Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Hi, Ingo Schwarze wrote on Thu, May 24, 2018 at 09:15:29PM +0200: > justina colmena wrote on Thu, May 24, 2018 at 05:54:45PM +: >> On Wed, 23 May 2018 11:47:47 +0200 Marko Cupac wrote: >>> I am sure OpenBSD will correct their errors in html/css code, if any, >> Right now,

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

:04 PM (GMT-09:00) To: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones I don't understand what you are trying to say. I took and iPhone with iOS and Safari ( i think!) on it and pointed the browser to the current link of man pages [1]. All i can say is the

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Hi Justina, justina colmena wrote on Thu, May 24, 2018 at 05:54:45PM +: > On Wed, 23 May 2018 11:47:47 +0200 > Marko Cupać wrote: >> I am sure OpenBSD will correct their errors in html/css code, if any, > Right now, https://man.openbsd.org/relayd.conf.5 fails html

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On Wed, 23 May 2018 11:47:47 +0200 Marko Cupać wrote: > I am sure OpenBSD will correct their errors in html/css code, if any, Right now, https://man.openbsd.org/relayd.conf.5 fails html validation.

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On May 2018 Multiple list members wrote: > I took and iPhone with iOS and Safari ( i think!) on it and pointed > the browser to the current link of man pages [1]. All i can say is the > layout is displayed on full display, not stretched. > Text is fine, paragraphs are scaled ok, not even a simple

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 06:35:17AM +0300, li...@wrant.com wrote: > For younger UNIX users, the real reason is technical limits of hardware then. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card#IBM_80-column_punched_card_format_and_character_codes >

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Fri, 18 May 2018 02:47:29 +0200 Ingo Schwarze > Hi Aner, > > Aner Perez wrote on Thu, May 17, 2018 at 06:32:44PM -0400: > > On 05/17/2018 05:22 PM, x...@dr.com wrote: > >> "Ingo Schwarze" wrote: > > >>> Absolutely not. > >>> Mandoc output is not

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Thank you Ingo, http://man.openbsd.org/ works great for me too now. -- I've found some more OpenBSD web pages that could benefit from readable text on phone devices: - httpd, all directory listings. sample: http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/6.3/i386/ - cvsweb, all pages:

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On 05/19/18 00:04, Mihai Popescu wrote: I don't understand what you are trying to say. I took and iPhone with iOS and Safari ( i think!) on it and pointed the browser to the current link of man pages [1]. All i can say is the layout is displayed on full display, not stretched. Text is fine,

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On Saturday, May 19, 2018, Mihai Popescu wrote: > > I don't understand what you are trying to say. > > I took and iPhone with iOS and Safari ( i think!) on it and pointed > the browser to the current link of man pages [1]. All i can say is the > layout is displayed on full

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

ubject: Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones > I don't understand what you are trying to say. I took and iPhone with iOS and Safari ( i think!) on it and pointed the browser to the current link of man pages [1]. All i can say is the layout is displayed on full display, not

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

> I don't understand what you are trying to say. I took and iPhone with iOS and Safari ( i think!) on it and pointed the browser to the current link of man pages [1]. All i can say is the layout is displayed on full display, not stretched. Text is fine, paragraphs are scaled ok, not even a simple

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Hi, Mihai Popescu wrote on Fri, May 18, 2018 at 11:50:24PM +0300: > I have tested it on someone's Safari/iOS for iPhone, out of curiosity. > It takes the full screen. Looking at the font in the posted > screenshots i think it is Android in question. I don't understand what you are trying to

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On Fri, 18 May 2018 23:50:24 +0300 Mihai Popescu wrote: > I have tested it on someone's Safari/iOS for iPhone, out of curiosity. > It takes the full screen. Looking at the font in the posted > screenshots i think it is Android in question. > > If it is not a secret, what runs

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

> > > If it is not a secret, what runs behind man.openbsd.org? Like httpd, CGI? > According to response headers: "Server: OpenBSD httpd". And with httpd(8) it must be FastCGI implemented either by perl script directly or with aid of slowcgi(8)

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

I have tested it on someone's Safari/iOS for iPhone, out of curiosity. It takes the full screen. Looking at the font in the posted screenshots i think it is Android in question. If it is not a secret, what runs behind man.openbsd.org? Like httpd, CGI? Thanks.

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Hi Lars, Lars Nooden wrote on Fri, May 18, 2018 at 06:37:26PM +0300: > 2) Regarding CSS, keeping the viewport settings in the CSS would > allow the presentation and structure to remain more separate. Exactly what i said in my last mail, it doesn't belong into the HTML. > So something

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

1) For experimentation with CSS, many browsers have a web tool box that can be opened with ctrl-shift-i or similar shortcut and can change the CSS on-the-fly manually. That is a quick way test CSS rules such as the viewport [1] rule being discussed. This seems to be the CSS equivalent of the

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Marc Espie wrote on Wed, May 16, 2018 at 11:28:31AM +0200: > On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 10:51:43PM +0200, Ingo Schwarze wrote: >> x...@dr.com wrote on Tue, May 15, 2018 at 07:47:45PM +0200: >>> The "viewport" meta tag significantly improves readability and >>> usability on my phone when I add it to

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 02:47:29AM +0200, Ingo Schwarze wrote: > Hi Aner, > > Aner Perez wrote on Thu, May 17, 2018 at 06:32:44PM -0400: > > On 05/17/2018 05:22 PM, x...@dr.com wrote: > >> "Ingo Schwarze" wrote: > > >>> Absolutely not. > >>> Mandoc output is not optimized for

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

schwa...@usta.de (Ingo Schwarze), 2018.05.18 (Fri) 02:47 (CEST): > Hi Aner, > > Aner Perez wrote on Thu, May 17, 2018 at 06:32:44PM -0400: > > On 05/17/2018 05:22 PM, x...@dr.com wrote: > >> "Ingo Schwarze" wrote: > > >>> Absolutely not. > >>> Mandoc output is not optimized

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On May 18, 2018 4:09:58 AM GMT+02:00, Ken M wrote: >In all honesty I wasn't thinking of the suggestion as a cautious one >because of >bloat. I think bootstrap minified and compressed is like 20k. I mean >how big is >the entire man page collection? Well, bloat isn't only

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On May 17 22:09:58, k...@mack-z.com wrote: > In all honesty I wasn't thinking of the suggestion as a cautious one because > of > bloat. I think bootstrap minified and compressed is like 20k. I mean how big > is > the entire man page collection? Wrong question. $ ftp http://man.openbsd.org/du $

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

In article <20180518004729.gl68...@athene.usta.de> Ingo Schwarze wrote: > Hi Aner, > > Aner Perez wrote on Thu, May 17, 2018 at 06:32:44PM -0400: > > On 05/17/2018 05:22 PM, x...@dr.com wrote: > >> "Ingo Schwarze" wrote: > > >>> Absolutely not. > >>> Mandoc

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

"Ingo Schwarze" wrote: > > html { max-width: 100ex; } > > > > Removing this line allows the use of the full browser width. > For testing purposes, i removed that line from > https://man.openbsd.org/mandoc.css > > xcv@, could you check with your phone whether

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On 05/18/2018 06:11 AM, Stuart Longland wrote: > On 18/05/18 12:09, Ken M wrote: >> In all honesty I wasn't thinking of the suggestion as a cautious one because >> of >> bloat. I think bootstrap minified and compressed is like 20k. I mean how big >> is >> the entire man page collection? > >

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

If you REALLY want something like we had, without JS and non-standard features, you can try something like: @media screen and (min-width: 1000px) { html { max-width: 100ex } html { max-width: 80ch } } The @media queries is a long-standing feature and should just work. The "ch" isn't supported by

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On 18/05/18 12:09, Ken M wrote: > In all honesty I wasn't thinking of the suggestion as a cautious one because > of > bloat. I think bootstrap minified and compressed is like 20k. I mean how big > is > the entire man page collection? 20kB may not sound like a lot, but consider, say, the `sh`

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On Fri, 18 May 2018 02:47:29 +0200, Ingo Schwarze wrote: > I must say i never particularly liked that line in the CSS file. > It always felt like fiddling with details that it might be better > not to touch, given that display devices running browsers differ > more than terminal emulators. And

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

In all honesty I wasn't thinking of the suggestion as a cautious one because of bloat. I think bootstrap minified and compressed is like 20k. I mean how big is the entire man page collection? I was more hesitant to make the suggestion because if there was ever a community that en masse browsed

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Hi Ken, Ken M wrote on Thu, May 17, 2018 at 08:50:53PM -0400: > I will probably have to duck and run > for suggesting javascript as the answer here... Precisely. :) > But for the most part the modern industry standard to make pages > scale well across many devices and screen orientations is

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

I will probably have to duck and run for suggesting javascript as the answer here... But for the most part the modern industry standard to make pages scale well across many devices and screen orientations is to use a responsive design library, most notably bootstrap. Ken On Fri, May 18, 2018 at

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Hi Aner, Aner Perez wrote on Thu, May 17, 2018 at 06:32:44PM -0400: > On 05/17/2018 05:22 PM, x...@dr.com wrote: >> "Ingo Schwarze" wrote: >>> Absolutely not. >>> Mandoc output is not optimized for any device. >>> >>> Which elements or rules in the current HTML or CSS code >>>

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On Thu, 17 May 2018 18:32:44 -0400 Aner Perez wrote: > First non-comment line of mandoc.css says: > > html {max-width: 100ex; } > > Removing this line allows the use of the full browser width. I'm > sure that it was put there for a reason (maybe to approximate

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On 05/17/2018 05:22 PM, x...@dr.com wrote: "Ingo Schwarze" wrote: Absolutely not. Mandoc output is not optimized for any device. Which elements or rules in the current HTML or CSS code make you think it is optimized or it discriminates against any device? I don't know

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

"Ingo Schwarze" wrote: > Absolutely not. > Mandoc output is not optimized for any device. > > Which elements or rules in the current HTML or CSS code > make you think it is optimized or it discriminates against > any device? I don't know which element or rule is the problem,

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Hi Marc, Marc Espie wrote on Wed, May 16, 2018 at 11:28:31AM +0200: > On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 10:51:43PM +0200, Ingo Schwarze wrote: >> x...@dr.com wrote on Tue, May 15, 2018 at 07:47:45PM +0200: >>> The "viewport" meta tag significantly improves readability and >>> usability on my phone when I

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Hi, x...@dr.com wrote on Thu, May 17, 2018 at 05:04:12PM +0200: > I think it boils down to the site being optimized > for common PC screen sizes, Absolutely not. Mandoc output is not optimized for any device. Which elements or rules in the current HTML or CSS code make you think it is

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

"Ingo Schwarze" wrote: > I'm absolutely uninterested in test results. I understand that many times the designer of a web site may have different priorities than I do. Nevertheless, when a site performs poorly I can only: - close the tab and open another site - try to persuade

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On 00:26 Wed 16 May, Solene Rapenne wrote: > See no offence here, I wonder what is the context leading to read man > pages on a phone? Because OpenBSD distributes it's documentation in man pages. There is no standalone documentation site.

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 10:51:43PM +0200, Ingo Schwarze wrote: > Hi, > > x...@dr.com wrote on Tue, May 15, 2018 at 07:47:45PM +0200: > > > The "viewport" meta tag significantly improves readability and > > usability on my phone when I add it to http://man.openbsd.org pages: > > > > [meta

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Hi Solene, Solene Rapenne wrote on Wed, May 16, 2018 at 12:26:10AM +0200: > x...@dr.com writes: >> The "viewport" meta tag significantly improves readability and >> usability on my phone when I add it to http://man.openbsd.org pages: > See no offence here, I wonder what is the context leading

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Also great for when you need reading material in the restroom. On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 4:34 PM, Marc Espie wrote: > On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 12:26:10AM +0200, Solene Rapenne wrote: > > > > x...@dr.com writes: > > > > > The "viewport" meta tag significantly improves readability

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 12:26:10AM +0200, Solene Rapenne wrote: > > x...@dr.com writes: > > > The "viewport" meta tag significantly improves readability and > > usability on my phone when I add it to http://man.openbsd.org pages: > > See no offence here, I wonder what is the context leading to

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

x...@dr.com writes: > The "viewport" meta tag significantly improves readability and > usability on my phone when I add it to http://man.openbsd.org pages: See no offence here, I wonder what is the context leading to read man pages on a phone?

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

"Ingo Schwarze" wrote: > But you fail to state what the actual problem is that you are > trying to solve. The pages at http://man.openbsd.org/ don't use the screen real estate of my phone in a sensible way. All pages are "zoomed out" by default, causing a frustrating user

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

On 2018-05-15 22.51.43 +0200, Ingo Schwarze wrote: > x...@dr.com wrote on Tue, May 15, 2018 at 07:47:45PM +0200: > > [meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0"] > > It is not defined in any standard. I have no objection to the rest of your email -- in fact, I agree

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Hi, x...@dr.com wrote on Tue, May 15, 2018 at 07:47:45PM +0200: > The "viewport" meta tag significantly improves readability and > usability on my phone when I add it to http://man.openbsd.org pages: > > [meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0"] There is no way i

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Tue, 15 May 2018 20:46:44 +0200 x...@dr.com > > Tue, 15 May 2018 19:47:45 +0200 x...@dr.com > > > The "viewport" meta tag significantly improves readability and > > > usability on my phone when I add it to http://man.openbsd.org pages: > > > > Hi anonymous, > > > > Could you please add it

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

> Tue, 15 May 2018 19:47:45 +0200 x...@dr.com > > The "viewport" meta tag significantly improves readability and > > usability on my phone when I add it to http://man.openbsd.org pages: > > Hi anonymous, > > Could you please add it on some public space so I can check in Dillo too? > > Kind

Re: Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

Tue, 15 May 2018 19:47:45 +0200 x...@dr.com > The "viewport" meta tag significantly improves readability and > usability on my phone when I add it to http://man.openbsd.org pages: Hi anonymous, Could you please add it on some public space so I can check in Dillo too? Kind regards, Anton

Viewport for man.openbsd.org -- readability on phones

The "viewport" meta tag significantly improves readability and usability on my phone when I add it to http://man.openbsd.org pages: [meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0"] It was suggested to me by a Microsoft Edge engineer as a fix for mobile-unfriendly web