Peter Shute writes:
I don't know if we are doing SPF/DKIM ( or what they are).
You should ask the people responsible for your mailserver. SPF and
DKIM in themselves are good things because they prevent rejections of
mail that you send directly to another domain that implements them,
and
My native paranoia has caused me to take note of the fact that what can only be
described as a naked power grab by a collection of corporate Internet giants,
with blatant disregard for the principles of net neutrality, has occurred while
the attention of the national tech media is focused on
Mitra IMAP wrote:
My native paranoia has caused me to take note of the fact
that what can only be described as a naked power grab by a
collection of corporate Internet giants, with blatant
disregard for the principles of net neutrality, has occurred
while the attention of the national
Many sage responses elided... so back to the naive and foolish questions...
For an announce only list (viz. only very special people may post, and
those people aren't from yahoo accounts) will this DMARC issue be easily
avoided by not allowing any posts from yahoo members (they can read from
On Thu, 2014-04-10 at 15:35 -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
Here's a tried and tested patch just awaiting more use:
https://code.launchpad.net/~jimpop/mailman/dmarc-reject
Jim, I note that what you reference here appears to be a complete branch
version of Mailman. Can you briefly outline exactly
On 04/13/2014 03:25 PM, Keith Bierman wrote:
For an announce only list (viz. only very special people may post, and
those people aren't from yahoo accounts) will this DMARC issue be easily
avoided by not allowing any posts from yahoo members (they can read from
others, correct?)
Yes, that
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
On Thu, 2014-04-10 at 15:35 -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
Here's a tried and tested patch just awaiting more use:
https://code.launchpad.net/~jimpop/mailman/dmarc-reject
Jim, I note that what you reference here appears to
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
On Thu, 2014-04-10 at 15:35 -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
Here's a tried and tested patch just awaiting more use:
On Apr 13, 2014, at 08:48 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
Launchpad is not my forte, so I'm not even sure how to push only my
modifications to LP without the upstream branch changes. And yes,
I'll be the first to say it's a bit confusing in it's current branch.
The best way to do it is to submit a
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 9:06 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote:
On Apr 13, 2014, at 08:48 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
Launchpad is not my forte, so I'm not even sure how to push only my
modifications to LP without the upstream branch changes. And yes,
I'll be the first to say it's a bit
Keith Bierman writes:
For an announce only list (viz. only very special people may post, and
those people aren't from yahoo accounts) will this DMARC issue be easily
avoided by not allowing any posts from yahoo members (they can read from
others, correct?)
Yes.
BTW, hardly naive (the
On 12 Apr 2014, at 11:53 am, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:
Maybe. Yahoo requests and receives reports of rejected mail. This is
only speculation, but if Yahoo sees that your server is sending what it
considers to be bogus mail purporting to be From: its domain, it could
decide to
On 04/12/2014 02:59 AM, Peter Shute wrote:
On 12 Apr 2014, at 11:53 am, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 3 = 7
Thanks for those. Is the last one a typo? Otherwise, what does =3=7 mean?
It was supposed to say
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 3
On 12 Apr 2014, at 9:28 pm, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:
Additional reading at http://www.dmarc.org/faq.html#s_3,
http://blog.threadable.com/how-threadable-solved-the-dmarc-problem and
http://www.spamresource.com/2014/04/run-email-discussion-list-heres-how-to.html
and other articles
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Peter Shute psh...@nuw.org.au wrote:
On 12 Apr 2014, at 9:28 pm, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:
Additional reading at http://www.dmarc.org/faq.html#s_3,
http://blog.threadable.com/how-threadable-solved-the-dmarc-problem and
On 13 Apr 2014, at 8:20 am, Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
But note that the part of the threadable article I quoted talks about not
*delivering* to yahoo addresses. I would thought that shouldn't be a problem.
The recent yahoo change means that you (as a mailinglist operator)
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 8:17 PM, Peter Shute psh...@nuw.org.au wrote:
On 13 Apr 2014, at 8:20 am, Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote:
But note that the part of the threadable article I quoted talks about not
*delivering* to yahoo addresses. I would thought that shouldn't be a
problem.
On 11/04/14 03:19, Mark Sapiro wrote:
I'm not sure why you can't upgrade if you can patch the code, but in any
case, I can't point you at a single patch to do it my way because there
are several. You could do it by applying all of the following patches in
order.
Thank you very much, Mark!
(my apologies to anyone who reads NANOG, this is mostly a repeat
of what I said there)
On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 11:36:16AM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
It *is* a shame that these anti-spam defenses knowingly break mailing lists.
It's a shame that this is being pushed as an anti-spam defense when
I hadn't heard of this till now. Could somebody please confirm if my
understanding of the issue is correct?
This is what I'm thinking will happen, please correct where I'm wrong:
- A list member sends an email to the list from a yahoo address
- The list sends that email out to all the list
On 04/11/2014 06:28 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
I hadn't heard of this till now. Could somebody please confirm if my
understanding of the issue is correct?
This is what I'm thinking will happen, please correct where I'm wrong:
- A list member sends an email to the list from a yahoo address
-
Our observation here has been that only Yahoo addresses, and those of other
services which also uses the DMARC algorithm generate bounces. Because the
From: address contains yahoo.com, and the IP address of the list server does
not reverse resolve to a yahoo.com server, the list email is
They're breaking RFC 822 / 5322.
The From: field specifies the author(s) of the message,
that is, the mailbox(es) of the person(s) or system(s) responsible
for the writing of the message. [...]
In all cases, the From: field SHOULD NOT contain any mailbox that
does not belong to the
On 10/04/14 16:25, Joseph Brennan wrote:
They're breaking RFC 822 / 5322.
The From: field specifies the author(s) of the message,
that is, the mailbox(es) of the person(s) or system(s) responsible
for the writing of the message. [...]
In all cases, the From: field SHOULD NOT
I hate to say it, but the days of the kinder, gentler internet when
everyone played strictly by the RFCs are passing as operational control
of internet services comes increasingly under the control of fewer,
bigger players who can do as they wish.
This isn't to say that Mailman should break RFCs
Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
SPF inherently breaks mailing lists
No, it doesn't. SPF checks the envelope sender, and when the list host is,
say, lists.example.com, the envelope sender is something like
listname-boun...@lists.example.com, and that can pass SPF. Mailman,
Listserv,
On 10/04/14 17:18, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
This is the first I've heard of this issue, but it doesn't surprise me
at all.
Basically, Yahoo insists that their own mail servers are the only ones that can
originate the
message with @yahoo.com domain in the From header. Not Return-Path, Not the
On Apr 10, 2014, at 03:09 PM, Siniša Burina wrote:
I believe there's no need to elaborate on the problems recently introduced by
Yahoo, changing their DMARC DNS record and rendering many mailman lists
unusable for Yahoo mail users.
It *is* a shame that these anti-spam defenses knowingly break
On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 10:18:33AM -0500, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
I hate to say it, but the days of the kinder, gentler internet when
everyone played strictly by the RFCs are passing as operational control
of internet services comes increasingly under the control of fewer,
bigger players who
On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Adam McGreggor
adam-mail...@amyl.org.uk wrote:
On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 10:18:33AM -0500, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
I hate to say it, but the days of the kinder, gentler internet when
everyone played strictly by the RFCs are passing as operational control
of
Siniša Burina writes:
Basically, Yahoo insists that their own mail servers are the only
ones that can originate the message with @yahoo.com domain in the
From header. Not Return-Path, Not the envelope sender, but exactly
the From header in the message itself. If this practice gets
On 10/04/14 19:57, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Or just bounce them with a message stating that Yahoo no longer
permits its users to post to mailing lists, so please use a different
posting address. I realize that most sites can't do that, but mine
can (and will if I get any complaints about
On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Siniša Burina s...@burina.net wrote:
On 10/04/14 19:57, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Or just bounce them with a message stating that Yahoo no longer
permits its users to post to mailing lists, so please use a different
posting address. I realize that most sites
On Apr 11, 2014, at 02:57 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
The straightforward thing for Mailman to do is to wrap mail from yahoo
addresses in a multipart/mixed with a text part explaining that Yahoo
is knowingly interfering with the mail service of their users, and
the mail itself in a
On 04/10/2014 07:25 AM, Joseph Brennan wrote:
They're breaking RFC 822 / 5322.
The From: field specifies the author(s) of the message,
that is, the mailbox(es) of the person(s) or system(s) responsible
for the writing of the message. [...]
In all cases, the From: field SHOULD NOT
On Apr 10, 2014, at 20:25, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:
On 04/10/2014 07:25 AM, Joseph Brennan wrote:
They're breaking RFC 822 / 5322.
The From: field specifies the author(s) of the message,
that is, the mailbox(es) of the person(s) or system(s) responsible
for the writing of
On 04/10/2014 06:09 AM, Siniša Burina wrote:
I see the solution to this problem in changing the From: field to mailing
list's address, but
keeping the poster's name or address in the description part of the same
field. For example:
...
I'm using Mailman 2.1.13, and can not upgrade to
On 04/10/2014 05:35 PM, mail.ulticom.com wrote:
At least as of iOS 7 it can show messages inside messages.
Thanks for the tip. I'll check with my users and see what they're using.
--
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California
Mark Sapiro writes:
Unfortunately, when I actually turned this on in response to
Yahoo's change in DMARC policy, I got complaints from users of
Apple iOS iThings that their mail clients do not deal well with
this message,
The iOS 6 mail client was just plain unusable, and in very limited
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