "variables" like a "values" (that's where `val` came from) see here

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

Hi, 2016-04-05 12:13 GMT+02:00 Marco Pivetta : > Hi, > > On 5 April 2016 at 12:06, Michał Brzuchalski > wrote: > >> Hi Marco, >> >> Ad. 1 it is posiible to redeclare in a sub-class final property as >> non-final, here is some gist presenting my

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

Hi, On 5 April 2016 at 12:06, Michał Brzuchalski wrote: > Hi Marco, > > Ad. 1 it is posiible to redeclare in a sub-class final property as > non-final, here is some gist presenting my current impl working like: >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

Hi Marco, Ad. 1 it is posiible to redeclare in a sub-class final property as non-final, here is some gist presenting my current impl working like: https://gist.github.com/brzuchal/12ebda1efed59440a78ba43bff116728 Ad. 2. `final` means class variable (like static) or class instance property can

Re: [PHP-DEV] Final properties

Hi Michał, First of all: +1 to this: very useful for value objects! A few questions: * can you re-declare a final property in a sub-class, making it therefore non-final? (I have reasons to do that, related with altering states via mappers) * do we want to use `final`, or `immutable` for these

[PHP-DEV] Final properties

Hey Internals, I'm new here. I've been wondering / working on adding final properties into PHP lang. This work started once I had the time to read the "Core Java for Impateient" by Cay S. Horstmann and found it very usefull to have final properties like Java. Those properties differ than