Dear Howard,
thanks for the coaching, but I have to say, that I really couldn't hear
any significant difference. Only with the equal tuning one, which was
different from the MT ones and more appealing somehow.
It's probably due to age :)
Best wishes
G
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019
You might go back and listen to the first F chord, the fourth note of the
piece, in the quarter-comma tuning a few times, then listen to the same chord
in any of the other meantone tunings. It’s weird to the point of dissonance in
the quarter-comma version, and very different from the others.
Dear Rainer,
when listening to Tarletone, which came in 4 versions, I have to say,
that to my ears, they all sounded virtually the same, at least the 3 MT
versions.
For some reason, my ears prefered the equal temperament one, although I
can't exactly say why. It felt more "crisp"
There is, however, a solution to the problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0akGtDPVRxk
On 22.07.19 22:13, Andreas Schlegel wrote:
I know: the citation is German. But any translation makes an interpretation and
therefore it’s the best to give citations in the original language:
Dear all,
I hope I haven't missed anyone's mention of Bardi, but he apparently
witnessed the problem discussed here
âand more than once Iâve felt like laughing when I saw musicians
struggling to put a lute or a viol into proper tune with a keyboard..."
My own personal
I'm coming late to the discussion; perhaps an interesting read for some
of us would be Adam Wead's dissertation titled "Lute Tuning and
Temperament in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries". Here, I
believe, is the link:
I quoted your words so any reader could tell whether I was distorting your
meaning.
And whatever I was doing, it wasn’t a “syllogism,” which is defined as "a form
of reasoning in which a conclusion is drawn (whether validly or not) from two
given or assumed propositions (premises), each of
So you don't alter the tuning of the open strings on your lute when changing
temperaments? No wonder you don't like meantone.
Best,
Matthew
> On Jul 22, 2019, at 21:55, Ron Andrico wrote:
>
> It's even worse when a guitarist has to tune to a keyboard or an accordion in
> ensemble because
I know: the citation is German. But any translation makes an interpretation and
therefore itâs the best to give citations in the original language:
Praetorius 1619, Syntagma II, 156â157:
NB. Hierbey habe ich auch des Calvisii Meynung de Temperatura Instrumentorum
uffzusetzen nicht
Having played all manner of ensemble music, including cittern in
consort, for upwards of forty years, yes, I agree. And in such cases,
lute players, who have more flexibility, must shove their moveable
frets around to arrive at a reasonably tempered scale, hopefully using
their
Citterns are keyboard instruments and metal strings introduce alternative
temperament issues? Gosh, I am learning a lot of alternative facts at the
moment.
Best,
Matthew
> On Jul 22, 2019, at 21:34, Ron Andrico wrote:
>
> David, citterns are strung with wire, which introduces alternative
My point was they were played in consort with lutes, which has
consequences for the temperament of the lutes. Same is true for the
wind and keyboard instruments in l'Orfeo or the Maria Vespers. Lutes
are not solo instruments only, when they go out in the world and meet
their fellow
David, citterns are strung with wire, which introduces alternative
temperament issues and places them more in the class of a keyboard
instrument.
RA
__
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf
of David van
Sorry Howard, but you employed a faulty syllogism contrived by altering
and amending my words, a typical lawyerly device. I did not state that
following Galilei's precepts is the one true way. I said that
musicians who understand music and wish to explore the more interesting
That's why I am usually quiet. Better say nothing and left the others
with the doubt you are dumb than speak out and make them sure you are
dumb indeed :-):-)
Messaggio originale
Da: David van Ooijen
Data: 22/07/19 20:13 (GMT+01:00)
A:
Cc:
Citterns play in broken consort with lutes. Been there, done that.
Temperament, not to mention tuning, certainly is an issue.
It's nice for members to speak out on subjects, it's even better when
they do so on subjects they have some experience with.
David
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019
Hardly ever?...
In paintings, there's often other instruments...
And what about Orpharion? It also has fixed frets...
On 22.07.19 19:59, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:
Citterns play in only 2 keys, and hardly ever with other instruments.
so it is not a problem there.
RT
I reckon that there's also different lutist temperaments.
Let's not use mean tone though :)
On 22.07.19 19:36, howard posner wrote:
On Jul 22, 2019, at 5:01 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:
I am very good at distilling complex ideas into concise terms . . .
What I do not value is the manner in
Citterns play in only 2 keys, and hardly ever with other instruments.
so it is not a problem there.
RT
http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
> On Jul 22, 2019, at 10:47 AM, David van Ooijen
> wrote:
>
> Fixed fretted instrument had some sort of MT. Citerns
> On Jul 22, 2019, at 5:01 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:
>
> I am very good at distilling complex ideas into concise terms . . .
> What I do not value is the manner in which various players claim authority by
> stating that their particular approach is the one true way.
But you’re the one who just
I say "e."
Get [1]Outlook for Android
__
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf
of Mark Probert
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 2:41:44 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Bach and the lute
Hi
Fixed fretted instrument had some sort of MT. Citerns with an
approximation 1/6 comma MT come to mind. That's not a modern
interpretation or an awkward stretch.
>
>on. There survive some historical discussions of lute
fretting but the
>language is unclear or
Ditto ! Thanks Ron !
Jean-Marie Poirier
> Le 22 juil. 2019 à 14:01, Ron Andrico a écrit :
>
> Yes, Howard, I am very good at distilling complex ideas into concise
> terms, and I am tempted to stop at saying thanks for your laudatory
> statement, barbs and all. But we dwell in an age
Yes, Howard, I am very good at distilling complex ideas into concise
terms, and I am tempted to stop at saying thanks for your laudatory
statement, barbs and all. But we dwell in an age that places far too
much value on the shaping of public perceptions through subtle language
via
On 22.07.2019 04:15, Jurgen Frenz wrote:
to my opinion it would be great if someone anyone would record an identical
piece of renaissance music twice: once in equal temperament and once in a
different tuning so that everybody can appreciate the difference.
Of course, one thing that nobody
For those of you who are looking for help experimenting with meantone and other
temperaments, David van Ooijen's webpage is a very good starting point:
https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com/mean-tone-temperament-for-lute/
Best,
Matthew
Le 21 juil. 2019 à 17:34, David van Ooijen a écrit :
>
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