Rasheed, Maggie, and emotive moqers
Marco,
i like your three branches of the intellectual division idea. the only thing
i wonder about is how morals are incorporated into the spiritual and
emotional level.
Actually, I was not referring to emotional/artistic and spiritual/mystic
knowledge
Dear Dan,
I renamed the subject, but this is a
reply to your 20/6 11:24 -0500 posting in the True Libertarians Please Stand
Up-thread.
In my contribution of 16/6 21:59 +0200
I suggested that the different levels evolve in analogous ways:
Biological/Social/Intellectual evolution can be
Dear
Stephen,
You wrote 20/6 13:26 +0100 in the
Back on topic-thread:
In relation to Wim's post I
would put it as dynamic quality is a void that can be re-experienced time and
again. As human beings we change at different rates and absorb new static
patterns at different rates and
Gerhard, Marcos, and all,
Gerhard wrote:
I think that is why we can agree based on MoQ, as I see economic activity
as a social
pattern of values. This have been discussed in depth earlier.
In Lila Pirsig states (Chapter 13 Paragraph 27 pg 163 Bantam HC 1991);
Second, there were moral codes
.my earlier post might (big might) make more/some sense if i quote the
uberdood himself
.When A.N.Whitehead wrote that 'nankind is driven forward by dim
apprehensions of things too obscure for its existing language' he was
writing about Dynamic Quality. Dynamic Quality is the
Hi Stephen and all,
. . .Incidentally, doesn't the second law of thermodynamics strongly
suggest that static patterns are not all migrating to an ultimate good? I'm
no stephen hawkings but if the 2nd law is true then isn't that therefore
the state to which all static patterns are migrating,
Dear Glen (AreteLaugh),
I'm afraid I don't really appreciate
being questioned without getting any information about your opinions or
(preferably) experiences (like in your 23/6 09:35 -0700 post), especially as you
questions taste like criticism of my writings. Did you feel attacked by my
Welcome Jeremy...I know you are young, but are you into the Jefferson
Airplane? Pass it around, brother.
Clarke
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Andrea,
It's good to have another female voice on this list; i guess most women arent
really into philosophy (dont tell the Oxygen network i said that). I didnt
really think your post was confusing. i think i need to try drugs before i
can engage in too much intellectual discussion about
For Bo, here is something i found that might illustrate some of the
parallels to what pirsig has in the MOQ and some of the physics research of
david bohm
His textbook on quantum theory, written while still at Princeton, became a
classic for its clarity, always relying on physical argument
I agree with Rasheed. The War on Drugs is immoral. Partly for the reasons
Rasheed mentioned, and I think also because it's targeting the wrong people
and groups of people. The US government believes that the war on drugs can
be won if they rid the US of drug barons getting drugs into the
Hi Marco:
Have a couple of questions. You say emotions are biological. Your cat
purrs and is happy. Later you speak of a *sense of beauty.* Is the
sense of beauty an emotion? If so, how come your cat doesn't respond
to art? Do humans have biologically-based emotions that cat's don't? If
so,
Dear
Paul/Jeremy,
You wrote 24/6 04:00
-0700:
I
also thought about the nature of the pervading 'I', and I thought that 'I am a
wave of thingness'
This reminded me of something I wrote 5
years ago (in Dutch, see www.antenna.nl/wim.nusselder/schrijfsels/genesis3.html):
GENESIS 3
'I' is
As main exponent of the 2nd law in this forum, I reject your assertion and
think that it reflects a lack of understanding of the law.
The law states the direction in which closed systems (including the
universe
as a whole) tend to change over time. It does not tell us if that change
will
Stephen,
Looking for a way to 'permanently experience DQ' contradicts the idea of DQ.
DQ is something that hits in a moment, when a person perceives Quality that
is inextricably connected with the moment in which she perceives it. I like
Pirsig's music example, which basically said that if
Dear Glen
(AreteLaugh),
You wrote 25/6 02:52
-0700:
What remedy would Marco provide to an
unarmed population saddled with a tyrannical government? Learn to like
it?
I would recommend reading M.K. Gandhi
An autobiography, or The story of my experiments with truth,
Ahmedabad: Navajivan,
Hi Sam,
A query from a lurker: why is the universe as a whole considered a closed
system? How do we know whether it is or isn't, or does it follow
automatically from some other (perfectly sensible) prior assumption?
Just curious.
Good question!!! The classical view is that there is one
In a message dated 6/25/01 3:39:56 PM GMT Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This effect, they argued, is central
to quantum mechanics, implying that even quite distant objects can affect
quantum processes. These non-local correlation's have nothing to do with
traditional forms of
Hi Jonathan:
I hope in your new essay for the forum you will explain how novel
qualities arise from the rearrangement of elements that in themselves
lack these qualities. To simply say they emerge is a description, not
an explanation.
I eargerly look forward to your essay, not only for its
Looking for a way to 'permanently experience DQ'was a challenge where i
don't think there's a successful outcome so we agree there.
Quality is in the pre-intellectual perception of
thing.I would call the void an area that is pre-perception and above the
intellectual, when i did martial arts
AreteLaugh and any other that is still interested,
So we disagree on some different items. What troubles me is that I think we both are
basing our argument on MoQ (most of the time) and end up with different answers. I
admit to believe in Utilarism (Jeremy Bentham and John Stuart Mill), and
Hi Rasheed, Platt
Rasheed:
My perception of the 'code of art' was wrong, thanks for clearing it up.
However, because t is in fact a fourth Dynamic morality, doesnt that in
itself point to a fifth level?
Marco:
Who knows? The only important thing is that, fifth or not fifth, we still have
Marco:
Another thing I've noticed is that my cat *prefers* to sleep on clean
dresses, and on my bed when it's well arranged. Otherwise, if the bed is
all messed up, she uses to sleep on an old chair. In the past, another cat
had different fondnesses. I'd not point to that exactly as an
below are some quotes from an interview david bohm gave that i think show
some interesting parallel's with RMP
and the MOQ,the full interview has a link below the quotes so you can see
them in full context.If anyone could help out I tried earlier to locate the
prevoius threads on a 5th order but
Wim Nuesselder
all,
I can be a little
scathing when I think something is obviousand people are being
unreasonable. It is not my intention to insult anyone but to make them
think. I freely admit that my style is very adverserial but please don't
take it personally. I only wish to root out
Wim
Nusselder,
Perhaps it is best
if we agree to disagree on this matter. I will conceed the their are many
paths to the top of the mountain and mine is surely not the only way to the top
(nor is yours). We obviously draw very different conclusions from
thehistoric example of the last
Gerhard,
I am unsure if we should be that troubled by our disagreements over these
issues. I actually became a Libertarian after adopting the MoQ precisely
because I think that the MoQ suports Libertarian ideas. Still we don't
argue about which painting in a gallery is real and which is not do
Hi,
Arete (Glen) asked:
Would you say that Psychedelic music was
not a static pattern of value?
Wim replied:
I know very little about Psychedelic
music. You mean that someone must take drugs to produce it, which makes
experiencing DQ by drug users relevant for the world at large as it
Dear
Stephen,
You wrote 25/6 13:14 +0100 the quality, the good isn't in the
void.
So we agree again. The rest of your
post doesn't seem to me to pinpoint DQ down, so it stays comfortably
undefined.
With friendly greetings,
Wim
Nusselder
Hi Jonathan,
I also have problems to accept universe as a closed system. And not because of
the possibility of multiple universes. Let me try a simple consideration.
I've heard that the system is expanding, so IMO it is not closed. Let's admit
that the total amount of energy is constant: if
Hi Brian,
Marco:
Another thing I've noticed is that my cat *prefers* to sleep on clean
dresses, and on my bed when it's well arranged. Otherwise, if the bed is
all messed up, she uses to sleep on an old chair. In the past, another cat
had different fondnesses. I'd not point to that exactly
Glen,
I don't want to re-open the socialist thread, as it is very recent, and I think
your position is almost the same than other's, especially Platt's. Just, Platt
seemed to be a little more disposed to listen to the others. I'm here as I've
not understood one thing:
Sure let's absolve the
AreteLaugh,
The subjectivity in MoQ is still one of my headaches, it should not be there.
However, I hope I'm correct to say that you agree that it is possible for MoQ to lead
different people to different solutions for similar problem, as you stated. That do
IMO result in a situation where
Hi Platt, Marco and all,
PLATT
I hope in your new essay for the forum you will explain how novel
qualities arise from the rearrangement of elements that in themselves
lack these qualities. To simply say they emerge is a description, not
an explanation.
I'm not sure there is a rigorous
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