Re: [WSG] one more quick question....
On 7/30/06, Jason Witherspoon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's considered the most standards-acceptable method for having jpegs switch out? To clarify: we want several album covers on the front page which will hold for x seconds, then switch to a different album cover, etc., on down through a list of album cover images. I'm guessing php, but I keep be surprised by what css can do on its own, I really don't know squat about the DOM at this point CSS can't do that - you would need to use Javascript. Google for something like javascript slideshow. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] one more quick question....
On one of my websites (http://www.germworks.net/afl) I have used a _javascript_ image slideshow.On 7/31/06, Matthew Pennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/30/06, Jason Witherspoon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's considered the most standards-acceptable method for having jpegs switch out?To clarify: we want several album covers on the front page which will hold for x seconds, then switch to a different album cover, etc., on down through a list of album cover images. I'm guessing php, but I keep be surprised by what css can do on its own, I really don't know squat about the DOM at this pointCSS can't do that - you would need to use _javascript_. Google forsomething like _javascript_ slideshow.** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**-- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] Standards Table Layout
pdr Lists wrote: We can blame that sell web design software for the public misconception that building a valuable web site/blog/presence/application/anything is easy and inexpensive. After all, people will be more likely to buy a copy ... As a result, many people believe that what we do is easy, ( isnt it just like writing a Word document? ), does not require any knowledge other than how to run a program, and worse yet, they believe they are also experts in the field because they use the web. Tell me about it. A few years ago I was designing and implementing a workflow system: it allowed the department to define workflows (including points at which emails were automagically sent requesting authorisation from managers), provided complete traceability of all processes, and generated reports on utilisation of resources (== people). It had a SQL Server back end, ASP middleware and an Ajax UI (although we didn't know it was called Ajax then). Three months in, the department head went on a 2 day course in DreamWeaver, and on her return wanted to know why it had taken me so long when it was only a few pages. Shortly after they didn't renew my contract, getting in a recent graphic design graduate (at a lower rate) to finish it off. From what I heard, it never was finished. These days, I'm very careful to explain in excruciating detail exactly what I'm doing and why; the client may never read the reports, but it covers me somewhat against idiocy like that. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Standards Table Layout
On 7/31/06 5:41 AM, Nick Fitzsimons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Three months in, the department head went on a 2 day course in DreamWeaver, and on her return wanted to know why it had taken me so long when it was only a few pages. Shortly after they didn't renew my contract, getting in a recent graphic design graduate (at a lower rate) to finish it off. From what I heard, it never was finished. These days, I'm very careful to explain in excruciating detail exactly what I'm doing and why; the client may never read the reports, but it covers me somewhat against idiocy like that. Cheers, Nick. I've had a few experiences like thatthe most memorable was when I was just starting out, and agreed to this insane gig doing a webzine for these two guys. It was three full Flash menus, along with a bunch of text pages in HTML and 9 articles a month. The guys couldn't understand why it took so long to code the updates to the site (there were between 4 and 9 ActionScript rollovers on each page, and up to 30 images to prep for each issue), and didn't want to pay me for what the job was actually worth. When I finally got sick of it (after a total of three months of haggling over the price of updates), I left the job, and they had a total of ONE issue after that before the webzine folded. They couldn't find anyone to do their updates for the rate I had initially agreed to (and they thought that was too expensiveif I told you what it was, you'd laugh your butts off). It's always amazing to me when I see that kind of ignorance. And at least once or twice, it's come from someone in the industryboth print and Web design (I do both). It makes me twitch sometimes. Cheers, Dani ~~ Dani Nordin the zen kitchen Graphic and web design with a touch of green 1 Fitchburg Street, B160 Somerville, MA 02143 401.787.5178 mobile See a full portfolio and sign up for our monthly newsletterthoughts on design, life, food and other trivialitiesat http://www.tzk-design.com Read our notes from the zen kitchenweekly(ish) articles on design, the environment, and life as a business owner - at http://zenkitchen.blogspot.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Standards Table Layout
Hi, Perhaps I was vague. I need examples of good CSS/Table designs. I've got the CSS layout sites bookmarked, and visited to the point of fraying the pages :) CK On Jul 30, 2006, at 5:44 PM, Paul Novitski wrote: At 06:15 AM 7/30/2006, CK wrote: A client who is clinging to the web of yore, is still insisting on tables being used for layout. It is the misconception tables provide greater browser compatibility, the client supports IE 5.X for MAC OS. Actually, I think table-based layout DOES provide cross-browser consistency as your client maintains. The argument against tables for layout isn't that they don't render consistently cross-browser but that they don't fit non-tabular data semantically, they can obfuscate content for non-visual readers, their layouts are rigid and unresizable, and, because they hard-wire presentation in the HTML markup, they create a site-maintenance boondoggle down the road. Even if your client doesn't care about semantics and is insensitive to the needs of the visually impaired, you might be able to persuade them that their long-term website expenses will be reduced significantly if they let you separate content from presentation today. Unfortunately for your argument, your client's short-term web development expenses might be less if you use tables, unless you've already become good enough at CSS layout that you can whip Mac IE 5.x into line without hours of trial error. There are many sites that feature CSS layout examples. To know which ones can replace tables effectively for this project you'll need to define your layout goals. Which aspects of table-based layout does your client consider important? A list of those attributes will help point you to the appropriate CSS layout techniques that will satisfy you both. Regards, Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] w3c inspecting icon factory
Can animated GIFs achieves this level of animation? QT at least is better than WMP or RM format, and it's more accessible for PC users to download than having Mac user download Window Media Player (which Microsoft no longer support Mac platform) and Real Player. That just means that QT, WMP, and RM are all bad. What do Google Video and Youtube use? Flash/FLV. I would recommend FLV over any of the previous 3. This is one case where Flash really is the best option*. Experience at work has shown it's the least troubled way to provide video to users. Not perfect, but considering that video on computers tends to be a nightmare of broken plugins and not found codecs... Flash isn't so bad. -Ben [*] To those who know my opinion of Flash - yes I really did just say that ;) -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem
I have a CSS based dynamic menu that drops down and there is a flash movie that is right under the menu. The flash movie is set to transparent and the menu pops down over the flash menu in all browsers correctly except in Safari. In Safari the menu displays over the flash movie but when you go over the top of sub menu items they drop behind the flash movie for some reason. Is there anyone out there that can help me? I really appreciate it! Corrie Potter **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem
This works in IE6 and not safari!?! I would confirm the z-index of your dropdown parent container and flash parent container. If you havent set this, apply position:relative z-index:1 to the flash container and position:relative; z-index:5 to the dropdown container to see if that helps. Applying it to the container instead of the dropdown/flash themselves will help you in ie6. you may have to do both: flash container z-index1, flash- z-index:2, dropdowncontainer:z-index5; dropdown:z-index:10 If you can survive without zindex, you are better off. Id also check to see how you are embedding the flash movie. Are you using the UFO script, embed, object, combination? Ted www.last-child.com From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Corrie Potter Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 7:58 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem I have a CSS based dynamic menu that drops down and there is a flash movie that is right under the menu. The flash movie is set to transparent and the menu pops down over the flash menu in all browsers correctly except in Safari. In Safari the menu displays over the flash movie but when you go over the top of sub menu items they drop behind the flash movie for some reason. Is there anyone out there that can help me? I really appreciate it! Corrie Potter **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem
From: Corrie Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have a CSS based dynamic menu that drops down and there is a flash movie that is right under the menu. The flash movie is set to transparent and the menu pops down over the flash menu in all browsers correctly except in Safari. In Safari the menu displays over the flash movie but when you go over the top of sub menu items they drop behind the flash movie for some reason. Is there anyone out there that can help me? I really appreciate it! It's a Safari bug. Last year, a Macromedia engineer filed a bug report with Apple. It has not been acted upon. The only workarounds are to either: 1. Get rid of Flash (usually not a bad idea :-) 2. Use a script to hide or replace the Flash when the submenus are being shown. 3. Eliminate all hover behaviors for the submenus. You can also write to Apple and report the issue. I imagine if enough people report it, they might decide to fix it. It seems tied to the techniques that Safari uses to create the illusion of speed. Mozilla uses similar tricks, but with a bit more aplomb :-) -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Standards Table Layout
Germ wrote: Just tell the client that you will do your job and he can do his own job. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.4/402 - Release Date: 7/27/2006 Forget the soapbox talk. You can't expect to battle tables out of a client, especially when IE Mac is concerned. As some of the responses stated, tables are fine, just keep them to a minimum. You will of course want to mention the screen reader thing. Its ultimately the client's decision but you can't expect to force their hand. In practice, this whole debate comes down to the difference of a couple div tags or a a couple tr/td tabs. Just make it clean either way, do your best, get paid and email the client in 6 months with the latest accessibility law change / suit or whatever reminding them they should think about changing that minor issue of the site. Everyone's happy. Hurray for happiness! -- Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC http://sitesbyjoe.com (609)335-3076 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **begin:vcard fn:Joseph R. B. Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Web Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;cell:609-335-3076 note:Whatever your project, feel free to call or email me to chat about it. I'm always happy to advise you on any inquiries, make suggestions and provide you a quote. x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Standards Table Layout
CK wrote: Hi, Perhaps I was vague. I need examples of good CSS/Table designs. I've got the CSS layout sites bookmarked, and visited to the point of fraying the pages :) CK On Jul 30, 2006, at 5:44 PM, Paul Novitski wrote: At 06:15 AM 7/30/2006, CK wrote: A client who is clinging to the web of yore, is still insisting on tables being used for layout. It is the misconception tables provide greater browser compatibility, the client supports IE 5.X for MAC OS. Actually, I think table-based layout DOES provide cross-browser consistency as your client maintains. The argument against tables for layout isn't that they don't render consistently cross-browser but that they don't fit non-tabular data semantically, they can obfuscate content for non-visual readers, their layouts are rigid and unresizable, and, because they hard-wire presentation in the HTML markup, they create a site-maintenance boondoggle down the road. Even if your client doesn't care about semantics and is insensitive to the needs of the visually impaired, you might be able to persuade them that their long-term website expenses will be reduced significantly if they let you separate content from presentation today. Unfortunately for your argument, your client's short-term web development expenses might be less if you use tables, unless you've already become good enough at CSS layout that you can whip Mac IE 5.x into line without hours of trial error. There are many sites that feature CSS layout examples. To know which ones can replace tables effectively for this project you'll need to define your layout goals. Which aspects of table-based layout does your client consider important? A list of those attributes will help point you to the appropriate CSS layout techniques that will satisfy you both. Regards, Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Since I see your last request for clean table designs, is it an issue of your not being very strong with CSS? I mean, any big site out there, e.g. http://target.com will be made with tables and feature a nice layout. Your job is to simple copy the code, add a border to the tables, open in a GUI, remove the superfluous nested tables and use your CSS to fill in the gaps. -- Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC http://sitesbyjoe.com (609)335-3076 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **begin:vcard fn:Joseph R. B. Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Web Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;cell:609-335-3076 note:Whatever your project, feel free to call or email me to chat about it. I'm always happy to advise you on any inquiries, make suggestions and provide you a quote. x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem
I've seen this behavior first hand. Z-index doesn't help. The flash movie tends to peak through most things that appears on top of it - ESPECIALLY if it is animated in anyway.My solution: on rollover - hide the movie.Safari seems to be the only one that has this problem in fact.www.rommil.com | www.webflightcheck.comOn 31-Jul-06, at 11:17 AM, Ted Drake wrote:This works in IE6 and not safari!?!I would confirm the z-index of your dropdown parent container and flash parent container. If you haven’t set this, apply position:relative z-index:1 to the flash container and position:relative; z-index:5 to the dropdown container to see if that helps. Applying it to the container instead of the dropdown/flash themselves will help you in ie6. you may have to do both: flash container – z-index1, flash- z-index:2, dropdowncontainer:z-index5; dropdown:z-index:10… If you can survive without zindex, you are better off. I’d also check to see how you are embedding the flash movie. Are you using the UFO script, embed, object, combination…? Tedwww.last-child.com From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:listdad@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Corrie PotterSent: Monday, July 31, 2006 7:58 AMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem I have a CSS based dynamic menu that drops down and there is a flash movie that is right under the menu. The flash movie is set to transparent and the menu pops down over the flash menu in all browsers correctly except in Safari. In Safari the menu displays over the flash movie but when you go over the top of sub menu items they drop behind the flash movie for some reason. Is there anyone out there that can help me? I really appreciate it! Corrie Potter**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] New with a ?
Thank you Paul for a very informative answer... I am going to read this that you mention and absorb every word of it. I have always designed fluid sites in the past - so I am very good at that, it's just that my site and the design I have created have grown - far too much :) Tina --- I really like this: http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/jello.html HTH -- Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Standards Table Layout
Hi,Very strong with CSS, but not with using tables improperly. So I thought it best to confer with the list. I've since found: http://i3forum.com/an example from "Designing With Web Standards." I'll be using this as my model.Respectfully,CKOn Jul 31, 2006, at 11:53 AM, Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote:Since I see your last request for clean table designs, is it an issue of your not being very strong with CSS? I mean, any big site out there, e.g. http://target.com will be made with tables and feature a nice layout. Your job is to simple copy the code, add a border to the tables, open in a GUI, remove the superfluous nested tables and use your CSS to fill in the gaps. **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] Standards Table Layout
hahaha, congratulations! I also think the same as Joseph. We need to patiently inform our clients about our job. Maybe not so easy at a start but we will get used to. I´m starting with only one client. And it works, cause I´m just beign sincere. Well, patience and work! It will be ok then. Best regards; Eugenio. On 7/31/06, pdr Lists [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just tell the client that you will do your job and he can do his own job. I did that the other day, and surprisingly wasn't fired. To be honest, I was quite tactful and constructive in how I put the point across, but I asked the client to trust my professional knowledge and experience, and if anything she was rather impressed. I think it is important for us to remind clients that we are professionals and know what we are talking about (mostly). Regards, Peter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] w3c inspecting icon factory
On 7/29/06 4:06 AM, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Flash/FLV. I would recommend FLV over any of the previous 3. Flash plugin is installed on more computers than any of the other mentioned formats. FLV, definitely. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem
Title: Re: [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem On 7/31/06 11:17 AM, Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a CSS based dynamic menu that drops down and there is a flash movie that is right under the menu. The flash movie is set to transparent and the menu pops down over the flash menu in all browsers correctly except in Safari. In Safari the menu displays over the flash movie but when you go over the top of sub menu items they drop behind the flash movie for some reason. Is there anyone out there that can help me? I really appreciate it! Corrie Potter We have this as well. Flash wmode set to transparent/opaque AND absolutely no hover actions at all will usually fix it. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem
From what I can find in the bug reports at http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/ at least some WebKit developers seem to be of the opinion that this is due to a bug in the Flash plugin - see for example the comments at: http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10111 But also see http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6996 which casts some doubt on where exactly responsibility lies. Rommil Santiago wrote: I've seen this behavior first hand. Z-index doesn't help. The flash movie tends to peak through most things that appears on top of it - ESPECIALLY if it is animated in anyway. My solution: on rollover - hide the movie. Safari seems to be the only one that has this problem in fact. www.rommil.com | www.webflightcheck.com http://www.webflightcheck.com/ On 31-Jul-06, at 11:17 AM, Ted Drake wrote: This works in IE6 and not safari!?! I would confirm the z-index of your dropdown parent container and flash parent container. If you haven’t set this, apply position:relative z-index:1 to the flash container and position:relative; z-index:5 to the dropdown container to see if that helps. Applying it to the container instead of the dropdown/flash themselves will help you in ie6. you may have to do both: flash container – z-index1, flash- z-index:2, dropdowncontainer:z-index5; dropdown:z-index:10… If you can survive without zindex, you are better off. I’d also check to see how you are embedding the flash movie. Are you using the UFO script, embed, object, combination…? Ted www.last-child.com http://www.last-child.com/ * From: * listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Corrie Potter *Sent:* Monday, July 31, 2006 7:58 AM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem I have a CSS based dynamic menu that drops down and there is a flash movie that is right under the menu. The flash movie is set to transparent and the menu pops down over the flash menu in all browsers correctly except in Safari. In Safari the menu displays over the flash movie but when you go over the top of sub menu items they drop behind the flash movie for some reason. Is there anyone out there that can help me? I really appreciate it! Corrie Potter -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem
From what I can find in the bug reports at http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/ at least some WebKit developers seem to be of the opinion that this is due to a bug in the Flash plugin - see for example the comments at: http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10111 But also see http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6996 which casts some doubt on where exactly responsibility lies. I think it actually casts more than doubt, the thread kind of ends with this remark: Firefox (using the same Flash v8 plugin) draws the menu's correctly. There are related bugs in Safari that become apparent when usinig the DOM to add behavior to a page. They are obviously taking shortcuts to make their browser appear as fast as they can. But I guess that kind of goes off-topic, so that's all he wrote :-) -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] TD Overflow:Hidden?
Hi All can i get overflow:hidden on a td, without use of div/span nested inside that TD? Thanks NeoSwf **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem
Corrie, Sounds like wmode=transparent is not set correctly ...!? Next you could try the IE trick used to show dhtml navs over form input elements - i.e. dynamicially position an iframe behind the dhtml element - Googled this and came up with http://homepage.mac.com/igstudio/design/ulsmenus/vertical-uls-iframe.html Cheers Ken McCormack www.p21.com.au Rommil Santiago wrote: I've seen this behavior first hand. Z-index doesn't help. The flash movie tends to peak through most things that appears on top of it - ESPECIALLY if it is animated in anyway. My solution: on rollover - hide the movie. Safari seems to be the only one that has this problem in fact. www.rommil.com | www.webflightcheck.com http://www.webflightcheck.com/ On 31-Jul-06, at 11:17 AM, Ted Drake wrote: This works in IE6 and not safari!?! I would confirm the z-index of your dropdown parent container and flash parent container. If you haven’t set this, apply position:relative z-index:1 to the flash container and position:relative; z-index:5 to the dropdown container to see if that helps. Applying it to the container instead of the dropdown/flash themselves will help you in ie6. you may have to do both: flash container – z-index1, flash- z-index:2, dropdowncontainer:z-index5; dropdown:z-index:10… If you can survive without zindex, you are better off. I’d also check to see how you are embedding the flash movie. Are you using the UFO script, embed, object, combination…? Ted www.last-child.com http://www.last-child.com/ *From:* listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Corrie Potter *Sent:* Monday, July 31, 2006 7:58 AM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem I have a CSS based dynamic menu that drops down and there is a flash movie that is right under the menu. The flash movie is set to transparent and the menu pops down over the flash menu in all browsers correctly except in Safari. In Safari the menu displays over the flash movie but when you go over the top of sub menu items they drop behind the flash movie for some reason. Is there anyone out there that can help me? I really appreciate it! Corrie Potter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem
Corrie Potter wrote: I have a CSS based dynamic menu that drops down and there is a flash movie that is right under the menu. The flash movie is set to transparent and the menu pops down over the flash menu in all browsers correctly except in Safari. wmode=opaque Not a 100% fix... but is usable and works better (imho) than transparent. You might gander at: Flash, DHTML Menus and Accessibility: http://snipurl.com/m08r This article has shown you reasons you may want to use opaque mode in your Flash movies. Opaque mode allows your DHTML drop down menus to stay in front of your Flash movie as well as hiding non-essential Flash from screen readers. Yes, transparent mode will also allow your DHTML drop down menus to render properly and will hide non-essential Flash, but due to possible performance issues, that's best left for opaque mode. Use transparent mode to show elements stacked beneath your Flash movie and when actual transparency is needed. Here is the example used from that article: WMODE(s): http://snipurl.com/u6hx Hths. Cheers, Micky ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] JAWS/ screen reader users
Hi Guys, Any screen reader users out there who would be willing to take a few minutes out to help test a Flash app we have built for special needs kids to exams with? If you could please drop me a mail, i will send you a url and a login. Any help would be most appreciated. Regards Gavin PS i'll likely not reply for a few hours... it's midnight in ireland. -- www.gavcooney.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] JAWS/ screen reader users
I would be happy to help. Steve Green Director Test Partners Ltd / First Accessibility http://www.testpartners.co.uk http://www.accessibility.co.uk Gavin Cooney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, Any screen reader users out there who would be willing to take a few minutes out to help test a Flash app we have built for special needs kids to exams with? If you could please drop me a mail, i will send you a url and a login. Any help would be most appreciated. Regards Gavin PS i'll likely not reply for a few hours... it's midnight in ireland. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] URL Safari Check
Could I please get a Safari check on the following URL: http://www.waterwisetanks.com/index2.html Cheers. -- Christian Fagan Fagan Design 0432 220 579 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] URL Safari Check
i could do it tonight for you - eastern standard time about 9pm?? On 8/1/06, Christian Fagan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could I please get a Safari check on the following URL: http://www.waterwisetanks.com/index2.htmlCheers.--Christian FaganFagan Design0432 220 579[EMAIL PROTECTED]** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] URL Safari Check
I took a look. I saw two things.1. from the contact page, the home button doesn't work (didn't test the other pages)2. the footer stylesheet doesn't seem to be applied on the sub pagesotherwise, looks really good!Lisa Lisa Ellington: Design Coding at Push Agency [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 704 707 3983 | aim: pushagency On Jul 31, 2006, at 8:36 PM, Meghan Teal wrote:i could do it tonight for you - eastern standard time about 9pm?? On 8/1/06, Christian Fagan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could I please get a Safari check on the following URL: http://www.waterwisetanks.com/index2.htmlCheers.--Christian FaganFagan Design0432 220 579[EMAIL PROTECTED]** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] Standards Table Layout
CK wrote: Greetings: A client who is clinging to the web of yore, is still insisting on tables being used for layout. It is the misconception tables provide greater browser compatibility, the client supports IE 5.X for MAC OS. Greetings CK - is there a specific IE 5.2 bug/problem that you know you will be unable to work around? Or will the client not pay you for the extra time it would take to get the CSS working for IE 5.2? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] TD Overflow:Hidden?
Hi,In short: no. As the W3C draft states:The 'height'
property on 'table'
boxes is treated as a minimum height. CSS 2.1 does not define how
extra space is distributed when the 'height' property causes the table
to be taller than it otherwise would be.I managed to get overflow:hidden working in firefox by specifying td {display:block;height:2em;overflow:hidden}; however:the table then loses its structure
it doesn't work in IEA quick google search pointed me to this blog entry that discusses another person's struggles with this:http://annevankesteren.nl/2004/01/css-tables
I hope this clarifies things for you.Regards,--adam--On 8/1/06, Shlomi Asaf
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi All
can i get overflow:hidden on a td, without use of div/span nested inside that TD?
Thanks
NeoSwf
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[WSG] Default browser stylesheet values
Hey all, Just wondering if anyone is aware of any web resources that detail the default style values given to various elements by browsers (specifically IE6)? For example, what are the default IE6 CSS values for body, h1-6, p, etc? I've already tried Googling this myself, but didn't come up with anything. Thanks in advance, Paul Hempsall Web Developer Lake Macquarie City Council Phone: (02) 4921-0713 Fax: (02) 4921-0566 Web: http://www.lakemac.com.au This information is intended for the addressee only. The use, copying or distribution of this message or any information it contains, by anyone other than the addressee is prohibited by the sender. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Council. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Default browser stylesheet values
Hi Paul, I usually start with Tantek's 'debug scaffolding' to create a consistent starting point by ruling out the various browser defaults - not sure if this is what you had in mind but I find it a great approach. http://tantek.com/log/2004/09.html#d06t2354 Erik has also written about it in his archives 'Really Undoing html.css' at: http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/15/emreallyem-undoing-htmlcss/ Cheers, Sandra russ - maxdesign wrote: Here is the one recommended by the W3C http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/sample.html One clumsy way I have used in the past to test individual browsers it to put two identical html files beside each other - one without any css and the other with css in the head. Then you can zero all margins, padding size etc for specific elements in this second html file and add your own css to try and match the unstyled version. Not ideal but it works :) Russ Hey all, Just wondering if anyone is aware of any web resources that detail the default style values given to various elements by browsers (specifically IE6)? For example, what are the default IE6 CSS values for body, h1-6, p, etc? I've already tried Googling this myself, but didn't come up with anything. Thanks in advance, Paul Hempsall Web Developer Lake Macquarie City Council Phone: (02) 4921-0713 Fax: (02) 4921-0566 Web: http://www.lakemac.com.au This information is intended for the addressee only. The use, copying or distribution of this message or any information it contains, by anyone other than the addressee is prohibited by the sender. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Council. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Thanks Russ --- Russ Weakley Max Design Phone: (02) 9410 2521 Mobile: 0403 433 980 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/ News: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/feed/ Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/russweakley/ Sams Teach Yourself CSS in 10 Minutes: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/book/ --- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Sandra Vassallo e-Bility Inclusive IT Web Accessibility Usability Solutions t: 02 9810 2216 m: 0414 765 881 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Inclusive IT: www.inclusiveit.com.au e-Bility web: www.e-bility.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
