Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
On Martedì, giu 8, 2004, at 07:10 Europe/Rome, Jon Murphy wrote: What is re-entrant tuning. reentrant tuning is when the strings you would normally expect to be lower are actually higher in pitch - nearer to the 1st string than the last. in other words the strings don't run in a progressive order from high to low. now i've got one for you: what's a demisemiquaver? as for really bad deals and someone borrowing my address to do who knows what with it: i'm reliably informed that the best way to avoid this is to not send emails to anyone with a windows computer who doesn't use anti-virus and who opens enclosures without being 'very careful'. can i see a show of hands, please... - bill
Re: Moot (off topic)
A great book! I really do like Kiplings books but only know them in german so I cannot help with quotes. Thomas Am Die, 2004-06-08 um 06.53 schrieb Jon Murphy: Yes, but in this country if you ask someone: Do you like Kipling?, you'll get an answer: I don't know, how does one kiple?. Hence the dictum. RT Was this from the Man Who Would Be King? His mistake was not knowing the country he was in. JWM -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re-entrant tuning
Dear Sean and Craig, I think a,c,e,a was a slip of the computer keyboard. (Assuming a 1st course tuned to a') Mudarra gives two tunings for the guitar: a',e',c',g and a',e',c',f. (I prefer to list the strings starting with the 1st course, i.e. the one highest in pitch.) It all depends what you mean be re-entrant, doesn't it. For me, a re-entrant tuning is one where the open strings give progressively higher notes as they move towards the 1st course. This means that the modern guitar and violin do not have re-entrant tunings, but the five-string banjo tuning is re-entrant. Things get more confusing where instruments have pairs of strings tuned an octave apart, like the lowest courses of the lute. Strictly speaking the individual strings do not get progressively higher, because of the high octave strings of an octave pair. However, as far as I am concerned, one ignores these high octaves for the purpose of establishing whether or not a tuning is re-entrant. This means that the tuning of an archlute (first six courses = g',d'd',aa,ff,cc,Gg) is not re-entrant in spite of the octave pair Gg, whereas the tuning of a theorbo (first six courses = a,e,b,g,d,A) would be re-entrant. In other words, you ignore the presence of a high octave string. The exception would be where both strings of a course are tuned to the high octave. This means that the baroque guitar tuning e',bb,gg,d'd,aA would not be re-entrant, whereas the tuning e',bb,gg,d'd,aa would be re-entrant. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. - Original Message - From: lutesmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute society [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 5:36 PM Subject: Re: reentrant tuning At 07:56 AM 6/7/04, you wrote: Actually I meant what I said. Without belaboring the point, whether you think of the tuning of 16c 4 cs guitar tunings (g,c,e,a or a,c,e,a) as reentrant or not depends on if you think of the bourdon as the primary or secondary string. Craig, Can you cite any examples of 16th cent guitar music that uses the bourdon as a secondary string? In light of later guitar practice it is interesting to imagine that 4th course as an octave higher but LeRoy and Morlaye consistently treat it as the lowest note available*. Sometimes they even tuned it down a step for a little more reach. I haven't gone through all the vihuelist books yet so you may know something I don't...and should. And tell me more of this a,c,e,a tuning. Where does this turn up? Sean *admittedly the hurdygurdy-like Branles de Poitou in LeRoy's 3rd book could go either way but would hardly justify restringing the guitar. Assuming that you are using a one at all. (The practice of using a bourdon for the low g or a does seem pretty much universal.) Craig
Tablature rhythm signs
Dear All, While examining the Scolar Press facsimile of Campion's My sweetest Lesbia to be able to reply to Peter Nightingales' query, my mind turned to note values. It is perfectly clear from this song, or indeed any other song from this period, that the tablature rhythm sign |\ | | means one minim (or half-note). I find it immensely frustrating that so many people either misunderstand or choose to ignore that relationship. It was fashionable some years ago to halve note values when transcribing lute tablature into staff notation. Diana Poulton and Basil Lam do so in _The Collected Lute Music of John Dowland_ (London: Faber Music Limited, 1974). In their edition that minim sign is transcribed as a crotchet. I have the second edition (1978), which includes a few extra pieces which came to light after the first edition had been published. In this newer edition the editors no longer adhere to their policy of halving note values. Nos 93-6 have the correct transcription, nos 97-8 have halved note values, nos 99-100 are correct, and nos 101-3 have halved note values. It is a vertitable dog's dinner, at least as far as the rhythmic values are concerned. Pascale Boquet, in her _Approche du Luth Renaissance_ (n.p.: n.p., 1987) goes one stage worse. She confusingly regards that same minim sign as a quaver (quarter note). Alain Veylit with Stringwalker and Francesco Tribioli with Fronimo both get the relationship wrong in their computer software. I think both their programmes are excellent in their different ways, and have proved immensely useful, yet both make the mistake of automatically halving note values. Stringwalker can create instant transcriptions of tablature, but with the option of halved or quartered note values, not the correct value. Fronimo can reproduce lute songs, but the singer's notes have half the value of the notes for the lute. One is left with the dilemma: do I give the wrong note values to the singer or to the lute? It is confusing performing lute songs prepared with Fronimo, since the lutenist reads his tablature with one set of note values, while glancing up to the singer's part, which has a totally different set of note values. -o-O-o- To show how fashions have changed over the years, here are a few books where the value of tablature rhythm signs has been halved. Note the date of publication: Thomas Morley, _The First Book of Consort Lessons_, ed. Sydney Beck (New York: C. F. Peters Corporation for The New York Public Library, 1959) _Jacobean Consort Music_, ed. Thurston Dart and William Coates, Musica Britannica 9 (London: Stainer and Bell Ltd for the Royal Musical Association, 2nd edn 1962) Anthony Holborne, _The Complete Works of Anthony Holborne_, ed. Masakata Kanazawa, Harvard Publications in Music 1 (Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 1967) Contrast this with more recent editions, where the tablature rhythm signs have been transcribed with their correct value. Again note the date of publication: Alfonso Ferrabosco the Elder, _Opera Omnia_, Corpus Mensurabilis Musicae 96, vol. 9 (Neuhausen-Stuttgart: Hänssler-Verlag for the American Institute of Musicology, 1988) _Collected English Lutenist Partsongs: 1_, ed. David Greer, Musica Britannica 53 (London: Stainer and Bell for the Musica Britannica Trust established by the Royal Musical Association, 1987) Francis Cutting, _Collected Lute Music_, ed. Jan W. J. Burgers (Lübeck: Tree Edition, 2002) -o-O-o- Older editions tend to have triple time treated differently from duple time. This results in a somewhat anomalous transcription in _Chansons au Luth_ ed. Lionel de la Laurencie (Paris: Heugel, 1976), p. 164. At the top of the page the music is in triple time, and the tablature rhythm signs are transcribed with halved note values. Half way down the page there is a change of meter to C with a slash, and thereafter the rhythm signs are given their correct value. It's all rather confusing really. I leave the final word to Thomas Robinson. On page B2v of _The Schoole of Musicke (London, 1603) he writes: |\ | | A Minim. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy.
Re: Tablature rhythm signs
Dear Stewart, many thanks for your excellent posting. Your mails are always very interesting and of great value! You are absolutely right, that most of the modern editions etc. give wrong impression of the original notation. There are also some charts which give the corrcet relationship between tablature signs and music notes. (As example comes into my mind the so called Arpinus Tab., or London, British Libr., Ms. Sloane 1021, wrongly so called Stobaus ms.) It would be great if editors of lute music and makers of computer software would take more notice of your posting. Best wishes, Peter Kiraly - Peter Király Glockenstr. 34 D-67655 Kaiserslautern T/Fax. (00)49 631 69866 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: N*geria Scams
Just a small correction to something Arthur said: The message was a genuine warning from Chris Goodwin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), administrator of the Lute Society of Great Britain (as they now call themselves). In fact the Lute Society based in the UK, of which Chris Goodwin is secretary, is called just that: the Lute Society, plain and simple, and has no plans to change the name. In fact it is especially appropriate since, as Chris tells me, more than 50% of members live overseas. Simon Lambert Oxford, England
Re: My Sweetest Lesbia
Dear Stewart, I understand what you are saying and it makes sense. As a matter of fact, this is precisely how I count Campions' Fire, Fire (Third Book of Ayres, XX). However, there is a difference: Fire, Fire goes from C to 3 and, whereas My sweetest Lesbia goes from 3 to C-slash. The implication is that there is no difference between C and C-slash. Or do you have a different solution of Fire? One of the possibilities I mentioned, which would have made C and C-slash different, was to play the C-slash section twice as fast as you suggest. However, in terms of the music and the lyrics this makes no sense at all: according to my taste, night might be longer than sleep, paine and loue, or the same, but not shorter. Thanks and regards, Peter. PS If anyone is interested, I have tab versions of both songs. On Tue, 8 Jun 2004, Stewart McCoy wrote: Dear Peter, For those who are unfamiliar with this lute song, Campion's My sweetest Lesbia is the first song in Rosseter's _A Booke of Ayres_ (London, 1601). As you say, it starts in 3 time. The lute tablature starts like this: |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ ||\ |\ |\ |\ |||. |\ | _eca__a___ _aa__|_a_e__|_ _|___a__|_ _cb__|_c|_ _|___c__|_ _|__|_ After the C-slash the tablature continues like this: |\ |\ | |\ | | _a_a___ _e___c___e___|_ _f___f_c__d__|_ _e__e|_ _c___a___c___|_ _|_ It is important to understand what the rhythmic relationship is between the two sections. There are times when it can be difficult to decide, but in this case I think it is very straightforward. Something has to stay the same from one section to the other, and by and large it is the slow pulse which remains constant. This means that the beat of the dotted minim in the 3 section is the same as the semibreve in the C-slash section. In other words |\ | | = | |. | To get the proportion right in performance, it is important to feel that slow pulse, which means counting in dotted minims at the start. So for the first two bars |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ ||\ |\ |\ |\ |||. |\ | _eca__a___ _aa__|_a_e__|_ _|___a__|_ _cb__|_c|_ _|___c__|_ _|__|_ count one, one, not one, two, three, one, two, three. When you come to the C-slash section, the first two chords last as long as a dotted minim of the previous section. It helps to keep counting the same old One as before. This means that you would count One and for those first two chords of the new section. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. - Original Message - From: Peter Nightingale [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 5:38 PM Subject: My Sweetest Lesbia Dear List, Campion's My Sweetest Lesbia is mostly in 3/4 (indicated by a 3 in the original tab), but the last two measures are in 4/4 (or perhaps 2/2 would better reflect the C-slash in the original). How should this be played. Does the duration of the 1/4 notes stay the same throughout, or should the tempo speed up by a factor 4/3 so that the time between down beats stays the same? If neither, then what? Peter. -- the next auto-quote is: The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them. (Lois McMaster Bujold) /\/\ Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
On Martedì, giu 8, 2004, at 07:10 Europe/Rome, Jon Murphy wrote: What is re-entrant tuning. --I thought re-entrant tuning was when you stop the other guys from playing so you get a second chance to tune. --In a solo setting, re-entrant tuning means to stop mid-way through a piece to adjust the tuning so that difficult fingerings are made easier to play. Jimmy Hendrix used it a lot, but because he was a sloppy player, he did not bother to stop playing. --Re-entrant tuning is to be distinguished from recursive tuning: recursive tuning consists in successively tuning the same string to all the pitches needed for your instrument. --To tune a lute: tighten the chanterelle carefully until it breaks, then unwind a quarter turn. Finally, tune all the other strings on the chanterelle. --Tuning: the act by which a perfectly good instrument is made to sound totally off. --Temperament: the state of mind or mood that follows an attempt to tune your instrument. Traditionally, among lutenists, temperaments go from choleric to depressed (or melancholic). --Equal temperament: a state of persistent despondency following many failed attempts to tune. Sometimes results in an attempt to tune all the strings to the same pitch to make it easier. --Chromatic scale: the results of applying different colors to all the courses on your archlute so as to give a chance to your right hand to know which one is which (see also under Rainbow coalition) --High-fifth: what two lutenists give to each other after tuning to each other. --Thumb under: what 2 lutenists get for failing to tune successfully to each other --Re-entrant tuning is also used to describe the particular sound of a lute hitting the ground really hard after yet another failed attempt at tuning it - probably by analogy with a re-entry into the atmosphere. (see also under sonic boom) --D minor tuning: as opposed to major tuning, i.e. when you only bother to tune all courses up from the fourth one, carefully leaving the bourdons untouched. --Octave tuning: describes the attempt at replacing a broken bass string with fishing line --Sonic boom: the sound made by a theorbo that was tuned just a tad too high, thereby separating the neck from the bowl. --Pythagorean ratios: an act of revenge taken by mathematicians on musicians --Tuning with gut is generally more difficult because it involves letting your instinct tell you exactly where 415MHz is as well as chose what gauges to use for each course. --Ashcroft tuning: designates a long period of silence in a classical music concert hall. --Ashcroft tuning (2): the attempt to tune your lute as if it were a 5-string banjo in order to be able to apply for an NEH grant. (generally followed by a sonic boom) --Tuned in fourths: when you only bother to tune every fourth string --Tuned in fifths: no one is lazy enough in the lute world to do it, but widely in use in the violin family of instruments If you don't get all the jokes above, you have not been playing the lute long enough... Alain
My Sweetest Lesbia
Dear Peter, Campion's Fire, fire is similar to My sweetest Lesbia, in that both have changes of meter. Here I think the dotted minim of the words Come Trent and Humber is the same as the minim of the preceding section, and the same as the minim of the following section, And if you can. It would be wrong to keep the crotchet constant throughout. The use of C and C-slash, and 3 and 3/2, was often pretty vague, and often one simply has to use one's common sense, bearing in mind always, that it is usually the slow pulse which remains constant, rather than the value of specific notes. In fact Campion's Fire, fire is a good example of their cavalier attitude towards mensuration signs. The first and third sections are both marked with C in the Cantus, and C-slash in the Bassus. The lute happens to have C-slash, but it could as well have had either or neither. When changing from duple time to triple time you generally have a choice of tripla and sesquialtera: 1) Tripla: You have three times as many notes as you had before for the same pulse - three new minims last the same amount of time as one old minim. 2) Sesquialtera: three new minims last the same amount of time as two old minims. Strictly speaking you would have 3/1 for tripla, and 3/2 for sesquialtera, but more often than not they simply put 3, and you have to make your own mind up whether they meant tripla or sesquialtera. Confusion with regard to the use of these signs prompted Thomas Ravenscroft to publish _A Briefe Discourse of the True Use of Charact'ring the Degrees_ (London, 1614). At the beginning of the book are dedicatory verses, including one by Thomas Campion and one by John Dowland. I rather like the one by Dowland. When he says Perfect and More, he means dividing notes into three (e.g. one semibreve = three minims); when he says Imperfect and Lesse, he means dividing notes into two (e.g. one semibreve = two minims). His Number, Circle, and Poynt refer to the various mensuration signs which had evolved over the centuries. Here is Dowland's dedicatory verse: IOHN DOWLAND Bachelar of Musicke, and Lutenist to the Kings Sacred Maiestie, in commendation of this Worke. Figurate Musicke doth in each Degree Require it Notes, of severall Quantity; By Perfect, or Imperfect Measure chang'd: And that of More, or Lesse, whose Markes were rang'd By Number, Circle, and Poynt: but various use Of unskild Composers did induce Confusion, which made muddy and obscure, What first Invention fram'd most cleere, and pure. These, (worthy RAVENSCROFT) are restrain'd by Thee To one fixt Forme: and that approv'd by Me. -o-O-o- Best wishes, Stewart. - Original Message - From: Peter Nightingale [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Stewart McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Lute Net [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 5:06 PM Subject: Re: My Sweetest Lesbia Dear Stewart, I understand what you are saying and it makes sense. As a matter of fact, this is precisely how I count Campions' Fire, Fire (Third Book of Ayres, XX). However, there is a difference: Fire, Fire goes from C to 3 and, whereas My sweetest Lesbia goes from 3 to C-slash. The implication is that there is no difference between C and C-slash. Or do you have a different solution of Fire? One of the possibilities I mentioned, which would have made C and C-slash different, was to play the C-slash section twice as fast as you suggest. However, in terms of the music and the lyrics this makes no sense at all: according to my taste, night might be longer than sleep, paine and loue, or the same, but not shorter. Thanks and regards, Peter. PS If anyone is interested, I have tab versions of both songs.
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
Dear Alain, that's wonderful! You saved my evening after a particular hard day. I'm going to try to tune my lute now ... Cheers, Joachim Alain Veylit [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Martedì, giu 8, 2004, at 07:10 Europe/Rome, Jon Murphy wrote: What is re-entrant tuning. --I thought re-entrant tuning was when you stop the other guys from playing so you get a second chance to tune. --In a solo setting, re-entrant tuning means to stop mid-way through a piece to adjust the tuning so that difficult fingerings are made easier to play. Jimmy Hendrix used it a lot, but because he was a sloppy player, he did not bother to stop playing. --Re-entrant tuning is to be distinguished from recursive tuning: recursive tuning consists in successively tuning the same string to all the pitches needed for your instrument. --To tune a lute: tighten the chanterelle carefully until it breaks, then unwind a quarter turn. Finally, tune all the other strings on the chanterelle. --Tuning: the act by which a perfectly good instrument is made to sound totally off. --Temperament: the state of mind or mood that follows an attempt to tune your instrument. Traditionally, among lutenists, temperaments go from choleric to depressed (or melancholic). --Equal temperament: a state of persistent despondency following many failed attempts to tune. Sometimes results in an attempt to tune all the strings to the same pitch to make it easier. --Chromatic scale: the results of applying different colors to all the courses on your archlute so as to give a chance to your right hand to know which one is which (see also under Rainbow coalition) --High-fifth: what two lutenists give to each other after tuning to each other. --Thumb under: what 2 lutenists get for failing to tune successfully to each other --Re-entrant tuning is also used to describe the particular sound of a lute hitting the ground really hard after yet another failed attempt at tuning it - probably by analogy with a re-entry into the atmosphere. (see also under sonic boom) --D minor tuning: as opposed to major tuning, i.e. when you only bother to tune all courses up from the fourth one, carefully leaving the bourdons untouched. --Octave tuning: describes the attempt at replacing a broken bass string with fishing line --Sonic boom: the sound made by a theorbo that was tuned just a tad too high, thereby separating the neck from the bowl. --Pythagorean ratios: an act of revenge taken by mathematicians on musicians --Tuning with gut is generally more difficult because it involves letting your instinct tell you exactly where 415MHz is as well as chose what gauges to use for each course. --Ashcroft tuning: designates a long period of silence in a classical music concert hall. --Ashcroft tuning (2): the attempt to tune your lute as if it were a 5-string banjo in order to be able to apply for an NEH grant. (generally followed by a sonic boom) --Tuned in fourths: when you only bother to tune every fourth string --Tuned in fifths: no one is lazy enough in the lute world to do it, but widely in use in the violin family of instruments If you don't get all the jokes above, you have not been playing the lute long enough... Alain -- Dr. Joachim Luedtke Frühlingsstraße 9a D - 93164 Laaber Tlf.: ++49 / +9498 / 905 188 Mobil: 0172 / 275 49 48 Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
Charles, Hence the definition of the Nigerian scam: an out-of-tune one-string lute from that country... Alain PS: Ashcroft tuning(3): the act of clipping strings on the wrong side of the bridge. At 10:04 AM 6/8/2004, Charles Browne wrote: recursive tuning would certainly be useful for a nigerian single stringed lute . It sounds a bit like the Theramin! Charles -Original Message- From: Alain Veylit [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 June 2004 17:43 To: bill; Jon Murphy Cc: James A Stimson; lute society Subject: Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning On Martedì, giu 8, 2004, at 07:10 Europe/Rome, Jon Murphy wrote: What is re-entrant tuning. --I thought re-entrant tuning was when you stop the other guys from playing so you get a second chance to tune. --In a solo setting, re-entrant tuning means to stop mid-way through a piece to adjust the tuning so that difficult fingerings are made easier to play. Jimmy Hendrix used it a lot, but because he was a sloppy player, he did not bother to stop playing. --Re-entrant tuning is to be distinguished from recursive tuning: recursive tuning consists in successively tuning the same string to all the pitches needed for your instrument. --To tune a lute: tighten the chanterelle carefully until it breaks, then unwind a quarter turn. Finally, tune all the other strings on the chanterelle. --Tuning: the act by which a perfectly good instrument is made to sound totally off. --Temperament: the state of mind or mood that follows an attempt to tune your instrument. Traditionally, among lutenists, temperaments go from choleric to depressed (or melancholic). --Equal temperament: a state of persistent despondency following many failed attempts to tune. Sometimes results in an attempt to tune all the strings to the same pitch to make it easier. --Chromatic scale: the results of applying different colors to all the courses on your archlute so as to give a chance to your right hand to know which one is which (see also under Rainbow coalition) --High-fifth: what two lutenists give to each other after tuning to each other. --Thumb under: what 2 lutenists get for failing to tune successfully to each other --Re-entrant tuning is also used to describe the particular sound of a lute hitting the ground really hard after yet another failed attempt at tuning it - probably by analogy with a re-entry into the atmosphere. (see also under sonic boom) --D minor tuning: as opposed to major tuning, i.e. when you only bother to tune all courses up from the fourth one, carefully leaving the bourdons untouched. --Octave tuning: describes the attempt at replacing a broken bass string with fishing line --Sonic boom: the sound made by a theorbo that was tuned just a tad too high, thereby separating the neck from the bowl. --Pythagorean ratios: an act of revenge taken by mathematicians on musicians --Tuning with gut is generally more difficult because it involves letting your instinct tell you exactly where 415MHz is as well as chose what gauges to use for each course. --Ashcroft tuning: designates a long period of silence in a classical music concert hall. --Ashcroft tuning (2): the attempt to tune your lute as if it were a 5-string banjo in order to be able to apply for an NEH grant. (generally followed by a sonic boom) --Tuned in fourths: when you only bother to tune every fourth string --Tuned in fifths: no one is lazy enough in the lute world to do it, but widely in use in the violin family of instruments If you don't get all the jokes above, you have not been playing the lute long enough... Alain
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
--Tuned in fourths: when you only bother to tune every fourth string --Tuned in fifths: no one is lazy enough in the lute world to do it, but widely in use in the violin family of instruments Lutes are never tuned in seconds because it usually takes much longer than that. Sean
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
Am Die, 2004-06-08 um 22.33 schrieb lutesmith: Lutes are never tuned in seconds because it usually takes much longer than that. Wrong! Ask Stefan how (if ever) I tune my 10-course. It's *very* fast (I told him I would have bought it tuned and it would stay in tune since then. All a matter of definition - if it sounds out of tune I'll say it's a certain comma meantone) Thomas -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: Tablature rhythm signs
Stewart McCoy wrote: .. The note known as a long would not normally feature in tablature, because tablature was nearly always barred. If a very long note was required (long or otherwise), it would be notated as lots of shorter notes tied together from one bar to the next. Milan uses the longa and it looks - like a longa :) Rainer adS
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
Alain Veylit wrote: Is a fifth really a unit of measure for whisky? And any other liquor, including wine. 750 ml is close enough to a fifth of a gallon not to worry about the difference. I don't get the Ashcroft jokes, BTW.
Tablature rhythm signs
Dear Rainer, You're quite right, of course. Milan uses a long for the final note of his pieces. Whether he means the last chord to be held for the full length of a long, or it is a way of showing the end of the piece and you let the notes ring on for as long as necessary, is neither here nor there. He uses a long. However, he notates rhythm with standard staff notation rhythms (crotchets, quavers, etc.), not flags. As far as I know, there isn't a tablature flag for a long. The older the music, the more likely it is to find long note values, so I've just had a look at Bossinensis' songs. Where the singer's staff notation part ends with a long, the lutenist's tablature has a pause sign instead. I've not looked very far, but my guess is that longs were generally confined to final bars, where the exact length of the note was not very important. All the best, Stewart. - Original Message - From: Rainer aus dem Spring [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute Net [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 9:08 PM Subject: Re: Tablature rhythm signs Stewart McCoy wrote: ... The note known as a long would not normally feature in tablature, because tablature was nearly always barred. If a very long note was required (long or otherwise), it would be notated as lots of shorter notes tied together from one bar to the next. Milan uses the longa and it looks - like a longa :) Rainer adS
Lute Society was Re: N*geria Scams
Yes, I saw the designation Lute Society of Great Britiain from someone on this list, and thought the Society had altered its name. I can't remember who it was, but it was someone I thought would be in a position to know. When I wrote to Chris, I asked. He said there had been no change. I too see no reason to change, since the Lute Society was the first on the scene and surely has always intended to serve the whole lute world. And the officers and administrator have been doing a commendable job for all of us. And back in the 1950s, who would have thought there would be so many lutenists that national societies would be necessary. The most localized society is surely the Dutch Lute Society. Nearly 100% of the some 200 members live in Holland. The last time I checked, sveral years ago, only 10 persons lived outside of Holland. Could that mean that the Netherlands has more lutenists per square mile than any other country in the Western World?g arthur. ===Simon said== Just a small correction to something Arthur said: The message was a genuine warning from Chris Goodwin (lutesocol.com), administrator of the Lute Society of Great Britain (as they now call themselves). In fact the Lute Society based in the UK, of which Chris Goodwin is secretary, is called just that: the Lute Society, plain and simple, and has no plans to change the name. In fact it is especially appropriate since, as Chris tells me, more than 50% of members live overseas. Simon Lambert Oxford, England
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
Howard, all, Serious and sincere apologies for getting the giggles on that tuning thing and for all the bad jokes - The Ashcroft references come from a WEB page I read recently detailing some comments he made regarding Classical music in general and opera in particular: Ashcroft seems to consider that public subsidies for Classical music are wasted on a small clique of people who drive their Mercedes to the concert and therefore should not need to get any money from the government. Rather than reviving a heated political debate, I leave you with three links that you are free to follow or not, the first one against Ashcroft's cultural politics, the other two apparently in support of his views, although they read like an ultra-liberal caricature of a sane conservative agenda as I imagine that to be... http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/enemies.htm http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ashpic1.html http://www.hscb.org/res-chats-ashcroft.htm Please someone tell me that this Homeland Security Cultural Bureau is indeed a joke perpetrated by ultra-liberals to caricature and defame our A.G.'s true and worthy goals - here is how they describe their role: What is the Homeland Security Cultural Bureau? You can find out more by visiting the About Us section. But in short, HSCB is protecting the interests of the country's national security by employing efforts to direct and guide the parameters of cultural production. Cultural production serving national security?? Shudder - I would rather trim the strings of my lute on the wrong side of the bridge than to become a guided parameter in that cultural war... Alain At 03:29 PM 6/8/04, Howard Posner wrote: Alain Veylit wrote: Is a fifth really a unit of measure for whisky? And any other liquor, including wine. 750 ml is close enough to a fifth of a gallon not to worry about the difference. I don't get the Ashcroft jokes, BTW.
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
Alright, ooopsie, the Cultural bureau is a hoax... I had to go all the way to the Job opportunities page to figure it out for sure... Who knows: the beautiful song in the second link might be a fake too. Have the Sauceks taken over the whole WEB? Alain At 05:48 PM 6/8/04, Alain Veylit wrote: Howard, all, Serious and sincere apologies for getting the giggles on that tuning thing and for all the bad jokes - The Ashcroft references come from a WEB page I read recently detailing some comments he made regarding Classical music in general and opera in particular: Ashcroft seems to consider that public subsidies for Classical music are wasted on a small clique of people who drive their Mercedes to the concert and therefore should not need to get any money from the government. Rather than reviving a heated political debate, I leave you with three links that you are free to follow or not, the first one against Ashcroft's cultural politics, the other two apparently in support of his views, although they read like an ultra-liberal caricature of a sane conservative agenda as I imagine that to be... http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/enemies.htm http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ashpic1.html http://www.hscb.org/res-chats-ashcroft.htm Please someone tell me that this Homeland Security Cultural Bureau is indeed a joke perpetrated by ultra-liberals to caricature and defame our A.G.'s true and worthy goals - here is how they describe their role: What is the Homeland Security Cultural Bureau? You can find out more by visiting the About Us section. But in short, HSCB is protecting the interests of the country's national security by employing efforts to direct and guide the parameters of cultural production. Cultural production serving national security?? Shudder - I would rather trim the strings of my lute on the wrong side of the bridge than to become a guided parameter in that cultural war... Alain At 03:29 PM 6/8/04, Howard Posner wrote: Alain Veylit wrote: Is a fifth really a unit of measure for whisky? And any other liquor, including wine. 750 ml is close enough to a fifth of a gallon not to worry about the difference. I don't get the Ashcroft jokes, BTW.
