Asa Dotzler wrote:
DeMoN_LaG wrote:
*gasp* You are going to say that Mozilla can't access a web based
news service through the news client??? Oh my god, how has this
feature been left out. I mean, IE has had this for, what, 5, 10 years
now? Oh? IE doesn't have this feature? What
Asa Dotzler wrote:
[snip]
Actually Mozilla is very close. A couple of hackers have developed a
Mozilla add-on called forumzilla which gives the user a mail-news
interface for reading weblogs like mozillazine, kuro5hin, slashdot, etc.
Sah-weet! So who want to run the pool for guessing
Ian Hickson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Marcin Januchta wrote:
You may find this question silly, but what/who is RMS and GPL?
Not a silly question at all.
RMS is Richard Stallman, the founder of the Free Software Foundation (FSF)
and the GNU (which stands for GNU's Not Unix) project.
Ian Hickson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Marcin Januchta wrote:
You may find this question silly, but what/who is RMS and GPL?
Not a silly question at all.
RMS is Richard Stallman, the founder of the Free Software Foundation (FSF)
and the GNU (which stands for GNU's Not Unix) project.
DeMoN_LaG wrote:
JTK wrote:
snip
This better? I have to apologize, I am not nearly nerdly enough to
have known
that you needed a space after the two minuses. And I'm using a web-based
newsgroup reader, which Maozilla won't interface to to do such
wonderful
things for me.
John Dobbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb im Newsbeitrag
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
Ian Hickson wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, JTK wrote:
God, why do I bother.
A very good question. Many of us would rather you did not.
As long as you reply to his posts, he'll
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, jesus X wrote:
Ian Hickson wrote:
(Where Gecko is the rendering engine (HTML, CSS, DOM, etc) and Mozilla
is the web browser.)
Is not the DOM, while part of Gecko, partially connected to the UI as
well?
No more so than HTTP or CSS.
IIRC, for interfacing with users,
You may find this question silly, but what/who is RMS and GPL?
jesus X wrote:
Ian Hickson wrote:
Since you clearly understand the issues, I would recommend being more
careful when making statements like "RMS [sees] selling software as a
sin", which is not true at all (he encourages it), and
Marcin Januchta wrote:
You may find this question silly, but what/who is RMS and GPL?
GPL is the GNU General Public License, which is one of several licenses
approved by the Open Source Initiative that open source projects can use
when releasing their source code to the public. An open
JTK wrote:
Comments to Mozilla's 'bloat',
So you are going to tell me Mozilla is *not* a complete pig?
BAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!
But can you get a witness? I said can you get a witness brother!
Ok, let's talk about this one. How many DLLs does IE require? Here
Alex wrote:
Marcin Januchta wrote:
You may find this question silly, but what/who is RMS and GPL?
GPL is the GNU General Public License, which is one of several licenses
approved by the Open Source Initiative that open source projects can use
when releasing their source code to the
mvOW6.11208$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">
So you mean I just sit down and type:Ok computer, I want a W3C complient web browser, and all the source for it, hit enter and then suddenly a couple hundred million lines of code pop up and I get a web browser? No, not quite. It takes a very, very long time
On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 16:04:51 -0400, jesus X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
somehow managed to type:
Like I said, I don't think everything needs to be that way. I know how hard it
is to program good apps, and the skill it requires. If there was no way for a
programmer to be reimbursed for his effort,
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
John Dobbins wrote:
Richard M Stallman, founder of the Free Software Foundation and author of
the GPL.
...the organisation which produces GNU Emacs, gcc, et al.
- --
Cheers, Chris Howells -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web ( for PGP Key):
JTK wrote:
But even an MBA can know nothing about software programming.
*Even* an MBA? Whoah, now *that's* crazy-talk!
YEs, even an MBA as opposed to your minor. I would wager that someone with an
MBA has put in more time and effort to learn more about the subject than someone
with a minor.
RV wrote:
The concept of variable and fixed cost must be defined in terms of periods of
time (short run or long run) you are considering. Software is an abstraction
for a product and as such can be considered intangible. But in order to
deliver a product tangible (raw materials, equipment,
Carlfish wrote:
IYHO.
Yes. Unlike JTK, I do not pretend to have the absolute Right Opinion on
everything. Feel free to disagree at any time. :)
--
jesus X [ Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism. ]
email [ jesusx @ who.net ]
web [ http://burntelectrons.com ] [
jesus X wrote:
K-M does not use everything in Mozilla except the UI. It's just the renderer in
another app. This does not constitute proof. That's the equivalent of running
Quake 3 on a Pentium with a double speed CD drive, then running it on an Athlon
4 with a 36x drive, and claiming the
jesus X wrote:
JTK wrote:
But even an MBA can know nothing about software programming.
*Even* an MBA? Whoah, now *that's* crazy-talk!
YEs, even an MBA as opposed to your minor. I would wager that someone with an
MBA has put in more time and effort to learn more about the subject than
JTK wrote:
Because the statement is neither correct, nor proven to be so.
It is correct, I proved it, and caught nothing but flack for my
yet-to-be-disproven numbers. In fact recently someone else has posted
similar results, in a pretty embarrasing attempt to *disprove* them!
There
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, JTK wrote:
I long ago proved that XUL was a major factor in Mozilla's slowness. Well
actually K-Meleon did. And from the few non-private posts that leak into
performance, it sounds like I'm not the only one who knows it.
K-M does not use everything in Mozilla except
JTK wrote:
Jesus was a rabbi, what's your beef? You know what the word means,
don't you? I mean you've taken all those Hebrew classes in addition to
the econ classes, right?
I am
neither Jewish, nor a rabbi, and frankly, it's childish. The joke was old after
the first time you tried
JTK wrote:
Wh...?!?!? Do you know what an MBA even *is*? It has nothing
whatsoever to do with software.
I know. Neither does a Minor is business whatever (you didn't specify what
exactly your minor was). My point was to illustrate that your minor in business
had no bearing on your technical
Ian Hickson wrote:
(Where Gecko is the
rendering engine (HTML, CSS, DOM, etc) and Mozilla is the web browser.)
Is not the DOM, while part of Gecko, partially connected to the UI as well?
IIRC, for interfacing with users, the DOM has to go through the UI's set of
controls, correct? Or am I
JTK wrote:
This better? I have to apologize, I am not nearly nerdly enough to have known
that you needed a space after the two minuses. And I'm using a web-based
newsgroup reader, which Maozilla won't interface to to do such wonderful
things for me.
*gasp* You are going to say that Mozilla
JTK wrote:
So you also do not know what fixed and variable costs are.
No, I understand it perfectly. There is nothing more variable than intangible
assets.
You've done no such research to attempt to help your case in these
arguments.
Um, I think a minor in business counts as research in
Ian Hickson wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, JTK wrote:
God, why do I bother.
A very good question. Many of us would rather you did not.
As long as you reply to his posts, he'll bother.
Don't feed the trolls.
JBD
On Sun, 17 Jun 2001, John Dobbins wrote:
Ian Hickson wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, JTK wrote:
God, why do I bother.
A very good question. Many of us would rather you did not.
As long as you reply to his posts, he'll bother.
Actually, in my experience he very rarely replies to my posts.
On Sun, 17 Jun 2001, jesus X wrote:
Yes, of course. I couldn't care less, personally. My belief is that
software should be free (as in free will), for reasons described quite
well by RMS in his papers. If this means it is not possible to make a
profit from software development, then so be
Ian Hickson wrote:
Actually, in my experience he very rarely replies to my posts. In fact he
rarely replies to any post pointing out his limitations. The truth is
clearly too painful for him to face it directly. I feel sorry for him.
I've noticed the same tendency. Give him an
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], jesus X says...
JTK wrote:
So you also do not know what fixed and variable costs are.
No, I understand it perfectly.
No, you don't...
There is nothing more variable than intangible
assets.
..as you've just proved yet again.
You've done no such research to
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, JTK wrote:
I long ago proved that XUL was a major factor in Mozilla's slowness.
Just for the record, this is in fact a myth. I refer interested parties to
recent posts in n.p.mozilla.performance for more details.
--
Ian Hickson )\
JTK wrote:
Please explain how you're not able to make money from GPLed software.
You cannot sell the software itself. You can sell software that runs with/on
GPLed software, but the software itself must be 100% cost free and restriction
free. That's the nature of the GPL.
Red Hat somehow has
JTK wrote:
Really? So I could take Maozilla, bundle it with my own Instant Messaging
utility (supporting both AOL's proprietary IM and non-proprietary,
standards-based ones), rework the email reader to read not only regular pop3
and imap email, but also AOL email, and, oh, say MSN email,
On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, jesus X wrote:
You cannot sell the software itself. You can sell software that runs with/on
GPLed software, but the software itself must be 100% cost free and restriction
free. That's the nature of the GPL.
That is absolutely not true.
# Redistributing free software is
JTK wrote:
Red Hat somehow has stayed in business for quite a while, though you
claim they don't turn a profit.
They are running at a loss. That's an undisputable fact.
--
Cheers, Chris Howells -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web ( for PGP Key): http://chrishowells.co.uk
Red Hat makes money off selling Linux CDs and Linux books, as well as
providing tech support. You can go to their web site and download Linux
for free. The only catch is you get no manuals, and they won't provide
tech support. HAHAHA, why am I telling you this? You are the know all
god of
jesus X wrote:
JTK wrote:
Really? So I could take Maozilla, bundle it with my own Instant Messaging
utility (supporting both AOL's proprietary IM and non-proprietary,
standards-based ones), rework the email reader to read not only regular pop3
and imap email, but also AOL email, and, oh, say
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], DeMoN_LaG says...
Red Hat makes money off selling Linux CDs and Linux books, as well as
providing tech support. You can go to their web site and download Linux
for free. The only catch is you get no manuals, and they won't provide
tech support. HAHAHA, why am
Karl Ove Hufthammer wrote:
No, it's not. You can sell GPLed software. See URL:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html :
If you read it further, you see there is a difference between charging for the
software, and charging for the distribution.
--
jesus X [ Booze-fueled paragon of
DeMoN_LaG wrote:
Is this true? Last time anyone tried to get access to AOL's IM network they
blocked the client out.
GAIM connects to AIM, and I think Jabber does too. AOL blocked Yahoo and MSN's
messenger programs.
Of course, them blocking you is unrelated to you writing and distributing a
On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, JTK wrote:
I'd bitch if I was you.
We noticed.
--
Ian Hickson )\ _. - ._.) fL
Netscape, Standards Compliance QA /. `- ' ( `--'
+1 650 937 6593`- , ) - ) \
irc.mozilla.org:Hixie
On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, JTK wrote:
God, why do I bother.
A very good question. Many of us would rather you did not.
--
Ian Hickson )\ _. - ._.) fL
Netscape, Standards Compliance QA /. `- ' ( `--'
+1 650 937 6593
On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, jesus X wrote:
Karl Ove Hufthammer wrote:
No, it's not. You can sell GPLed software. See URL:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html :
If you read it further, you see there is a difference between charging for the
software, and charging for the distribution.
Could
JTK wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], DeMoN_LaG says...
Red Hat makes money off selling Linux CDs and Linux books, as well as
providing tech support. You can go to their web site and download Linux
for free. The only catch is you get no manuals, and they won't provide
tech support.
Ian Hickson wrote:
I'm confused by your argument.
Once you sell a copy (define it how you will), that person can then make
unlimited exactly copies and distribute them infinitely, thus rendering your
attempt to sell the software moot. Aside from custom written software for a
single client or
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], DeMoN_LaG says...
JTK wrote:
[snip]
Good, we're finally getting somewhere.
Not really. I still find you annoying,
Yeah, I still got it.
you still have no idea what you
are arguing about.
No, you still have no idea what I am arguing about.
[snip]
You
jesus X wrote:
Umm, the MPL is just as open as the GPL, but less restrictive to those who wish
to actually try and profit from their hard work. But I seem to recall that it
was going to be dual-licensed under the MPL and GPL, but can't seem to see that
at a quick glance.
MPL is more
Stuart Ballard wrote:
Garth Wallace wrote:
JTK wrote:
I think it was Gerv or Garth telling me that. I'll see if'n I can find
one of the many quotes.
I'd certainly like to see if you can back that assertion up...
I suspect what was actually said was Netscape Communicator or
Netscape 4.x
jesus X wrote:
Garth Wallace wrote:
MPL is more restrictive than the BSD license but not so much as the GPL,
AFAICT.
To me, I consider the MPL more open than the GPL license, similar to the BSDL.
Why? Despite Roblimo's article in Open Magazine, the GPL is somewhat contagious.
Mainly
jesus X wrote:
Garth Wallace wrote:
MPL is more restrictive than the BSD license but not so much as the GPL,
AFAICT.
To me, I consider the MPL more open than the GPL license, similar to the BSDL.
Well, I consider them to be equally open, since you can look at the
whole source under all
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], DeMoN_LaG says...
JTK wrote:
jesus X wrote:
Garth Wallace wrote:
MPL is more restrictive than the BSD license but not so much as the GPL,
AFAICT.
To me, I consider the MPL more open than the GPL license, similar to the BSDL.
Why? Despite Roblimo's article in
On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, JTK wrote:
Really? So I could take Maozilla, bundle it with my own Instant Messaging
utility (supporting both AOL's proprietary IM and non-proprietary,
standards-based ones), rework the email reader to read not only regular pop3 and
imap email, but also AOL email, and,
Indeed, which makes it all the more distasteful when those in-the-know
try to misinform people that AOL/Time Warner/Netscape is somehow not in
complete control of this project. Well, as far as the project is under
complete control *COUGH*almostfouryearsnow*HACK*.
If you consider that
jesus X wrote:
JTK wrote:
Whoever said they're TOTALLY unrelated is a pinhead, much like yourself.
I think it was Gerv or Garth telling me that. I'll see if'n I can find
one of the many quotes.
Then when Gerv or Garth said that, they were being a pinhead. Netscape founded
Mozilla,
JTK wrote:
jesus X wrote:
JTK wrote:
So what's the ETA on getting the netscape. out of the names of these
groups, seeing as everyone keeps telling me that Netscape and Mozilla
are entirely unrelated?
Whoever said they're TOTALLY unrelated is a pinhead, much like yourself.
I think it was
JTK wrote:
Indeed, which makes it all the more distasteful when those in-the-know
try to misinform people that AOL/Time Warner/Netscape is somehow not in
complete control of this project. Well, as far as the project is under
complete control *COUGH*almostfouryearsnow*HACK*.
Your number keep
Garth Wallace wrote:
JTK wrote:
I think it was Gerv or Garth telling me that. I'll see if'n I can find
one of the many quotes.
I'd certainly like to see if you can back that assertion up...
If he does, you'll have to not take my calling you a pinhead personally. Since I
doubt you said it
JTK wrote:
Whoever said they're TOTALLY unrelated is a pinhead, much like yourself.
I think it was Gerv or Garth telling me that. I'll see if'n I can find
one of the many quotes.
Then when Gerv or Garth said that, they were being a pinhead. Netscape founded
Mozilla, is the major financer of
JTK wrote:
So what's the ETA on getting the netscape. out of the names of these
groups, seeing as everyone keeps telling me that Netscape and Mozilla
are entirely unrelated?
Whoever said they're TOTALLY unrelated is a pinhead, much like yourself.
--
jesus X [ Booze-fueled paragon of
Is http://www.mozilla.org.uk/newsgroups.txt obsolete? At
http://developer.netscape.com/evangelism/docs/articles/updating-dhtml-web-pages/#feedback
this newsgroups for additional information about client-side
browser development using web standards and Netscape technologies
are listed:
*
Is http://www.mozilla.org.uk/newsgroups.txt obsolete? At
No. Thanks for pointing this out.
I sent the feedback email address on that page the following email. If
anyone thinks I've misrepresented the position, please say so.
Gerv
snip
mozilla.public.dev.css
mozilla.public.dev.dom
So what's the ETA on getting the netscape. out of the names of these
groups, seeing as everyone keeps telling me that Netscape and Mozilla
are entirely unrelated?
Hello?
Hellooo?
Gervase Markham wrote:
[snip]
JTK wrote:
So what's the ETA on getting the netscape. out of the names of these
groups, seeing as everyone keeps telling me that Netscape and Mozilla
are entirely unrelated?
Hello?
Hellooo?
Gervase Markham wrote:
[snip]
Huh ??? Netscape and Mozilla are tightly integrated. I
JTK wrote:
So what's the ETA on getting the netscape. out of the names of these
groups, seeing as everyone keeps telling me that Netscape and Mozilla
are entirely unrelated?
July 15th is the latest date given in the relevant tracking bug.
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62228
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