Re: [Marxism] Israel moves closer to a single-state solution
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Thanks Luko, another useful resource is the Discriminatory Law Database at the Adalah website: http://adalah.org/eng/Israeli-Discriminatory-Law-Database After my 45 years of occasional but ongoing Palestine solidarity work, my friend Frances ReMillard has been helping me to see into these deeper structural realities of the Zionist state of Israel. Frances is the director of Utahns for a Just Peace in the Holy Land jphl.org; she became a political activist a decade ago, already in her sixties, when her college age kids brought their Palestinian friends home and Frances was shocked to begin to learn about the oppression of the Palestinians. Frances is a retired scientist who wants to understand the basic reality of things. A recent experience of hers that brought new insight into the nature of the state of Israel was participating in the (Bertrand) Russell Tribunal on Palestine which took place in Capetown http://www.russelltribunalonpalestine.com/en/sessions/south-africa/south-africa-session-%E2%80%94-full-findings/cape-town-session-summary-of-findings in November 2011. One of the major resources for the Tribunal's deliberations was the South Africa Human Sciences Research Council's 2009 research paper on: *Occupation, Colonialism, Apartheid? A re-assessment of Israel’s practices in the occupied Palestinian territories under international law* which is available at http://electronicintifada.net/files/090608-hsrc.pdf Because the HSRC's study is heavy legalese that is difficult for the layperson to digest, Frances wrote and published a reader friendly summary Is Israel an Apartheid State? which can be downloaded at: http://jphl.org/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=23Itemid=40 btw Frances is not an 'Apartheid Israel' fanatic, she readily agrees with Noam Chomsky, Bishop Desmond Tutu and others that Zionist Israel is more dangerously oppressive than South African apartheid. Dayne On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Lüko Willms marxm...@lws-media.de wrote: on Dienstag, 2. September 2014 at 06:43, Dayne Goodwin via Marxism wrote: * Israel's 1952 Status Law intertwines the World Zionist Organization/Jewish Agency/Jewish National Fund inextricably with the state of Israel * can be found at http://www.israellawresourcecenter.org/israellaws/fulltext/jewishagencystatuslaw.htm together with many other Israeli laws Cheers, Lüko Willms Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Israel moves closer to a single-state solution
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Sep 2, 2014, at 12:43 AM, Dayne Goodwin via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: I think that the discussion on the Israeli 'right' which Marv shared with us, is discussion about how an enlarged Israel could still keep the remaining Palestinians legally repressed as it already is doing in fully Israel controlled territory. It might come to pass that Israel has to do something like this for some time while it still presses steadily forward with ethnic cleansing, just as it works steadily now to take control of remaining Palestinian land within the 1948 borders and press remaining Palestinians to emigrate. That will depend on whether it becomes necessary for the Zionists to do so. Indigenous populations are not always liquidated or expelled; many remain subordinated and segregated within the boundaries of the colonial settler state after having been driven off the best land. I suppose you could describe this as a kind of internal ethnic cleansing. But the most fascistic Zionists have to take into account that Israel, a latecomer to colonialism in an age when this is no longer the norm, is under the microscope and international political and economic pressure can be brought to bear against it when its brutal treatment of the Palestinians becomes especially egregious and arouses world opinion. I think the right-wing Zionists are counting on the birthrate of their religious fundamentalist base outstripping that of the West Bank Palestinians coupled with the fact there is no way they are going to include Gaza or readmit the Palestinian refugee masses outside the occupied territories into a Greater Israel. This all presupposes, of course, that no threatening third intifada or war with neighbouring states erupts in which case both the necessity and pretext for further mass expulsion would quickly reappear on the agenda. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Israel moves closer to a single-state solution
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Interesting discussion, though I also know that the human suffering at the heart of the Palestinian struggle weighs upon all of us in this thread. We are all aware of that, despite possible differences. My analysis springs from a realization that all structures of oppression and domination rest upon a layer of what I call dirty business - torture, assassinations, beatings, spies, planting of evidence, informers, arrest without trial etc. Those in charge of dirty business are generally kept away from the limelight. Occasionally they are punished when the system needs to look respectable. What has happened in Israel is that the peddlers of dirty business now run the government. They are out there in the open for everyone to see in all their filthy racist glory. As I have frequently pointed out, there is no more Ben Gurion or Golda Meir to make the Zionist project look half decent. Why the thugs are out there in charge of things, I am not sure. It speaks to me of a crisis of Zionism. I can only think that the political conditions necessary for the fulfillment of the Zionist dream no longer exist. That is why that, like the Apartheid regime in South Africa, Israel is fast becoming a pariah. Nonetheless, there is an inner logic to Zionism and it cannot be stopped. The idea of a two state solution is the last chance for Zionism to become acceptable, but it is being sabotaged repeatedly by the Israeli government.. The stealing of Arab land was always the core meaning of Zionism - always. Ethnic cleansing was also always apart of that. I think this is what Richard Seymour means when he talks of the process of auto-radicalization at work within Zionism. It is not for me to tell the Palestinians how they should wage their struggle. However, I do agree with the position advanced on the Electronic Intifada website of dissolving the Oslo structures. That could then initiate a struggle for democratic rights within Israel. The experience of Northern Ireland shows that a campaign for something such as One vote: One value cannot be accommodated within an Apartheid state. In the mean time our hopes must be pinned on the visibly deepening commitment of young Arabs to the Palestinian cause. comradely Gary On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Michael Karadjis via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == What these developments highlight is that one-state is not inherently superior over two states in all cases. Both have their dangers, both can be Zionist or non-Zionist versions. Arguably, two states are not viable as a long-term solution, but before getting to a full-scale solution, any number of options are possible as stages in struggle. The idea of the Palestinians achieving independent political authority in a West Bank-Gaza-Jerusalem state, via a mixture of military, civil, diplomatic etc struggle (as, let's say, a temporary stage towards dismantling Israeli apartheid), may seem unrealistic, but I doubt it is less realistic than getting a one-state solution of a democratic type any time soon. Probably more realistic. But perhaps less realistic than this Zionist version of one-state. Where the one-state solution is not South Africa at end of apartheid in 1994 but South Africa at onset of it in 1948, with the difference that the Palestinians will be locked in as a permanent minority via ethnic cleansing, denial of return etc, thus without even the potential of South Africa's Black majority. Watch what you wish for. -Original Message- From: Marv Gandall via Marxism Sent: Tuesday, September 2, 2014 9:20 PM To: Michael Karadjis Subject: Re: [Marxism] Israel moves closer to a single-state solution == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Sep 2, 2014, at 12:43 AM, Dayne Goodwin via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: I think that the discussion on the Israeli 'right' which Marv shared with us, is discussion about how an enlarged Israel could still keep the remaining Palestinians legally repressed as it already is doing in fully Israel controlled territory. It might come to pass that Israel has to do something like this for some time while it still presses steadily forward with ethnic cleansing, just as it works steadily now to take control of remaining Palestinian land within the 1948 borders and press remaining Palestinians to emigrate
Re: [Marxism] Israel moves closer to a single-state solution
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == We have been down this path before. N. Ireland is the classic instance. It was set up in 1922 on the six counties of nine county province of Ulster. the first Prime Minster declared a Protestant parliament for a Protestant people. The reason why only six counties were included in N. Ireland was that the other three had large Catholic majorities. But there were always too many Catholics in N. Ireland - around 30% then and now close to 50%. The demographic danger necessitated systematic discrimination against the Catholics in terms of boundary rigging, jobs and housing. That in turn meant unending social tension between the two communities and that periodically exploded until we now have a state which is divided by its power sharing arrangements. Moreover, it is one that is sliding inexorably into dissolution. The same fate awaits this one-state dreamed off by the Israeli Right. And that is why I still believe that ethnic cleansing is on the Zionist menu. comradely Gary On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 11:54 PM, Marv Gandall via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Israel’s decision, announced this weekend, to expropriate 1000 acres of Palestinian land is the largest single land grab in the past three decades of the occupation, and further evidence, in case such were needed, that it has no intention of negotiating a two-state solution. I’ve linked below an excellent article published several months ago by the Israeli blogger Noam Shiezaf indicating what prominent figures close to the governing right-wing coalition have in mind for a single Jewish state encompassing the West Bank but excluding Gaza and the Palestinian refugees. Contrary to the fears expressed by their liberal counterparts, these right-wing Zionists do not believe they will have to choose between demography and democracy; they’re convinced they can both grant formal citizenship rights to the West Bank Palestinians while retaining a Jewish majority in their realized vision of a Greater Israel spanning both banks of the Jordan River. http://972mag.com/what-is-the-israeli-rights-one-state-vision/90755/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/gary.maclennan1%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Israel moves closer to a single-state solution
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Sep 1, 2014, at 8:07 PM, Gary MacLennan gary.maclenn...@gmail.com wrote: …I still believe that ethnic cleansing is on the Zionist menu. Conceivably. But it’s also conceivable that granting the Palestinians formal citizenship at some point could see their demands for equal rights channelled and absorbed into the Israeli electoral system, encouraging their gravitation towards parties like Balad and even Labour. As we know, granting democratic rights (to vote, to form unions) is a two edged sword: it opens the door to modest improvements within the system at the same time it saps more militant resistance outside of it. Ruling classes often choose to institutionalize disruptive and costly conflict in this way, and it may well underlie the thinking of that segment of the Zionist right cited by Sheizaf. I wouldn’t rule out any scenario. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Israel moves closer to a single-state solution
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 3:07 AM, Gary MacLennan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: And that is why I still believe that ethnic cleansing is on the Zionist menu. I could easily have missed the forest for the trees, but at this point, I can't see a coherent Zionist agenda (other than racism all around) or any sort of consensus for the future. The governing coalition can't even agree on whether they're better off with Hamas or the PA running Gaza right now, much less a long-term strategy. -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
