[kbuild-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] Kconfig: rename ---help--- to help in Kconfig files (first part) (fwd)
On 5/31/05, Roman Zippel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On Tue, 31 May 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote: there's still the point that it's currently used inconsistently. Why is it so important to fix this inconsistency? Why is it so difficult to accept that both are valid options? Let's just let this patch die quietly, ok? It's not important, I just made it one late evening and submitted it in case it was wanted. It was not wanted so it should just die. No difficulty accepting that. -- Jesper Juhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by Yahoo. Introducing Yahoo! Search Developer Network - Create apps using Yahoo! Search APIs Find out how you can build Yahoo! directly into your own Applications - visit http://developer.yahoo.net/?fr=offad-ysdn-ostg-q22005 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] Kconfig: rename ---help--- to help in Kconfig files (first part) (fwd)
On Tue, 31 May 2005 19:28:59 +0200 Jesper Juhl wrote: | On 5/31/05, Roman Zippel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Hi, | | On Tue, 31 May 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote: | | there's still the point that it's currently used inconsistently. | | Why is it so important to fix this inconsistency? | Why is it so difficult to accept that both are valid options? | | | Let's just let this patch die quietly, ok? | | It's not important, I just made it one late evening and submitted it | in case it was wanted. It was not wanted so it should just die. No | difficulty accepting that. I second that. Thanks. --- ~Randy --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by Yahoo. Introducing Yahoo! Search Developer Network - Create apps using Yahoo! Search APIs Find out how you can build Yahoo! directly into your own Applications - visit http://developer.yahoo.net/?fr=offad-ysdn-ostg-q22005 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] Kconfig: rename ---help--- to help in Kconfig files (first part) (fwd)
Hi, On Tue, 31 May 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote: there's still the point that it's currently used inconsistently. Why is it so important to fix this inconsistency? Why is it so difficult to accept that both are valid options? bye, Roman --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by Yahoo. Introducing Yahoo! Search Developer Network - Create apps using Yahoo! Search APIs Find out how you can build Yahoo! directly into your own Applications - visit http://developer.yahoo.net/?fr=offad-ysdn-ostg-q22005 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] Kconfig: rename ---help--- to help in Kconfig files (first part) (fwd)
Hi, On Tue, 31 May 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote: The main reason for this patch (quoting Jesper) is: Consistency. out of ~4000 help entries in 134 Kconfig files, 747 of those entries use ---help--- as the keyword, the rest use just help. So the users of ---help--- are clearly a minority and by renaming them we make things consistent. - I hate inconsistency. :-) And I still don't like this change... bye, Roman --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by Yahoo. Introducing Yahoo! Search Developer Network - Create apps using Yahoo! Search APIs Find out how you can build Yahoo! directly into your own Applications - visit http://developer.yahoo.net/?fr=offad-ysdn-ostg-q22005 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] Kconfig: rename ---help--- to help in Kconfig files (first part) (fwd)
On Tue, May 31, 2005 at 02:17:50AM +0200, Roman Zippel wrote: Hi, Hi Roman, On Tue, 31 May 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote: The main reason for this patch (quoting Jesper) is: Consistency. out of ~4000 help entries in 134 Kconfig files, 747 of those entries use ---help--- as the keyword, the rest use just help. So the users of ---help--- are clearly a minority and by renaming them we make things consistent. - I hate inconsistency. :-) And I still don't like this change... there's still the point that it's currently used inconsistently. If you really prefer ---help--- over help (I consider help being better, but as long as it's used consistently each of them is acceptable), feel free to send a patch instead that changes all occurences of help to ---help---. bye, Roman cu Adrian -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by Yahoo. Introducing Yahoo! Search Developer Network - Create apps using Yahoo! Search APIs Find out how you can build Yahoo! directly into your own Applications - visit http://developer.yahoo.net/?fr=offad-ysdn-ostg-q22005 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
Re: [kbuild-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] Kconfig: rename ---help--- to help in Kconfig files (first part)
On Tue, 3 May 2005, Bodo Eggert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Roman Zippel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 3 May 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote: IMHO, Kconfig files are quite readable due to this indentation even though only a minority of the entries was using ---help--- even before this patch. So why exactly has to be removed? Is it ugly? IMO yes, it's less readable for me than help. ¢¢ the main problem with having two alternatives for the same thing (in *any* context) is that it gives beginners a distorted sense of what is acceptable usage. if you accept both help and ---help---, then you just *know* that a beginner will notice that and start thinking, hmmm ... well, if both of those are alright, maybe --help-- or -help- is alright, too. and maybe it's just the leading hyphens that really count, not the trailing hyphens. and maybe ... kbuild is already over-convoluted as it is. please don't give folks even more redundant ways to do exactly the same thing. rday
[kbuild-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] Kconfig: rename ---help--- to help in Kconfig files (first part)
On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 03:47:46PM +0200, Roman Zippel wrote: Hi, Hi Roman, On Tue, 3 May 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote: So why exactly has to be removed? Is it ugly? Does it make Kconfig worse? The ugly thing is that there are currently two different ways to express the same thing. It only causes confusion for people who think those different syntaxes had a different meaning. Languages often have more than one way to express something, this is not different. Early on there was some confusion about this from people writing new Kconfig entries (not just reading existing ones), but this was became a non-issue since it's documented now. ... Different ways for expressing the same thing is good for writers but bad for readers. E.g. where to place opening braces in C is a religious issue. For the Linux kernel, CodingStyle sets the rules. And although I'd prefer to set them different, I have to admit that the consistency indide the kernel makes reading easier. bye, Roman cu Adrian -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: NEC IT Guy Games. Get your fingers limbered up and give it your best shot. 4 great events, 4 opportunities to win big! Highest score wins.NEC IT Guy Games. Play to win an NEC 61 plasma display. Visit http://www.necitguy.com/?r=20 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] Kconfig: rename ---help--- to help in Kconfig files (first part)
Hi, On Tue, 3 May 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote: This patch is the majority of a patch by Jesper Juhl. This patch renames all instances of ---help--- to simply help in all of the Kconfig files. The main reason for this patch (quoting Jesper) is: Consistency. out of ~4000 help entries in 134 Kconfig files, 747 of those entries use ---help--- as the keyword, the rest use just help. So the users of ---help--- are clearly a minority and by renaming them we make things consistent. - I hate inconsistency. :-) This has nothing to do with consistency but with readability. This was introduced to better separate the help in large menu entries. In order to accept this patch, I would either like hear reasons, why this isn't needed anymore or I'd like to see an alternative, more consistent separator. bye, Roman --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: NEC IT Guy Games. Get your fingers limbered up and give it your best shot. 4 great events, 4 opportunities to win big! Highest score wins.NEC IT Guy Games. Play to win an NEC 61 plasma display. Visit http://www.necitguy.com/?r=20 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] Kconfig: rename ---help--- to help in Kconfig files (first part)
Hi, On Tue, 3 May 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote: The separator used for the help is to indent help texts by two additional spaces. Yes, that's an additional indicator. IMHO, Kconfig files are quite readable due to this indentation even though only a minority of the entries was using ---help--- even before this patch. So why exactly has to be removed? Is it ugly? Does it make Kconfig worse? Sorry, but only because it's not used that often, is not enough of a reason for me to remove it. If it helps only a little bit to spot the help text start easier, it's IMO worth to keep it. bye, Roman --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: NEC IT Guy Games. Get your fingers limbered up and give it your best shot. 4 great events, 4 opportunities to win big! Highest score wins.NEC IT Guy Games. Play to win an NEC 61 plasma display. Visit http://www.necitguy.com/?r=20 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] Kconfig: rename ---help--- to help in Kconfig files (first part)
Hi, On Tue, 3 May 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote: So why exactly has to be removed? Is it ugly? Does it make Kconfig worse? The ugly thing is that there are currently two different ways to express the same thing. It only causes confusion for people who think those different syntaxes had a different meaning. Languages often have more than one way to express something, this is not different. Early on there was some confusion about this from people writing new Kconfig entries (not just reading existing ones), but this was became a non-issue since it's documented now. Sorry, but only because it's not used that often, is not enough of a reason for me to remove it. If it helps only a little bit to spot the help text start easier, it's IMO worth to keep it. Do you or does anyone else have a problem with spotting the help text start with only two additional spaces indentation? It is easier to spot! Is it a big help? I don't know, but I don't see any improvement in removing them. Personally I'd rather leave it to the maintainers of these entries, if they don't like it, they can remove it. If this feature is one day not used anymore, I'll remove it. If it's only for Aunt Tillie it's not required. Please stop this. There is no point in arguing whether this is good or bad for Aunt Tillie. bye, Roman --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: NEC IT Guy Games. Get your fingers limbered up and give it your best shot. 4 great events, 4 opportunities to win big! Highest score wins.NEC IT Guy Games. Play to win an NEC 61 plasma display. Visit http://www.necitguy.com/?r=20 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] Kconfig: rename ---help--- to help in Kconfig files (first part)
On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 11:10:48AM +0200, Roman Zippel wrote: Hi, On Tue, 3 May 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote: This patch is the majority of a patch by Jesper Juhl. This patch renames all instances of ---help--- to simply help in all of the Kconfig files. The main reason for this patch (quoting Jesper) is: Consistency. out of ~4000 help entries in 134 Kconfig files, 747 of those entries use ---help--- as the keyword, the rest use just help. So the users of ---help--- are clearly a minority and by renaming them we make things consistent. - I hate inconsistency. :-) This has nothing to do with consistency but with readability. This was introduced to better separate the help in large menu entries. In order to accept this patch, I would either like hear reasons, why this isn't needed anymore or I'd like to see an alternative, more consistent separator. The separator used for the help is to indent help texts by two additional spaces. IMHO, Kconfig files are quite readable due to this indentation even though only a minority of the entries was using ---help--- even before this patch. bye, Roman cu Adrian -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: NEC IT Guy Games. Get your fingers limbered up and give it your best shot. 4 great events, 4 opportunities to win big! Highest score wins.NEC IT Guy Games. Play to win an NEC 61 plasma display. Visit http://www.necitguy.com/?r=20 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] Kconfig: rename ---help--- to help in Kconfig files (first part)
On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 12:09:37PM +0200, Roman Zippel wrote: Hi, On Tue, 3 May 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote: The separator used for the help is to indent help texts by two additional spaces. Yes, that's an additional indicator. IMHO, Kconfig files are quite readable due to this indentation even though only a minority of the entries was using ---help--- even before this patch. So why exactly has to be removed? Is it ugly? Does it make Kconfig worse? The ugly thing is that there are currently two different ways to express the same thing. It only causes confusion for people who think those different syntaxes had a different meaning. Sorry, but only because it's not used that often, is not enough of a reason for me to remove it. If it helps only a little bit to spot the help text start easier, it's IMO worth to keep it. Do you or does anyone else have a problem with spotting the help text start with only two additional spaces indentation? If it's only for Aunt Tillie it's not required. bye, Roman cu Adrian -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: NEC IT Guy Games. Get your fingers limbered up and give it your best shot. 4 great events, 4 opportunities to win big! Highest score wins.NEC IT Guy Games. Play to win an NEC 61 plasma display. Visit http://www.necitguy.com/?r=20 ___ kbuild-devel mailing list kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
[kbuild-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] Kconfig: rename ---help--- to help in Kconfig files (first part)
Roman Zippel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 3 May 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote: IMHO, Kconfig files are quite readable due to this indentation even though only a minority of the entries was using ---help--- even before this patch. So why exactly has to be removed? Is it ugly? IMO yes, it's less readable for me than help. ¢¢ -- Fun things to slip into your budget TRUE: $3000 for light bulb rotation --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: NEC IT Guy Games. Get your fingers limbered up and give it your best shot. 4 great events, 4 opportunities to win big! Highest score wins.NEC IT Guy Games. Play to win an NEC 61 plasma display. Visit http://www.necitguy.com/?r ___ kbuild-devel mailing list kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kbuild-devel
