Re: [Lazarus] [fpc-devel] Unicode RTL
Sergey Bodrov via lazarus schrieb am Fr., 28. Juli 2023, 18:52: > And UnicodeString is just alias for WideString > On Windows UnicodeString is *not* an alias to WideString. There they are two completely different types that happen to both handle string with a element width of 2 and UTF-16 encoding. Regards, Sven > -- ___ lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [fpc-devel] Unicode RTL
On Fri, 28 Jul 2023, Sergey Bodrov wrote: So far, nothing catchy has been offered. WideChar RTL Note, that WinAPI says: * A Windows code page version with the letter "A" used to indicate "ANSI" * A Unicode version with the letter "W" used to indicate "wide". so, it perfectly matches AnsiString and WideString. And UnicodeString is just alias for WideString Also, what about "Delphi RTL"? Especially for Delphi compatibility. No, we discussed this in the core team, we don't want a reference to Delphi. Michael. -- ___ lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [fpc-devel] Unicode RTL
I like WideChar RTL over Unicode RTL!!-- ___ lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [fpc-devel] Unicode RTL
On 28.07.23 16:35, Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus wrote: [...] Naming something Unicode without adding any new Unicode feature can hardly be called consistent. As I wrote, the "Unicode" refers to String = UnicodeString. In that sense it is 'consistent with existent terminology' Yes, but you didn't name it "UnicodeString RTL", you named it "Unicode RTL". You can't blame CodeGear for that choice. The new RTL has dotted units, so "Namespaced RTL" or "Dotted RTL" would fit too - also no catchy. So far, nothing catchy has been offered. If you want something catchy, don't use a descriptive name. Since the cheetah is a dotted (spotted) animal and it is the fpc mascot, maybe Cheetah RTL? Mattias -- ___ lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [fpc-devel] Unicode RTL
El 28/7/23 a les 16:35, Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus ha escrit: But if all these terribly unhappy and depressed users have a better name, I'm all ears. So far, nothing catchy has been offered. What about "Futura RTL"? Short, catchy and...completely meaningless in this context :-D Great song, though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXjE4q3Hyd4 Bye -- Luca Olivetti Wetron Automation Technology https://wetron.es/ Tel. +34 93 5883004 (Ext.3010) Fax +34 93 5883007 -- ___ lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [fpc-devel] Unicode RTL
On Fri, 28 Jul 2023, Mattias Gaertner via lazarus wrote: On 28.07.23 13:42, Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus wrote: On Fri, 28 Jul 2023, Alexey Torgashin via lazarus wrote: Objection duly noted. Yes, 'Unicode RTL' sounds very bad. Before it was Unicode too. So, "UTF16 RTL", "WideChar RTL" or so. The "Unicode" refers to String = UnicodeString. The latter has been in use for what, 15-20 years ? ...wrong for 20 years. The name is chosen to remain consistent with existing terminology. It seems, it was chosen because it is easier to pronounce than UTF16 RTL. No, see below (or above). Naming something Unicode without adding any new Unicode feature can hardly be called consistent. As I wrote, the "Unicode" refers to String = UnicodeString. In that sense it is 'consistent with existent terminology' That the original terminology "unicodestring" is badly chosen, see first line in the feature list: https://delphi.embarcadero.com/project/delphi-2009/ So complaints to CodeGear, please. But if all these terribly unhappy and depressed users have a better name, I'm all ears. So far, nothing catchy has been offered. We'll attribute this lack of creativity to the state of depression due to having to use such awful and horrifying terminology for ~15 years ;-) Michael. -- ___ lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [fpc-devel] Unicode RTL
On 28.07.23 13:42, Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus wrote: On Fri, 28 Jul 2023, Alexey Torgashin via lazarus wrote: Objection duly noted. Yes, 'Unicode RTL' sounds very bad. Before it was Unicode too. So, "UTF16 RTL", "WideChar RTL" or so. The "Unicode" refers to String = UnicodeString. The latter has been in use for what, 15-20 years ? ...wrong for 20 years. The name is chosen to remain consistent with existing terminology. It seems, it was chosen because it is easier to pronounce than UTF16 RTL. Naming something Unicode without adding any new Unicode feature can hardly be called consistent. Assuming you guys are consistent, I guess you people are also not comfortable with the term 'UnicodeString' ? Of course not. Working with FPC must be a really annoying experience then... ;) Mattias -- ___ lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [fpc-devel] Unicode RTL
On Fri, 28 Jul 2023, Alexey Torgashin via lazarus wrote: Objection duly noted. Yes, 'Unicode RTL' sounds very bad. Before it was Unicode too. So, "UTF16 RTL", "WideChar RTL" or so. The "Unicode" refers to String = UnicodeString. The latter has been in use for what, 15-20 years ? The name is chosen to remain consistent with existing terminology. Assuming you guys are consistent, I guess you people are also not comfortable with the term 'UnicodeString' ? Working with FPC must be a really annoying experience then... Michael. -- ___ lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [fpc-devel] Unicode RTL
Objection duly noted. Yes, 'Unicode RTL' sounds very bad. Before it was Unicode too. So, "UTF16 RTL", "WideChar RTL" or so. Alex -- ___ lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [fpc-devel] Unicode RTL
On Fri, 28 Jul 2023, Adriaan van Os via fpc-devel wrote: Michael Van Canneyt via fpc-devel wrote: Hello, I have just completed phase one of the "Unicode RTL" effort. I object to the name "Unicode" RTL. Where people talk about what they call "Unicode" they usually mean UCS-16 or UTF-16 or UTF-16-mishandled-as-UCS16. Objection duly noted. Michael. -- ___ lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [fpc-devel] Unicode RTL
On Tue, 25 Jul 2023, Luca Olivetti via lazarus wrote: El 24/7/23 a les 23:20, Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus ha escrit: To this end, it would be helpful to add a paragraph on the wiki page underlining how to retain the single-byte RTL; or, if no user action is necessary, mention that, to set minds at ease. Thank you for this hard work! No user action is necessary. But your advice is good: I have added this to the page, and made clear that the RTL as it currently exists, is still the default RTL. So those of us that don't need delphi compatibility can be sure that nothing will break? Unless I unwittingly introduced a bug somewhere (gods forbid ;)), nothing will break. Backwards compatibility is and remains important. Michael. -- ___ lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [fpc-devel] Unicode RTL
El 24/7/23 a les 23:20, Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus ha escrit: To this end, it would be helpful to add a paragraph on the wiki page underlining how to retain the single-byte RTL; or, if no user action is necessary, mention that, to set minds at ease. Thank you for this hard work! No user action is necessary. But your advice is good: I have added this to the page, and made clear that the RTL as it currently exists, is still the default RTL. So those of us that don't need delphi compatibility can be sure that nothing will break? Bye -- Luca Olivetti Wetron Automation Technology https://wetron.es/ Tel. +34 93 5883004 (Ext.3010) Fax +34 93 5883007 -- ___ lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [fpc-devel] Unicode RTL
On Mon, 24 Jul 2023, Kirinn via fpc-devel wrote: Hi, A "unicode" RTL is of course great for targeting legacy Windows platforms, but for those of us on Linux, UTF-8 is the way. It is not only for legacy windows platforms. The target platform is secondary. What to use depends more on your codebase than on your target platform. There is a lot of Delphi code out there that assumes that string=unicodestring. If, like my current company, you have a large Delphi application that you wish to run on linux, then you may be better off with a unicode RTL. To this end, it would be helpful to add a paragraph on the wiki page underlining how to retain the single-byte RTL; or, if no user action is necessary, mention that, to set minds at ease. Thank you for this hard work! No user action is necessary. But your advice is good: I have added this to the page, and made clear that the RTL as it currently exists, is still the default RTL. Michael. -- ___ lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
