Wow - thank you, Ed and Howard. I had only seen one photograph taken of the
whole collegium at Yale. This one was obviously taken before Joe had found a
real lute. Martha Bixler is the only other student in the photo that I
recognize.
-Original Message-
From: howard posner
Since vegans are opposed to the use of animals for food, clothing, or
any other purpose, it would follow that vegan lutenists would not want
to use gut strings. So, if addressing an audience which might include
vegans, it would be prudent to point out that synthetic strings are a
Anthony Bailes does discuss at some length his reasons for using the
instrument he does for these recordings, but does not talk about size
as such. His primary consideration appears to be the sound, saying
that French music - particularly that of the Gaultiers - depends on
the
Thank you for your kind words, David.
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Thank you very much, Anton. I hope to one day find a second lutenist
with whom to play some of these!
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Since Anthony Bailes recent recording of music by Denis and Ennemond
Gaultier has been mentioned here, I would just say that I ordered it
and have been enjoying it. From the standpoint of recorded sound, I
agree with the comment that it is overly reverberant. It's recorded in
a
Thanks for that informatinon, d.
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Thanks for that notice, Ed. Just ordered a copy from Amazon.com.
Ned
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Thanks for your post. Room modes can be a real problem, either for
recording or for just listening to a system.
Ned
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For sure many good recordings have come from the Decca tree set-up (I'm
not sure if I've heard any other than orchestral). I hope d will have
time this summer to put some mixes on line - I'd like to compare them.
Ned
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Not to beat this issue of recorded sound to death, but I just listened
to a CD I'd forgotten I had: The Renaissance Lute, by Ronn Mc Farlane
on Dorian. To me this is one of the better recent (well, 1994) lute
recordings I've heard. I'm familiar with Dorian as a company well
Well, recorded sound is a matter of taste, to be sure (it seems clear
that there is no reference for good recorded sound). But I would be
curious as to why dt feels so many - 6 or more - mics are necessary for
recording a single instrument. Whether it's multi-micing or too
much
Did anyone else have a problem bringing up the site Jaroslaw provided?
I would like to see his microphone set up.
Regarding dt's reasons for using several mics, the ones regarding
malfunctions or surround sound recording make perfect sense (though I'm
sure that any engineer would
P.S. Just to offer a bit of perspective to my previous comments: I've
done quit a number of recordings of violinists, pianists, and chamber
groups (string quartets, piano trios, etc.) with two good (not super)
quality mics and unsophisitcated electronics that resulted in
Thanks for that perspective, dt. I'm fortunate in having a group here
with which to read early notation weekly. They all play recorder and
have been doing workshops in this notation for several years. They've
been patient with my beginning efforts in early notation as well as
I'm considering summer workshops on the East coast that would offer
mixed ensemble playing opportunities for lutenists. Has anyone here
attended the Amherst summer workshop, and recommends it?
Ned
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From a totally non-scholarly point of view - just using my ears and my
own musical taste - I would never use octaves on any course that I
might be playing thumb-index alternately. So, for me, only courses
below the sixth.
Ned
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In working my way through David Talyer's graduate thesis on Dowland
(great fun) I came across the statement regarding Dowland's stringing
(p.82): The very highest string, tuned as high as it could stand
(modern players, incidentally tend to make do with one half to two
thirds this
Thanks, Howard. These directions do leave a lot to one's
interpretation.
Ned
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Thanks for posting. Everyone looks very happy - with good music and
good wine, what's not to smile about?
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Anthony,
The digital vs. analogue battle will never be resolved, I think. I
still have a library full of records, in addition to a sizable
collection of CDs. I think my best vinyl still sounds more natural
than my best CDs, but the CDs are more consistent in quality. Certainly
Mics are so cheap now there is no reason not to use four. Yes, the
standard practice is to use several microphones for stereo recording.
But there is something to be said for just using two. My favorite
orchestral - and chamber music - recordings are done with just two,
including
Many do-it-yourself youtube recordings sound more natural to me than
commercial recordings. Good mics really help, and picking a decent
room and good mic placement help too. But, for my money, leave the
artificial reverb out. I use the Zoom Q3 because it's a simple
all-in-one
Looking on youtube for a video of the Earl of Essex Galliard the other
night, I came across one by Elizabeth Brown. A fine player, but sounds
I never heard from a lute live. I wondered what her recording engineer
was thinking. But then I remembered that her sound was not
Aside from the precaution of keeping one's fingernails trimmed to
minimize wear on a lute top, is there anything to do if a top already
has substantial wear, to protect against further wear? I'm thinking in
terms of something like a clear varnish over the worn area. Has anyone
Wonderful! (Though one does begin to miss the lower pitches after a
time). Eat your heart out, Tiny Tim!
Ned
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From my experience, I'd say your perception is about right.
Ned
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Last night I enjoyed hearing the Italian duo Vittorio Ghielmi (bass v
da gamba) and Luca Pianca (arch-lute) play a program of baroque music.
Vittorio did a lot of playing above the frets on the gamba - later
music I guess was thus written? Very virtuosic playing. And the
loudest
Yes, I was told he uses Renaissance tuning. But it looked like all the
music he played from was in regular staff notation (treble bass
clefs) , not tablature. And manuscript that looked quite messy in some
instances.
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Great music wonderfully played - thank you!
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Since Dowland hated Divisions. . . This statement piques my
curiosity. Is there a readily available text that discusses Dowland's
life and his musical styles? There seems to be a book by O'Dette (as
co-author); would this be a recommended place to begin?
Thanks,
Ned
Thank you, David. I've downloaded your thesis and am printing it. I
look forward to reading it.
Ned
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Thank you for that answer, David. Thinking about what you said, I see
now that I was not thinking clearly about how one tunes a 10-course
lute. I was thinking that one could tune the 7th course as D, and then
just add the bass tunings for courses 8, 9, and 10 however they're
I'm about to put a lute on the LSA 'sale' site. If anyone - in the
continental US - is interested in a Larry Brown 8 course student lute
with plywood case, contact me off list. A fine playing and sounding
instrument.
Ned
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Aside from the issue of musical instruments, there seem to be some odd
perspective relationships going on in the painting. Examples: the
basket of fruit at the top right sitting on a wood 'cabinet', the
drawer of the table in relation to the cabinet and the table itself,
the bowl
Having just replaced all the frets on an instrument for the first time
(buzzing problems) I was pleasantly surprised at the difference in the
clarity of the sound of the instrument. A significant increase, unless
my ears are mistaken. (Since I bought the instrument used, I don't
Since a lute in a case (even small Renaissance) is too large for carry
on, I'm pondering the options should I fly this summer with my
instrument. I suspect a custom made shipping case would be rather
expensive, and wonder if anyone here has tried any of the available
commercial
Thanks for all the replies to my question about flying with my lute.
You've given my things to consider. Since my instrument in its light
weight case would undoubtedly fit in overhead storage, it's tempting to
ask to let me take it on board with me when I'm at the gate. But I'm
Thanks for posting these. I had some trouble with the youtube site -
one would not play and another was not found - but will try again. The
one I saw I enjoyed very much. And I agree with your sentiment;
spontaneity is a most important ingedient of musical performances.
Ned
This has been a fascinating thread! I've enjoyed reading all the
observations by different players. I've decided that my time is best
spent further developing my playing skills before dealing with the
issue of which strings to try (synthetics came on the instrument and
I'll just
Thanks, Martin - this makes sense to me.
Ned
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Absolutely, Eugene. While my nylgut or nylon strings remain quite
stable day to day, I find myself having to retune the wound strings
daily. Mostly downward (they get sharp). So obviously they are
binding at the nut. I really must take them off and see if I can file
the nut
Well, I have wondered too, if - as I've read - Dowland evolved from
thumb under to thumb over as he played lutes with more courses, why
thumb over is not more commonly used. But then, I definitely hear and
feel a significant difference between the two approaches when I manage
to
Hello Dan,
I enjoyed your videos and am impressed by your seeming equal fluency
with both right hand techniques. The sound of the viheuela and lute
are quite different, so I wouldn't say I could make a judgement about
differences in the sound of both techniques. But, as I say,
I'm curious as to when it is thought the rest stroke for the thumb came
into common use. Was it commonly used on the Renaissance lute? Do we
think Dowland used it early, or late, or at all in his career?
Thanks,
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Thanks to all for your responses. I should have said that I was
thinking only in terms of its being used when playing bass
notes/lines. As to how important to know if Dowland used it, not
terribly. Just curious. I only very recently discovered mention - and
recommendation - of
I will be out much of today, but for those who inquired about this
instrument, rest assured that I am keeping a record of all inquiries -
in the order of time of posting - and will let everyone know it's
'status' as soon as do. (To be honest, I didn't expect quite so many
I have a Hauser-style 7 course lute available for the cost of
shipping. This is a large-body instrument with a string length of 64
cm, tuned in g (built in 1971 by a guitar maker from plans for a Hauser
instrument). This is too large and heavy an instrument to be considered
Thanks for the introduction - have you named him/her? A lovely
sounding instrument, but as Heifetz said to a listener who complimented
him on the sound of his instrument; (holding it to his ear) I don't
hear anything.
Ned
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This has been an instructive thread. Recently I've posted a few short
pieces on youtube (edward18121) but haven't mentioned this to anyone
but a few friends. Initially, I thought my motivation for doing this
would be to get some constructive critical commentary, especially since
I
Thank you for that fine playing of an engaging piece, Arto.
You wrote: Of course each of us, who write or send music to the net,
know that the stuff will be there forever
Is this necessarily so? A delete option does appear, and I would hope
that we are able to delete early
To repeat my comments to the group (since I replied privately
inadvertently), I thought the music quite lovely, and very nicely
played. Franz's point concerning the absence of constructive
critical commentary may be pertinent. Since I'm working on Renaissance
lute only, and am not
Thank you, David. Have been looking forward to more lessons.
Ned
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As I recall, Tye's Sit Fast was a popular piece on faculty concerts
at summer workshops I attended. Do you assign it as an performance
ensemble piece, David?
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Thanks and most impressive, Chris. While my ear has yet to be seduced
by the sound of the theorbo as it has been by the lute, your
arrangements and playing are wonderful. May all your strings resonant
with wonderful harmonies in the new year.
Ned
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And the same to you, Karen. If 'lute appreciator' doesn't include lute
player, I'm sure all here would encourage you to join all those of us
who are amateur players.
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Thank you for posting this, Ron Donna - what a wonderfully simpatico
duo you are. Superb playing, singing and musicality!
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I don't see how it's substantially different from any other
instrument's repetoire. . .
I don't think it's denigrating to any instrument to accept that there
are very substantial differences in both quantity and quality
between it's repetoire and that of other instuments.The
I think the quest for louder and louder musical instruments is
inevitable. With larger concert halls more musical volume is needed.
And as listeners experience more and more noise in their daily
environments, they become less sensitive to lower volume music. And -
in addition to
And a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to your, Stefan. Thanks for
posting the photos - quite a gathering! And love your castle!!
Ned
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I've been listening to Alfonso Marin's and Valeria Mignaco CD Clear or
Cloudy. A true pleasure. Their performances are convincing
beyond question of the greatness of Dowland's and his contemporary's
lute songs. A perfect marriage of voice and instrument. Thank you
Alfonso and
Thanks for the sites of Jody Fisher's guitar playing. Jazz guitar has
long been one of my favorite instruments, and Jody is a master. Very
interesting was the difference in his sound and phrasing when he went
from finger picking to plectrum picking. Each technique has its own
No problem listening with my PC. I did have to use the second link,
however, and to put the password in a couple of times before the page
opened.
Ned
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Thank you David and Kidney for your suggestions. I know I installed
the bulk upload gears, David, and thought the plugin was also
installed, but will check. Will continue to try things suggested and
see how far I get. How many uploads I will do to youtube I don't
know, but not
Thank you, Alfonso. I listened to three selections and bought the CD.
That's about as positive a commentary as I can make.
Best, Ned
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Thanks - well done, Val. Enjoyed the 'lute day' recital post also.
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I thought I would put a short piece on you tube, but have come up with
an upload error twice and upload aborted. Any ideas why? I've opened
my video from my Zoom Q3 with Quick Time Plus and sent the file to 'My
Documents'. I see no problem with the file when viewing it with Quick
Thanks, David. I tried the bulk upload and did like the fact that I
could see the progress. But the problem now is that the sound is out
of sync with the video - the video begins well before the sound.
Somehow when I edit the dead space at the beginnng and end of the video
in
If I recall correctly, my ophtamologist determines what my prescription
is BEFORE dilating my pupils. I believe the dilation is simply done to
enable him to more easily look into the eye for any problems within the
eye (such as with the optic nerve or the maculae).
Ned
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As a wearer of progressives, I thought I'd like to get a pair of
mid-range glasses just for reading music. They did work fine, but I
sometimes forgot to take them with me when playing with other people.
Eventually I decided that the difference between those and my
progressives
Thanks for the info, Mark. If you go I hope you'll tell us a bit about
it.
Ned
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Hi Wolfgang,
The nut on each of my lutes looks like ivory or bone - pure white. Do
I take it then that you use gut strings now? The sound and feel of gut
is addictive, I think. Unfortunately, the set of gut strings that I
have is too light in tension. Before ordering another
Hi Wolfgang,
Interesting to hear about your string and fret preferences. I'm
unfamiliar with those strings. On the cello I've tried many different
brands of strings, but changing strings there is only a matter of 4
strings. I don't look forward to changing 15 strings on my
Good to see your post here, Joseph. While I was really drawn into the
feel and sound of gut, I would always want at least one instrument on
hand strung with synthetic, I believe. I enjoy the variety of having
different instruments, and also different stringing, to play on.
Ned
Thanks for that information regarding string measuring, Dana. The
slide caliper sounds like a good way to go. (My micrometer has a
smaller handle within the handle which is ratcheted so that when
measuring squishing doesn't - or ideally shouldn't - occur).
Ned
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David's suggestion of the Zoom H2 and Kodak minicam sounds like a good
one. Alternatively, there is the option of the Zoom Q3. I paid $249
for mine; it does both video and audio. The sound seems to be very
good and likewise the video. (I listen with a high quality pair of
My experieince with two lutes of slightly different set-up seems to
indicate that fret thickness has an influence on the player's ability
to play barred chords cleanly. So I wonder if you experienced players
are careful in choosing a lute with a particular height of strings at
the
Choosing a musical instrument seems to me to be a tricky thing. For
years I owned two cellos. After playing one for a few months I would
switch and really like the new one. A few months later and I would
rediscover the things I likes about the other one. In a way, it was a
I agree with your advocation of blind testing, David. Having been
involved with audio and audiophiles for many years, I've never agreed
with the view that blind testing is not useful in evaluating audio
components. Most, if not all, of us, overestimate our ability to
remain
Michael,
Some museums are willing to let you look at instruments in storage if
you tell them you are a player or builder, or otherwise have some
particular interest in the instruments. I got to see a lot of
instruments not on display at the Smithsonian due to this curtesy.
It sounds like these compositions may have been pre-cursors to Charles
Ives!
Ned
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Thanks for the information about the wonderful concert, David. A rare
opportunity, I suspect. I've little hope that they'll get down to my
part of the country. I would love to hear Jakob's Rauwold instrument
in person but will have to settle for a CD. I wonder how the
Thanks and congratulations - I'm amazed and in awe!
Ned
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A lovely forest, Stefan. In this country (USA) developers wield a lot
of power because they have a lot of money and they always talk about
the jobs they will create and how the local economy will benefit from
their development. It takes a very widespread and well organized
For playing with a second person (a lutenist would be nice) or in
ensembles, I wouldn't want to be without Orlandus Lassus, songs without
text, opus 13-24 (two parts); Tielman Susato, Dances from 1551 (mostly
4 parts); Petrucci's Harmonice Musices Odhecaton (mostly three or four
. . . has to lesson to Christmas songs in the lessons for the coming
two months.
Our sympathy is with you, David.
Ned
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Meanwhile, big names in our field try to get everything to sound
even.
Since my interest in the lute and early music has only recently been
re-awakened, most of my lute and early music recordings are from the
1960-70s. As I hear more recent recordings in our field, I'll listen
Hi Chris,
Thanks for bearing with my lack of experience listening to recent EM
recordings. I'm intigued by what you say and will be doing more
listening. I think that the high cost of getting an orchestra into a
studio for recording has resulted in a good thing for later
I've not yet put myself playing on line, but rather hope that one day
I'll feel confident enough to do so. I doubt that I'll ever have the
equipment necessary to edit myself. But I also wonder if I would want
to do that. I think now (will my views change?) that if I'm not able
to
The rockers. . .view an overly-produced-sounding-recording as some
kind of inauthentic representation of the genre. . .
Unless a rock recording is from a live performance, this seems to me an
ingenuous view. Even on a performance stage, rock musicians are
totally reliant on
Dan, I did not know David Phillips, but Joseph Iadone was my
introduction to the lute. Did you also know him?
Ned
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The Smithson String Quartet (of the Smithsonian Institution) has
recorded Op. 18 on original instruments. Very fine playing and very
nicely recorded.
Ned
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Not only was I there, but it was my house!
Ah, then thanks for not only posting the video, but for recording it
(or having it recorded). From what I could see you have a lovely space
for presenting concerts. I couldn't help noticing a high-end speaker
behind the performers
Thanks for posting the McFarlane Rosenfield youtube site, DS (were
you there?). Really wonderful playing with a great rapport between the
two.
Ned
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Doe anyone here know of an early music forum in the USA? Doing a
search, I find several in different areas of England seemingly designed
to discuss the early music scene in those specific areas, but none in
the USA. Some of the questions/observations I have about the part
music I
If the composer's intent was to trigger our memories of sounds in
nature - such as flocks of vocal birds and barking dogs - I would say
he succeeded (at least in my case). But I prefer the natural sounds.
Ned
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Yes, 1st bow definitely is a better player than 2nd bow and 3rd bow.
But he's also got a much better sounding instrument. Probably from the
golden age of styrofoam - the 1940s - and from the Dow Chemical
factory.
Ned
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To the guitarist who posted that he's looking for a lute, how about a
vihuela? There are two for sale on the dartmouth lutes-for-sale page.
A bit over $2000. Affordable?
Ned
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Thanks for the report and the pictures, Thomas. It sounds like a good
time was had by all in a very lovely setting. Glad to hear too that
the concert was a success. Good music, good wine, and congenial people
- what could be better?
Ned
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As Chris said, don't give up Luther. I found two very nice instruments
on Wayne's list at good prices (I have an instrument on order from Dan
Larson). But before I found those instruments, I did a lot of
practicing on a guitar using lute technique as best I could from some
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