On Jul 6, 2:51 am, Reinier Zwitserloot reini...@gmail.com wrote:
The idea that java stopped growing, busied by a number of people in this
thread seems nuts to me. In what form could that statement possibly be true?
Java the Flash-like web plugin is dead in terms of mass market
consumer
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Casper Bang casper.b...@gmail.com wrote:
Android can not be used as an
argument here,
It depends what the argument is, and I confess being confused about what we
are discussing.
It's pretty obvious to me that Android has brought a lot of new developers
to
First, you suggest that Java is only hanging on due to lock-in and
that it lacks genuine developer interest. You could similarly say that
developers use the HTTP protocol because of lock-in rather than
being genuinely passionate about the protocol itself.
You're confusing standards with
If you're distinguishing between java the language and java the jvm - as we
seem to be here - then what you write when you make an android app looks a
lot like java the language.
That seems to suggest to me that people writing for the android platform
does in fact represent a lot of people writing
On Jul 1, 1:23 am, Casper Bang casper.b...@gmail.com wrote:
Sure I do, again when have I said otherwise?
Um, in your first post you said:
Neither Chrome, Firefox, Pacasa, Google
Earth or any other large known application (other than IDE's) are Java
based.
That statement is flat out wrong.
On Jun 30, 6:30 am, Casper Bang casper.b...@gmail.com wrote:
You're missing an important point however. The philosophy of Java has
always been, and still is, one language+library to rule them all. I
mean, look at the gigantic and clunky mandatory runtime and how bloody
hard it is to
Thinking about this, I think I'm curious to know what exactly is meant when
someone says a language is dead. What are some dead languages, besides
java? Would C be considered dead? How about FORTRAN? BASIC? Pascal? PL/1?
Algol?
To me, the use of a term like dead suggests a life cycle, and I'd say
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 11:56 AM, clay claytonw...@gmail.com wrote:
It's ridiculous to say that Java is dead.
When I glance at the Strange Loop conference, Java ecosystem tools are
quite prevalent: Scala is extremely popular, Clojure is popular as
well, Akka is a Scala/Java lib that has some
On Jul 1, 2:20 pm, Jon Kiparsky jon.kipar...@gmail.com wrote:
Thinking about this, I think I'm curious to know what exactly is meant when
someone says a language is dead.
I'd suggest the vocabulary of growth (Scala), mature (still useful
like XML or C), or obsolete (not practically used like
I go with more of how it makes me feel when I'm writing it. :) I
definitely feel dead when I'm jumping through some of the hoops that
Java requires. Especially now that I understand just how many there
are.
Similarly, I used to feel dirty deploying asp pages.
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 4:24 PM,
I'm developing daddy issues now.
On Jun 30, 4:11 pm, Mario Fusco mario.fu...@gmail.com wrote:
Most people talk about Java the language, and this may sound odd
coming from me, but I could hardly care less. - James Gosling, TSSJS
2011
Gosling stopped doing anything related to Java ten years ago, so this
statement doesn't exactly surprise me.
So did Sun. lol
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I think this (albeit lightweight) article on The Register adds some
food for thought:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/30/java_misses_the_point_under_oracle/
I think the article's premise is right. Java has fallen too far
behind. Freeze the language spec at Java 7 and focus on the JVM and
Well I don't totally disagree with you - I found the register article to be
lightweight and not fully considered - almost to the point of unconscious(?)
self-ridicule - if the cloud is what you define it to be, Oracle can define it
on their own terms.
Neither do I take the James Gosling
On Jun 30, 1:38 pm, Fabrizio Giudici fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
wrote:
On 06/30/2011 01:08 PM, Phil wrote: I think this (albeit lightweight)
article on The Register adds some
food for
thought:http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/30/java_misses_the_point_under_o...
I think the
Java is either not enterprise enough for cloud computing apparently
lacking the required widgets or it's too enterprisey and therefore not
cool enough to join the likes of Ruby and Python.
You're missing an important point however. The philosophy of Java has
always been, and still is, one
Neither do I take the James Gosling comment as gospel. After all, by itself
it is just a statement about one person's current point of view. A bit like
me saying I've really gone off my Ford Focus. It might be true for him, it
doesn't mean it applies to everybody. My neighbour loves her new
On 30 June 2011 14:30, Casper Bang casper.b...@gmail.com wrote:
Java is either not enterprise enough for cloud computing apparently
lacking the required widgets or it's too enterprisey and therefore not
cool enough to join the likes of Ruby and Python.
You're missing an important point
Isn't it slightly underhanded to conflate JNI with GUI design? After all,
it's only swing that actively tries to avoid any native functionality.
That's an analogy made by you though. The philosophy is apparent
throughout the Java language itself, Swing is after all just a
library. My frame of
Can you mix languages within a single .NET assembly?
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Casper Bang casper.b...@gmail.com wrote:
Isn't it slightly underhanded to conflate JNI with GUI design? After all,
it's only swing that actively tries to avoid any native functionality.
That's an analogy
On Jun 30, 4:22 pm, Casper Bang casper.b...@gmail.com wrote:
Isn't it slightly underhanded to conflate JNI with GUI design? After all,
it's only swing that actively tries to avoid any native functionality.
That's an analogy made by you though. The philosophy is apparent
throughout the Java
Officially no, you are expected to link into separate assemblies. But
supposedly ILMerge (Microsoft official) or Cecil (open source) will
help out if you desire one single assembly.
On Jun 30, 4:27 pm, Ricky Clarkson ricky.clark...@gmail.com wrote:
Can you mix languages within a single .NET
If you read the complete story , he also said
Java happens to be a really good language for a broad spectrum of
topics.
- and the focus to be on the VM -
Though James Gosling may be harbouring his secret soft corners for the
language,
why should he care when he has very little or no say all
On Jun 30, 8:30 am, Casper Bang casper.b...@gmail.com wrote:
First, you suggest that Java is only hanging on due to lock-in and
that it lacks genuine developer interest. You could similarly say that
developers use the HTTP protocol because of lock-in rather than
being genuinely passionate about
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