Re: (fsf site) Advice requested on security issues

2008-01-05 Thread L
The sad thing is you are being more careful with your system design than your bank probably is. :-/ By the time you are running OpenBSD on your banking computer, I suspect you have shifted the primary risk to the other end of the wire...your bank is a bigger risk to your data than you are.

Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: Real men don't attack straw men]

2008-01-05 Thread Bryan Irvine
For example, his Wikipedia article is one sided propaganda: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_stallman Yeah maybe, but so's the uncyclopedia version! ;) http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman -B

Re: FW: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Siju George
On Jan 5, 2008 11:24 AM, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was a bit curious about what would someone who reads web-sites by using a wget daemon through e-mails whose own web-site looks like... well... Apache httpd 2.0.54 ((Debian GNU/Linux) DAV/2 SVN/1.2.0

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Siju George
On Jan 5, 2008 11:24 AM, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The wget he uses is worse. You can download any non-free software with it and it does not warn the user at all!!! I don't object to general-purpose tools just for being general. How about OpenBSD ports system a

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Siju George
On Jan 5, 2008 11:25 AM, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://directory.fsf.org/project/Windows32API/ http://directory.fsf.org/project/wxwindows/ http://wxwindows.org/about/credits.htm see the acknowledgment from one of the softwares endorsed by FSF your

Re: Open Source Article Spawns Interesting Ethical Question

2008-01-05 Thread Lars Hansson
When someone asked him how to make a living of IT without using or promoting non-free software, his answer was that you don't have to work in the IT field to contribute to free software, and he'd prefer see a kernel contributor being a taxi driver than administrating Windows workstations (It

Re: FW: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Denis Doroshenko
On Jan 5, 2008 7:54 AM, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apache httpd 2.0.54 ((Debian GNU/Linux) DAV/2 SVN/1.2.0 PHP/4.3.10-22 mod_ssl/2.0.54 OpenSSL/0.9.7e) I have nothing against running a web site. you have *nothing* against a distribution that makes it easier to install

sendmail in base not supporting AUTH?

2008-01-05 Thread Daniel
Hi! I wish to use sendmail in base to use a SMART_HOST (my isp's smtp server), and that SMART_HOST requires authentication. I was told that sendmail must be compiled with SASL support even if it is only acting as and smtp client when using AUTH. Is it right? Am I stuck here, and won't be able

Re: FW: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Rod Whitworth
On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 12:09:16 +0200, Denis Doroshenko wrote: On Jan 5, 2008 7:54 AM, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apache httpd 2.0.54 ((Debian GNU/Linux) DAV/2 SVN/1.2.0 PHP/4.3.10-22 mod_ssl/2.0.54 OpenSSL/0.9.7e) I have nothing against running a web site. you have

Re: sendmail in base not supporting AUTH?

2008-01-05 Thread Otto Moerbeek
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 12:00:39PM +0100, Daniel wrote: Hi! I wish to use sendmail in base to use a SMART_HOST (my isp's smtp server), and that SMART_HOST requires authentication. I was told that sendmail must be compiled with SASL support even if it is only acting as and smtp client when

Re: sendmail in base not supporting AUTH?

2008-01-05 Thread Antoine Jacoutot
On Sat, 5 Jan 2008, Daniel wrote: I wish to use sendmail in base to use a SMART_HOST (my isp's smtp server), and that SMART_HOST requires authentication. I was told that sendmail must be compiled with SASL support even if it is only acting as and smtp client when using AUTH. Is it right? Am I

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 05:49:42PM -0600, Gilles Chehade wrote: Why didn't you answer my mail Rui ? You are a troll. Either I did and you missed it, or it wasn't the answer you'd expect or I found it so irrelevant it didn't even raise any bell. Anyways, most of your emails have been so rude

Running dhclient on CARP interfaces

2008-01-05 Thread Rolf Sommerhalder
While trying to transpose a working two-stage active-passive firewall from an enterprise network with a _fixed_ public Internet address to a much smaller home setup that must live with a _dynamic_ public IP address assigned by the DHCP server of my ISP, I observe that running dhclient(8) on

Re: delete deleted data

2008-01-05 Thread Kasper Revsbech
Are you willing to share the names of those programs ? Kind regards Kasper L wrote: Just FYI about security of deleted data.. I purchase used computers for parts every so often. Many of them have working hard drives in them. For fun, I analyze the hard drive out and see what I can find..

Re: sendmail in base not supporting AUTH?

2008-01-05 Thread Stuart Henderson
On 2008/01/05 12:00, Daniel wrote: I wish to use sendmail in base to use a SMART_HOST (my isp's smtp server), and that SMART_HOST requires authentication. I was told that sendmail must be compiled with SASL support even if it is only acting as and smtp client when using AUTH. Is it right? Am I

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Sunnz
2008/1/5, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Before you argue that ReactOS is merely a free implementation of Win32 API, let me clarify: if the purpose of ReactOS isn't to run some Windows-only software S, then what is the purpose of ReactOS? if S was free, it wouldn't be

Re: FW: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Sunnz
2008/1/5, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I was a bit curious about what would someone who reads web-sites by using a wget daemon through e-mails whose own web-site looks like... well... Apache httpd 2.0.54 ((Debian GNU/Linux) DAV/2 SVN/1.2.0 PHP/4.3.10-22

Re: delete deleted data

2008-01-05 Thread Shane J Pearson
On 04/01/2008, at 8:19 AM, Brad Tilley wrote: One pass from /dev/zero is more than enough for all cases. I agree that after a single pass of zeroes, getting anything but zeroes from a fully working, unaltered drive is not going to happen. But if you remove the digital logic which masks

Re: [Fwd: Open-Hardware]

2008-01-05 Thread Sunnz
2008/1/5, Paul Greidanus [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Richard Stallman wrote: If something is harder to copy, it is ethically ok to have a different standard for this piece of technology. Seriously, that's what you're saying above. Because hardware may have to be copied by

Re: delete deleted data

2008-01-05 Thread Shane J Pearson
On 04/01/2008, at 12:21 PM, Harpalus a Como wrote: Myth? Why are you so upset about this? It's not myth. The techniques involved in recovering data in the manner Marco and the NSA, DoD, and many others describe isn't a matter of running a simple software tool. It's a long, slow, annoying

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Richard Stallman
Thank you for telling me about this problem. I will talk with them about this ASAP. I expect they will probably remove those. And ReactOS is next? Does ReactOS recommend non-free software? If so. please show me what it says, and the URL. I do not have a lot of influence with

Re: [Fwd: Open-Hardware]

2008-01-05 Thread Richard Stallman
You certainly don't live by what you preach. You are pointed at not one but various facts to the contrary. I do practice my own principles, but when you compare the two you have to be careful not to alter the principles in your own mind. If you do that, you could easily discover an

Re: Is Visiting the gnewsense website or downloading it actively promoting the use of non-free software?

2008-01-05 Thread Richard Stallman
from the data I get from below http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.gnewsense.org I just wonder if the gnewsense OS is being distributed through the very non free OSes http://www.gnewsense.org/FAQ/FAQ#toc3 The words being distributed through are not

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Richard Stallman
I guess I missed the part where you explained how it makes sense to apply a label like not recommended because it supports non-free software to OpenBSD but not to FSF (emacs, etc.). As I've said, I think it's acceptable for free applications to run on non-free platforms (and say that

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread Richard Stallman
I note that Richard also says that AROS is a free operating system. I don't recognize the name AROS, but if it is an operating system, it is possible I said something about it at some point. Could you tell me where that statement appears? If I need to correct it, I need to know where it is.

Re: FW: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Siju George
On Jan 5, 2008 11:24 AM, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This continues the pattern of straw men. Over and over, people on this list criticize me for doing something which neither I nor anyone else here actually thinks is wrong. Please list the names of so called straw men in your

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Sunnz
2008/1/6, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thank you for telling me about this problem. I will talk with them about this ASAP. I expect they will probably remove those. And ReactOS is next? Does ReactOS recommend non-free software? If so. please show me what it says, and

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:53:30AM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 05:49:42PM -0600, Gilles Chehade wrote: Why didn't you answer my mail Rui ? You are a troll. Either I did and you missed it, or it wasn't the answer you'd expect or I found it so irrelevant it

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 09:31:10AM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: I note that Richard also says that AROS is a free operating system. I don't recognize the name AROS, but if it is an operating system, it is possible I said something about it at some point. Could you tell me where that

OT YAG Re: delete deleted data

2008-01-05 Thread Diana Eichert
Okay, someone touched on this so I'll follow it a little further. Say you pull the platter(s) out of the drive and now start analysing the data as analog voltage levels and not highs/lows with threshold. Also, get the data off the platter(s) by driving a head across it in different

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Jason Dixon
On Jan 5, 2008, at 9:30 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: As I've said, I think it's acceptable for free applications to run on non-free platforms (and say that they do), because this doesn't recommend the installation of those non-free platforms. Yes, it does. It's even WORSE since these

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Karthik Kumar
On Jan 5, 2008 8:19 PM, Sunnz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/1/6, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thank you for telling me about this problem. I will talk with them about this ASAP. I expect they will probably remove those. And ReactOS is next? Does ReactOS

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread Sunnz
2008/1/6, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I note that Richard also says that AROS is a free operating system. I don't recognize the name AROS, but if it is an operating system, it is possible I said something about it at some point. Could you tell me where that statement appears? If

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Andrés
On Jan 5, 2008 11:30 AM, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I've said, I think it's acceptable for free applications to run on non-free platforms (and say that they do), because this doesn't recommend the installation of those non-free platforms. But free systems should not

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Marc Espie
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 09:30:09AM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: I guess I missed the part where you explained how it makes sense to apply a label like not recommended because it supports non-free software to OpenBSD but not to FSF (emacs, etc.). As I've said, I think it's

Re: Open Source Article Spawns Interesting Ethical Question

2008-01-05 Thread Alexander Terekhov
On Jan 4, 2008 11:41 PM, Paul de Weerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I've been working in IT for well over 10 years now. I can promise you that, had I denounced non-free software, I would not have been able to pay for my food or my rent/mortgage for the past 10 years.

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread Andrés
On Jan 5, 2008 11:31 AM, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't recognize the name AROS, but if it is an operating system, it is possible I said something about it at some point. Could you tell me where that statement appears? If I need to correct it, I need to know where it is.

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 08:51:33PM +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: On Jan 5, 2008 8:19 PM, Sunnz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/1/6, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thank you for telling me about this problem. I will talk with them about this ASAP. I expect they will probably

Re: Advice requested on security issues

2008-01-05 Thread Russell Gadd
On 05/01/2008, Nick Holland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Your PF rules would probably just block all incoming traffic and pass outgoing traffic. Or if you want to make sure it is used only for your desired app, block everything outbound 'cept for that traffic destined to your desired

Re: Open Source Article Spawns Interesting Ethical Question

2008-01-05 Thread Alexander Terekhov
In response to off-band inquiries... On Jan 5, 2008 4:41 PM, Alexander Terekhov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 4, 2008 11:41 PM, Paul de Weerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I've been working in IT for well over 10 years now. I can promise you that, had I denounced non-free software, I

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Karthik Kumar
On another hand we are not GNU/GPL and we don't mind our users installing non free software if it is what they want. The FAQ is where this needs to be documented for users to get their job done faster. If you don't mind users using non-free software, you shouldn't be putting the 'Free. ' in

Re: [Fwd: Open-Hardware]

2008-01-05 Thread chefren
On 1/5/08 3:31 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: You certainly don't live by what you preach. You are pointed at not one but various facts to the contrary. I do practice my own principles, By using and endorsing gNewSense??? It seems you really don't read what's going on there, people

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Siju George
On Jan 5, 2008 8:51 PM, Karthik Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pardon me for intervening: Its alright :-) http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq13.html#javaflash tells the user how to get these things into a clean OpenBSD system. I am sure that it doesn't include the words: Zomg! you have to use

Re: Advice requested on security issues

2008-01-05 Thread Douglas A. Tutty
On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 11:28:18PM -0500, Nick Holland wrote: Rusty Gadd wrote: I am seeking advice on the security aspects of the configuration of my home system. I have 2 PC's, connected to the internet via a firewalled NAT router. The main PC is an i386 P4 used for general computing, the

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Unix Fan
As I've said, I think it's acceptable for free applications to run on non-free platforms (and say that they do), because this doesn't recommend the installation of those non-free platforms. But free systems should not recommend, suggest, or offer to install non-free apps. What is an

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Siju George
On Jan 5, 2008 9:58 PM, Karthik Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On another hand we are not GNU/GPL and we don't mind our users installing non free software if it is what they want. The FAQ is where this needs to be documented for users to get their job done faster. If you don't mind users

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 08:47:16AM -0600, Gilles Chehade wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:53:30AM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 05:49:42PM -0600, Gilles Chehade wrote: Why didn't you answer my mail Rui ? You are a troll. Either I did and you missed

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread William Boshuck
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 09:58:47PM +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: On another hand we are not GNU/GPL and we don't mind our users installing non free software if it is what they want. The FAQ is where this needs to be documented for users to get their job done faster. If you don't mind

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Karthik Kumar
Again this is for RMS. He does not fix the problem at his end. those are 1) Apologize for slandering other projects who don't come under his control. 2) Do Research to find out the truth 3) Be practical ( Demon+wget ) And all he does is is complain. 1) I made a minor mistake. 2)

Re: [Fwd: Open-Hardware]

2008-01-05 Thread Marco Peereboom
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 12:54:05AM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: But I think the FPGAs in products are more like the possible computer in my microwave oven: nobody installs software in them, so they might as well be circuits. Really? All those wifi/raid/cpu/etc

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 09:58:47PM +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: On another hand we are not GNU/GPL and we don't mind our users installing non free software if it is what they want. The FAQ is where this needs to be documented for users to get their job done faster. If you don't mind

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread johan beisser
On Jan 5, 2008, at 6:31 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: I doubt I would have looked at the AROS web site myself. To find out the status of the BSD systems, recently, I asked the FSF staff to check for me. Wait, you have someone else do the research, and this persons opinions get reflected in

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Karthik Kumar
On Jan 5, 2008 11:20 PM, William Boshuck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 09:58:47PM +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: On another hand we are not GNU/GPL and we don't mind our users installing non free software if it is what they want. The FAQ is where this needs to be

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:28:24PM +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: You are talking about unrelated matters, and mixing our goals with the ones of your own community. I represent neither FSF nor OpenBSD. I probably represent the community which listens to the propagandas put across by both

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Karthik Kumar
Then you are misunderstanding OpenBSD's goals which are clearly stated at the link I provided you and that you obviously failed to read. I understand the goals that are not written on that page: do what you like and fight for what you believe in. Goals are just text written in a stupid web

Re: delete deleted data

2008-01-05 Thread L
It was shareware/trialware and I am looking for the name of it... usually it is right on my Wiki when I make notes.. but I can't find it there yet. L505 Kasper Revsbech wrote: Are you willing to share the names of those programs ? Kind regards Kasper L wrote: One thing I found was that

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread Marco Peereboom
That's clearly a rhetorical question. On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 07:30:36AM -0800, johan beisser wrote: On Jan 5, 2008, at 6:31 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: I doubt I would have looked at the AROS web site myself. To find out the status of the BSD systems, recently, I asked the FSF staff to

Re: OT YAG Re: delete deleted data

2008-01-05 Thread Shane J Pearson
On 06/01/2008, at 1:57 AM, Diana Eichert wrote: Any EE worth their weight in salt understands signal processing. I do believe a lot of younger engineers have grown up in the 1 0 digital world and forget about analog. I think the first computers I witnessed in a work place, were actually

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Karthik Kumar
On Jan 5, 2008 10:56 PM, Gilles Chehade [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 09:58:47PM +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: On another hand we are not GNU/GPL and we don't mind our users installing non free software if it is what they want. The FAQ is where this needs to be

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread L
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 08:47:16AM -0600, Gilles Chehade wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:53:30AM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 05:49:42PM -0600, Gilles Chehade wrote: Why didn't you answer my mail Rui ? You are a

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Siju George
On Jan 5, 2008 11:24 PM, Karthik Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I said everybody, I meant Everybody. Not one person. Applying the same to OpenBSD, all that the people here do is bitch about and nothing more. NO! people here are not bitching, May be you are. People here are setting the

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread L
Unix Fan wrote: As I've said, I think it's acceptable for free applications to run on non-free platforms (and say that they do), because this doesn't recommend the installation of those non-free platforms. But free systems should not recommend, suggest, or offer

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread johan beisser
[slight legibility edit] On Jan 5, 2008, at 9:39 AM, Marco Peereboom wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 07:30:36AM -0800, johan beisser wrote: On Jan 5, 2008, at 6:31 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: I doubt I would have looked at the AROS web site myself. To find out the status of the BSD

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Siju George
On Jan 5, 2008 11:28 PM, Karthik Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I represent neither FSF nor OpenBSD. I probably represent the community which listens to the propagandas put across by both but wants to fight back against false marketing and for the right things TM. This is your website right?

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 05:53:40PM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 08:47:16AM -0600, Gilles Chehade wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:53:30AM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 05:49:42PM -0600, Gilles Chehade wrote: Why didn't you

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread Ray Percival
On Jan 5, 2008, at 9:53, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 08:47:16AM -0600, Gilles Chehade wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:53:30AM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 05:49:42PM -0600, Gilles Chehade wrote: Why didn't you

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Siju George
On Jan 5, 2008 11:24 PM, Karthik Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: all that the people here do is bitch about and nothing more. Most of the devs in here are busy coding and not contributing to this thread. Theo and a few others were forced to respond because their project is being slandered and

Re: OT YAG Re: delete deleted data

2008-01-05 Thread Diana Eichert
On Sun, 6 Jan 2008, Shane J Pearson wrote: SNIP Where a mix of humans, transistors, valves, gears and three-phase motors/sensors, got the job done.;-) Shane No coal and steam? I had to say it. diana

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread Alexander Terekhov
Hello mini-RMS, Happy New Year greetings from gnu.misc.discuss! :-) On Jan 5, 2008 6:53 PM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I'm not from the FSF. Yeah, yeah. You're a kind of Richard Bruce Dick Cheney of National Association for Free Software, aren't you? A kind of fsf

amd64 assembly registers behavior and function calls

2008-01-05 Thread Brian
Are register values preserved between function calls on amd64? I'm pretty sure they are whipped out on i386, but I'm sure about amd64. Do I need to write parameters to %rbp offset, then follow the x86-abi for registers to write to before making the function call? When I disassemble C code, it

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Tony Abernethy
Siju George wrote: On Jan 5, 2008 11:24 PM, Karthik Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I said everybody, I meant Everybody. Not one person. Applying the same to OpenBSD, all that the people here do is bitch about and nothing more. NO! people here are not bitching, May be you

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:39:17PM +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: Here is one: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2005-March/081313.html Notice how Theo talks about because their firmware images were not free enough to ship in our releases I suppose you can now explain the

Re: OT YAG Re: delete deleted data

2008-01-05 Thread johan beisser
On Jan 5, 2008, at 8:06 AM, Shane J Pearson wrote: I think the first computers I witnessed in a work place, were actually analog computers (Navy). Where a mix of humans, transistors, valves, gears and three-phase motors/sensors, got the job done.;-) They're still in use as of the

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:51:39PM +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: Then you are misunderstanding OpenBSD's goals which are clearly stated at the link I provided you and that you obviously failed to read. I understand the goals that are not written on that page: do what you like and fight for

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Karthik Kumar
On Jan 6, 2008 12:26 AM, Siju George [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 5, 2008 11:28 PM, Karthik Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I represent neither FSF nor OpenBSD. I probably represent the community which listens to the propagandas put across by both but wants to fight back against false

Re: Advice requested on security issues

2008-01-05 Thread Russell Gadd
On 05/01/2008, Douglas A. Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2: Space for the P3 is limited and I would like to remove its printer and print bank statements across the LAN on the main PC (running Linux, or maybe FreeBSD in future) using CUPS. Does this introduce security risks? Why

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread Eliah Kagan
On Jan 5, 2008 12:53 PM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: 4) FYI I think the wine project is counter-productive as it enables running non-free software on free software operating systems, and as such de-incentivates the creation of replacements. 4.1) but it's free software and its authors

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Andrés
Richard, isn't: Run GNOME in a **VMWare Player** in a Linux virtual machine. Or: Run GNOME on a virtual machine using QEMU on Linux or **Parallels** for **Mac** or Linux. promoting the use of non-free software? http://torrent.gnome.org/ GNOME _is_ a GNU package. Greetings!

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Andrés
Richard, Linux is not free software, as you have already stated, please change your religion, so users don't get confused. Emacs was originally a text editor, but it became a way of life and a religion. To join the Church of Emacs, you need only say the Confession of the Faith three times: There

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Jacob Grydholt Jensen
On 05/01/2008, Karthik Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use ports. I am not dumb. :P The goals do not specify to encourage people to use non-free software, but I see that happening anyway. And so what? I think you were trying to prove that OpenBSD were not living up to their goals. Instead

Re: OT YAG Re: delete deleted data

2008-01-05 Thread STeve Andre'
On Saturday 05 January 2008 09:57:54 Diana Eichert wrote: Okay, someone touched on this so I'll follow it a little further. Say you pull the platter(s) out of the drive and now start analysing the data as analog voltage levels and not highs/lows with threshold. Also, get the data off the

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread William Boshuck
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:28:24PM +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: I represent neither FSF nor OpenBSD. I probably represent the community which listens to the propagandas put across by both but wants to fight back against false marketing and for the right things TM. Great. The first step is

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Karthik Kumar
Firmware are not free enough when they have a license that does not allow them to be redistributed with the system. You are talking of free as in freedom and not price, right? If the whole point was to avoid paying $$$ in OpenBSD, my bad. -- Gilles Chehade -- Karthik

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Tony Abernethy
Karthik Kumar wrote: On Jan 5, 2008 11:20 PM, William Boshuck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 09:58:47PM +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: On another hand we are not GNU/GPL and we don't mind our users installing non free software if it is what they want. The FAQ is

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Reid Nichol
--- Karthik Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use of non-free software is highly harmful to your computer and ethics. Please cite a piece of software that can harm my computer merely because it is non-free in the FSF/GNU sense. And you should probably qualify that ethics remark with: Should you

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Marco Peereboom
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:51:39PM +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: Then you are misunderstanding OpenBSD's goals which are clearly stated at the link I provided you and that you obviously failed to read. I understand the goals that are not written on that page: do what you like and fight for

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Shane J Pearson
On 06/01/2008, at 3:28 AM, Karthik Kumar wrote: On another hand we are not GNU/GPL and we don't mind our users installing non free software if it is what they want. The FAQ is where this needs to be documented for users to get their job done faster. If you don't mind users using non-free

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
Oh, the real troll just arrived (one more list where he get's to the kill file). On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 07:52:34PM +0100, Alexander Terekhov wrote: On Jan 5, 2008 6:53 PM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I'm not from the FSF. Yeah, yeah. You're a kind of Richard

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread William Boshuck
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:39:17PM +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: On Jan 5, 2008 11:20 PM, William Boshuck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 09:58:47PM +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: On another hand we are not GNU/GPL and we don't mind our users installing non free

Re: Advice requested on security issues

2008-01-05 Thread Jussi Peltola
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:36:04AM -0500, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: Perhaps you could use the banking machine as your main access point, running apps on the main box via ssh. Would that introduce any insecurity in the banking machine? I certainly wouldn't do sensitive things on an X server with

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread Jacob Grydholt Jensen
(apologies to Karthik who will receive this mail twice) On 05/01/2008, Karthik Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 5, 2008 11:20 PM, William Boshuck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 09:58:47PM +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: On another hand we are not GNU/GPL and we don't mind

Suggested PF Setup when using BitTorrent?

2008-01-05 Thread Brian
Is there any suggested PF setup when using BitTorrent? Right now, the biggest problem I have when using BitTorrent is watchdog timeouts. Thanks, Brian Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread William Boshuck
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 05:53:40PM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: ... you distribute non-free software. It has been pointed out on numerous occasions that this is a false statement. No, I am a victim Only because you elect to remain uninformed.

Re: amd64 assembly registers behavior and function calls

2008-01-05 Thread Ted Unangst
On 1/5/08, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are register values preserved between function calls on amd64? I'm pretty sure they are whipped out on i386, but I'm sure about amd64. Do I need to write parameters to %rbp offset, then follow the x86-abi for registers to write to before making the

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread L
Reid Nichol wrote: --- Karthik Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use of non-free software is highly harmful to your computer and ethics. Please cite a piece of software that can harm my computer merely because it is non-free in the FSF/GNU sense. And you should probably qualify that

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread L
Karthik Kumar wrote: Firmware are not free enough when they have a license that does not allow them to be redistributed with the system. You are talking of free as in freedom and not price, right? If the whole point was to avoid paying $$$ in OpenBSD, my bad. The GNG foundation

Re: Real men don't attack straw men

2008-01-05 Thread L
Karthik Kumar wrote: It's been a while since I removed links on that page. And for the information I very much use OpenBSD. Maybe I should change the title to Free as in beer OSes. No. Free is free. Free as in beer is unethical to children who view the website and wonder what beer tastes

Re: delete deleted data

2008-01-05 Thread L
Unix Fan wrote: L wrote: Restoring files from FAT partitions is easy.. I use fatback(http://sf.net/projects/fatback)... I will check that one out.. But either way, no such utility exists to restore data that has been overwritten.. regardless of the algorithms used. Unless

Re: Richard Stallman...

2008-01-05 Thread Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 01:51:22PM -0500, Eliah Kagan wrote: On Jan 5, 2008 12:53 PM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: 4) FYI I think the wine project is counter-productive as it enables running non-free software on free software operating systems, and as such de-incentivates the

Re: Running dhclient on CARP interfaces

2008-01-05 Thread Rolf Sommerhalder
The really cool combination of CARP and ifstated enabled a nice work-around. The attached ifstated.conf works great in my active-passive firewall cluster setup. At least it survived all violent testing conducted over the past few hours. But it still needs to prove itself in the longer term.

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