Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Paul Stenquist]

Excellent! All of the recent Pentax glass had been superb. This should be as 
well. Probably $1500 or more but less than what an FA 85/1.4 currently goes for.

Paul via phone

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 9:11 PM, Matthew Hunt  wrote:
> 
> Well, I don't think Pentax will be encouraging Sigma to release the 85/1.4
> in K-mount...
> 
> http://pentaxrumors.com/2017/02/22/pentax-d-fa-85mm-f1-4-lens-also-on-the-2017-roadmap/
> 
>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Jostein Øksne  wrote:
>> 
>> Some years back, many people lamented the lack of a super tele for Pentax.
>> Sigma had a 500/4.5 listed in their catalogue for K-mount, but not readily
>> available. However, they did do a production run when enough people had
>> voiced an interest.
>> Nice lens. Full format and all, not that I need it to be. :-)
>> Jostein
>> 
>> Den 21. februar 2017 20.13.04 CET, skrev Darren Addy <
>> pixelsmi...@gmail.com>:
>>> You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
>>> lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).
>>> 
>>> This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
>>> http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-
>> four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/
>> 
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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Matthew Hunt]

Well, I don't think Pentax will be encouraging Sigma to release the 85/1.4
in K-mount...

http://pentaxrumors.com/2017/02/22/pentax-d-fa-85mm-f1-4-lens-also-on-the-2017-roadmap/

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Jostein Øksne  wrote:

> Some years back, many people lamented the lack of a super tele for Pentax.
> Sigma had a 500/4.5 listed in their catalogue for K-mount, but not readily
> available. However, they did do a production run when enough people had
> voiced an interest.
> Nice lens. Full format and all, not that I need it to be. :-)
> Jostein
>
> Den 21. februar 2017 20.13.04 CET, skrev Darren Addy <
> pixelsmi...@gmail.com>:
> >You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
> >lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).
> >
> >This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
> >http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-
> four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/
>
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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Jostein Øksne]

Some years back, many people lamented the lack of a super tele for Pentax. 
Sigma had a 500/4.5 listed in their catalogue for K-mount, but not readily 
available. However, they did do a production run when enough people had voiced 
an interest. 
Nice lens. Full format and all, not that I need it to be. :-) 
Jostein

Den 21. februar 2017 20.13.04 CET, skrev Darren Addy :
>You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
>lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).
>
>This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
>http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/

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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Mark Roberts]

Larry Colen wrote:

>There was an interview in the past year or so, and I can't find it right 
>now, which listed two reasons.  The first was the low volume of sales. 
>The other reason was Pentax's lack of electronic aperture controls. 
>Shortly thereafter Pentax announced the new electronic aperture controls.

Yep. At this point Sigma is going to be designing all its premium
lenses with electronically controlled aperture. The change for each
lens mount they support is minimal compared to designing complete
mechanically operated aperture just for one manufacturer (one with
small sales volume, at that).

Although it isn't clear from the photos I've seen so far it certainly
looks to me as if the new D-FA 50/1.4 has no diaphragm actuation
lever.
 
-- 
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www.robertstech.com





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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Zos Xavius]

They stopped making new ones though. They brought over the 18-35 but
not the 50-100. So as they slowly phase out lenses they will
eventually make no pentax lenses at all. I like the bigma at least.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:16 PM, P. J. Alling
 wrote:
> Sigma does make Pentax K mount lenses, but Sigma is going to make lenses
> they can sell.  Pentax has to convince Sigma the their user base will buy
> their lenses to make it worth their while. Seriously, remembering the
> Sig[nificant] Ma[lfunctions] period. I'm always skittish of buying a Sigma
> product.  The company has made great strides in putting those days behind
> them, but...
>
>
> On 2/21/2017 2:13 PM, Darren Addy wrote:
>>
>> You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
>> lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).
>>
>> This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
>>
>> http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Zos Xavius]

Resolution wise it looks fantastic. Better than the otus even. Is
resolution everything in portraits though? I find the focus rolloff
and bokeh a bit clinical but that's me. I just doesn't have enough
feels if you get what I mean. Its also really large and heavy. It
almost pains me to say, but I would rather have the 77ltd.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> Yes, Im hopelessly behind. If I were shooting a lot of studio portraits I 
> would want that.
>
> Paul via phone
>
>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 3:12 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
>>
>> The 85 art has already been released. Time to catch up. ;)
>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>>> Sigma hasn't announced an 85mm lens, at least not according to this article.
>>>
 On Feb 21, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:

 A bunch of people want an 85..

> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Paul Stenquist  
> wrote:
> Of the four new lenses Pentax already offers two of them, a 24-70/2.8 and 
> the 150-450 (which is faster than the Sigma 100-400). The 14mm and 135mm 
> would be nice additions, but perhaps Pentax is already planning to fill 
> that gap. I probably wouldn’t want the 14mm, because the Pentax 15-30 
> pretty much covers that off. The 135/ 1.8 would be nice perhaps.
>
>
>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
>>
>> That would be suicidal and here is why: plenty of pentax users are
>> leaving for canikon because they want the new sigma lenses. Pentax
>> would be utterly foolish to discourage 3rd party options on their
>> mount.
>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Paul Stenquist  
>>> wrote:
>>> Ricoh probably doesn’t want Sigma to make lenses for Pentax cameras. 
>>> Pentax volume is small enough as it is. Why would they want to lose 
>>> some of the lens biz to a competitor?
 On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:

 You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
 lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).

 This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
 http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/


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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[P. J. Alling]

Sigma does make Pentax K mount lenses, but Sigma is going to make lenses 
they can sell.  Pentax has to convince Sigma the their user base will 
buy their lenses to make it worth their while. Seriously, remembering 
the Sig[nificant] Ma[lfunctions] period. I'm always skittish of buying a 
Sigma product.  The company has made great strides in putting those days 
behind them, but...



On 2/21/2017 2:13 PM, Darren Addy wrote:

You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).

This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/





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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Gonz]

I was lucky enough to get an FA 85 1.4 in the bad ole days of ebay
when things could be had for a lot less than market if you were
patient enough.  Now they cost more than many new lenses since Pentax
did not make a replacement for this in full frame.


On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:45 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> Yes, Im hopelessly behind. If I were shooting a lot of studio portraits I 
> would want that.
>
> Paul via phone
>
>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 3:12 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
>>
>> The 85 art has already been released. Time to catch up. ;)
>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>>> Sigma hasn't announced an 85mm lens, at least not according to this article.
>>>
 On Feb 21, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:

 A bunch of people want an 85..

> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Paul Stenquist  
> wrote:
> Of the four new lenses Pentax already offers two of them, a 24-70/2.8 and 
> the 150-450 (which is faster than the Sigma 100-400). The 14mm and 135mm 
> would be nice additions, but perhaps Pentax is already planning to fill 
> that gap. I probably wouldn’t want the 14mm, because the Pentax 15-30 
> pretty much covers that off. The 135/ 1.8 would be nice perhaps.
>
>
>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
>>
>> That would be suicidal and here is why: plenty of pentax users are
>> leaving for canikon because they want the new sigma lenses. Pentax
>> would be utterly foolish to discourage 3rd party options on their
>> mount.
>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Paul Stenquist  
>>> wrote:
>>> Ricoh probably doesn’t want Sigma to make lenses for Pentax cameras. 
>>> Pentax volume is small enough as it is. Why would they want to lose 
>>> some of the lens biz to a competitor?
 On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:

 You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
 lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).

 This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
 http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/


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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Paul Stenquist]

Yes, Im hopelessly behind. If I were shooting a lot of studio portraits I would 
want that. 

Paul via phone

> On Feb 21, 2017, at 3:12 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
> 
> The 85 art has already been released. Time to catch up. ;)
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>> Sigma hasn't announced an 85mm lens, at least not according to this article.
>> 
>>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A bunch of people want an 85..
>>> 
 On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Paul Stenquist  
 wrote:
 Of the four new lenses Pentax already offers two of them, a 24-70/2.8 and 
 the 150-450 (which is faster than the Sigma 100-400). The 14mm and 135mm 
 would be nice additions, but perhaps Pentax is already planning to fill 
 that gap. I probably wouldn’t want the 14mm, because the Pentax 15-30 
 pretty much covers that off. The 135/ 1.8 would be nice perhaps.
 
 
> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
> 
> That would be suicidal and here is why: plenty of pentax users are
> leaving for canikon because they want the new sigma lenses. Pentax
> would be utterly foolish to discourage 3rd party options on their
> mount.
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Paul Stenquist  
>> wrote:
>> Ricoh probably doesn’t want Sigma to make lenses for Pentax cameras. 
>> Pentax volume is small enough as it is. Why would they want to lose some 
>> of the lens biz to a competitor?
>>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
>>> lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).
>>> 
>>> This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
>>> http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above
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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Collin Brendemuehl]

I don't know if the problem is a Pentax/Ricoh problem.
It's a volume sales question and that old, vicious cycle.
They probably would produce the lenses if the body sales were up ... you
know how that goes.
Escaping the cycle requires lots of marketing media dollars.
I don't foresee that coming.


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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Larry Colen]

Paul Stenquist wrote:

Sigma hasn't announced an 85mm lens, at least not according to this article.


You mean like this one?
https://petapixel.com/2016/10/17/review-sigmas-85mm-f1-4-art-lens-exceeds-expectations/



On Feb 21, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:

A bunch of people want an 85..




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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Zos Xavius]

The 85 art has already been released. Time to catch up. ;)

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> Sigma hasn't announced an 85mm lens, at least not according to this article.
>
>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
>>
>> A bunch of people want an 85..
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Paul Stenquist  
>> wrote:
>>> Of the four new lenses Pentax already offers two of them, a 24-70/2.8 and 
>>> the 150-450 (which is faster than the Sigma 100-400). The 14mm and 135mm 
>>> would be nice additions, but perhaps Pentax is already planning to fill 
>>> that gap. I probably wouldn’t want the 14mm, because the Pentax 15-30 
>>> pretty much covers that off. The 135/ 1.8 would be nice perhaps.
>>>
>>>
 On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:

 That would be suicidal and here is why: plenty of pentax users are
 leaving for canikon because they want the new sigma lenses. Pentax
 would be utterly foolish to discourage 3rd party options on their
 mount.

 On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Paul Stenquist  
 wrote:
> Ricoh probably doesn’t want Sigma to make lenses for Pentax cameras. 
> Pentax volume is small enough as it is. Why would they want to lose some 
> of the lens biz to a competitor?
>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
>>
>> You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
>> lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).
>>
>> This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
>> http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/
>>
>>
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>> ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above
>>
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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Larry Colen]

Paul Stenquist wrote:

Of the four new lenses Pentax already offers two of them, a 24-70/2.8 and the 
150-450 (which is faster than the Sigma 100-400). The 14mm and 135mm would be 
nice additions, but perhaps Pentax is already planning to fill that gap. I 
probably wouldn’t want the 14mm, because the Pentax 15-30 pretty much covers 
that off. The 135/ 1.8 would be nice perhaps.


I'm always shooting at the crazy end of available light and the 14/1.8 
is really appealing to me, even having the 15-30, because for 
astrolandscape work that extra stop and a third makes a huge difference, 
and depth of field isn't that critical when you are photographing with 
wide angle lenses at infinity focus.


Similarly the 135/1.8 would be very handy for photographing musicians, 
particularly if  Ricoh were to put enough focus points in the body.  The 
K-1 is a huge improvement for photographing musicians rather than 
microphones, but they've still got a ways to go.


I guess we have a week or so to go to see what announcements are coming 
at CP+.  There are a lot of lenses that I wish I could have, in much the 
same way that I might as well debate whether to get a supercharged or a 
normally aspirated lotus.






On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:

That would be suicidal and here is why: plenty of pentax users are
leaving for canikon because they want the new sigma lenses. Pentax
would be utterly foolish to discourage 3rd party options on their
mount.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:

Ricoh probably doesn’t want Sigma to make lenses for Pentax cameras. Pentax 
volume is small enough as it is. Why would they want to lose some of the lens 
biz to a competitor?

On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:

You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).

This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/


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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Paul Stenquist]

Sigma hasn't announced an 85mm lens, at least not according to this article.

> On Feb 21, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
> 
> A bunch of people want an 85..
> 
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Paul Stenquist  
> wrote:
>> Of the four new lenses Pentax already offers two of them, a 24-70/2.8 and 
>> the 150-450 (which is faster than the Sigma 100-400). The 14mm and 135mm 
>> would be nice additions, but perhaps Pentax is already planning to fill that 
>> gap. I probably wouldn’t want the 14mm, because the Pentax 15-30 pretty much 
>> covers that off. The 135/ 1.8 would be nice perhaps.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That would be suicidal and here is why: plenty of pentax users are
>>> leaving for canikon because they want the new sigma lenses. Pentax
>>> would be utterly foolish to discourage 3rd party options on their
>>> mount.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
 Ricoh probably doesn’t want Sigma to make lenses for Pentax cameras. 
 Pentax volume is small enough as it is. Why would they want to lose some 
 of the lens biz to a competitor?
> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
> 
> You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
> lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).
> 
> This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
> http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/
> 
> 
> --
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> ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above
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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Zos Xavius]

A bunch of people want an 85..

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> Of the four new lenses Pentax already offers two of them, a 24-70/2.8 and the 
> 150-450 (which is faster than the Sigma 100-400). The 14mm and 135mm would be 
> nice additions, but perhaps Pentax is already planning to fill that gap. I 
> probably wouldn’t want the 14mm, because the Pentax 15-30 pretty much covers 
> that off. The 135/ 1.8 would be nice perhaps.
>
>
>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
>>
>> That would be suicidal and here is why: plenty of pentax users are
>> leaving for canikon because they want the new sigma lenses. Pentax
>> would be utterly foolish to discourage 3rd party options on their
>> mount.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>>> Ricoh probably doesn’t want Sigma to make lenses for Pentax cameras. Pentax 
>>> volume is small enough as it is. Why would they want to lose some of the 
>>> lens biz to a competitor?
 On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:

 You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
 lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).

 This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
 http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/


 --
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 ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above

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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Larry Colen]

Zos Xavius wrote:

Why? Because pentax decided to make cameras that Sigma lenses do not
fit on anymore which cost sigma money to fix. I would say there is bad
blood. The small market share isn't likely enough to convince them
that kmount is worth their time.


There was an interview in the past year or so, and I can't find it right 
now, which listed two reasons.  The first was the low volume of sales. 
The other reason was Pentax's lack of electronic aperture controls. 
Shortly thereafter Pentax announced the new electronic aperture controls.


I did find this interesting bit on why Sigma still makes camera bodies
https://petapixel.com/2016/10/12/sigma-still-make-cameras-sigma-ceo-blames-zombie-father/

Just found it:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/04/02/sigma-qa-part-i-ceo-kazuto-yamaki-explains-why-so-few-pentax-mount-lenses

DE: That's interesting, your comment about the engineers. It makes 
sense: Engineers just want to optimize their own designs, not 
consciously make things more difficult for third parties.


One of our readers asked why you offer so few of your lenses with the 
Pentax mount, and he also asked about longer telephotos, in particular. 
If the mounts are fairly simple -- if it's really just a matter of 
changing out the mount, shouldn't it be possible to make more Pentax 
lenses? Or is it still just a cost issue, even for a relatively small 
investment?


[Note, this section has been edited 4/12/14, as I had misunderstood what 
Yamaki san was saying, see the editorial note following this exchange]


KY: Pentax still uses mechanical parts to control the aperture. So, 
mechanically, it's totally different from other mounts, even though it 
uses the same optics. Making a Pentax mount means we have to use special 
parts just for Pentax mounts.


DE: It's a whole different aperture mechanism that you have to use. Ah, 
that's very interesting.


KY: Yes. So, we'd like to make as many lenses for Pentax as possible, 
but with very small demand we cannot make them frequently. For such a 
lens, the long back-order times are a big problem for us. So we cannot 
make too wide a product line for Pentax. For example, a 300mm f/2.8 -- 
maybe we can produce this for Pentax once every few months; but some 
people may need a 300mm f/2.8 now. We cannot make it so often.


DE: Ah -- you can't afford to carry a large inventory given the small 
sales volume, but you also have a minimum production run that's 
economically viable. So you end up having long lead times, sometimes. I 
see, that makes sense, very interesting.


[Ed. Note: I'd originally misinterpreted Yamaki san's comments here, so 
he clarified what he was saying in a further email exchange I had with 
him. I had thought he was saying that Pentax lenses were different 
simply because they used a mechanical aperture coupling, vs an 
electronic one. As several astute readers pointed out, they do, but so 
do lenses from Nikon and Sony.


Yamaki san's point is that lenses with mechanical aperture mechanisms 
require separate production runs to produce each type, vs an electronic 
system that would just need a different arrangement of contacts and 
reprogramming of the lens's CPU.


The problem for Pentaxians is that there just aren't enough of them, so 
demand for Pentax-mount lenses is small to the point that it's 
economically difficult to produce them, or at least to do so in a way 
that would keep Pentax users happy.


The issue is that the smaller a production run, the more costly each 
individual unit is, due to inefficiencies associated with switching the 
production line from one lens to another. As the run length becomes 
smaller, that fixed switchover cost become a bigger and bigger part of 
the cost of each unit. From a practical standpoint, there's a lower 
limit on run length, below which it's just not profitable for them to 
produce a product.


For popular lens models, the minimum production run isn't too big a 
problem for Pentax users, as there's enough demand that Sigma can 
produce a batch of lenses often enough to more or less keep them in 
stock in the retail channel. As you get into slightly more obscure, 
specialized, or perhaps more expensive glass with less demand, though, 
the minimum affordable production run for a given model might amount to 
6 months, a year, or even a couple of years' worth of demand on the 
Pentax mount.


As Yamaki san explained to me, it wouldn't be viable for him to produce 
and market a lens that might be unavailable in the market for 6 months 
or a year at a time - Potential customers would become very unhappy with 
Sigma over the poor availability. (And, adding my own interpretation 
here, how could they efficiently let people know "hey, remember that 
cool lens we said we were making for the Pentax mount that hasn't been 
available for the last year? It's available now, so get out your wallets!")


At first thought, you might say "well, what's the problem, they can just 
build a 

Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Paul Stenquist]

Of the four new lenses Pentax already offers two of them, a 24-70/2.8 and the 
150-450 (which is faster than the Sigma 100-400). The 14mm and 135mm would be 
nice additions, but perhaps Pentax is already planning to fill that gap. I 
probably wouldn’t want the 14mm, because the Pentax 15-30 pretty much covers 
that off. The 135/ 1.8 would be nice perhaps.


> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
> 
> That would be suicidal and here is why: plenty of pentax users are
> leaving for canikon because they want the new sigma lenses. Pentax
> would be utterly foolish to discourage 3rd party options on their
> mount.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>> Ricoh probably doesn’t want Sigma to make lenses for Pentax cameras. Pentax 
>> volume is small enough as it is. Why would they want to lose some of the 
>> lens biz to a competitor?
>>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
>>> lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).
>>> 
>>> This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
>>> http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> “The Earth is Art, The Photographer is only a Witness ”
>>> ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above
>>> 
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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Zos Xavius]

That would be suicidal and here is why: plenty of pentax users are
leaving for canikon because they want the new sigma lenses. Pentax
would be utterly foolish to discourage 3rd party options on their
mount.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> Ricoh probably doesn’t want Sigma to make lenses for Pentax cameras. Pentax 
> volume is small enough as it is. Why would they want to lose some of the lens 
> biz to a competitor?
>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
>>
>> You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
>> lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).
>>
>> This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
>> http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/
>>
>>
>> --
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>> ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above
>>
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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Zos Xavius]

Why? Because pentax decided to make cameras that Sigma lenses do not
fit on anymore which cost sigma money to fix. I would say there is bad
blood. The small market share isn't likely enough to convince them
that kmount is worth their time.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
> You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
> lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).
>
> This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
> http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/
>
>
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> ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above
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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Darren Addy]

I would argue that it is the same reason why Apple doesn't want Adobe
to stop developing software for the Mac - even when Apple has a
competing product. Considering that these are all lenses in focal
ratios that Pentax is probably not going to make a directly competing
lens for, it helps sell more bodies.

For example, a 14mm f1.8 is important enough to me (for low light
storm photography) that it might make me want to buy a full frame
Nikon body to get to use it, instead of getting a K-1.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> Ricoh probably doesn’t want Sigma to make lenses for Pentax cameras. Pentax 
> volume is small enough as it is. Why would they want to lose some of the lens 
> biz to a competitor?
>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
>>
>> You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
>> lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).
>>
>> This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
>> http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/
>>
>>
>> --
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>> ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above
>>
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>> follow the directions.
>
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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Gonz]

But some of those lenses fill a niche unfilled by current offerings
(new) from Ricoh.  I guess they are hoping to fill those gaps at some
point?  I.e. there are no (new) extreme telephoto primes (600/4 for
example, 400/2.8) in full frame.  Or tilt-shift (they prolly expect
software to this), or prime portrait (85/1.4), extra wide telephoto (<
15mm), fisheye, soft lenses (like the 28 soft/85 soft of old).  You
kinda have to buy used stock to get any of these lenses.


On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> Ricoh probably doesn’t want Sigma to make lenses for Pentax cameras. Pentax 
> volume is small enough as it is. Why would they want to lose some of the lens 
> biz to a competitor?
>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
>>
>> You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
>> lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).
>>
>> This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
>> http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/
>>
>>
>> --
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>> ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above
>>
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Re: What can Pentax do to convince Sigma to make K mount lenses again?

[Paul Stenquist]

Ricoh probably doesn’t want Sigma to make lenses for Pentax cameras. Pentax 
volume is small enough as it is. Why would they want to lose some of the lens 
biz to a competitor?
> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
> 
> You know Sigma has the tooling/technology. I have three Sigma EX AF
> lenses and they are all wonderful (50-500mm, 10-20mm, and 28mm f1.8).
> 
> This announcement does not include a Pentax mount:
> http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/02/21/sigma-announces-four-new-lenses-including-the-full-frame-14mm-f1-8-dg-hsm-art/
> 
> 
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> “The Earth is Art, The Photographer is only a Witness ”
> ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above
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