Re: [Mailman-Developers] HyperKitty login

2012-05-31 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Richard Wackerbarth writes: Stephen, social_auth is a django app (Think library) that handles OpenID, BrowserID, Google, Twitter, etc. authentication. Yeah, I think all the mentors and most of the other subscribers here can figure that out. The questions are which one? (just an URL will

[Mailman-Developers] HyperKitty login

2012-05-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Aamir Khan writes: Hi everybody! First task I am going to do for my GSoC project is to have login authentication mechanism for HyperKitty users. I have had discussion with few mailman developers about it. I am planning to wrap up social_auth into mm_ui_auth django application. Both

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Merge] lp:~wacky/postorius/csrf into lp:postorius

2012-05-22 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Richard Wackerbarth writes: Yes, but one of the design points of Django is that, without a great deal of effort, the user can customize his site URLs in any manner. Further, doing so follows the DRY principle. Embedding the actual text stream /postorius/ in templates, particularly

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Merge] lp:~wacky/postorius/csrf into lp:postorius

2012-05-21 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Richard Wackerbarth writes: Having a main branch implies that the organization is imposing its idea of the right way. In some sense true, but few organizations have either the resources or inclination to maintain and support more than one right way at a time. History shows that parts

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Merge] lp:~wacky/postorius/csrf into lp:postorius

2012-05-21 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: I don't want to side track too long into a vcs discussion, so I'll respond here and then you can have the last word. :) On May 21, 2012, at 12:21 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: No VCS requires rebase, or removing commits from history. Agreed, but just about

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Merge] lp:~wacky/postorius/csrf into lp:postorius

2012-05-21 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Richard Wackerbarth writes: I believe that it may be your intention to have kept postorius hidden. But I don't think that the actual implementation has accomplished that. Please see ~mailman-coders/postorius/trunk : /src/postorius/templates/postorius/base.html (revision 65) at lines

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Merge] lp:~wacky/postorius/csrf into lp:postorius

2012-05-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: I personally think that rebase is an abomination generally required by workflow policies that try to overcome tool deficiencies. By not *requiring* rebase (it is of course possible), it means that all your intermediate commits are preserved No VCS requires rebase,

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics

2012-05-19 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
George Chatzisofroniou writes: Author This model represents an author of the mailing list. It mostly keeps track of the number of postings and number of threads started. It has the following fields: - authorid – IntegerField AFAIK every Django object has an internal ID. Why do

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics

2012-05-19 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
George Chatzisofroniou writes: Hello Patrick, On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter p...@state-of-mind.de wrote: Like with most statistical data I mostly see the figures being used to give statements on quantity - top poster, number of threads etc. Do you think it

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics

2012-05-05 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Terri Oda writes: So... If AJAX is the fastest way to get some initial prototypes going, that's a good place to start. As the author of the original suggestion about AJAXing the charts, I don't actually think it is the easiest way. I think it's easier to just generate a fixed-size chart

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics

2012-05-04 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Richard Wackerbarth writes: I will take the blame for any misunderstanding in this area. There's no blame to be assigned, really, unless to me for being a busybody. :-) If George is making these plans while consulting his mentor, that's what this is all about (but he didn't say that, so I

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics

2012-05-04 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Richard Wackerbarth writes: Usually, a few people, who think that they understand the whole problem, make early design decisions that often become obstacles in the future. It is only after the prototype has been developed that others are able to point out weaknesses in the initial design.

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics

2012-05-04 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
George Chatzisofroniou writes: It's not clear to me why year views can't be generated as an aggregate of monthly data?  This would allow years to start with arbitrary months without too much redundancy. Generating the year views from monthly data is some more calculations while

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics

2012-05-03 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Hi George, Thanks for the report! A couple of quick comments: On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:04 AM, George Chatzisofroniou soph...@latthi.com wrote: I’m also thinking to rearrange the GSoC schedule a bit. I’ll start writing code on the bonding period, It's up to your coding mentors, but it's

Re: [Mailman-Developers] no documentation for Mailman 3.0

2012-05-02 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
This procedure has changed since the alphas but I guess the install doc hasn't been patched yet. python setup.py build_sphinx On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 12:00 PM, David d...@fiteyes.com wrote: Build the online docs by running::    % bin/docs ___

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Bug 985149] Add List-Post value to permalink hash input

2012-04-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Jeff Breidenbach j...@jab.org wrote: Is 4 bytes too short? Four characters is only about a million combinations. First collision is 50% likely at 1200 messages, and multi-million message databases are completely screwed. If we're willing to impose

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Bug 985149] Add List-Post value to permalink hash input

2012-04-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Thanks! On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 2:50 AM, Jeff Breidenbach j...@jab.org wrote: 0. Assume a 10 million message archive. 1. What percentage of permalinks need another click? 2. What percentage of permalinks will result in a list of more than 10 matches? Ignoring cross posts, for a 4 character

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Bug 985149] Add List-Post value to permalink hash input

2012-04-21 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 5:19 AM, Jeff Breidenbach j...@jab.org wrote: 2) The reason mail-archive.com uses List-Post and not List-Id in the calculation is because every list, RFC2369 compliant or not, has a concept of a posting address. That would be fine, except that in my personal practice

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Bug 985149] [NEW] Add List-Post value to permalink hash input

2012-04-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: I think the hash value should be opaque.  Jeff can perhaps elaborate his use-case but I don't think the List-ID needs to be (or frankly *should* be) extractable from the hash, but instead just needs to inform the hash value.

Re: [Mailman-Developers] From the creation of a ThreadID

2012-04-09 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 12:28 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: On Apr 09, 2012, at 07:10 AM, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: I support the concept of Stable URI. Should we attempt to push the stable URI concept as an RFC?  Does anybody (Murray perhaps) have the interest and time to do that?  

Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman / archive-ui / licensing questions

2012-04-08 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Blake Winton bwin...@mozilla.com wrote: On 08-04-12 19:24 , Mark Sapiro wrote: On 04/08/2012 04:14 PM, Blake Winton wrote: Would it work for everyone if David licensed the archiver to Mailman under the GPLv3+? It won't work for David. Well, that's not

Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman / archive-ui / licensing questions

2012-04-08 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 6:48 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: On Apr 02, 2012, at 08:04 PM, David Jeske wrote: Probably the only way I'd change my mind about that is if RMS personally told us that we could still treat the non-copyleft donation the same way we treat all the other code,

Re: [Mailman-Developers] From the creation of a ThreadID

2012-04-07 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Some Message-IDs will not have corresponding messages but that's always a problem with threading (see http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html, and RFC 5256). There are other problems with threading that need to be dealt with as well, such as References being

Re: [Mailman-Developers] From the creation of a ThreadID

2012-04-05 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 10:41 PM, Pierre-Yves Chibon pin...@pingoured.fr wrote: In HyperKitty to be able to easily retrieve from the database all the threads of a given month or just all the emails of a thread, I created a Field in the database called ThreadID. When I load the archives from

Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman / archive-ui / licensing questions

2012-04-04 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 3:56 PM, David Jeske dav...@gmail.com wrote: ...this discussion is all just about whether mailman wants to bundle (or reference) near-future updates to this stuff. I was hoping that rather than create my own separate OSS-y website and such for it, I could just hang out

Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman / archive-ui / licensing questions

2012-04-03 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 1:16 PM, David Jeske dav...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 3, 2012 8:14 PM, Bob Puff b...@nleaudio.com wrote: I think the majority of MM users will be simply using the RPM that comes with their distro, and there is a real benefit to stuff working right out of the box.  This

Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman / archive-ui / licensing questions

2012-04-03 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 3:58 AM, Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com wrote: From the talk about what it means to be a FSF project at the mailman sprint at pycon I don't think a non-FSF copyright assigned archiver would be bundled into mailman (Core). AFAIK there are no FSF projects, although

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC

2012-03-30 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Pierre-Yves Chibon pin...@pingoured.fr wrote: For the record, the current version of HyperKitty has moved from a notmuch backend to a mongo database allowing a much more flexible data storage scheme. Good to know! Is the source available?

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

2012-03-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: Mailman 3 itself requires unique Message-IDs. So? FWIW, I don't think I agree with that requirement (even RFC 5322 doesn't make it a MUST), but I'm not going to argue with you about Mailman 3 design, that's your pidgin. But

Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman / archive-ui / licensing questions

2012-03-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 1:00 PM, David Jeske dav...@gmail.com wrote: I started to talk to one of them about installing CSLA (or MHonArc, or anything really), and realized I should see if you folks are interested in a great bundled archiver, I'm personally interested, but that's not going to

Re: [Mailman-Developers] any interest in a new built-in web-archive? (i.e. pipermail replacement)

2012-03-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 4:04 PM, David Jeske dav...@gmail.com wrote: - Merging of forums, archives, newsgroups, and IMAP. You like to bite off the big ones eh? NNTP, then IMAP. Does anyone even use fat-mail-clients anymore? Yes, and yes. But I don't think anybody has really thought

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

2012-03-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry writes: I suspect that there will be plenty of mailing lists that get fed messages from programs, e.g. think vcs -commit diff lists.  Those programs can also be buggy, but again I'd prefer that Mailman not compromise on this issue for their sake. I predict you will eventually lose on

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

2012-03-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 3:55 AM, Shayan Md mdosha...@gmail.com wrote: Assuming that we have something like this(object-ID-addressable, If I am not wrong, mailman3 made it possible but not yet implemented as it's part of archiver), is it over ambitious to plan to implement indexer/searcher for

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

2012-03-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Shayan Md mdosha...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:05 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.orgwrote: And (2) search and retrieval may do a *lot* of message access, for example if you want to do data mining (see Ana from Spain's thread

Re: [Mailman-Developers] any interest in a new built-in web-archive? (i.e. pipermail replacement)

2012-03-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 2:37 PM, David Jeske dav...@gmail.com wrote: Can you share something about dependency philosophy (besides licensing) in Mailman? Well, for the official poop you'll have to wait for Barry, but AFAICS archivers aren't restricted to Storm + RESTish (which is what Mailman

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

2012-03-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Terri Oda te...@zone12.com wrote: Looks like archiver for mm3 is still in development stage. As far as I understand searcher depends on the srchiver, right? Not completely but it somewhat depends on archiver. I am not sure if searcher can be implemented

Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman 3.0 beta 1 andPostorius 1.0 alpha 1

2012-03-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Jeff Breidenbach j...@jab.org wrote: archivers are configured site-wide, so there's almost nothing to expose in the web-ui. I'm worried about confusion. Indeed. I think Barry misspoke here. But remember, we're barely out of alpha test, and we don't actually

Re: [Mailman-Developers] any interest in a new built-in web-archive? (i.e. pipermail replacement)

2012-03-26 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 7:20 AM, David Jeske dav...@gmail.com wrote: I'm writing to find out the state of and philosophy surrounding pipermail in mailman, There's been a lot of discussion of this over the years; you should spend some time in the mailman-developers and mailman-users archives

Re: [Mailman-Developers] any interest in a new built-in web-archive? (i.e. pipermail replacement)

2012-03-26 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 03:20:05PM -0700, David Jeske wrote:  As I was talking about hyperkitty we touched briefly on what I think is one of the central conundrums about having only unofficial third party archivers:  

Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman 3.0 beta 1 and Postorius 1.0 alpha 1

2012-03-26 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 2:38 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: On Mar 23, 2012, at 11:47 PM, Felipe Gasper wrote: No INSTALL file in the tarball? The online documentation is here: http://packages.python.org/mailman/README.html but I admit that the Getting Started page is a little bit

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Need guidance to start contributing to Mailman

2012-03-26 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 6:45 AM, Sidharth Bansal sidharthbansal...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Mailman Developers,  Sorry in advance if this is not the right place for my query. I wanted to start contributing to Mailman-Development, and wanted a little head start for that. I would love to get any

Re: [Mailman-Developers] python 3

2012-03-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 12:15 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: Not all of that will be needed.  For example, I do want to eventually get rid of zc.buildout, zope.testing, and zope.testrunner, so some of those dependencies will go away as a result of that. But presumably new dependencies

Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman 3.0 beta 1 and Postorius 1.0 alpha 1

2012-03-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 3:00 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: Hello Mailman enthusiasts! I'm also ecstatic to announce the first alpha release of Postorius, our new official name for the Django-based Mailman 3 web user interface.  The name was suggested by core developer Florian Fuchs

Re: [Mailman-Developers] bugs on launchpad

2012-03-22 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 1:09 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: If we add something like $archive_url to the decoration interpolation dictionary, what happens when we have multiple archivers that support permalink() enabled?  Do we chose one at random (these are unordered)? -1 Do we add

Re: [Mailman-Developers] bugs on launchpad

2012-03-18 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 3:05 AM, Andrea Crotti andrea.crott...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, I filed in two bugs today: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/956889 https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/956384 These are both policy issues, I think they should be posted to the list as well

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Grackle archive framework

2012-03-18 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Aamir Khan syst3m.w...@gmail.com wrote: As for searching the archive, there are solutions like Elastic Search, Solr, lucene. Can we use one of them to search directly through the maildir. Not quickly. Many archives will have thousands of messages, some will

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Thoughts on processing for pre-approved messages

2012-03-18 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 2:41 AM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: I've gone around a bit on this and I've concluded this is analogous to the list poster password I implemented for 2.1. Presumably we don't want to allow this password to be used to authenticate to the web ui. Right. We may

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Thoughts on processing for pre-approved messages

2012-03-18 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:59 AM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: If that were all that was required, that would be fine. The problem is that we allow approval via a pseudo-header as the first non-blank body line in the first text/plain part of the message, and we have to look for it there

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Pycon 2012 sprint start time

2012-03-12 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
I will definitely be there around 9:30, but I have a 10am appointment, should be back around 11am. On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 11:00 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 3/11/2012 10:15 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: Pycon 2012 sprinters, I will

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Pycon 2012 and Mailman 3 plans

2012-03-05 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Toshio Kuratomi writes: On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 02:23:04PM -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: - Possibly, make progress on the next-gen archiver. Greetings, I'l be there and looking to talk with some people about this. I'll be there, and I'm definitely interested in the archiver. While

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman gone social ?

2012-01-10 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: On Jan 07, 2012, at 03:25 PM, Marc Manthey (macbroadcast ) wrote: Most of us are subscribted to several mailinglists, forums , irc andusing socialmedia sites like facebook and/ or twitter. I've long thought that there are enough overlaps with mailing lists,

[Mailman-Developers] building/running alpha 8 on MacOS

2011-11-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Felipe Gasper writes: Does buildout not work on MacOS? It worked for me in the past, so if it doesn't work for you there's a bug somewhere that needs fixing. ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman headers roundup

2011-11-15 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: On Nov 10, 2011, at 02:17 PM, C Nulk wrote: I understand what you are saying. To me Mediator doesn't describe the same information specifically because it is too general in meaning. List-Agent as the header makes sense to me. Mediator generalizes across

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman headers roundup

2011-11-15 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Murray S. Kucherawy writes: However, the IETF might want to change it to the opposite name from the one you pick, or even something else. So you're quite possibly going to repeat this debate in their forum, so save (some of) your strength. Or the posts. ;-)

Re: [Mailman-Developers] New RFC on using DKIM with MLMs

2011-11-01 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Ian Eiloart writes: Good point. I'd argue that the list manager, and the archiver should simply do that: put a received header into the message at the appropriate point. That would make it much easier to track the message progress. I don't have a strong opinion on whether or not that's

[Mailman-Developers] Mailman headers roundup

2011-10-30 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Patrick Ben Koetter writes: X-Mailman-Approved-At lose the X-prefix Modify to: List-Approved-Date Next Step: Create RFC or Extend RFC 2369? New RFC. Once you get to the RFC stage, you don't modify them (even for typos, they publish errata). X-Topics This

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman headers (was Re: New RFC on using DKIM with MLMs)

2011-10-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Murray S. Kucherawy writes: I think having a message with User-Agent and List-Agent is less confusing than one with two User-Agents. Who's going to be confused? Not end users.[1] I would think the real application is for an administrator or software to look at them and go, Uh-oh, it's

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman headers (was Re: New RFC on using DKIM with MLMs)

2011-10-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Murray S. Kucherawy writes: So your perspective is why bother [distinguishing List-Agent from User-Agent], basically? If you put it that way, yes. There sure does need to be a reason to bother. That's fair, I guess, but at the same time, what's the harm in making the distinction?

Re: [Mailman-Developers] New RFC on using DKIM with MLMs

2011-10-28 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Mark Sapiro writes: SMTPD32. You'd have to ask ipswitch if you want to know what it means, but it appears to duplicate the To: header. I would guess that it actually copies the envelope recipient. ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list

Re: [Mailman-Developers] New RFC on using DKIM with MLMs

2011-10-28 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: I think it makes sense to have a header identifying the MLM that the message flowed through, and List-Agent seems like a good choice. Are lists the only agents that forward-with-changes? (Obviously MTAs forward, and they do in fact make changes to the headers, but those

[Mailman-Developers] Mailman headers (was Re: New RFC on using DKIM with MLMs)

2011-10-28 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: X-Mailman-Version I think this should be replaced with X-Mailer, or even User-Agent. That's not currently an SMTP header, but I think it should be. And it is in quite widespread use. This is just the version of Mailman that sent the message. It can lose

Re: [Mailman-Developers] New RFC on using DKIM with MLMs

2011-10-25 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Joshua Cranmer writes: On 10/24/2011 8:04 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Oct 13, 2011, at 11:41 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: There's movement afoot to deprecate use of X- in header field names. Just call it Mailman-Topic. And if it's worthwhile, consider registering it with IANA.

Re: [Mailman-Developers] New RFC on using DKIM with MLMs

2011-10-25 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Patrick Ben Koetter writes: Is it possible to register a prefix (namespace) such as mailman-. Anything below would be mailman related. Stupid idea? Very plausible, but I suspect there are good reasons not to allow it in the RFC 822/1036 messaging series. In any case, no, it's not possible.

Re: [Mailman-Developers] New RFC on using DKIM with MLMs

2011-10-25 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Murray S. Kucherawy writes: What it says is the list should re-sign if it modifies the message (or, in general, re-sign anyway). So append whatever you want, just re-sign the message. Are you insisting that advice is defective? Defective, maybe not. But I don't think I would follow it

Re: [Mailman-Developers] New RFC on using DKIM with MLMs

2011-10-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Murray S. Kucherawy writes: My point is that if using header fields is the right way to encode this information in a protocol sense, then the issue is really that the MUAs need to expose that information somehow. The success of the IETF RFC process is due to the fact that protocol is built

Re: [Mailman-Developers] New RFC on using DKIM with MLMs

2011-10-13 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Murray S. Kucherawy writes: Essentially to be DKIM-friendly you're free to make any changes you want to the message so long as they are confined to those parts of the message not covered by the DKIM signature. So if a signature doesn't cover Subject:, you're fine. Obviously there are

Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM3: list disabling/enabling?

2011-07-16 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: Do you really think it needs to be configurable? I mean, if we can't think of a reason to not make it 5xx, why not just wait for the first wishlist bug report? :) No, on second thought after reviewing the codes, the only appropriate 5xx code is 550. So there's no

Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM3: list disabling/enabling?

2011-07-12 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: But maybe the OP has a different use case in mind and we could have a need for both a long-term, permanently failing retired lists, and shorter term, temporarily failing disabled lists. I don't really understand under what circumstances a list owner would want to

Re: [Mailman-Developers] MailMan Usage

2011-06-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Aamir Khan writes: time or make something like whenever a mail is arrived at may mail it is delivered directly to procmail then it would be really helpful.. This is possible, but how to do it depends on your system. In my case, I use postfix and exim (on different hosts), and they allow

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GnuPG support

2011-05-23 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: My own inclination is that most sites won't need this, FWIW, I disagree. Much of the world is moving in the direction of personal IDs, perhaps backed up by an organization (eg, OpenID), rather than IDs tied to a host. Given the prevalence of systems for the rest of us

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GnuPG support

2011-05-22 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Stanisław Findeisen writes: On 2011-05-22 16:03, Mark Sapiro wrote: Stanislaw Findeisen wrote: I have a feature idea: GnuPG encryption and signing. See https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558189 and http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers@python.org/msg10530.html.

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Call for volunteers: convert wiki to Moin

2011-04-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: The Moin folks have agreed to provide the hardware and admins. I feel much better. Why-yes-I-follow-emacs-devel-since-they-adopted-bzr-why-do-you-ask-ly y'rs, ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Security Patch Announcement

2011-02-18 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Restricting to developers. I wonder if hunks like @@ -471,7 +471,7 @@ if fullname is None: fullname = _('emNot available/em') else: -fullname = Utils.uncanonstr(fullname, lang) +fullname = Utils.websafe(Utils.uncanonstr(fullname, lang))

[Mailman-Developers] Bounce processing in MM3

2011-01-09 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: There are a couple of interesting things in MM3 that makes it different from MM2. In MM3, users and addresses are global to the system, while membership is specific to a mailing list. This means if we register a bounce on an address, we can have that score affect

[Mailman-Developers] Suggestions about Mailman bounce processing

2010-12-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Superticker2 (Mark) writes: I'm not a subscriber to this list, so please include me superticker2{at}iastate.edu on your cc: line. I have two suggestions I would like to make concerning Mailman bounce processing: 1) All bounces from either a Mass Subscribe or Mass Invite operation

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Can i use the Bouncer API a Programm wich is not GPL?

2010-11-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Marc Egli writes: Ok but i can add a script to Mailman which accepts a path to a mail file, then reads that file and gives a csv list back. Yes, I would think so. The FSF likes to bluster that programs running in separate processes that interact with each other via standard interprocess

[Mailman-Developers] Can i use the Bouncer API a Programm wich is not GPL?

2010-11-05 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Marc Egli writes: Now my question is: can i release my application under a less restrictive license like the bsd license? Probably not. According to the gpl-faq this is a borderline case because i only invoke a function and wait for the response.

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Archives! Two neat demos from my GSoC students

2010-10-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Terri Oda writes: But there's only a handful of developers working on this, and I think the overhead, however small, is more than it's worth at the moment. So maybe we could keep them integrated for now until it's more clearly a win to split the tree off? What worries me is that

Re: [Mailman-Developers] UI for Mailman 3.0 update

2010-06-17 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: It's an interesting idea, but I'm not quite sure how a webserver pipeline would work. The way the list server pipeline works now is by treating messages as jobs that flow through the system. A web request is kind of a different beast. Why? Abstractly, both web

Re: [Mailman-Developers] UI for Mailman 3.0 update

2010-06-16 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Cristóbal Palmer writes: On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 01:03:20PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: The question is what are they protecting? My claim is that if you're protecting economic resources (bandwidth, accurate counts of real users) they may be more or less useful. If it's

Re: [Mailman-Developers] UI for Mailman 3.0 update

2010-06-15 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Cristóbal Palmer writes: While I could in theory maintain a patch, I have a lot of machines to herd, and I am unlikely to customize anything unless I must do so in order to meet a requirement. This is a straw man in the context of the Mailman pipelined architecture and the CheeseShop.

Re: [Mailman-Developers] UI for Mailman 3.0 update

2010-06-14 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Eric Bloch writes: I am a lurker here and can concur with Cristóbal's sentiments wrt captchas . I run http://markmail.org where we provide a search index for thousands of public mailman lists (and google groups and other mailing lists as well). The captchas we use (for a variety of

Re: [Mailman-Developers] UI for Mailman 3.0 update

2010-06-14 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Eric Bloch writes: My experience is not limited nor second hand. We get scanned by plenty of bots every day. Heck, I can beat that: some of my sites get scanned by more bots than they have actual users.wink The question of limited is how many different sites/kinds of sites do you have

Re: [Mailman-Developers] UI for Mailman 3.0 update

2010-06-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: We'll probably end up using Launchpad since our branches and bug trackers are there, but Transifex does look nice. File an RFE on Launchpad! Then go twist some arms at the next Ubuntu summit, or better yet, lull them into submission with slow sexy bass line. Maybe you

Re: [Mailman-Developers] UI for Mailman 3.0 update

2010-06-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Patrick Ben Koetter writes: Geoff, I am really happy to find out you, as a blind person, Yeah, a big +1 on that. Good to hear that we can get first person feedback. Interesting to hear that Mailman 2 has a reasonably usable interface, as AFAIK that wasn't a design consideration.

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Ham, mailing lists, and oddball character sets

2010-05-05 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Cristóbal Palmer writes: On Tue, May 04, 2010 at 12:32:42PM -0600, Philip A. Prindeville wrote: And thereby, it would be trivial to bounce a message sent to an English-language only mailing list that wasn't encoded in USASCII or Latin1 (iso-8859-1) as the charset. But alas

Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM feature request - spread out the pain

2010-04-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
s...@pobox.com writes: Stephen If Mailman can do it *better* than cron, that would be another Stephen matter. That point is arguable, but my personal preference Stephen would be to provide a generic feature that both cron and other Stephen possible schedulers could take

Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM feature request - spread out the pain

2010-04-04 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
David Andrews writes: I disagree, not everyone who runs a list has access to the command line, and/or the means or ability to set up a Cron Job, so something through the Web UI would be useful! Of course it would be useful to people who are using platforms that were designed to make

Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM feature request - spread out the pain

2010-04-02 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
s...@pobox.com writes: I assume the monthly reminder emails have be canned for a reason. They do have the nice property of sending something to every subscribed address, even those who are set NOMAIL. That's a good point. I think a better way to handle this might be an Urgent flag (I

Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM3 WUI :: Memberships Management

2010-04-02 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Adam McGreggor writes: Inspired by http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Web+UI+Mockups, here's my annotated mock-up screen-shot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/adamamyl/4484703864/ Looks good as a rough cut. What I worry about is that there are a lot of options, and maybe a lot of

[Mailman-Developers] MM3 WUI :: Memberships Management

2010-04-01 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Adam McGreggor writes: I'm wondering if with MM3, admins will be able to delegate the various aspects of admin-tasks to owners/other users -- e.g., I want to be able to allow person X to just be able to add/remove users from a given list; I want to allow person Y to be able to change

Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM feature request - spread out the pain

2010-04-01 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
David Andrews writes: Some other list software, I believe, has a feature that sends out a canned message once a month, such as list rules. I would like to see this in MM3 -1. This is mission creep. A cron job will serve perfectly well. Something that assists in setting up such cron

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Status?

2010-03-22 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Kovács Zoltán writes: Dear All, do you have some screenshots about the upcoming Mailman3 UI? I have been Googling for some time but I didn't got appropriate results. If you think screenshots of the UI are important, then Mailman 3 is not for you, yet. Please have some patience, it will be

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Feature Request - Interactive HTML Digests

2010-02-23 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Tanstaafl writes: Also, maybe peeking at the message source for one of the Yahoo and Google Digests could make this easier... All 250KB of Javascript?wink/ There is *serious* magic in there; this is *wa-a-ay* beyond the remit of Mailman. Mailman is *not* a full-featured MUA, and it never

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Feature Request - Interactive HTML Digests

2010-02-22 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Tanstaafl writes: That's not the point. The point is that in my experience these are minimum requirements for a digest view, Sorry, maybe I'm dense but I don't know what you mean by 'these' when you said 'these are minimum requirements'... and reading the previous messages wasn't

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Feature Request - Interactive HTML Digests

2010-02-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Tanstaafl writes: On 2/20/2010 10:53 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: My users expect to be able to view the messages in a digest as an email folder. That's the most important digest feature for them; I wouldn't have had a clue what you're talking about here, but maybe you're

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Reply-To munging considered *carefully*

2010-01-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Earl Ruby writes: I've read back through this thread, and forgive me if this has been discussed before, but have you considered giving subscribers the option of deciding for themselves whether their replies should go to the list or to the poster? No, I hadn't considered it, and upon

[Mailman-Developers] Mailman and Submission port

2009-11-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Patrick Ben Koetter writes: I'd like to propose a change in MM3s default SMTP client port from port 25 (transport) to port 587 (submission). I don't see a real justification for such a change, given the authentication requirement. While Mailman can be used in relatively closed setups, its

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman roadmap

2009-11-11 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Brian J Mingus writes: I have only recently subscribed to this list and I can say that you and every other person that read my e-mail saw fit to ignore it. I don't see anything in my folder or in the archives for this list (Mailman Developers). Perhaps you are referring to your post

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Reply-To munging considered *carefully*

2009-10-14 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Michael B. Trausch writes: Permit me to rephrase so that you understand what I said: I understand what you said. You are not responding to what I said, except emotionally. Stripped of emotional language, the fact is that there are use cases for Reply-To which Reply-To munging overrides. The

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