Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents (was: Best license for future tiles?)

2010-11-23 Thread Ed Avis
Grant Slater openstreet...@... writes: The relationship between ODbL and DbCL is not very clear and I'm not convinced that lawyers really understand the distinction between a database and it's content. Database definition as per the ODbL (definition modelled on EU Database Directive 96/9/EC):

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-23 Thread 80n
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: Rob Myers r...@... writes: I work with databases every day and I don't understand how the 'database' versus 'contents' distinction is meant to apply to maps and to OSM in particular. Imagine a database of names, song

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-23 Thread Emilie Laffray
On 23 November 2010 11:33, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: Indeed, using something that is so novel and untested as ODbL to license OSM's work is foolish. Especially given that copyright as applied to maps is well established and have been in use for a couple of hundred years. Dear Etienne,

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-23 Thread Ed Avis
Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@... writes: Amusingly enough, I don't know of any map providers using copyrights to protect their data. All map providers use copyright to protect their data. Look at any map online or offline and you will see a copyright notice, for example Map data (c) 2010

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-23 Thread Grant Slater
On 23 November 2010 13:04, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: As always, the standard reality check applies: if you believe that maps or the data they represent are not covered by copyright, please start large-scale photocopying of some commercial maps, or copying the information from them

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-23 Thread Grant Slater
On 23 November 2010 13:23, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: On 23 November 2010 13:04, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: As always, the standard reality check applies: if you believe that maps or the data they represent are not covered by copyright, please start large-scale

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-23 Thread Emilie Laffray
On 23 November 2010 13:04, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: As always, the standard reality check applies: if you believe that maps or the data they represent are not covered by copyright, please start large-scale photocopying of some commercial maps, or copying the information from them

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-23 Thread Francis Davey
On 23 November 2010 12:46, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] If I remember correctly, UK have recently excluded databases from copyright protection since 1997 due to the introduction of the European database law ( http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/UK_Database_Law for more

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-23 Thread Grant Slater
On 23 November 2010 14:14, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: Here is some data: node id=915100779 lat=51.5798222 lon=-0.3341762 version=2 changeset=6058195 user=Walter Schlögl uid=78656 visible=true timestamp=2010-10-16T14:40:13Z tag k=name v=McDonald's/ tag k=amenity v=fast_food/ tag

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-23 Thread Ed Avis
Francis Davey fjm...@... writes: If I remember correctly, UK have recently excluded databases from copyright protection since 1997 Not quite. A database may attract either database right, copyright or both. The change to database copyright (as opposed to database right) is that copyright in a

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-23 Thread Ed Avis
Grant Slater openstreet...@... writes: A database may attract either database right, copyright or both. The change to database copyright (as opposed to database right) is that copyright in a database has a harmonised subsistence threshold across Europe (own intellectual creation). Does this

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-23 Thread Grant Slater
On 23 November 2010 14:57, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: No copyright and database-right are not universal the world over, Yes - it's my understanding that the sui generis database right exists only in Europe - is that so? What difference does it make? It does not effect ODbL and that is

[OSM-legal-talk] Regarding future Contributor Terms upgrades

2010-11-23 Thread Mike Collinson
The License Working Group had a request from a contributor to make a statement to the effect that users who sign up to v1.0 of the Contributor Terms will be allowed to upgrade to future versions. I am now happy to provide such a formal statement: All the rights granted in the new proposed

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-23 Thread Francis Davey
On 23 November 2010 15:22, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: On 23 November 2010 14:57, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: No copyright and database-right are not universal the world over, Yes - it's my understanding that the sui generis database right exists only in Europe -

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-23 Thread Ed Avis
Francis Davey fjm...@... writes: To answer some of the questions raised by my comment (and not just this one). The sui generis database right exists only in the EU and the EEA. All countries with the sui generis database right have harmonised the threshold for database copyright as I have

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-23 Thread Francis Davey
On 23 November 2010 19:50, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: To be precise a database right is earned when there is a substantial investment in obtaining, verifying or presenting the contents of the Yes. I was deliberately avoiding side-tracking the discussion onto the nature of the investment - I'm