2014-06-29 13:40 GMT+02:00 Antoine Jacoutot ajacou...@bsdfrog.org:
So first you comment on Ian's GSoC and now on systemd... thai is confusing.
I don't care about systemd we will never have it. We just need some
interfaces
that are currently only implemented in systemd.
This is the right
Hello, I'm ballsystemlord from the Opensuse forums and I've been reading
a lot about how systemd is unportable, even for use with some linux
programs and the systemd devs are not concerned about it. I, as a single
person, can't possibly hope to maintain the old sysVinit system and also
systemd
On 2014-06-28, Kenneth Westerback kwesterb...@gmail.com wrote:
On 28 June 2014 13:55, frank ernest do...@mail.com wrote:
Hello, I'm ballsystemlord from the Opensuse forums and I've been reading
a lot about how systemd is unportable, even for use with some linux
programs and the systemd devs
On 29 Jun 2014, at 13:43, Antoine Jacoutot ajacou...@bsdfrog.org wrote:
Why are people poluting our lists with systemd rants??? There is nothing to
discuss since we do not want and will never have systemd. If you don't
understand what the systemd-utl GSoC is about then move along.
First
Ok then my counter argument will be: second of all, this is misc@
Franco Fichtner slash...@gmail.com wrote:
On 29 Jun 2014, at 13:43, Antoine Jacoutot ajacou...@bsdfrog.org wrote:
Why are people poluting our lists with systemd rants??? There is nothing to
discuss since we do not want
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 10:38:22PM -0400, bofh wrote:
Was reading http://boycottsystemd.org/ and they wrote:
The OpenBSD Foundation is currently developing OS-agnostic, BSD-licensed
replacements http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/gsoc2014.html#systemd,
which will likely prove the most viable
What the hell does this have to do with OpenBSD?
i...@aulix.com wrote:
> There are IMHO a few of good systemD free Linux distros:
> Devuan - Debian without systemD
> Parabola - Arch without systemD
>
> Alpine unfortunately lacks verification of checksums of earlier ins
There are IMHO a few of good systemD free Linux distros:
Devuan - Debian without systemD
Parabola - Arch without systemD
Alpine unfortunately lacks verification of checksums of earlier installed files.
Like wajig integrity (debsums) in Devuan.
More info about verification:
https
https://uglyman.kremlin.cc/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=systemd-utl.git There
is either something wrong with the web page or firefox as it mentions
that the connection was reset while the page was loading. However,
I've used
you probably caught me in the middle of a reboot
yet. But I wanted to know
So first you comment on Ian's GSoC and now on systemd... thai is confusing. I
don't care about systemd we will never have it. We just need some interfaces
that are currently only implemented in systemd.
Eric Furman ericfur...@fastmail.net wrote:
My real helpful comments are that it violates
hi!
i'm a student working on four DBus daemons that emulate the behavior of
systemd ones as to allow porting code that depends on systemd less of a
hassle
i've set up gitweb to track my progress, you can find it here:
https://uglyman.kremlin.cc/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=systemd-utl.git;
the 'master
that doesn't make the slightest sense.
pure C can be and often is perfectly portable.
those were not the right words, i meant to convey that because systemd
uses its own DBus binding (and not an already-ported lib like
GIO/GDbus) it would be difficult to port, as that binding is seemingly
very
I intend to produce the four systemd utilities as outlined on the
OpenBSD Foundation's web page, ... This seems unclear to me what you are
refering to http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/ does not contain, as far as
I could see, any software specs/ideas. And, though this sounds quite
pretty, are you
2014-06-29 1:05 GMT+02:00 ian kremlin i...@kremlin.cc:
that bsd is being crowded out, a thought that had not crossed my mind.
I wanted to know, before assuming that it is the case everywhere, do
people really not like systemd and is it really hurting bsd? If so,
I'd be interested in doing
On 6/30/2014 19:31, frank ernest wrote:
If I'm posting to the wrong bsd list kindly redirect me to the correct
one, I thought misc was best.
https://uglyman.kremlin.cc/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=systemd-utl.git There is
According to the page about the project on the Google Summer of Code
2014
Hi,
Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount wrote:
I'm in the middle of leaving Debian after almost 15 years of using it, due to
the systemd affair. And as you might guess it has not been easy, I have enough
(personal) systems and experience invested to leave Debian only for a tantrum
On 28 June 2014 13:55, frank ernest do...@mail.com wrote:
Hello, I'm ballsystemlord from the Opensuse forums and I've been reading
a lot about how systemd is unportable, even for use with some linux
programs and the systemd devs are not concerned about it. I, as a single
person, can't possibly
that bsd is being crowded out, a thought that had not crossed my mind.
I wanted to know, before assuming that it is the case everywhere, do
people really not like systemd and is it really hurting bsd? If so,
I'd be interested in doing something about it. Thanks, David
yes, systemd has become
Em 28-06-2014 20:39, Stuart Henderson escreveu:
Even a significant number of Linux users I've talked to about it really
don't like systemd.
Hate it. Made all my linux based systems slower.
Just looking at the pid 1 part and ignoring the rest, there are way too
many tentacles (library
My real helpful comments are that it violates every real concept of UNIX
Do ONE thing and do it WELL
Systemd does none of these things.
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014, at 04:51 AM, Antoine Jacoutot wrote:
https://uglyman.kremlin.cc/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=systemd-utl.git;a=blob;f=scripts/gen-gdbus
Was reading http://boycottsystemd.org/ and they wrote:
The OpenBSD Foundation is currently developing OS-agnostic, BSD-licensed
replacements http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/gsoc2014.html#systemd,
which will likely prove the most viable.
Is this even something that's being worked on?
http
On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 22:38:00 +0300
Consus wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 03:12:18PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> > last I checked, systemd was not modular, was poorly documented,
> > exhibited incompatibilities with basically all historical
> > interfaces, and had introdu
For starters, there is 100% consensus among developers that we'll never
use newfangled overengineered stuff like System V init.
You mean Upstart!
or wait
You mean systemd!
You mean systemd!
You'd need udev in the core system. And everybody knows daemontools/runit is
the past, present, and future of init systems.
refering to http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/ does not contain, as far
as
http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/gsoc2014.html Umm, there are at least
24 links on that page to various projects that need done, to which are
you refering?
Was reading http://boycottsystemd.org/ and they wrote:
The OpenBSD Foundation is currently developing OS-agnostic, BSD-licensed
replacements http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/gsoc2014.html#systemd,
which will likely prove the most viable.
Is this even something that's being worked
And what about performance?
Is tmpfs or mfs faster? Is one or another more resource hungry?
--
Furthermore, I consider that systemd must be destroyed
Latin oratorical phrase
There are already enough funny pages about systemd technical deviations, e.g.:
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3427
https://uglyman.kremlin.cc/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=systemd-utl.git;a=blob;f=scripts/gen-gdbus-interfaces.sh;h=f827434d0211ea8765c075fdb2916386ffc16ecb;hb=HEAD
btw. it's bashism in a posix shell suit?
If that is all you were able to spot then move along :-)
It's very pre-alpha WIP and many things
place. The only thing systemd does is hits
> the controlling process on the head with a known conf-reload signal or
> (gasp) a DBus control statement. Both of these can be done just as
> well with an rc script, and without restarting the service.
What systemd has to do with anything?
system’s newfangled orchestration service, systemd."
>
As if I needed another reason to intensely dislike systemd...
--
Aaron Mason - Programmer, open source addict
I've taken my software vows - for beta or for worse
On 28 Jun 2014, at 19:55, frank ernest do...@mail.com wrote:
wanted to know, before assuming that it is the case everywhere, do people
really not like systemd and is it really hurting bsd? If so, I'd be
interested in doing something about it. Thanks, David
A fact is that systemd slowly tears
whereas pgroups do not
this is a question of policy, not api:
1. if a program double-forks, that program has made it clear that it
does not need the destructors scripted in systemd implementation,
and is eligible for being terminated by the generic, all-encompasing,
sysv killall(), linux killall5
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 08:46:27PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
Was reading http://boycottsystemd.org/ and they wrote:
The OpenBSD Foundation is currently developing OS-agnostic, BSD-licensed
replacements http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/gsoc2014.html#systemd,
which will likely prove
If I'm posting to the wrong bsd list kindly redirect me to the correct
one, I thought misc was best.
https://uglyman.kremlin.cc/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=systemd-utl.git There is
either something wrong with the web page or firefox as it mentions that
the connection was reset while the page was loading
bian until the forced introduction of systemd and the rest of the crap
> > being considered as 'much better' and 'mandatory'.
>
> Because systemd is good enough "base tools suite". Think of it as a base
> system like OpenBSD provides. It has a _lot_ of issues with reliability,
>
ars with Ultrix/VMS/OpenVMS @DEC: Slackware in the beginning,
> > > then
> > > Debian until the forced introduction of systemd and the rest of the crap
> > > being considered as 'much better' and 'mandatory'.
> >
> > Because systemd is good enough "ba
ars with Ultrix/VMS/OpenVMS @DEC: Slackware in the beginning,
> > > then
> > > Debian until the forced introduction of systemd and the rest of the crap
> > > being considered as 'much better' and 'mandatory'.
> >
> > Because systemd is good enough "base tools
kermlin) is on none of the projects (which is
highly confusing.) Here, I'll post a link for you; is it:
http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/gsoc2014.html#systemd ? Thanks, David
PS: As you requested I've cloned the repo
git://uglyman.kremlin.cc/git/systemd-utl.git I'll look over the code for
you.PPS
years of using it, due to
the systemd affair. And as you might guess it has not been easy, I have enough
(personal) systems and experience invested to leave Debian only for a tantrum,
but there is no easy way to install a new system and avoid systemd, and I guess
this will become worse over time
What does this have to do with OpenBSD?
Steve Litt wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 22:38:00 +0300
> Consus wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 03:12:18PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> > > last I checked, systemd was not modular, was poorly documented,
> >
Hello misc!
I have some information for rspamd users, and one question.
As you may know, rspamd not using pyzor by directly calling pyzor binary.
Instead, they say, you need to create special systemd socket, and call
pyzor through it.
It is described on rspamd manuals:
https://rspamd.com
for Linux (see comment in the above
article about how it's not _his_ fault), and systemd, a replacement for init
that adds cron and inetd functionality in one package, including systemctl
for back-end control (not to be confused with sysctl.)
I guess it really isn't even that funny. Why
place. The only thing systemd does is hits
the controlling process on the head with a known conf-reload signal or
(gasp) a DBus control statement. Both of these can be done just as
well with an rc script, and without restarting the service.
What systemd has to do with anything? We are talking about
D.
> And my complicated pass is typed in FR, and run correctly.
>
> The problem is with GDM, despite the locale.conf and session gnome seted.
On GNOME, kbd locale support is handled by... systemd.
It is documented in the package by the way.
Extract from /usr/local/share/doc/pkg-readmes/gnom
On Thu, 23 Nov 2017, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
[...] It is not like systemd that is replacing an existing system
in a more complex way.
I think, initialisation got always more complex. BSD init is simpler
than Sys V init, systemd went to the extrem. But rc scripts seem
also got always more
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 05:10:14PM +0200, Oddmund G. wrote:
> I know all this, Ottavio. I have been using GNU+Linux since 1994 after
> several years with Ultrix/VMS/OpenVMS @DEC: Slackware in the beginning, then
> Debian until the forced introduction of systemd and the rest of the cra
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Alexander Schrijver
alexander.schrij...@gmail.com wrote:
For starters, there is 100% consensus among developers that we'll never
use newfangled overengineered stuff like System V init.
You mean Upstart!
or wait
You mean systemd!
Or the oddness
to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'
(Doug McIlroy)
In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___
On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 09:02:06PM +0200, emigrant wrote:
You're right, probably pflogrotate script is buggy.
root@master[~]ls /var/log/pflog
ls: /var/log/pflog: No such file or directory
wtf? where is my pflog file? :) interesting, because it worked almost 3 years
Make sure systemd
On 6/28/14, Henning Brauer lists-open...@bsws.de wrote:
* ian kremlin i...@kremlin.cc [2014-06-29 01:05]:
due to its unportability (as it's written in pure C)
that doesn't make the slightest sense.
pure C can be and often is perfectly portable.
i took it as sarcasim.
--patrick
If we are in such dire need of an init system replacement, why has
there not been widespread frenzy as with schedulers, package managers,
packet filters, programming languages and so forth?
Maybe because people don't seem to think the same thing, or feel the
urgency to replace it. But a
refering to http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/ does not contain, as far as
http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/gsoc2014.html
software that you speak of be portable to Linux or is it BSD only? I've
i am planning (post-GSOC) on writing an archlinux PKGBUILD and
eventually a debian package.
streams, because that is a
universal interface'
(Doug McIlroy)
In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 3:38 PM Consus wrote:
> It is modular to a degree, but separating services requires a bit of
> work so yeah, in this area systemd sucks. Documentation is pretty good
> though. I don't like the complexity of the thing, but I've never been
> s
Hi,
So the folks over at my webserver is removing its daemonization feature,
telling its users to use systemd/upstart/a process supervisor instead.
But what does this mean to my webserver's startup script in /etc/rc.d, isn't it
dependent on the webserver's ability to daemonize?
Pretty sure I
't usually get the facts right.
I know all this, Ottavio. I have been using GNU+Linux since 1994 after
several years with Ultrix/VMS/OpenVMS @DEC: Slackware in the beginning,
then Debian until the forced introduction of systemd and the rest of the
crap being considered as 'much better' a
One could easily poke holes in this complaint; the characterization
of PAM as modern is somewhat amusing; it is 1990s technology.
Dafuk. If he's going to nitpick, then so am I. Marc did not say PAM
was modern. He mentioned a modern Linux distro with pulseaudio, pam
and systemd - to infer
On 06/29/14 13:43, Antoine Jacoutot wrote:
Why are people poluting our lists with systemd rants??? There is nothing to
discuss since we do not want and will never have systemd. If you don't
understand what the systemd-utl GSoC is about then move along.
Gustav Fransson Nyvell gus
. If you
can you use the commandline and especially have root acces then this
should be very easy. If not, you will simply configure and reboot.
Lets hope this doesn't become a problem with the take-up of cgroups and
monstrous sized /sbin/init or the rediculously
placed /usr/lib/systemd/systemd
Why are people poluting our lists with systemd rants??? There is nothing to
discuss since we do not want and will never have systemd. If you don't
understand what the systemd-utl GSoC is about then move along.
Gustav Fransson Nyvell gus...@nyvell.se wrote:
On 06/29/14 13:09, bodie wrote
tall OpenBSD.
>> And my complicated pass is typed in FR, and run correctly.
>>
>> The problem is with GDM, despite the locale.conf and session gnome seted.
> On GNOME, kbd locale support is handled by... systemd.
>
> It is documented in the package by the way.
> Extract fr
n the window of investigating your gadget layout is as
insignificant as it can be. Doing it another way only increases that
risk.
> I also avoid to start deamons at boot time that I not need
> at the moment. See it as the opposite of the systemd ideology.
Fair enough but doesn't apply here.
I would prefer to begin from grsecurity, but it is not available up to date for
my budget.
I would also try HardenedBSD, but it is only amd64 now? And how many active
developers there are? one or two?
OpenBSD looks as the only viable option for me right now, may be one another is
a systemd
s the only viable option for me right now, may be one another
> is a systemd free distro like Devuan with a hardened kernel like by @anthrax,
> but I am too unskilled even to understand what are improvements of @anthrax
> kernel for me without a good doc for it in the existence,
!
or wait
You mean systemd!
Or the oddness that is daemontools!!
Hey, wait for me -- launchd from the Mac! :-)
[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which
had a name of smime.p7s]
?
--
___
'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'
(Doug McIlroy)
In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___
thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'
(Doug McIlroy)
In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___
--
___
'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'
(Doug McIlroy)
In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___
* ian kremlin i...@kremlin.cc [2014-06-29 01:05]:
due to its unportability (as it's written in pure C)
that doesn't make the slightest sense.
pure C can be and often is perfectly portable.
--
Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org
BS Web Services GmbH, http://bsws.de, Full-Service
design like polkit or systemd
___
not then.
--
___
'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'
(Doug McIlroy)
In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___
.
There are worse ways of starting up daemons, like systemd.
--
Best regards,
Jorge Lopez.
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
Prior to selling its soul to systemd, Arch Linux used an /etc/rc.local
entry to configure networking. One of the options was a "menu" that
would pause booting and display some pre-configured networking options.
In Arch, the networking options were placed in an /etc/ directory.
The opt
> Because it's a nice way to apply configuration changes made to
> /etc/sysctl.conf without restarting the whole server?
Systemctl doesn't offer hot reload unless the
controlled daemon offers the capability in
the first place. The only thing systemd does
is hits the controlling p
is the only OS I place any real trust in <3
Is probably the only OS they can’t hack.
And SystemD makes me want to both cry and scream at the same time.
A
Sent from a teeny tiny keyboard, so please excuse typos
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 04:05:56PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 3:38 PM Consus wrote:
> > It is modular to a degree, but separating services requires a bit of
> > work so yeah, in this area systemd sucks. Documentation is pretty good
> > though. I don'
chad.hoo...@protonmail.com (Chad Hoolie), 2020.05.03 (Sun) 15:43 (CEST):
> So the folks over at my webserver is removing its daemonization
> feature, telling its users to use systemd/upstart/a process supervisor
> instead.
Ugly move by upstream!
> But what does this mean to my
On Tue, 12 May 2020 at 09:47, wrote:
>
> Is not systemd one of such backdoors? Does it include any interesting
> "features" except so called "init system"?
1) You're asking in the wrong place
2) It's off topic
3) If you need to ask, it means you don't have a cl
difficult to
understand where trolling is in this area of my interest.
Is not systemd one of such backdoors? Does it include any interesting
"features" except so called "init system"?
> do you have "lookup file bind" record in your /etc/resolv.conf file?
This option is not available in the current debian version.
And I have to admit I have no clue what did the dns resolving. NetworkManager
was
disabled, systemd-resolved was disabled, ...
Changes to the /etc/res
I says quite clearly in the second article you posted it can only work
in Linux...
"...Linux distributions add a patch to link sshd to systemd, a program
that loads a variety of services during the system bootup. Systemd, in
turn, links to liblzma, and this allows xz Utils to exert control
*. And you cannot emulate this. (And no, don't
say BSD jail now, because that is something very different). But
this already is at the very core of systemd. It's how systemd tracks
services.
how can someone write this and not explain why a process managing
pgroups can't achieve the same results
). But
this already is at the very core of systemd. It's how systemd tracks
services.
how can someone write this and not explain why a process managing
pgroups can't achieve the same results?
pgroups is going to be the first alternative for someone instinctively
looking for a portable alternative
can you use the commandline and especially have root acces then this
should be very easy. If not, you will simply configure and reboot.
Lets hope this doesn't become a problem with the take-up of cgroups and
monstrous sized /sbin/init or the rediculously
placed /usr/lib/systemd/systemd to cater
systemd doing one thing and doing it well? Sure, it's
opaque, I guess
Not at all and I could write pages about how damaging it is but won't.
I'm successfully abandoning Linux on everything but my TVs and phone
(one day, them too I expect).
Systemd's design page on freedesktop.org (how ironic
Oh yeah, systemd. The new and improved init replacement.
It sure looks less complex,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#mediaviewer/File:Systemd_components.svg
Yeah, I know about net.ifnames=0, but that just gets you back
to the ethX paradigm. So very helpful in a very generic
way. What
Am 02.05.22 19:06 schrieb kasak:
> Hello misc!
>
> I have some information for rspamd users, and one question.
>
> As you may know, rspamd not using pyzor by directly calling pyzor binary.
>
> Instead, they say, you need to create special systemd socket, and
On 2022-05-02, kasak wrote:
> Hello misc!
>
> I have some information for rspamd users, and one question.
>
> As you may know, rspamd not using pyzor by directly calling pyzor binary.
>
> Instead, they say, you need to create special systemd socket, and
ary.
>>
>> Instead, they say, you need to create special systemd socket, and call pyzor
>> through it.
>>
>> It is described on rspamd manuals:
>> https://rspamd.com/doc/modules/external_services.html#pyzor-specific-details
>>
>> OpenBSD does not has s
mood this year against various
devs from RedHat and yet can do shit about them because he's no longer
in control and he knows it. No wonder he choose to focus more on on-line
Linux courses under Linuxfoundation (he will not have so much time for
kernel during those for sure).
Systemd does none
I managed to resolve this issue with some strange workaround.
I must confess, I dont exactly know which service was handling DNS before, as
NetworkManager and systemd-resolved were both disabled.
/etc/resolv.conf was overwritten by each DHCP request.
So I did the following.
I configured
03.05.2022 11:38, Stuart Henderson пишет:
On 2022-05-02, kasak wrote:
Hello misc!
I have some information for rspamd users, and one question.
As you may know, rspamd not using pyzor by directly calling pyzor binary.
Instead, they say, you need to create special systemd socket, and call
.
--
___
'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'
(Doug McIlroy)
In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___
Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___
programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'
(Doug McIlroy)
In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___
that is a
universal interface'
(Doug McIlroy)
In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___
.
--
___
'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'
(Doug McIlroy)
In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___
that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'
(Doug McIlroy)
In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___
thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'
(Doug McIlroy)
In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___
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