Re: Alternative master/main branch proposal (Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations))
On 21/03/2021 10:46, Katarina Behrens wrote: C'mon folks, this is not a controversial or complicated issue in any way If it isn't controversial, why is it causing so much controversy? Technical effort to make the change is minimal. Social or indeed human impact of the change is net positive. That few folks who happen to have the largest bullhorn believe otherwise doesn't change the fact 'Where is my freedom to use whatever terminology I please regardless of how it affects others' is a bad take I *personally* have *suffered* from exactly this attitude! When Groklaw was live, I was unable to take part in any discussion that involved race, because the word "Black" was unacceptable to PJ, and the alternative would be offensive to the black people I know because (a) they are not American, and (b) they do not classify themselves as black - they are Nigerian, or Caribbean, or whatever. If you take it upon yourself to remove words from my vocabulary, you are gagging me, especially if you dictate there is no reasonable alternative. Oh - and by damaging the ability to discuss what is wrong, you make it harder to put it right! 'Let's wait for some random gits to come to their senses and only then follow the suit' is a bad take Just go ahead and rename, for f sake Just for the record - I was in full agreement with the Groklaw rule of "PJ's website, PJ's rules". And with regard to this renaming, I have no strong feelings either way. But I *do* have a *massive* problem with people bulldozing their opinions over other peoples' serious concerns - and yes I *am* concerned where all this "form over substance" political correctness is headed ... Cheers, Wol ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
On 18/03/2021 17:35, Michael Meeks wrote: I do agree it is possible to carry this far too far. However its easy to see how things like the unthinking use of eg. 'blacklist' can be seen as bad - that seems like a slam-dunk to me. The problem is when it's assumed you're being racist when the words have nothing whatsoever to do with race - blacklist is a case in point. Or - as you may be aware of - the argument we've had about pubs called "The Black Boy". There's an Oxfordshire pub where the sign is a Cavalier with long black locks - or a Kent pub where the sign is a grimy miner. No race connection whatsoever, and in the Oxford case I think it pre-dates the slave trade. The worse example I came across recently was somebody objecting to the word "negro" "because its only possible use is racist" ... hang on a sec - it's pretty much exactly the normal spanish word for "black"! From the Latin word "negro" or whatever it is ... Cheers, Wol ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Alternative master/main branch proposal (Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations))
On Sunday 21 of March 2021, Katarina Behrens wrote: > 'Let's wait for some random gits to come to their senses and only then > follow the suit' is a bad take A bad take is being the person to insult others while arguing for not offending people in a discussion about not offending people. -- Luboš Luňák ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Alternative master/main branch proposal (Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations))
C'mon folks, this is not a controversial or complicated issue in any way Technical effort to make the change is minimal. Social or indeed human impact of the change is net positive. That few folks who happen to have the largest bullhorn believe otherwise doesn't change the fact 'Where is my freedom to use whatever terminology I please regardless of how it affects others' is a bad take 'Let's wait for some random gits to come to their senses and only then follow the suit' is a bad take Just go ahead and rename, for f sake K. > in order to make the discussion somewhat more constructive, I have an > alternative proposal on how to resolve the problem. > > Some pre-requisities: > > - There are currently no technical gains to be made from the change. There > are some costs to doing the change, but they are not blocking. > > - We appear to be poorly equiped to evaluate the problem properly. Most of > us are not even native English speakers, and most of us aren't directly > affected by the problem (or presumably even know somebody who is). I can > count only one direct input from somebody directly affected, while the rest > of us have at best second-hand information (unless I'm missing something). > > - The problem appears to be complicated and, as of now, without general > consensus. The proposal to rename our master mentions [1] that actually only > discusses 'master/slave' and not 'master' alone, and [2] that says GitHub > makes the default configurable and changes it to 'main'. The GitHub page > further links a 9-months-old statement from the git project that said they > had made the default configurable and were discussing further changes. As > of now, the git project still uses master as the default and also for their > own use. There are some projects that have meanwhile switched, and some > that have not. > > - It appears that no matter what we do, we cannot avoid somebody getting > offended. If we don't do the change, we risk offending people, if we do the > change, we also risk offending people (see e.g. [3]). > > - [3] also casts doubt on whether the change actually really achieves > anything or how big the demand for the change actually is, especially from > people that it actually concerns. > > - We are not in any special position here, we are just one of the many > projects using git. Therefore there does not appear to be any need to act on > our own. Presumably the issue gets discussed also elsewhere, and discussing > it here adds little to no value to it. > > - The git project is the source of the git tool, and appears to be a > suitable place to discuss and set the trend here. > > > > Therefore, I propose that the decision to rename the master branch is > postponed for as long as the git project does not take a definitive stance > on it. That stance may take the form of e.g. the git project making a > statement on it or changing their default and using it. Our decision can be > then based on this input and may e.g. take the form of simply taking the > technical decision to do what git does. > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-knodel-terminology-02 > [2] https://github.com/github/renaming > [3] https://mooseyanon.medium.com/github-f-ck-your-name-change-de599033bbbe ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Alternative master/main branch proposal (Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations))
On Thu, 2021-03-18 at 21:04 +0100, Luboš Luňák wrote: > Therefore, I propose that the decision to rename the master branch > is postponed for as long as the git project does not take a > definitive stance on it. That stance may take the form of e.g. the > git project making a statement on it or changing their default and > using it. Our decision can be then based on this input and may e.g. > take the form of simply taking the technical decision to do what git > does. +1 I support this approach too. Kohei ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Alternative master/main branch proposal (Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations))
On 18/03/2021 21.04, Luboš Luňák wrote: - We are not in any special position here, we are just one of the many projects using git. Therefore there does not appear to be any need to act on our own. Presumably the issue gets discussed also elsewhere, and discussing it here adds little to no value to it. - The git project is the source of the git tool, and appears to be a suitable place to discuss and set the trend here. Therefore, I propose that the decision to rename the master branch is postponed for as long as the git project does not take a definitive stance on it. That stance may take the form of e.g. the git project making a statement on it or changing their default and using it. Our decision can be then based on this input and may e.g. take the form of simply taking the technical decision to do what git does. +1 I don't have any hard feelings either way, but following upstream git sounds like a reasonable plan to me, in particular given this matter turned out to be so controversial. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
Am 18.03.21 um 15:55 schrieb Tor Lillqvist: For what it's worth (i.e., not much), I am completely in favour of the renaming. --tml Me, too. Antje ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
TLDR: - There does not appear to be a consensus on the usage of the default brach name, at least as of now. - I find the claim that all use of the word master is bad to be poorly argued. - This mostly appears to be an ongoing internal problem of one country. As a technical project we should not be taking sides in such politics, especially given that the problem does not appear to be resolved or even having a consensus. On Thursday 18 of March 2021, Thorsten Behrens wrote: > Lubos Lunak wrote: > > I disagree with the plan. Git uses master, so we should stick with > > that. > > Hmm. But someone else using outdated names shouldn't per se be a reason > for us? Also it appears things are moving there, too. - The name is not, at least as of now, outdated. As I've already said, the current name is 'master' and I don't see why GitHub or even LLVM should be authorities on that. - Not changing a default in 9 months is not appearing to be moving. I guess that could have been already done if things were simple? I find it a valid technical reason not to do so if they themselves do not do it. - If somebody else (not) doing something shouldn't be a reason for us, then why is it listed as a reason for us to do the change? - There appear to be many other projects that are, at least as of now, not moving. It doesn't look to me that there's a consensus on this. > > And that brings me to the non-technical part of this, because I > > really don't see the reason for this. > > The reason is, that language evolves, and bad habits (or metaphors) of > the past shouldn't be persisted, if we know they are offensive to > others. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/master lists ~20 meanings for the word, and there's only one of them marked outdated, and 5b, which is the one git uses, is not marked as bad, archaic, offensive, or anything like that. Similarly, I can find e.g. pages about getting Master's Degree in 2021 and various other uses of the other meanings for the word, which from here looks like it's fine to use them. On the other hand, the meaning related to slavery seems like a meaning that's obsolete. Now I'm not a native speaker and I don't live in an English-speaking country, so I may be getting something wrong, but then neither do you, so how come you should know this better? (FWIW, I find it offensive to get lectured on English by a German. Just saying. I consider getting occassionally, and often probably unintentionally, getting offended to be simply life.) > Generally, our approach in the community should be - if it doesn't > harm us [1], we should be considerate & welcoming. Then maybe we should consider the possibility that forcing one interpretation and not welcoming any other is not very considerate or welcoming. > The feedback towards using master/slave (and other > established-but-fraught-terms) was that it indeed is taken as offensive for > some people. This is not about master/slave. This is about master (copy of a) branch, which has nothing to do with slavery, and you have provided very poor reasoning for changing anything there, and there's no apparent consensus on any of your claims. If I'm reading the ESC proposal correctly, this is basically a proposal from Germans living in Germany to take a side in cultural/political/language problem of another country. Which just doesn't make sense. If they sort it out, fine (I guess that may take a while, given that from afar it looks that the US currently can't agree on anything right now). But I don't see a good reason why we should take a part in that now. -- Lubos Lunak ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
Michael Meeks-5 wrote > ... > Hopefully you would be able to come ? No need to come since it's easier for me to write (no schedule constraints for example) and the migration will be done anyway, no need to worry. Moreover, even if there was a vote I suppose there'll be a large majority who'll agree with it. Remark: I wouldn't be able to vote anyway since I'm not a TDF member and still would't like to because of these kinds of decisions. My goal was just to thank a lot Luboš and to provide arguments against the migration. Nevertheless, I already knew the battle, battle against this censorship (I weigh my words) was lost. Regards, Julien -- Sent from: http://document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/Dev-f1639786.html ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
Thorsten Behrens-6 wrote > ... > Well. I'm not sure it matters much what you or me read into that word. > > So is there any harm in making that change? Others are doing the work, > why would we refuse a change that some feel strongly about? > > We're happily accepting changes that re-format code, translate, > spell-check it etc - one could argue those are cosmetic too, and not > worth it. > > I'm therefore much in favour of remaining to be welcoming to change, > and positively accept patches from everyone (unless there's hard > technical reasons to decline). Reformating code allows to have homogeneous code and allows to read it more easily. Spellcheck is just about trying to respect languages, if not we could also begin to write like in SMS and it may quickly difficult for non native English speaker to understand it. (I know that sometimes we must decide between US and English spell and it's not that important if everybody understands the meaning of the word). I'm strongly against this change because it's not just cosmetic, it's imposing a point of view (Yes I'm doing the same but it's a debate so of course there are at least 2 points of view), it's kind of new puritanism for me. Until some months ago, nobody found it wrong to call a "branch master", now we must remove it just for some people who may consider this offending. Are there really some stats about this? Would these people feel really bad about seeing "master" branch? Do I really offend some people when in bugtrackers I put: "On pc Debian x86-64 with master sources updated today, " ? Technical reason to decline: a non 0 technical risk for a real 0 technical benefit Again, do you want to rename "Abort", "Command"? Cars (even eletric ones) generate pollution, would you be agree to remove any reference to the word "cars" in LO? (I didn't check if there was, it's just for the example). Are they bad habits and so you would consider a good evolution to replace them too? Julien -- Sent from: http://document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/Dev-f1639786.html ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Alternative master/main branch proposal (Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations))
Hello, in order to make the discussion somewhat more constructive, I have an alternative proposal on how to resolve the problem. Some pre-requisities: - There are currently no technical gains to be made from the change. There are some costs to doing the change, but they are not blocking. - We appear to be poorly equiped to evaluate the problem properly. Most of us are not even native English speakers, and most of us aren't directly affected by the problem (or presumably even know somebody who is). I can count only one direct input from somebody directly affected, while the rest of us have at best second-hand information (unless I'm missing something). - The problem appears to be complicated and, as of now, without general consensus. The proposal to rename our master mentions [1] that actually only discusses 'master/slave' and not 'master' alone, and [2] that says GitHub makes the default configurable and changes it to 'main'. The GitHub page further links a 9-months-old statement from the git project that said they had made the default configurable and were discussing further changes. As of now, the git project still uses master as the default and also for their own use. There are some projects that have meanwhile switched, and some that have not. - It appears that no matter what we do, we cannot avoid somebody getting offended. If we don't do the change, we risk offending people, if we do the change, we also risk offending people (see e.g. [3]). - [3] also casts doubt on whether the change actually really achieves anything or how big the demand for the change actually is, especially from people that it actually concerns. - We are not in any special position here, we are just one of the many projects using git. Therefore there does not appear to be any need to act on our own. Presumably the issue gets discussed also elsewhere, and discussing it here adds little to no value to it. - The git project is the source of the git tool, and appears to be a suitable place to discuss and set the trend here. Therefore, I propose that the decision to rename the master branch is postponed for as long as the git project does not take a definitive stance on it. That stance may take the form of e.g. the git project making a statement on it or changing their default and using it. Our decision can be then based on this input and may e.g. take the form of simply taking the technical decision to do what git does. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-knodel-terminology-02 [2] https://github.com/github/renaming [3] https://mooseyanon.medium.com/github-f-ck-your-name-change-de599033bbbe -- Luboš Luňák ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
Thorsten Behrens-6 wrote > ... > The reason is, that language evolves, and bad habits (or metaphors) of > the past shouldn't be persisted, if we know they are offensive to > others. Slavery itself shouldn't persist (badfully in some regions it still exists) but let's not confound the slavery itself with some words used in different contexts. About "master", the expressions "MC"/"Master of Ceremony" in music, "Master's_degree", "masterplan", "to master something", are bad habits too and should be renamed/rephrased? Should we also remove (burn?) lots of books and republish them after having processed global autocorrection? (I would even replace "autocorrection" by "censorship" here) If you'd ask every people on earch what they may consider offensive, you could remove lots of words. Do you also consider we should rename "abort" (because people against abortion could consider this term offensive) or "command" (because may be related to slavery too) (as already quoted in my previous comment)? Julien -- Sent from: http://document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/Dev-f1639786.html ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
Get woke go broke... No need to push some misguided agenda, and even less need to appeal to some collective guilt, after all slavery wasn't an universal practice. The only way to handle SJWs is to ignore them, after all if you give them an inch they'll take a mile. Be glad the situation is still somewhat bearable in the programming community, you really wouldn't want for it to get as bad as it is in the entertainment industry, the less you let them creep in, the better. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
On 18/03/2021 14:19, julien2412 wrote: > About "master" So - there are huge tracts that can be written about this from many perspectives; Dominus Illuminatio Mea =) The "thin end of the wedge" argument is an interesting one, clearly there is lots of scope for confrontation, division and aggression around this sort of thing and hurt feelings. But I think it is worth looking at this on its own merits. For my part I support the change - assuming some of the more telling objections Lubos pointed out - eg. around the default branch that is checked out when you 'git clone' can be solved elegantly. I thought: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-knodel-terminology-02 Had a mercifully bounded set of words to replace that doesn't look like it will grow indefinitely. > the expressions "MC"/"Master of Ceremony" in music, I do agree it is possible to carry this far too far. However its easy to see how things like the unthinking use of eg. 'blacklist' can be seen as bad - that seems like a slam-dunk to me. Having said all that - I think it's really important that people can have their say, and that people's differing views are respected - and fears of a possible terminological tyranny are laid to rest =) Also, that we treat each other gently. Probably we should discuss it at the next ESC - and encourage those who care about the topic to discuss it there rather than in some straggling list thread (which tends to polarize). Hopefully you would be able to come ? Regards, Michael. -- michael.me...@collabora.com <><, GM Collabora Productivity Hangout: mejme...@gmail.com, Skype: mmeeks (M) +44 7795 666 147 - timezone usually UK / Europe ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
Lubos Lunak-2 wrote > On Wednesday 17 of March 2021, Christian Lohmaier wrote: >> Hi *, >> >> as requested and announced in previous ESC-minutes and infra-call >> minutes, master branch will be renamed for the LibreOffice core >> repositories and the submodules used by LibreOffice (dictionaries, >> help, translations). > (...) > I disagree with the plan. I had told nothing until now thinking I would be the only person to have this opinion. After: 1) http://document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/Tell-me-Easy-Hack-42782-quot-remove-a-dog-quot-is-a-joke-tt3587827.html#a3588273 (Easy Hack 42782 "remove a dog ! ") 2) https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=493ae7a6bb0c3ad50615db0090e7ae8d391bc327 "replace usage of blacklist with denylist" and https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=abb6c01519a0318d7165dc9dc5b7d185353f93d6 "replace usage of whitelist with allowlist" Now we must rename "master". Of course, it's not all 0 risk operation and the technical benefit is 0 + time consuming. (not as if we had lots of human resources on LO and had very few bugtrackers to tackle). Should we expect to replace other things like that? (eg "command" word which could be misinterpreted too) Even if it won't change anything and this migration will be done anyway because marketing and novlang dominate nowadays, THANK YOU A LOT for your message Luboš!!! Julien -- Sent from: http://document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/Dev-f1639786.html ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
Hey Julien, julien2412 wrote: > Thorsten Behrens-6 wrote > > ... > > The reason is, that language evolves, and bad habits (or metaphors) of > > the past shouldn't be persisted, if we know they are offensive to > > others. > > Slavery itself shouldn't persist (badfully in some regions it still exists) > but let's not confound the slavery itself with some words used in different > contexts. > Well. I'm not sure it matters much what you or me read into that word. So is there any harm in making that change? Others are doing the work, why would we refuse a change that some feel strongly about? We're happily accepting changes that re-format code, translate, spell-check it etc - one could argue those are cosmetic too, and not worth it. I'm therefore much in favour of remaining to be welcoming to change, and positively accept patches from everyone (unless there's hard technical reasons to decline). All the best, -- Thorsten signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
For what it's worth (i.e., not much), I am completely in favour of the renaming. --tml ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
Hi Lubos,
just a quick answer - I think topics like this are best discussed in a
call though.
Lubos Lunak wrote:
> I disagree with the plan. Git uses master, so we should stick with
> that.
>
Hmm. But someone else using outdated names shouldn't per se be a reason
for us? Also it appears things are moving there, too.
> And that brings me to the non-technical part of this, because I
> really don't see the reason for this.
>
The reason is, that language evolves, and bad habits (or metaphors) of
the past shouldn't be persisted, if we know they are offensive to
others.
Generally, our approach in the community should be - if it doesn't
harm us [1], we should be considerate & welcoming. The feedback
towards using master/slave (and other established-but-fraught-terms)
was that it indeed is taken as offensive for some people.
> Finally, even if we assume that it would be a good idea to avoid
> the use of the word 'master' altogether because one of the 20
> meanings a dictionary gives is bad, what's the plan for all the
> other 20059 ('git grep -i master | wc -l') other uses in
> LibreOffice?
>
You're right, there's more work to do. But that shouldn't stop this
one bit from going forward.
For parts of what you refer to, see:
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/98617
[1] please do point us to hard technical blockers though, if you're
aware of any
Cheers,
-- Thorsten
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Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
On 17.03.2021 22:45, Lubos Lunak wrote: I disagree with the plan. +1 -- Best regards, Mike Kaganski ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
Am 17. März 2021 20:45:23 MEZ schrieb Lubos Lunak : >On Wednesday 17 of March 2021, Christian Lohmaier wrote: >> as requested and announced in previous ESC-minutes and infra-call >> minutes, master branch will be renamed for the LibreOffice core >> repositories and the submodules used by LibreOffice (dictionaries, >> help, translations). (...) >I disagree with the plan (rant) Amen. I always said so, too. Regards Rene ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
On Wednesday 17 of March 2021, Christian Lohmaier wrote:
> Hi *,
>
> as requested and announced in previous ESC-minutes and infra-call
> minutes, master branch will be renamed for the LibreOffice core
> repositories and the submodules used by LibreOffice (dictionaries,
> help, translations).
>
> Current plan is to do the switchover on April 1st
> If you have objections to this date or the plan laid out below (for
> current changes please see also
> https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/3442 please raise your
> concerns ASAP)
I disagree with the plan. Git uses master, so we should stick with that. And
by 'git uses master' I mean that if you check out the git repo of the git
tool, you'll get the master branch, there's no main branch, and if you build
it and run 'git init', it'll create a master branch. The option for the
default branch name was added 9 months ago, so they have had plenty of time
for switching, and if they haven't, then maybe we shouldn't either. We
already have this running joke of breaking every tooling, and I don't see a
reason why risk it here.
And that brings me to the non-technical part of this, because I really don't
see the reason for this. Is it written down somewhere? I find the ESC minutes
unclear on the motivation. The Redmine motivation link is to some RFC-like
document that talks about "master-slave", but it does not mention "master" on
its own a single time. Even the recommendations there refer
to 'term "master-slave"' and not just "master". The other Redmine ticket
links to GitHub, but why should we care what some other repository provider
does? (I mean, I understand GitHub is based in a country where they currently
have all kinds of problems with this, but do we need to take a part in
that?). And presumably the intention is not being compatible with new
repositories on GitHub, that wouldn't make much sense.
Finally, even if we assume that it would be a good idea to avoid the use of
the word 'master' altogether because one of the 20 meanings a dictionary
gives is bad, what's the plan for all the other 20059 ('git grep -i master |
wc -l') other uses in LibreOffice? We have master passwords, master slides,
master styles and so on, and mind you, that goes as far as changing the ODF
format, is the plan to change all those too? And if not, is there any plan
for when somebody points that out as hypocrisy? And before any of this is
done, shouldn't first be something done about those 487 occurences of the
actually problematic word, which would be way simpler and actually do
something related to the topic?
The way I see it, if this is supposed to fix something, then it actually
doesn't, and it can create technical problems. If it's supposed to do
something else, it's not up to us to solve somebody else's problem, and it
can backfire.
PS: I can't miss the irony of renaming 'master' in 'git', when it's the
latter word that's an actual insult.
--
Lubos Lunak
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Re: ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
Nt L.O. related, but I think it is worth mentioning on this topic:
the Python language is doing this same month over the coming weeks
(i.e. renaming the default git branch to 'main') - the announcement was
made by the steering council last week.
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 at 07:46, Christian Lohmaier <
lohmaier+libreoff...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi *,
>
> as requested and announced in previous ESC-minutes and infra-call
> minutes, master branch will be renamed for the LibreOffice core
> repositories and the submodules used by LibreOffice (dictionaries,
> help, translations).
>
> Current plan is to do the switchover on April 1st
> If you have objections to this date or the plan laid out below (for
> current changes please see also
> https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/3442 please raise your
> concerns ASAP)
>
> What will be done?
> * git branch rename from master → main for LibreOffice-repos only
> (core, dictionaries, help, translations)
> more specifically creation of a new main branch main from master and
> setting the default branch for those repositories to the new name)
> ** pushes (submitting to actual branch) to the master branch will be
> prohibited by the ACL (permissions)
> ** final commit on master branch will be a change to .gitreview to use
> the new name as default and to logerrit using main as target branch if
> the current local branch is master
> ** it will be a hard cut, main will continue where master stopped,
> master won't receive any more commits
> ** open changes for master branch will be moved to the new branch
> using gerrit's "move change" feature (that keeps the current parent,
> so it is not a rebase)
> ** pushing to refs/for/master (i.e. creating new changesets) will be
> allowed for a transition period, but jenkins will immediately ask to
> move the change to the new branch (not done automatically, to make
> people also change their local branch configuration/upstream settings)
> * adjusting of jenkins' gerrit-trigger and tinderboxes to use the new
> branch name
> * adjusting of the bugzilla-status-notification ("fixed in version x")
> bot to use the new branch name
>
>
> What won't be done at that stage:
> * update of all the documentation/wiki pages mentioning master (that's
> a community effort, no deadline, if you stumble upon mentions of
> master poke #infra or change in wiki yourself :-))
> * renaming of auxiliary repositories (like the intermediate repository
> used for weblate). Projects will be renamed, but weblate itself will
> still use "master" branch in the underlying repo, any change there
> will be postponed until 7.2 projects will be created)
> * dashboard will not have any custom migration, instead repository
> data will be rebuilt/reimported from scratch
>
> ciao
> Christian
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ANN: renaming of master branch to "main" for core repository and submodules (dictionaries, help, translations)
Hi *,
as requested and announced in previous ESC-minutes and infra-call
minutes, master branch will be renamed for the LibreOffice core
repositories and the submodules used by LibreOffice (dictionaries,
help, translations).
Current plan is to do the switchover on April 1st
If you have objections to this date or the plan laid out below (for
current changes please see also
https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/3442 please raise your
concerns ASAP)
What will be done?
* git branch rename from master → main for LibreOffice-repos only
(core, dictionaries, help, translations)
more specifically creation of a new main branch main from master and
setting the default branch for those repositories to the new name)
** pushes (submitting to actual branch) to the master branch will be
prohibited by the ACL (permissions)
** final commit on master branch will be a change to .gitreview to use
the new name as default and to logerrit using main as target branch if
the current local branch is master
** it will be a hard cut, main will continue where master stopped,
master won't receive any more commits
** open changes for master branch will be moved to the new branch
using gerrit's "move change" feature (that keeps the current parent,
so it is not a rebase)
** pushing to refs/for/master (i.e. creating new changesets) will be
allowed for a transition period, but jenkins will immediately ask to
move the change to the new branch (not done automatically, to make
people also change their local branch configuration/upstream settings)
* adjusting of jenkins' gerrit-trigger and tinderboxes to use the new
branch name
* adjusting of the bugzilla-status-notification ("fixed in version x")
bot to use the new branch name
What won't be done at that stage:
* update of all the documentation/wiki pages mentioning master (that's
a community effort, no deadline, if you stumble upon mentions of
master poke #infra or change in wiki yourself :-))
* renaming of auxiliary repositories (like the intermediate repository
used for weblate). Projects will be renamed, but weblate itself will
still use "master" branch in the underlying repo, any change there
will be postponed until 7.2 projects will be created)
* dashboard will not have any custom migration, instead repository
data will be rebuilt/reimported from scratch
ciao
Christian
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