Hi Jonathan:
But in the end, Pirsig was glad to get rid of Lila:
Too true. Many moons ago, I stirred things up by suggesting that in the end,
Phaedrus was the posing moralist, slinking off and leaving the real job of
caring for Lila to Richard Rigel.
The elements of hypocrisy that come
Hi Wim Nusselder:
Your wrote:
I'd say: suffering from the limitations of lower levels' static patterns of
value is the negative fact of Quality. DQ is the drive to eliminate that
suffering, the drive behind evolution. Doesn't really contradict Pirsig,
does it?
Suffering as I interpret the
Hi John B:
I'm looking forward to hearing of your experiences with the Diamond
Essence workshop. I share the doubts expressed by Wim Nusselder,
but hope to be informed otherwise.
I did not experience a meta-voice as you did in using the inner
gesture technique. But that may have been because
Hi Dan:
Thanks for your comments on how different people interpret the MOQ
differently. Here's a case in point. You wrote:
DAN:
Robert Pirsig is an author and Phaedrus is a fictional character in his
books. They are not the same.
I wonder how many others agree with you. I've always assumed
Hi Marco:
But in the end, Pirsig was glad to get rid of Lila:
Across the cabin, on the pilot berth, Phaedrus saw that her suitcase
was gone. There was a nice empty hole there. That was good. That
meant he could get the trays of slips back out and have room to get to
work on them again. That
Hi Horse, John B:
The MoQ is a statement about reality. Pirsig is part of that reality but not it's
entireity - the
MoQ would be as true a statement about reality whether he existed or not.
The MoQ gives us a target to aim for - a bullseye is great but not necessary. To be
the best
Hi Sam:
SAM:
This may or may not be germane to the question of Pirsig's posited
hypocrisy, but in point of fact, the MoQ itself does not require
vegetarianism. In this instance RMP is making a tacit assumption about the
viability of human life on a vegetarian diet; if that assumption is
Hi Glen:
GLEN:
Again if want perfection, GO TO CHURCH.
PIRSIG:
His favorite Christian mystic was Johannes Eckhart who said,
Wouldst thou be perfect, do not yelp about God. (Lila, Chp. 30)
. . . perfection, a synonym for Quality. (Lila, Chp. 11)
Platt
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail
Hi Marco:
MARCO:
Phaedrus tries uselessly to convince her (Lila) to stay with him, and is
sad when she goes (ch. 31), so he is not selfish.
PIRSIG:
He stood on a mound of sand beside the juniper bushes and said,
A! He threw out his arms. Free! No idols, no Lila, no Rigel, no
New York, no
Hi Horse, Gerhard, Andrea, Marco, All:
Horse, rather than debate your point about a re-run of the Florida
election as being the highest Quality resolution of that issue, or the
kindness of Indians, or the necessity for coercion in society, I want to
focus on the following:
Does Pirsig
Hi Horse:
On 29 Jun 2001, at 15:42, Platt Holden wrote:
Of all the contributions America has made to the history of the world,
the idea of freedom from a social hierarchy has been the greatest. It
was fought for in the American Revolution and confirmed in the Civil
War.
I didn't
Hi Andrea:
What I meant was that you should go to Africa to distribute condoms to
prevent AIDS and the subsequent deaths from that behaviorial
disease, not to prevent children from being born into misery. Since you
value human life above all else, it seems you should be doing that or
Hi Stephen:
Many thanks for the explanation of the Aharonov-Bohm effect. As I
understand it, Bohm rejected the idea that an observer was necessary
for quantum effects to take place, ruling out mind or consciousness as
playing any role at that level. The question then arises, How could DQ
Hi Marco:
Most
humantarians talk a good game, but rarely practice what they preach.
Indeed a good reason to be anti-humanitarian
No, a good reason not to trust those who boast about their
humanitarism.
Pirsig railed against Rigel in Chapter 7 of LIla:
The ones who go posing
Hi Jonathan:
JONATHAN:
I don't think there is any real problem Platt, simplicistic science is for
technicians and the layman. Whether they like to philosophise or not, I'm sure
that most would welcome my closing statement from my previous post as a
mantra.
The Universe is true to its
Hi Andrea:
ANDREA:
For someone who values life above everything, an opinion or
a guess is not enough to execute a man or a woman.
Does this mean YOU value life above everything? Whose life?
Humans? Animals? Bugs? Trees? If human life, how come you're not
down in South Africa handing out
Hi Stephen Devlin:
STEPHEN:
The intellect likes hierarchies, boxes, tables and further abstractions
but the Anahorov-Bohm effect (experimentally verified) is showing that
matter is aware of its surroundings thus showing that there is an
interrelationship that the present MOQ hierarchy
Hi Jonathan, Elephant, Roger, Glenn and All:
Jonathan, I reread your essay *The End of Causality* in searching for
an answer to my question how novel qualities arise from the
rearrangement of elements that in themselves lack these qualities. In
doing so I was reminded that your answer is that
Hi Marco:
Have a couple of questions. You say emotions are biological. Your cat
purrs and is happy. Later you speak of a *sense of beauty.* Is the
sense of beauty an emotion? If so, how come your cat doesn't respond
to art? Do humans have biologically-based emotions that cat's don't? If
so,
Hi Jonathan:
I hope in your new essay for the forum you will explain how novel
qualities arise from the rearrangement of elements that in themselves
lack these qualities. To simply say they emerge is a description, not
an explanation.
I eargerly look forward to your essay, not only for its
Hi Everyone:
For those who need objective evidence of Quality from *material
examples* (as Pirsig suggested in his September 2000 letter to Bo
Skutvik) heres a wonderful compendium of specific examples from
Judge John Voelker, Michigan Supreme Court, retired,. author of
*Anatomy of Murder.*
Hi John B:
I wish you the best of luck in your quest to experience higher levels.
Each of us must choose his own way to discover his personal
essence and become enlightened to the spiritual realm if indeed such
a realm exists.
My own experience of indefinable reality (Quality) came as a
Hi John B:
Before you become to deeply involved in pursuing knowledge of the
spiritual level through a long and expensive period of guided
meditation, I recommend you read Chapter XI of Ken Wilber's book,
*The Spectrum of Consciousness.* To give you the flavor of his
cautionary tale, here
Hi Rog:
You wrote:
One potential path to knowledge is not to reject what we know, but to embrace
it and find ways to also embrace what others know and therefore to develop a
broader umbrella of understanding.
Another possible path, it seems to me, is to realize that one interpretation
Hi Everyone:
Just ran across a debate between bioethicist Peter Singer and
Appeals Court Judge Richard A. Posner on Slate magazine's website.
If you are at all interested in how moral arguments are conducted
without the benefit of the MOQ, this is a classic example. Singer
regards the
Hi Roger, Jonathan, Andrea:
Rog, thanks for the clarification of your position. Correct me if I'm
wrong, but you make a distinction between an evolutionary direction in
individual species and evolution overall, there being no particular
direction in species, but overall a direction towards
Hi Andrea, Roger, Glenn, Marty, Matt and All:
To call anyone who disagrees with Gould's view of evolution *naive*
seems arrogant to me and others who are open to the idea of
evolutionary progress. Not only does the word *evolution* imply
progress, but for every scientist you can name who
Hi All:
I'm always amused when outsiders who are probably totally unfamiliar
with the MOQ say what the MOQ says as if they had a brand new
thought. Another case popped up today, an article by Salman Rushdie
in the Guardian Saturday Review. Here's the key sentence:
'Famous' and 'rich' are now
Hi Jonathan:
You claim that the fatal flaw in the capitalist position is equating money
with quality. Assuming we are still in the context of comparing
economic systems, I turn to Pirsig to see if he agrees with you. Lo and
behold, I find this quote in Lila, Chap. 5:
What's so vague about
Hi Marco:
I'm amazed and somewhat amused by the vehemence of your defense
of European-style socialism. And, you seem to take personal offense
at any interpretation of the MOQ that violates your conception of social
morality. I sense almost a religious fervor in your reaction to my
Hi Marco:
Our posts crossed in the mail, so I owe you a reply first.
The superiority of capitalism over communism resides in the dynamism ensured by
capitalism at the social level. So, I think it would be moral to have a dynamic
form of intellect (more dynamic than SOM), as counterpart of
Hi Elephant:
Since you bring up the National Health Service, Platt, I'd like to be told
just exactly when it was that the UK government had to put tanks on the
streets to enforce free health care for all. I'd also like to know whether
your assumption that efficiency is in all cases greater
Hi Drose:
Platt saith:
The basic question for philosophy is: Why is there something rather
than nothing? I know of only three rational options, each based on an
unprovable premise: 1) God, 2) accident and 3) ethical requirement.
God is the religious premise, accident the scientific
Hi Jonathan:
If you've covered this ground in previous posts forgive me for asking
again.
Are you saying that evolution moves forward because DQ allows
chance mutation to break up old patterns and chance favorability to
create new and better ones? The idea that DQ makes it possible for
Hello Everyone:
It always warms my heart when a scientist who has probably never
heard of the MOQ unknowingly supports key parts of it. Recent
examples are a couple of excerpts from a forthcoming book by a
clinical neuropsychologist Paul Broks entitled, Into the Silent Land.
See if they
Hi Marco:
We agree on many points. For example:
. Monopoly is static, competition is dynamic.
. The ideal is to obtain static and dynamic simultaneously.
. Monopoly is our common enemy.
. It's good that the government of Italy is initiating the biggest program
of privatizations in Europe.
Hi Matt:
Your challenge:
Here, finally, is the metaphysical problem:
What/Who says that Dynamic Quality has the moral high ground over static
patterns of value?
Argue and defend.
Who says? You do. I do. Pirsig does. Each of us, individually.
Ultimately all metaphysical questions come
Hi Matt:
It's been a long time since I've read such an accurate and succinct
summary of the MOQ. In fact, I don't recall ever reading a better
synopsis of Pirisig's revolutionary metaphysics. It bears repeating, so I
have. Congrats and thanks.
Platt
Simon:
You think there's a
Hi Marco:
Would you agree that Pirsig would be pleased (based on the MOQ) of
the election in your country of Silvio Berlusconi and his center-right
coalition?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Berlusconi, reputedly Italy's richest
man, promise to pare back Italy's overlarge, officious
Hi Rog, Mangiola:
A quick check on the Internet reveals that there are many companies
now engaged in geothermal research, development and production.
Among them: Air Drilling Service, Inc., Baker Hughes, Calpine Corp.,
Chemco Water Technology, Daniel Valve Co., Dow Chemical, Drill
Cool
Hi Horse and all other left-wing, pinko, bed-wetting liberals :-) (Yes--just joking.)
While it seems to be the belief among many Europeans that
Americans are too dumb to know the difference between socialism
and communism, I can assure you that is not always the case. At least
you must admit
Rasheed:
Can you give us a reference in ZAMM or Lila where Pirsig says all this?
Or is this your personal interpretation? If you're going to claim that such
and such is the MOQ's position, you better be able to back it up with
the author's words.
the moq's position on warfare also holds
Hi Marty:
I think you'll find in Chap. 22 of Lila that Pirsig faults intellectual control
of society because intellect, based on SOM, has no provision for
morals. He also points out that communism and socialism, programs
for intellectual control of society, ultimately fail because they do not
Hi Simon:
Namely torture in this instance, although I'm also wondering what the MOQ
says about warfare.
Pirsig justifies warfare in Chap. 13 of Lila. He wrote:
An evolutionary morality would at first seem to say yes, a society has a
right to murder people to prevent its own destruction. A
Hi Horse and Group:
Thanks Horse for the reassurance. Perhaps its time to get this site
back on track by discussing the Metaphysics of Quality as proposed by
Robert Pirsig.
Several newcomers have written posts critical of the free market
system in general and the United States in
Hi Doug:
You'll find the reference to code of art in Lila, Chap. 13. We've had many
discussions about this in the past, wondering if art/beauty is the next
level of evolution. I personally think so. Here's the passage:
First, there were moral codes that established the supremacy of
Hi Doug:
A warm welcome to the discussion. From your background it sounds
like you have much to offer the group. For starters, I agree that the best
textbooks for the MOQ are ZAMM and Lila, and that a value-centered
universe is a tough sell in in a world where morality is considered
limited
Hi Elephant, Marty, All:
PLATT: (previously)
Am I to assume that both you gentlemen have been enlightened and
thus can claim from personal experience of the relationship between
enlightenment and compassion? Or, is the relationship something you
have gleaned from the testimony of others? I
Hi Marty, Elephant, All:
Elephant said:
It is true that in so far as we transcend personality we cease to have
distinct *goals*, private fantasies, self-serving histories e.g... But a
man who has transcended personality and become both enlightened and
compassionate (for the two are one)
Hi All:
Those who doubt that consciousness/awareness can exist outside
brains or nervous systems might want to take a look at
www.boundaryinstitute.org. The presentation of experimental scientific
evidence is impressive. I especially found D.I. Radin's paper entitled
*Who, what and where is
Hi Jonathan, Elephant, All:
ELEPHANT:
Yes, and my 'slant' on that, if you please, is that patterns of value, being
patterns of SQ, are patterns of *confered* value: complexes of judgements.
You do recognise don't you, that a pattern of DQ is a 'contradiction in
terms'? Since after all DQ
Hi Elephant, All:
You asked:
Yes indeed. BTW - what's going on with your email: why all the % and
funny punctuation marks? (I've been struck by this for months).
You know, I've noticed that in Roger's posts, but when I read my own
and other posts, there's no problem. Could it be that in
Hi Elephant:
ELEPHANT:
I'd like to know where we are up to with the awareness thing since I
took time out (I'm always hoping that *something* will be sorted out
once and for all on this list). Here's the post I couldn't keep from
sending Platt the week before last, even though to save my
Hi Jeremy:
You wrote:
Something which a wise tutor told me which seemed relevant. He said
(towards the end of my three years of study) when you leave here
forget everything you've been taught... it'll do *you* no good. I know
when something dynamic has happened when I sculpt. Its
To Rog:
From: Platt
ROGER:
I would like to try to wrap this discussion up soon, but we still have a few
loose ends.
1st, to Marco:
I enjoyed the article much, though -- like you -- felt a touch of the MOQ
could have helped the author through the tougher parts. I strongly,
Hi Danila:
You wrote:
Has anyone suggested "atoms pattern"? I have been happy with this
term within the assumption that all matter cannot NOT pattern;
patterning is the front-face to the world, the 'drive' to value that which
can be valued. This 'compulsion' to pattern is inherent in matter.
To Chris (if youre still there)
From: Platt
CHRIS:
Platt et al, some of the material on the atom awareness thread is a
joke showing a total lack in understanding of fundamentals. However,
if you wish to go off into ga-ga land that is your 'right' (if at an expense to
the culture, 'good'
To Marco:
From: Platt
Are you OK with "atoms experience" and "atoms evaluate?"
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
s, I guess. Are you trying to lead me somewhere?
:-)
- Original Message -
From: "Platt Holden" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Marco:
From: Platt
Are you OK with "atoms experience" and "atoms evaluate?"
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Ar
To: Rog
From: Platt
Thanks for further explanation of your position vis a vis experiencing
(aware) atoms. I must have the thickest head on the planet because I
still dont get your objections.
ROG:
Alternatively, rather than anthropomorphizing atoms, molecules and
nature into conscious,
To Jeremy:
From: Platt
In Rogers summary of the pros and cons of the atoms are aware
discussion, he wrote:
The PRO's say that atoms must be aware or the whole MOQ falls apart.
The CON's think they need to make a case as well as explain why
Pirsig never seemed to share this logical
Hi Elephant:
Pirsig rejects (or is it refutes?) your as if theory in Lila, Chap. 5, calling
it a degeneracy of another sort. He says all of us pollute the mystic
reality of the world with fixed metaphysical meanings, not as if
meanings. Heres the relevant passage.
What made all this
Hi Jez:
You wrote:
The nature of practicality, that is the need to maintain static patterns
and the need for dynamism exists at every level, but the exact
requirements are not the same each level. By practicality we usually
mean things which serve our biological nature. If we see intellect
Hi Roger, Jonathan, Marco, Marty, Elephant, all:
PLATT(previously to Roger)
My guess is that such sentences are too metaphorically strong for your
liking and thus present a false picture. Instead of awareness would
you accept Whiteheads much less provocative word prehension to
describe a
To Roger:
From Platt:
Thanks for you response to my questions. A couple of comments, and
more questions:
ROG:
'Awareness' I see as applying to living things. Webster's concurs.
Pirsig writes that only living things can perceive or adjust to dynamic
quality, so I assume I have no
Hi Elephant:
The only reason I think you are aware is because you act "as if" you are
aware. No one has direct knowledge of another's state of awareness.
Also, you haven't answered my question about how far down the chain
of being you (or Plato) think entities are aware. Are bears aware? Are
Hi Roger, Jonathan, Elephant and All:
JONATHAN:
Let me explain. I think that the following words are all linked:
RESPONSIVE-SENSITIVE-EVALUATING-AWARE-SENTIENT-
CONSCIOUS-INTELLIGENT. They may carry additional semantic
baggage, but they share VALUE as common element.
To which I add the word
Hi Jonathan:
In a post dtd Mar 28, 2001 you wrote:
The discomfort that Elephant and Roger seem to feel over "atomic awareness"
is, IMHO linked to the whole subject/object dichotomy and the issue of
CAUSALITY. As I have said before, the word "cause" sees to have two meanings,
one subjective
Hi Elephant:
You asked: Why is it essential to the MOQ that atoms be aware?
If values are reality as Pirsig claims, and if evolution was value-driven
as he also claims, then awareness of value must have appeared
concurrent or immediately after the Big Bang. Otherwise, nothing
further would
Hi Rog:
ROG:
Sorry, but I sense something wrong with this argument. To presuppose that
atoms have "choice" and "awareness" and a "vague sense of betterness"
overstates the issue to the point of absurdity, or at least to the point of
making the terms "choice," "awareness," and "sense"
Hi Everyone:
As many of you know Im a beauty nut. So it will come as no surprise
that I seek out quotes from noteworthy people about what role beauty
has played in their lives. One quote I came across the other day was
attributed to Freeman Dyson, professor of physics at the Princeton
Hi Marco, Elephant and Group:
MARCO:
You can say that you are going to the top or to the bottom only if you
already know the road, or if someone else gave you a map. But if this is
the first time you run a road, and you have no maps, you can't say
where the road is leading. The only thing
Hi Jonathan:
You wrote:
What constitutes primary empirical evidence? Does such a thing exist,
or is it an unattainable ideal? (That's an ironic twist on the idealism vs.
empiricism argument).
Thats the sort of gutsy philosophical question that I find fascinating
and deserves a thread of
Hi Rog:
A great post, as usual. I hope you will take the following as a view from
another angle rather than a contradiction because in many ways I
agree with what you said.
You wrote:
The mystics take very seriously the warnings against engaging in
metaphysical explorations that Pirsig
Hi Rick:
RICK:
Would we all agree that:
"TheLaw of Gravity" is a description...?
Yes and No. The Law of Gravity is a high quality intellectual value
pattern.
2. It describes that which pulls apples towards the Earth (named
"Gravity" by Newton)?
Yes and No. It describes an inorganic value
Hi Glenn:
GLENN:
You do not have any empirical knowledge, radical or otherwise, that
electrons and atoms in the nervous system or anywhere else are
experiential. If this is what MOQ subscribes to then it contradicts itself.
You do not have any empirical knowledge that I am experiential
Hi Thracian:
Welcome to the discussion. Some more ponderings as a result of
your post about zero:
Is presumes Is not.
Hillary Clinton: I know nothing.
To be or not to be are both states of being.
There must be nothing for there to be something
There is nothing which is not. Things
Hi David Lind Group:
You quoted:
St. Francis of Assisi:
What you are looking for is what is looking.
Zen Aphorism:
A sword cannot cut itself. Deisre cannot overcome itself. The Way
cannot be followed by trying.
What is looking is Dynamic Quality. It cannot be followed by trying. An
Hi Glenn:
PLATT: (previously)
First I disagree with your assumption that DQ must be a psychical
experience. The vague sense of betterness which describes the DQ
experience can emerge from any and all levels. Alleviation of pain, for
example, is biologically based but psychically felt. All
Hi Glenn, Rick and All:
GLENN:
I don't know if "hate" is too strong, because I don't know him (Pirsig)
well enough. But I know "hate" doesn't fully describe the complexity of
his attitudes about science. If you had to describe *your* attitudes
about science, would you find similarities with
Hi Glenn:
GLENN:
While I agree that all our senses, including our sense of quality, tell us
something about our environment, it doesn't follow from this that DQ is
a part of the environment itself.
PLATT:
It doesnt prove that Quality is part of the environment, but it suggests
the
Hi Rick, Horse and All:
RICK:
Phaedrus and Socrates meet on the road and sit to debate,
somewhere within their dialogue the following exchange occurs
Phaedrus: There is an exception to every rule.
Socrates: Oh Phaedrus, you are quite the sophist and even a foolish
old man like me can
Hi Rick:
You wrote:
And on more time...
Platt, I ask you:
What rule of logic states that rules must address themselves? Or in
other words What rule of logic states that rules cannot have
exceptions? And if rules can have exceptions, why can't they exempt
themselves?
And one more time .
Hi Rick,
RICK:
I believe you have bought into the (very common) rhetorical fallacy often
referred to as "the fallacy of self-inclusion".
Rhetorical fallacy? An oxymoron. Rhetoricians dont hesitate to use
fallacious logic if it serves their purpose. What Ive bought into as you
put it is
Hi Glenn:
Sorry to be tardy in replying to your posts. As you may have noted, Ive
been busy trying to persuade those who say there are no absolutes
or truth depends on context that they commit philosophical and
logical hari kari.
PLATT: (previously)
Since science cannot touch the domain
Hi Richard:
PLATT (previously)
Precisely my point. If I believe in an absolute truth and you dont, then
you have no reason to oppose and try to defeat me if I gain the power to
impose my truth on you.
RICHARD
Yes you do - the reason is that if you wish to maintain the belief in the
absence
Hi 3wd:
You wrote:
Would suggest you read (or re-read) Wilbur's chapter "The Great
PostModern Revolution" in a "Brief History of Everything" for the single,
yet most profound, insight that both Pirsig and the Post Modernists
have in common. In fact I'll wager that history will judge Pirsig's
Hi Simon:
PLATT: (previously)
Well, I've never seen for myself from a space ship that the earth is
round instead of flat, but would you deny that the statement "the earth is
round, not flat" is absolutely true as opposed to maybe true, based on
the testimony of many trustworthy sources?
Hi Roger:
ROG:
If morality means quality or value ...yes. But if that is what morality
means, then why use the word "morality?
PLATT: (previously)
You seem to want to avoid using morality as a synonym for Quality. I
thought we agreed that in the MOQ Quality=Morality=Good=Direct
Experience.
Hi Simon:
You wrote:
So it boils down to trust? As regards the question of the Holocaust, in whom
should I put this trust? In Daniel Jonah Goldhagen and Deborah Lipstadt, or
in David Irving? Given that there is a difference of opinion, can anybody be
said to be telling the absolute truth?
Hi David Lind, Jon and Elephant:
Your questions about absolute truth show that Ive failed to make my
position clear. Let me give it another try.
DAVID
I don't deny that there is an "ultimate truth", I just don't think we can
access it intellectually. As far as what term we use...doesn't much
Hi Simon:
To be absolutely certain of something, need I have experienced it myself, or
do I just have to be absolutely certain that others speak the absolute
truth?
The latter. I just talk to my daughter in Connecticut who said it was snowing there.
I'm absolutely certain it is snowing
Hi Jon:
You wrote:
You and Elephant both pointed out the same thing. Is it and Absolute Truth
that there is no Absolute Truth? But remember this is not only a tenet of
postmodernism, it is also one of the basic tenets of Science itself. That's
why I've said in so many posts in the past
Hi Marco:
You wrote:
Actually I do believe that usually a spontaneous cooperation is a good
way to evolve. As long as cooperation is spontaneous, it has huge
dynamic capabilities. I'm translating the essay "Zen and the art of
revolution" for the Italian forum, and I think that the examples
Hi Glenn:
You flunked the Pirsigian Test (4 Yess out of 20) , but why am I not
surprised? (-:
GLENN:
Neither Pirsig nor anyone on this forum has convinced me that
substance is morality. Of course I know part of my problem is getting
over the conventional definition of morality. Even so, I
Hi Jon:
You wrote:
For the record, here's what I think about "postmodernism." I would agree with
its tenet that there is no such thing as Absolute Truth. But I'm totally
*against* using that tenet to support immorality or "anything goes."
I cannot agree with a tenet based on a logical
Hi Rick:
You wrote:
I've read a little Whitehead (although that was a while ago) I don't
remember reading anything about the ideas your citing above... can you
suggest any of these websites?
Lots of sites brought up by a search engine like Yahoo or Google by
entering "panpsychism" and
Hi Rick:
Thanks for responding to the Pirsigian test.
PIRSIG (from RICK):
"...conventional reason bears it out. The material object of observation
can't be right or wrong. Molecules are molecules. The don't have any
ethical codes to follow except those people give them." (ZAMM chap.
14,
PLATT ANSWERS ROGERS COMMENTS ON THE PIRSIGIAN TEST
USING TEXT FROM LILA
ROGER
Morality exists outside of a social/cultural context?
If morality means quality or value ...yes. But if that is what morality
means, then why use the word "morality?
PIRSIG
Chap. 7: To answer him you have to go
Hi Marco:
You wrote:
Everyone runs the same "me" program that doesn't belong to anyone?
If you mean here that "my" life is not really mine, as I'm composed of a
mix of patterns coming from the past, inhabiting me temporarily, and
lasting after me I agree. But also I'd say that, during
1 - 100 of 253 matches
Mail list logo
