[jdev] https://github.com/stpeter/manifesto and additional ideas

2013-11-14 Thread Ralf Skyper Kaiser
Hi, Ideas, comments and an open discussion are welcome to include the following ideas in the manifesto. - Client-support for certificate pinning (including pinning of self-signed certificates). https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Certificate_and_Public_Key_Pinning

Re: [jdev] https://github.com/stpeter/manifesto and additional ideas

2013-11-14 Thread Ralf Skyper Kaiser
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Dave Cridland d...@cridland.net wrote: On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Ralf Skyper Kaiser sky...@thc.orgwrote: Hi, Ideas, comments and an open discussion are welcome to include the following ideas in the manifesto. - Client-support for certificate

Re: [jdev] https://github.com/stpeter/manifesto and additional ideas

2013-11-14 Thread Ralf Skyper Kaiser
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Matt Miller linuxw...@outer-planes.netwrote: On Nov 14, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Ralf Skyper Kaiser sky...@thc.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Dave Cridland d...@cridland.net wrote: On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Matt Miller linuxw...@outer

Re: [jdev] https://github.com/stpeter/manifesto and additional ideas

2013-11-14 Thread Ralf Skyper Kaiser
...@cridland.net wrote: On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Ralf Skyper Kaiser sky...@thc.orgwrote: Pinning does not require a CA at all (private or public). Why use a feature (DANE) that requires a CA if it is possible to have the same level of security with Pinning; which requires no CA, works

Re: [jdev] manifesto DANE does not cut it

2013-11-15 Thread Ralf Skyper Kaiser
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Matt Miller linuxw...@outer-planes.netwrote: On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:43 AM, Ralf Skyper Kaiser sky...@thc.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Matt Miller linuxw...@outer-planes.net wrote: On Nov 14, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Ralf Skyper Kaiser sky

Re: [jdev] https://github.com/stpeter/manifesto and additional ideas

2013-11-15 Thread Ralf Skyper Kaiser
no longer depends on a ROOT MASTER KEY. You mentioned two problems with pinning: On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Winfried Tilanus winfr...@tilanus.comwrote: On 14-11-13 18:47, Ralf Skyper Kaiser wrote: Then to the certificate pinning: It has two problems: - It is not very user friendly

Re: [jdev] https://github.com/stpeter/manifesto and additional ideas

2013-11-15 Thread Ralf Skyper Kaiser
Hi On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Winfried Tilanus winfr...@tilanus.comwrote: On 14-11-13 18:47, Ralf Skyper Kaiser wrote: Hi, d. How is the jabber server admin in control when everyone has to trust the master root key and all subsequent keys up to the sub domain of the jabber

Re: [jdev] manifesto DANE does not cut it

2013-11-15 Thread Ralf Skyper Kaiser
technical. On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Dave Cridland d...@cridland.net wrote: On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Ralf Skyper Kaiser sky...@thc.orgwrote: No. The user has to trust ALL keys and not just the single ROOT KEY. The user has to trust: 1. The key was generated securely (enough bits

Re: [jdev] manifesto DANE does not cut it

2013-11-19 Thread Ralf Skyper Kaiser
DNSSEC and pinning does. And in fact pinning alone I've drawn up example scenarios over and over. On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Tony Finch d...@dotat.at wrote: Ralf Skyper Kaiser sky...@thc.org wrote: The user has to trust ALL keys and not just the single ROOT KEY. That's true

Re: [jdev] manifesto DANE does not cut it

2013-11-19 Thread Ralf Skyper Kaiser
cert-pinning in your manifesto. regards, Ralf On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Tony Finch d...@dotat.at wrote: Ralf Skyper Kaiser sky...@thc.org wrote: The user has to trust ALL keys and not just the single ROOT KEY. That's true, but the amount of trust you have to put in high-level

Re: [jdev] manifesto DANE does not cut it

2013-11-19 Thread Ralf Skyper Kaiser
Hi On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Ashley Ward ashley.w...@surevine.comwrote: On 19 Nov 2013, at 11:58, Ralf Skyper Kaiser sky...@thc.org wrote: This attack and vulnerability in the TLS authentication has been recognized by all major browser manufactures. Pinning (on top of DNSSEC

Re: [jdev] manifesto DANE does not cut it

2013-11-19 Thread Ralf Skyper Kaiser
Hi, On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:29 PM, Thijs Alkemade th...@xnyhps.nl wrote: On 19 nov. 2013, at 12:58, Ralf Skyper Kaiser sky...@thc.org wrote: Hi On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Simon Tennant si...@buddycloud.com wrote: Automatic key pinning works for SSH, because private keys

Re: [jdev] manifesto DANE does not cut it

2013-11-19 Thread Ralf Skyper Kaiser
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Ashley Ward ashley.w...@surevine.comwrote: On 19 Nov 2013, at 12:30, Ralf Skyper Kaiser sky...@thc.org wrote: Pinning does not require any protocol change in its simplest form. It can be done with just minor changes on the client side. Agreed - in its