- Original Message -
> From: "John Levine"
> They sure seem ready to take down the oopper. The installer was sad
> when I told him to leave my six-pair copper cable alone even though
> nothing is using it now.
Sure; ILECs would *love* to deprovision their copper end networks.
But
- Original Message -
> From: "Mark Tinka"
> On 12/25/20 22:49, Michael Thomas wrote:
>> But using the right queuing disciplines it a lot cheaper than the
>> brute force and ignorance of just upping the bandwidth, right?
>
> Consumer ISP's have realized that they can make money selling
On 12/26/20 07:32, b...@theworld.com wrote:
Another way to phrase the question (which was the subject of much
dispute 30 years ago) is:
Which would you rather have (I'll use modern speeds):
1gb flat rate
10gb metered
Where metered 10gb could cost less than 1gb when you don't use it, or
On 12/26/20 00:32, John Levine wrote:
I agree it is odd to make 100/100 the top speed. The fiber service I
have from my local non-Bell telco offers 100/100, 500/500, and
1000/1000. FiOS where you can get it goes to 940/880.
The obvious guess is that their upstream bandwidth is
On 12/25/20 23:22, Niels Bakker wrote:
Download times:-
180GB at 100 Mbps: 4 hours
180GB at 1000 Mbps: 23 minutes
For a number of reasons, highly unlikely your console will pull at
1Gbps, but yes, it would certainly pull quicker than 100Mbps :-).
I'd just get my 4hrs of sleep, but
On 12/25/20 23:04, Michael Thomas wrote:
I mean, i understand the arm's race, but now it seems to be an arms
race for its own sake.
It is, because it is hard to be different when all you know is to sell
bandwidth.
The next level of differentiation is being a fibre provider, and
On 12/25/20 22:49, Michael Thomas wrote:
But using the right queuing disciplines it a lot cheaper than the
brute force and ignorance of just upping the bandwidth, right?
Consumer ISP's have realized that they can make money selling Gigabit
services, because the ones who really know how
On 12/25/20 22:40, Chris Adams wrote:
Bandwidth is like disk space - you think "I'll never use all of this",
and then the availability changes behavior. Having ability to do more
means your behavior changes to utilize more. We don't NEED high speed
Internet to download games - we could
Another way to phrase the question (which was the subject of much
dispute 30 years ago) is:
Which would you rather have (I'll use modern speeds):
1gb flat rate
10gb metered
Where metered 10gb could cost less than 1gb when you don't use it, or
about the same at ~1gb, but more if you use >1gb?
In article <5f11bc55-e3d1-006d-c4c4-0703ff63c...@mtcc.com> you write:
>> The obvious guess is that their upstream bandwidth is
>> underprovisioned, or maybe they figure 100/100 is all they need to
>> compete in that particular market.
>
>What's weirder is that it's most likely not going to allow
Additional AT statement (5 pm CST)
https://about.att.com/pages/disaster_relief/nashville.html
We’re putting the full-force of our disaster recovery efforts into
responding to this morning’s explosion in Nashville, including bringing in
regional resources and our National Disaster Recovery
On 12/25/20 2:32 PM, John Levine wrote:
In article <3b0bc95b-c741-7561-1692-75fac74d5...@mtcc.com> you write:
I'd definitely appreciate symmetric, or at least better in upstream.
Obviously zoom and all of that has made a lie of us not needing
upstream. It would make cloud based "filesystems"
Niels,
CoD is just a game. Doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things if you have to
wait a day to play it, unless you’re willing to pay 2x more for 10x speed. Then
you’re entitled to the higher speed — occasionally.
As George Carlin said about video games, “Just what we need: a generation
In article <3b0bc95b-c741-7561-1692-75fac74d5...@mtcc.com> you write:
>I'd definitely appreciate symmetric, or at least better in upstream.
>Obviously zoom and all of that has made a lie of us not needing
>upstream. It would make cloud based "filesystems" more feasible too.
>
>But the larger
> On Dec 25, 2020, at 9:16 PM, Mark Tinka wrote:
>> I Have an RB4011 and while it does work very well for the price it is not
>> really practical for the sort of people who don't reside on this list.
> Which says what about 10Gbps-in-the-home practicality?
Mark is right, you’re wrong. 10G
fre. 25. dec. 2020 21.49 skrev Michael Thomas :
>
> On 12/25/20 12:40 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
> >
> > The other aspect of it is that we're doing these downloads while
> > continuing to play other games and chat (both things sensitive to
> > latency). Some have family/roommates in the home, so
On 12/25/20 1:25 PM, John Levine wrote:
In article you write:
I'm fine with "free stuff". But it seems we've hit saturation on a
number of front like camera and screen pixels, ghz of cpu, TB's of disk,
Gb's of netio for residential stuff.
My provider on the other (Volcano Internet) doesn't
On 12/25/20 1:22 PM, Niels Bakker wrote:
Wouldn't cpe that implements proper queuing disciplines be a lot
simpler and cheaper? I got bit by that once when a friend was
downloading a game and it. I flashed a router with openwrt and
fiddled with their queuing nobs and everything was golden.
In article you write:
>I'm fine with "free stuff". But it seems we've hit saturation on a
>number of front like camera and screen pixels, ghz of cpu, TB's of disk,
>Gb's of netio for residential stuff.
>
>My provider on the other (Volcano Internet) doesn't seem to have got
>this memo though.
* m...@mtcc.com (Michael Thomas) [Fri 25 Dec 2020, 21:18 CET]:
On 12/25/20 11:34 AM, Niels Bakker wrote:
Gigabit speeds are about bursting. Foreground activities like
gaming, making online reservations, streaming won't take more than
that, but anything faster is really nice to have when
On 12/25/20 12:53 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Michael Thomas said:
On 12/25/20 12:40 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
The other aspect of it is that we're doing these downloads while
continuing to play other games and chat (both things sensitive to
latency). Some have family/roommates
Once upon a time, Michael Thomas said:
> On 12/25/20 12:40 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
> >The other aspect of it is that we're doing these downloads while
> >continuing to play other games and chat (both things sensitive to
> >latency). Some have family/roommates in the home, so they may be
>
On 12/25/20 12:40 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
The other aspect of it is that we're doing these downloads while
continuing to play other games and chat (both things sensitive to
latency). Some have family/roommates in the home, so they may be
streaming audio and/or video at the same time. Do we
Once upon a time, Michael Thomas said:
> On 12/25/20 11:39 AM, Cory Sell wrote:
> >I saturate my 1G connection most during game downloads, file
> >downloads/uploads, full backup uploads, etc.
> >
> >I also self-host a lot of services for personal use and having
> >that peak speed is really nice
Can confirm internet service in Kentucky is being affected.
> On Dec 25, 2020, at 3:33 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
>
> I think the outage is a bit more widespread than "Nashville and surrounding
> areas." Most (all?) of Kentucky is without AT cellular service right now.
>
> I can't say for
I think the outage is a bit more widespread than "Nashville and surrounding
areas." Most (all?) of Kentucky is without AT cellular service right
now.
I can't say for sure of how many of AT's residential internet customers
are affected, but reports on Twitter indicate it's a pretty significant
On 12/25/20 21:57, Tony Wicks wrote:
I Have an RB4011 and while it does work very well for the price it is not
really practical for the sort of people who don't reside on this list.
Which says what about 10Gbps-in-the-home practicality?
Firstly the single 10G port means you have to
On 12/25/20 21:45, Michael Thomas wrote:
Obviously for downloads it's nice, but how often is that happening? A
time or two a month max? It seems sort of strange the providers would
build out infrastructure for such a niche activity.
Haha, that's the trick; they don't.
Because the logic
On 12/25/20 21:39, Cory Sell via NANOG wrote:
I saturate my 1G connection most during game downloads, file
downloads/uploads, full backup uploads, etc.
Same here, but how often does this happen?
I upload my videos to Youtube once a week, if not less, at the most. The
kids, more
On 12/25/20 21:34, Niels Bakker wrote:
Gigabit speeds are about bursting. Foreground activities like gaming,
making online reservations, streaming won't take more than that, but
anything faster is really nice to have when you're waiting for the odd
software download to finish. (You may
On 12/25/20 11:34 AM, Niels Bakker wrote:
* mark.ti...@seacom.com (Mark Tinka) [Fri 25 Dec 2020, 19:11 CET]:
I have a mate up the road who just paid for a 1Gbps FTTH service
because it was the same price as a 100Mbps one. He generally lives
between 900Kbps and 20Mbps.
Gigabit-level FTTH
I see the logo now :
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1640386,-86.7765438,3a,34.8y,283.85h,92.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sle30GenlolagNX2ldhGcwQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Most amazingly, in some, *but not all*, Google street view shots, the ATT
logo is completely blurred out!
I Have an RB4011 and while it does work very well for the price it is not
really practical for the sort of people who don't reside on this list. Firstly
the single 10G port means you have to connect it via a separate 10G switch and
then vlan the external connection to the ONT via another switch
Politico photo seems to have been filtered or dropped. 2nd Attempt:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/25/explosion-downtown-nashville-450448
> On Dec 25, 2020, at 2:42 PM, Rodney Joffe wrote:
>
> It seems to be here:
>
>
As a power user who now has 4Gb/s FDX at home I can definitively say as an end
user you really can’t tell much of different from my previous 1G/0.5Gbs GPON in
normal use. However there are a couple of areas that I have noticed a
difference –
1. Upstream. On GPON I had 500Mb/s upstream
Ah-ha! Thanks for the correction. So the tandem office is the big red
windowless building?
On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 11:51 AM Sean Donelan wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Dec 2020, cosmo wrote:
> > The internet is buzzing with speculation about this. According to CNN
> the RV
> > was at 2nd and Commerce st,
On Fri, 25 Dec 2020, cosmo wrote:
The internet is buzzing with speculation about this. According to CNN the RV
was at 2nd and Commerce st, which puts it 1-block away from the ATT
building. If it were the target, I'd imagine they would have parked it
closer.
Folks are confusing two different AT
During their press conference, the Nashville Metro PD put the RV at 166 2nd
Ave N, which is across the street from the 185 2nd Ave N location.
It's halfway up the block from 2nd & Commerce.
On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 2:36 PM Andy Ringsmuth wrote:
> Definitely was not at that intersection.
>
>
On 12/25/20 11:39 AM, Cory Sell wrote:
I saturate my 1G connection most during game downloads, file
downloads/uploads, full backup uploads, etc.
I also self-host a lot of services for personal use and having that
peak speed is really nice when you need it. It also had no traffic
limit per
It seems to be here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1645601,-86.7768622,3a,60y,145.84h,88.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqJHVrYi75RWSsuTlBGAg6g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Here’s a link to a photo on Politico that matches:
Note: Hooters sign on left.
> On Dec 25, 2020, at 2:33 PM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote:
>
>
I stand corrected! Maybe there is merit to this theory then.
On Fri, Dec 25, 2020, 11:37 AM Andy Ringsmuth wrote:
> Definitely was not at that intersection.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nygTJeu9fU
>
> That’s security camera footage from about 154 2nd Ave. The AT building
> is across
I saturate my 1G connection most during game downloads, file downloads/uploads,
full backup uploads, etc.
I also self-host a lot of services for personal use and having that peak speed
is really nice when you need it. It also had no traffic limit per month which
is my biggest complaint about
The building is an ILEC CO and wire centre.
It is the main local transiting interconnect
point for voice services in the 470 LATA, and
also one of the toll tandems for the region.
At 02:18 PM 25/12/2020, Andy Ringsmuth wrote:
Certainly thankful no serious injuries or fatalities in this
* mark.ti...@seacom.com (Mark Tinka) [Fri 25 Dec 2020, 19:11 CET]:
I have a mate up the road who just paid for a 1Gbps FTTH service
because it was the same price as a 100Mbps one. He generally lives
between 900Kbps and 20Mbps.
Gigabit-level FTTH services for the home, I feel, have always been
Definitely was not at that intersection.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nygTJeu9fU
That’s security camera footage from about 154 2nd Ave. The AT building is
across the street to the right.
Commerce Street is a block to the left.
Andy Ringsmuth
5609 Harding Drive
Lincoln, NE 68521-5831
AT statement regarding the intentional explosion in Nashville TN
"Service for some customers in Nashville and the surrounding areas may be
affected by damage to our facilities from the explosion this morning. We
are in contact with law enforcement and working as quickly and safely as
On 12/25/20 11:04 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
On 12/25/20 20:10, Hunter Fuller via NANOG wrote:
It would meet some customers’ needs because multiple people could use
1G of service at a time. I think it is interesting to distinguish
“>1G CPE” from “true 10G CPE” and I suspect many / most
The internet is buzzing with speculation about this. According to CNN the
RV was at 2nd and Commerce st, which puts it 1-block away from the ATT
building. If it were the target, I'd imagine they would have parked it
closer.
Certainly thankful no serious injuries or fatalities in this clusterblank.
It seems the AT building at 185 2nd Ave N may have been a target, which would
explain the timing (holiday morning when no one is out, as opposed to a holiday
evening when there would be mass casualties). A little curious
On Fri, 25 Dec 2020, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
On Thu, 24 Dec 2020, Ben Cannon wrote:
Anyone else doing it? Do you like your gear?
Haven't tested it myself, but the 10GE residential provider here in Sweden is
using some kind of Huawei HGW that typically is used for XGPON but has had
its
On Thu, 24 Dec 2020, Ben Cannon wrote:
Anyone else doing it? Do you like your gear?
Haven't tested it myself, but the 10GE residential provider here in Sweden
is using some kind of Huawei HGW that typically is used for XGPON but has
had its WAN MAC swapped out for 10GBASE-LR use.
--
On 12/25/20 20:21, Jared Mauch wrote:
Think more using your PON network to also serve commercial customers so you
don't need high end CPE to hit 1-5Gbps or WDM setups. .
This already happens today, because sales folk want to close deals.
Whether PON actually works for an Enterprise
On 12/25/20 20:10, Hunter Fuller via NANOG wrote:
It would meet some customers’ needs because multiple people could use
1G of service at a time. I think it is interesting to distinguish “>1G
CPE” from “true 10G CPE” and I suspect many / most customers are
looking for the former.
Large
On 12/25/20 20:03, Cory Sell via NANOG wrote:
Just because nobody is mentioning it - you can always build a
pfSense/VyOS/Vyatta box in whatever form factor you’d prefer. Even can
run within a VM if you really want to.
Not exactly "home" friendly :-).
Mark.
On 12/25/20 20:18, Bryan Fields wrote:
My point was the gear is not there yet for the non-technical people.
And that is saying much...
Most TV's, the PS4, the Apple TV, e.t.c., still run at 100Mbps max.,
offering plenty of 4K services.
There clearly is no legitimate use-case for Joe
> On Dec 25, 2020, at 12:48 PM, Bryan Fields wrote:
>
> 10g to the home is a great idea to think about, it's just not terribly
> practical for most customers unless they want to drop 1-2k on routing gear and
> nics. This is always changing, but it's going to be a few years until we
> reach
On 12/25/20 1:03 PM, Cory Sell wrote:
> Just because nobody is mentioning it - you can always build a
> pfSense/VyOS/Vyatta box in whatever form factor you’d prefer. Even can run
> within a VM if you really want to.
My point was the gear is not there yet for the non-technical people. Anyone
On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 12:07 Cory Sell via NANOG wrote:
> Just because nobody is mentioning it - you can always build a
> pfSense/VyOS/Vyatta box in whatever form factor you’d prefer. Even can run
> within a VM if you really want to.
>
For a CPE, openwrt would also work well. It runs well on a
On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 11:46 Bryan Fields wrote:
> On 12/25/20 4:52 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
> > For the home, if you're looking at shipping 10Gbps-based CPE's for under
> > US$200, I can't think of anything other than the Tik:
> >
> > https://mikrotik.com/product/rb4011igs_rm
>
> That has 1
On 12/25/20 19:45, Bryan Fields wrote:
That has 1 10g port. How can that be a 10g CPE?
Realistically, what are you going to be running at 1.01Gbps inside your
home at any given point?
Yes, this may or may not be a rhetorical question.
so, not 10g :)
Show me a single
Just because nobody is mentioning it - you can always build a
pfSense/VyOS/Vyatta box in whatever form factor you’d prefer. Even can run
within a VM if you really want to.
Regards,
Cory
On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 11:45 AM, Bryan Fields wrote:
> On 12/25/20 4:52 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
>> For the
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On 12/25/20 4:52 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
> For the home, if you're looking at shipping 10Gbps-based CPE's for under
> US$200, I can't think of anything other than the Tik:
>
> https://mikrotik.com/product/rb4011igs_rm
That has 1 10g port. How can that be a 10g CPE?
> They claim:
>
>
On 12/25/20 08:04, Tony Wicks wrote:
Stand alone RGW's are hard to find, I'd be interested to hear if people have
found anything smaller than the Mikrotik RB4011...
Funny, that's the very unit I recommended as well in my previous post to
Brandon :-).
As reasonably-priced devices that
On 12/25/20 05:53, Brandon Martin wrote:
One of my router vendors has been teasing me with a "true 10Gb" router
due out 1Q 2021. I've been told to expect NBASE-T (1G, 2.5G, 5G, 10G)
on both WAN and all LAN ports + 802.11ax "Wifi 6" with at least 5Gbps
of real-world IPv4 throughput with
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