Louis Proyect wrote:
Carrol:
in astronomy or esp
I don't know. That astronomy is pretty fishy stuff. The astronomy
Got me! :-)
Carrol
The development of GM foods in China is a very mixed blessing. Companies such as
Monsanto are quite active there and may become more active as other countries
place barriers
on the development of GM seeds. The present trend towards capitalism in China
will only be
furthered. The development of
Emilio
Apocalypse Now
By Alfredo Molano B.
The Anti-Narcotics Brigade, in a victory march, will open door after door in
Putumayo and Caqueta so that Carlos Castano's troops can, in Mrs. Albright's
words "extend democracy to the south". EL ESPECTADOR Sunday, 25 June 2000
At 19:48 28/06/00 -0400, you wrote:
Whatever ecological reservations progressive people may have about this, it
is entirely understandable that a country like China needs to make a major
push to gain relative advantage in the world. This would release vast
amounts of labour power and
Rod Hay wrote:
Okay, Mark, please explain why no other energy technology is feasible.
This kind of thing is debated on Jay Hanson's list, where ex-vice presidents
of PV companies argue that PV's are the future and people answer them like
this:
From: Mark Boberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed
Entropy is of course a key concept in any meaningful discussion about
energy. The argument that energy supply is 'infinite' derives from the
neo-classical economics concept of substitutability. The argument does not
of course (for obvious epistemological reasons) take account of the bounded
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have found myself in agreement with Lou's recent post suggesting that
the roots of ecological crisis and overpopulation pressures lie in the
contradictions of capitalism, and that a socialist revolution is not
only necessary but also desirable if we are to have a
I don't understand. Is the YES meant to imply that electricity production
depends ultimately upon fossil fuels?
Unless you live in the Pacific Northwest or France, the bulk of your
electricity comes from power plants that burn fossil fuels...
HE: . . . We intellectuals have to join the organizations of these
committed workers and help them write a consistent programme
how to avoid ecological catastrophe by a world wide
proletarian revolution, and establish a minority
dictatorship which will carry out this programme with
Stalinist
Can anyone tell me how to unsubscribe?
regards
Turan Subasat
Charles Brown wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/28/00 05:27PM And Rod also wrote:
It's just that as
a point of departure global warming will not work.
)
CB: I don't think the facts of the recent history of party formation support you
here, Carrol. The biggest new party in
Hans, do Hillier/Buttler have some secret parallel list where they hold the
*real* discussion, as opposed to the vacuous imbecilism of their
front-organisation, the marxist-leninist-take-me-for-an-idiot-list?
Mark Jones
http://www.egroups.com/group/CrashList
- Original Message -
From:
M A Jones wrote:
But capitalism will collapse anyway.
Right. Where have I heard that one before?
Doug
o la la.. Jay Hanson's energy list serv? never been to, but it must be
interesting. Jay is a phenomenal guy personality wise. Three basic ideas
he subscribes to in every occasion I have been to: 1) genetic roots of
authoritarianism 2)inherent destructiveness of human nature 3)
inevitability of
Michael Perelman wrote:
I just read that NY City is the largest consumer of pesticides in the state.
Now that you have that part of the agricultural system, may the rest won't be
too hard.
Could you be a little less opaque? Do you mean that reducing
pesticide use will require depopulating the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
what are you trying to prove with your insults Doug? are you implying the
impossibility of a socialist agenda? who is fantasizing here?
Ok, so you don't have any idea what changes are necessary in the
actual structures of production and consumption. All that's required
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/28/00 05:59PM
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have found myself in agreement with Lou's recent post suggesting that
the roots of ecological crisis and overpopulation pressures lie in the
contradictions of capitalism, and that a socialist revolution is not
only necessary but
Doug Henwood wrote:
M A Jones wrote:
But capitalism will collapse anyway.
Right. Where have I heard that one before?
Actually the prediction was made by many old guys millenia ago
before capitalism was ever heard of. You know, the old stuff about
the rise and fall of this or that. ONe
June 28, 2000 / New York TIMES
RECKONINGS/ By PAUL KRUGMAN
Japan's Memento Mori
... Whenever I write about Japan, I get quizzical letters from Americans
who don't see why they should care. The world's second-largest economy is
neither doing well enough to provide villains for a Michael
Charles Brown wrote:
To purport to answer your question fully would be to assume the
approach of a utopian. The answer to your question must come in
the main from the practice, trial and error, of billions of people.
This is evasive. I'm not asking for a 24-volume detailed blueprint -
I'm
By mistake, I've been sending pen-l my wrong web-page address, the
one that refers to the support group for parents of kids with
Asperger's Syndrome (mild autism) that my wife and I run. However,
if you're interested, click away. (Hey, it's my life away from
pen-l!)
Instead, the article
Doug Henwood wrote:
Charles Brown wrote:
To purport to answer your question fully would be to assume the
approach of a utopian. The answer to your question must come in
the main from the practice, trial and error, of billions of people.
This is evasive. I'm not asking for a 24-volume
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/29/00 01:18PM
Doug Henwood wrote:
M A Jones wrote:
But capitalism will collapse anyway.
Right. Where have I heard that one before?
Actually the prediction was made by many old guys millenia ago
before capitalism was ever heard of. You know, the old stuff about
Carrol Cox wrote:
Bullshit Doug. On the contrary, any statement of the kind you want
would be arrogant and stupid, not merely utopian. No one except
a few academics and journalists (I ignore sheer demogogues) has
ever taken up resistance to capitalism on the basis of being convinced
there is a
Carrol Cox wrote:
And frankly I doubt the good faith of
anyone who asks such questions.
You piss me off but I retract that charge.
But I want to push the issue a little further. Over the years I have in
fact moved a number of people to become communist activists, and
I have persuaded
BLS DAILY REPORT, WEDNESDAY, JUNE 28, 2000
RELEASED TODAY: In May, 222 metropolitan areas reported unemployment rates
below the U.S. average (3.9 percent, not seasonally adjusted), while 102
areas registered higher rates. Twenty-nine metropolitan areas had rates
below 2.0 percent, with 12 of
does anyone know the specifics of the Bureau of Labor Statistics' CPI-U-X1
consumer price index? why is it preferred by mainstream macro-econometricians?
thanks ahead of time.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/29/00 01:44PM
Charles Brown wrote:
To purport to answer your question fully would be to assume the
approach of a utopian. The answer to your question must come in
the main from the practice, trial and error, of billions of people.
This is evasive. I'm not asking for
At 1:47 AM +0800 30/6/00, Carrol Cox wrote:
Doug Henwood wrote:
Charles Brown wrote:
To purport to answer your question fully would be to assume the
approach of a utopian. The answer to your question must come in
the main from the practice, trial and error, of billions of people.
This
Jim:
The BLS replaced the CPI-U with the CPI-X1 in 1983 because the CPI-I included
appreciation of the asset value of a home and therefore confused the investment
and consumption dimensions of homeownership. The CPI-X1 tends to show a lower rate
of inflation.
Joel Blau
Jim Devine wrote:
does
Jim Devine wrote:
does anyone know the specifics of the Bureau of Labor Statistics'
CPI-U-X1 consumer price index? why is it preferred by mainstream
macro-econometricians?
It's an experimental revision of the old CPI numbers in accordance
with the change in how housing costs were accounted
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
what are you trying to prove with your insults Doug? are you implying
the
impossibility of a socialist agenda? who is fantasizing here?
Ok, so you don't have any idea what changes are necessary in the
actual structures of production and consumption. All that's
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
what are you trying to prove with your insults Doug? are you implying
the
impossibility of a socialist agenda? who is fantasizing here?
Ok, so you don't have any idea what changes are necessary in the
actual structures of production and consumption. All that's required
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
what are you trying to prove with your insults Doug? are you implying
the
impossibility of a socialist agenda? who is fantasizing here?
Ok, so you don't have any idea what changes are necessary in the
actual structures of production and
Eliminating the distinction between town and country side is a very
abstract though admirable goal. But what does it mean concretely. Better
planning of new housing space? More green space in the city? Better and
more efficient transportation systems? Or is there something more
drastic in mind?
Anthony P. D'Costa
Associate Professor Ph: (253) 692-4462
Comparative International Development Fax: (253) 692-5718
University of Washington
Well, Carroll, I certainly like to see you raise the level of discourse. So it's
arrogant and stupid and in bad faith of Doug to ask for a reason to think that we
could do better if we made some sort of change in a direction you would consider
socialist. well, sign me up to the arrogant,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/29/00 12:01PM
Charles Brown wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/28/00 05:27PM And Rod also wrote:
It's just that as
a point of departure global warming will not work.
)
CB: I don't think the facts of the recent history of party formation support you
thanks. I like the idea of using a consistently-measured consumer price
index, which the CPI-U is not. Since I am using more than one measure of
inflation, I am not upset by the revisions. But this CPI-U-RS only goes
back to 1967, which makes it sort of useless for my purposes.
At 03:42 PM
The latest back-projected CPI is the CPI-U-RS, which revises all the old
numbers to account for all the wondrous changes in the CPI over the last
couple of years. Details at http://www.bls.gov/pdf/cpirsqa.pdf.
I detect irony in the word "wondrous," indicating that you don't approve of
the
Re the discussion of CPI.
I wrote about some of the issues related to a "cost of living" index and a CPI
in a 1999 Review of Radical Political Economics article. I think I have my own
best estimate of a cost of living index in it.
The CPI is almost always used -- wrongly -- to generate "real"
Rod wrote:
Eliminating the distinction between town and country side is a very
abstract though admirable goal. But what does it mean concretely. Better
planning of new housing space? More green space in the city? Better and
more efficient transportation systems? Or is there something more
drastic
sustainable than the U.S. But is a growth rate of 0 low enough? Could
we feed and house 6 billion people if we all spent our time searching
for "Jack-in-the-Pulpits or fishing for pickerel"? That kind of rural
leisure is available to someone living in a rich country; in a poor
country, you'd
On Wed, 28 Jun 2000, Doug Henwood wrote:
How do you propose Japan would collect on this demand? They may be
the creditor, but the U.S. has all the bombs.
That's what all those Chinese and French missile systems are for. If the
new metropoles find the political will, there's plenty of
Carrol:
(and rightly so) has incorporated environmental concers into its program. The
second point in a way is even bigger. The particular action you cite fits
David
Harvey's picture of environmental action, and David Harvey is categorized by
Lou as a "Brown Marxist." I doubt that the protestors
A recent committee of the Liberal government (Canada) has recommended that all
pesticide use in cities be banned. Only agricultural uses would be legal. I think
this might cause a great enforcement problem though. People will sneak out at
night with their Weedex wonderbars. The main concern was
Actually Lou. Although I have a good friend who works for Starbucks, I don't
drink coffee, and have never been in a Starbucks.
I know the history. I know the economic cost. But what is the programme. What
are the concrete steps that you propose? Move the cows back into Central Park?
There are
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
okey! go and explain these to your audience in your radio show! Doug and
over-population tonight under Wall Street lights...
I'm completely anti-Malthusian. I never talk about overpopulation
except to criticize Malthusians. I like big cities, too, where people
are
Rod:
I know the history. I know the economic cost. But what is the programme. What
are the concrete steps that you propose? Move the cows back into Central
Park?
You apparently didn't read the post on "Green Cuba", otherwise you wouldn't
ask such flippant questions.
There are any number of
Is this in contrast to non-trivial tautologies?
Cheers, Ken Hanly
Carrol Cox wrote:
Doug Henwood wrote:
M A Jones wrote:
But capitalism will collapse anyway.
Right. Where have I heard that one before?
Actually the prediction was made by many old guys millenia ago
before
Jim Devine wrote:
I detect irony in the word "wondrous," indicating that you don't
approve of the changes. As Dave Richardson pointed out, however,
the lower inflation rates that came out of the CPI revision is not
all bad. If St. Alan sees a smaller dragon, he's less likely to
lance the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For what it is worth, the work of the "Boskin Commission" was amazingly shoddy
on almost all counts. I don't think anyone of those on the committee really
know what the CPI is.
By the way, something like 20 or 30 economists testified before the
Congressional panel that
At 07:06 PM 6/29/00 -0400, you wrote:
Jim Devine wrote:
I detect irony in the word "wondrous," indicating that you don't approve
of the changes. As Dave Richardson pointed out, however, the lower
inflation rates that came out of the CPI revision is not all bad. If St.
Alan sees a smaller
In developed countries at least many urban features are already in the
countryside. The automobile enables rural dwellers to take advantage of
urban shopping facilities equally with urban dwellers. Rural dwellings
almost all have modern sanitiation and sewage systems albeit
self-contained in the
Louis Proyect wrote:
You and Doug approach this as if we were talking about life-style. I can
understand this. This is generally how people first react to the CM demand,
as if they were being asked to give up Starbucks or something. It is not
about this primarily. It is about addressing a
At 07:17 PM 6/29/00 -0400, you wrote:
Ok, so now we know there won't be Starbucks after the revolution. Finally
a bit of detail.
no loss! Starbucks burns its beans, producing inferior coffee.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Jim Devine wrote:
Ok, so now we know there won't be Starbucks after the revolution.
Finally a bit of detail.
no loss! Starbucks burns its beans, producing inferior coffee.
"I don't like it. It smells burnt." - Jackie Mason
Jim Devine wrote:
no loss! Starbucks burns its beans, producing inferior coffee.
http://www.junofish.com/jackie.html
A Dissent on Starbucks by Jackie Mason
Starbucks is the best example of a phony status symbol that means
nothing, but people will still pay 10x as much for because there are
Does doing away with this distinction mean locating hog barns and cattle
feed lots in the city?
More flippancy.
Louis Proyect
Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/
Doug:
Does the revo also mean there won't be modern transportation,
chemical fertilizers, mechnized plowing and reaping, etc.? Then
there's truly no way to sustain a world population of more than, say,
a billion people, maybe fewer - meaning that at least 80% of us have
to go.
You don't seem
John Bellamy Foster has been doing some very interesting research into the
question of whether Marx was an ecological thinker for some time now. There
are 3 takes on this question. Some view Marx as explicitly anti-ecological.
This is the case for social ecologists like John Clark and certain
Doug Henwood wrote:
Does the revo also mean there won't be modern transportation,
chemical fertilizers, mechnized plowing and reaping, etc.? Then
there's truly no way to sustain a world population of more than, say,
a billion people, maybe fewer - meaning that at least 80% of us have
to go.
Growth of 0% is fine, but unfoprtunately it's not happening, especially in
the US, where the population may rise to 500mn by 2050 and not stop there,
either.
Mark Jones
http://www.egroups.com/group/CrashList
- Original Message -
From: "Louis Proyect" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL
My key question was: accuracy for what purpose? I agree that for the
purpose of measuring real living standards, the Boskin revisions
lead to gross exaggeration of their rise.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Even after watching 1900 House?
Brad DeLong,
At 01:49 AM 06/30/2000 +0100, you wrote:
Yelling at people that they are atavists, apocalyptics etc, doesn't answer
any more than Jim Devine throwing queenie fits answers the questions.
so Mr. Jones is gay-bashing me? I find that insults are always the last
refuge of the fuzzy thinker. In any
At 06:03 PM 06/29/2000 -0700, you wrote:
My key question was: accuracy for what purpose? I agree that for the
purpose of measuring real living standards, the Boskin revisions lead to
gross exaggeration of their rise.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Even
Thanks, Eric Nilsson, for telling me about your excellent article in THE
REVIEW OF RADICAL POLITICAL ECONOMICS, vol. 31 no. 4 (Fall 1999). It is
quite well done, in a very clear and systematic way. It's truly Gordonian,
while if Brad ever gets to rewriting his book on the standard of living of
From: Chris Burford [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Interesting to see Patrick Bond tonight in a heavily clipped interview on
BBC 2 Newsnight about the Zimbabwe elections. Patrick was suggesting, if I
got the point correctly, that Morgan Tsvangirai was boxing Mugabe in by
offering some sort of
I'm starting to wonder about my sanity in re: the pile-up
of gross distortions of n-c theory in the past week.
This is not to say there are legions of things to criticize
in NC theory, but I have to wonder what sort of picture
people have gotten (or devised by themselves).
I'm no theoretical
But I do keep receiving messages!
This time when I finaly got connected I've got more than 100 of them. What
is wrong?
Boris
-Original Message-
From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 27 ÉÀÎÑ 2000 Ç. 22:47
Subject: [PEN-L:20749] Re: Re:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/28/00 05:09PM
Charles It is not a matter of faith. It is a simple calculation. Amount
of energy available minus amount used by humans in the course of their
history. The result if a very large positive number. We are not going to
run out of energy.
_
CB: Mark
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/28/00 05:27PM And Rod also wrote:
Oh Carrol get with the programme. You are to organize all the True
Believers and take them off to Jonestown
It has occurred to me that in speaking of political activity many of us
do not make clearly enough the distinction between
On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 18:10:45 -0500, Carrol Cox
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
So unless you really do agree with Hans Ehrbar on the need
for an elitist putsch to stop global warming, you had
better give some thought to how that mass support can be
(beginning now) marshalled
It is not my view
Several quick comments . . .
MJ:
. . . The argument that energy supply is 'infinite' derives from the
neo-classical economics concept of substitutability. . . .
I don't think this is true of neo-classical econ, namely
there is no doctrine of infinite resources that I recall
from the course in
Max,
Undoubtedly baseball was the right choice.
It was Samuelson who said something about 'the planet doesn't need
resources; resources are infinite' (can't remember the exact quote, can't be
bothered to look it up. He was talking about oil + substitutability at the
time, the idiot). Morris
You have Yeltsin here? Cool.
Mark Jones
http://www.egroups.com/group/CrashList
- Original Message -
From: "GBK" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 1:45 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:20935] Re: Re: Re: energy crises
But I do keep receiving messages!
This time
The word/concept entropy is often used by the environmental movement but
seldom understood.
In physics it is used as measurement of the degradation or dispersement
of energy in a closed system. In every day speech it usually refers to
thermal energy, and measures the dissipation of energy that
Brad De Long wrote:
During WW II in the war in the Pacific, one of the most horrendous battles
was fought over the island of Tarawa. Death in great numbers came to both
sides. Tarawa is now beneath the Pacific ocean, a casualty of global warming.
Gene Coyle
30,000 people
I think that those messages came before the changes were made. I hope that we
are ok now.
GBK wrote:
But I do keep receiving messages!
This time when I finaly got connected I've got more than 100 of them. What
is wrong?
Boris
-Original Message-
From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL
Max. There s no doctrine of infinite resources for any specific
resource, but since substitutes always exist there is an implict
doctrine.
Max Sawicky wrote:
I don't think this is true of neo-classical econ, namely
there is no doctrine of infinite resources that I recall
from the course in
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