I think these things go in cycles. Back when the
US faced superpower competition from the USSR, both
sides had to try to look good internationally,
causing a temporary upward harmonization.
JD
I've been waiting for years to hear Jim Devine agree with me that the Soviet
Union was a Good
At 04:44 PM 11/05/2002 +, you wrote:
I've been waiting for years to hear Jim Devine agree with me
that the Soviet
Union was a Good Thing. At last! At last! The next step in his
intellectual
evolution would be to acknowledge the indispensable role of Stalin in
defending the existence
Title: harmonization
er,
how did India gain since 1991? They weaponised their nukes? Built the Narmada
Dam? What?
Mark
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Devine, JamesSent: 05 November 2002
18:05To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject:
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-pen-l;galaxy.csuchico.edu]On Behalf Of Doug Henwood
Sent: 05 November 2002 21:40
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:31882] Re: RE: Re: dismantling due process
Some Israelis say that they actually take more care
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-pen-l;galaxy.csuchico.edu]On Behalf Of Michael Perelman
Sent: 05 November 2002 22:06
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:31885] Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: dismantling due process
Mark, I agree with Doug here. I understand that
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-pen-l;galaxy.csuchico.edu]On Behalf Of Doug Henwood
Sent: 05 November 2002 22:44
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:31890] Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: dismantling due process
Of course not, you prick. Though I'm not the least
Joanna wrote:
The short answer is that during WWII the soviet people fought against a
fascism whose explicit aim was their enslavement; in 1989, they were sold
out by Stalinist bureaucrats and black marketeers.
The shorter answer is that if Stalin had not sabotaged the revolutionary
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-pen-l;galaxy.csuchico.edu]On Behalf Of joanna bujes
Sent: 06 November 2002 00:49
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I grew up reading Russian authors writing about this same
experience;
however, it was possible for me to distinguish
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-pen-l;galaxy.csuchico.edu]On Behalf Of Michael Perelman
Sent: 06 November 2002 03:29
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:31913] Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re:
dismantling due process
My God. Every post I have
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-pen-l;galaxy.csuchico.edu]On Behalf Of Sabri Oncu
Sent: 06 November 2002 06:34
To: PEN-L
Subject: [PEN-L:31920] Re: dismantling due process
I object to this kind of rationality and hence my objection to
Doug's calling Lou
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-pen-l;galaxy.csuchico.edu]On Behalf Of Charles Jannuzi
Sent: 04 November 2002 14:01
In Japan it is caused, it seems to me, by a
chronically overvalued yen--against the US dollar
( a de facto world currency for every
It's part of the new race to the
bottom, the downward harmonization of moral standards.
Jim
Don't forget that it was Churchill who first proposed gassing and bombing
Iraq in 1919. The idea that there was ever an upward harmonisation is surely
illusion.
Mark
At 03-11-02 12:27, you wrote:
Seriously, do you think an investment bankers's
analyst is ever going to be trustworthy?
They survey the world only as takeover
opportunities for their clients and for
themselves. I'll look at the article again and go
through it piece by piece (I've done this for
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-pen-l;galaxy.csuchico.edu]On Behalf Of Charles Jannuzi
Sent: 03 November 2002 13:55
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:31794] Re: Roach on Asia
You have to see it first as the tendentious
propaganda that it is.
no
At 03-11-02 15:22, you wrote:
Because Asia is not shot.
There is a major and chronic deflationary crisis in Japan. Asia may not be
shot, but this crisis is very real, is it not?
Mark
At 03-11-02 19:45, you wrote:
There seems to be a consensus among US bears of a nationalist bent to say,
in effect, yeah our country's a mess but the rest of the planet is in even
worse shape so keep that money comin' to our shores.
Ian
Is this also an argument in favour of ignoring
At 03/11/2002 20:11, you wrote:
Right, 'but' the other shoe that keeps the deflation from becoming a big
black hole is US imports from the region and the $1billion + a day comin' in
as well. If the rate of return for Asian investors is higher in the US than
in their own region, why increase
Roach writes for Morgan Stanley
he's a famous bear. So what did he get wrong about Asia?
Mark
Charles Jannuzi wrote:
And I forgot to say: Kuwaiti interests own 10% of
BP.
Who owns Kuwait?
Mark
Chris Burford wrote:
Russian troops advancing into Northern Iraq in a preventative peace
making initiative. Iraq might get divided up into zones of
occupation like
Germany did, but hopefully US and Russian troops would not fire at each
other in ill will.)
Russian troops in Iraq?
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-pen-l;galaxy.csuchico.edu]On Behalf Of Chris Burford
Sent: 30 October 2002 08:24
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:31680] Now for the real fight over Iraqi oil
From today's Guardian, no lightweight article:-
BP
Chris Burford
their false consciousness
obstructs their
ability to see that this should be routine, because they dare not
recognise the marxian law of value]
Well of course they rcognise the Marxian law of value, Chris. Otherwise they
wouldn't stay in business. They just don't draw the same
Chris Burford wrote:
Through contradictions we are equilibrating towards a framework of
world-governance
Chris,
you might as well say that thru contradictions we are equilibrating towards
world war 3, with just as much assurance about the outcome. And that's the
problem: when there are such
Michael quoth:
global governance - Iraq, France, USA
actually this is the ideal triumvirate to rule the world: Islamic culture
and oil, French culture and olive oil, and guns. Yeah.
Mark
Brian M Czech wrote:
Just out of curiosity, why is there so little discussion of the
ecological economics movement on this list? My memory isnt the
greatest, but I dont recall ever hearing any mention of Herman Daly,
Robert Costanza, Richard Norgaard, the International Society for
Michael Hoover wrote:
i'll try to avoid making an analogy here for reasons that should
be obvious... i can't help but recall fanon's assertion that
violence is turned inward in colonial society; people kill each
other rather than their subjugators...
Yes, as Marx used to say, it's the
Capitalism to Destroy Human Habitat?
October 2002
By Carlos Petroni
With Abel Mouton, Caty Powell, Gene Pepi and Jesse Powell
Illustrations by Gaby Felten
The final struggle over the survival of planet Earth, as the habitat for
life, is fast approaching.
The main obstacle to saving the
ravi wrote:
i hope doug does not find me in the list of those he finds unreasonable.
whether it be my general responses to his posts, or to the particular
issue of marc cooper (and i agree that we should avoid discussing
personalities), i have tried to be honest and friendly. if that
[some people think that even to mention energy crises is just 'fatalism' but
that's not what the Bush regime thinks. They know the oil is running out,
and this is key to everything they say and do. Mark]
Oil has always been top of Bush's foreign-policy agenda
October 7 2002
The White House
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Keaney
Sent: 07 October 2002 09:45
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [A-List] US imperialism: Iraq and oil
Sunday Herald - 06 October 2002
Official: US oil at the heart of Iraq crisis
By Neil Mackay
TITLE: MAIN REMARKS AT A ROUND TABLE ON IRAQ, GEORGIA, BUSH
DOCTRINE AND RUSSIAN-AMERICAN RELATIONS
[UL. MOSFILMOVSKAYA, 40, 15:10, OCTOBER 2, 2002]
SOURCE: FEDERAL NEWS SERVICE (http://www.fednews.ru/)
[Alexei] Pushkov: Let us start our Round Table meeting. Let me begin
I can't remember who it was who said of the Holy Roman Empire that it was
neither holy, Roman, nor an empire. Macaulay?
Mark
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Chris Burford
Sent: 04 October 2002 07:45
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
Ian wrote:
Not that I advocate a technocracy; just that there are still
a lot of very smart people on our planet who reject fatalism
in all its forms.
Fatalism has nothing whatever to do with the Global Hubbert eak. Accusing
people of fatalism who accept the geological evidence
Ian wrote:
Not that I advocate a technocracy; just that there are still
a lot of very smart people on our planet who reject fatalism
in all its forms.
Fatalism has nothing whatever to do with the Global Hubbert Peak. Accusing
people of fatalism who accept the geological evidence
oil, for whatever reason. What amazes me about is the
absolute cynicism, the in-your-face thievery and imperial thuggery of this
kind of talk. I suppose it is born of secret desperation. Without Iraqi oil
America is doomed.
Mark Jones]
Subject: S.F. Chronicle article: Oil firms wait as Iraq
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of joanna bujes
Sent: 30 September 2002 20:48
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:30731] Re: oilism redux
.As for doomed...not
America, just
the folks that currently run things.
Not so,
Ian Murray wrote
.Here's contact
info for the Guardian. I'm pretty sure the contact info for the
NYT and Wash
Post are in the archives.
How to contact Guardian Unlimited
Actually the best way to contact them is to eat your lunch in the
Progressive Working Class Chop House (sic) which
At 23/09/2002 05:55, Melvin wrote:
Classless concepts will not help the new communist class. Nor will
wholesale condemnation of the American peoples strengthened the antiwar
bourgeois democratic current alive and well in America.
You are right and my short way of putting it was wrong. There
Dear Pen-lers,
The Left Book Club by the A-list officially launches with the following
titles courtesy of Zed Books. As was recently discussed, Zed operates a
differential pricing policy enabling purchasers from the South to acquire
books at more affordable rates. These are indicated below:
At 23/09/2002 19:48, you wrote:
How do you subscribe to the A list?
Joanna
The A-List archives are at
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/a-list/
also subscription info.
Mark
At 22/09/2002 14:53, you wrote:
I expect we'll soon see all conscientious libertarians and consistent social
Darwinists rise up in revulsion against this Bush doctrine.
Why so? 100 hundred years after Spencer, angry Americans are more anxious
to bash people of different hue, colour, etc,
Pen-l'ers
When Mark Jones set up the A-list a year ago it was with the intention
that a forum be provided where participants could analyse developments
in the global political economy from an anti-imperialist perspective in
a suitably conducive environment. Mark passed the reins to me earlier
So much piffle and hot air is talked about 'renewables', the 'hydrogen
economy'. windmills, geothermals, photovoltaics, compressed air machines
and I know not what, in the context of declining oil and of avoiding C02
greenhouse gas emissions.
Now we have a situation where BP has announced
The real goal is the seizure of Saudi oil
Iraq is no threat. Bush wants war to keep US control of the region
Mo Mowlam
Thursday September 5, 2002
The Guardian
I keep listening to the words coming from the Bush administration about
Iraq and I become increasingly alarmed. There seems to be such
book. Especially good factually (but an archive search of marxmail or the
A-List will bring up a lot better and more recent stuff, for free. Where do
Zed get off charging $25 for a slim paperback?)
Mark Jones
[forwarded from the A-List, by Stan Goff.
Mark Jones]
Pat Bond's article, to which this responds, is pasted in below.
I feel compelled to weigh in here, and invite criticism, given that I
haven't had time to sit down and work the following reflections out in a
very rigorous way. These are very
At 25/08/2002 12:11, you wrote:
Is this very interesting article, on the A-List (founded by Mark Jones), a
sign of a change towards a more multipolar world, or is it just a reaction
to the dubious nature of the dollar as a store of international value, at
present. Despite all the reservations
At 25/08/2002 16:13, Melvin P. wrote:
There is a glut of oil in the world.
Er, well.
Even BP don't quite agree. They, like Shell, think we are at the end of the
oil age. Only the satanic hordes at Exxon think otherwise for some reason.
BP are now supporters of the 'hydrogen economy' on the
I'd like to thank Max for his forbearance and good manners.
Thank you, Max.
Mark
At 13/08/2002 16:16, Max wrote:
I am delighted to announce that Mark Jones, after some
delay due to circumstances beyond his control, is
redeeming his debt to me for a case of lagavullin.
It may be recalled
I bet Max Sawicky that the DJIA would fall to 3,000. It did not. This bet
was akin to the famous bet made between Julian Simon and Paul Ehrlich about
whether the Club of Rome's central predictions about eco-doom were wrong or
right. Simon (the eco-optimist) won his bet. Ehrlich et al had to
At 26/07/2002 17:42, Michael wrote:
Some time ago, Mark Jones, who has not returned made a bet with Max
Actually I have returned, but I have not yet written to Max detailing my
terms, which however I plan to.
Wall St is now worth about $11 trn instead of the $20 trn it was worth two
years
for exterminism, for
US imperialism in its newest and most lethal guise.
Mark Jones
At 23/11/2001 07:18, you wrote:
http://www.thenation.com
FEATURE STORY | Special Report
Terrorism and Globalization
by DOUG HENWOOD
test ignore
societies of total surveillance and lockdown, for intensified
racism and social intolerance. This is the era of Exterminism, the highest
stage of imperialism. It is also the age of Panopticon. Here too,
Afghanistan is a foretaste of the future.
Mark Jones
At 25/09/2001 05:52, Christian wrote:
Last week, you said that the market price was not indicative of the coming
crisis of oil production, because it's not functioning like a normal price
should. Now, you're saying that if it moves in the direction you think it
should, then the market price
At 25/09/2001 00:10, Chris wrote:
The article says
The Saudi royal family has long been concerned about the
rise of Islamic radicalism within its own kingdom.
This isn't the first time King Fahd has been sent to Geneva for health
reasons, is it? Didn't he also have a diplomatic illness
At 24/09/2001 01:09, you wrote:
Mark Jones wrote:
As for bad economy, is there such a thing as a good capitalist economy?
No. I forgot my catechism. Sorry, Rev. Jones.
Doug
You still didn't let us know what *you* think we should do about falling
markets. Maybe the answer will be in your
At 24/09/2001 01:56, Michael Perelman wrote:
Has any good come from the fall of the USSR?
--
You don't have to buy into the worse the better thesis to see that the
fall of the USSR was inevitable (unbearably unpleasant as it may have been
for those of us with personal connections there
At 24/09/2001 20:55, Doug wrote:
And now I'll really go quiet.
Are you here or not here? It's very unclear.
Mark
At 21/09/2001 17:45, Doug Henwood wrote:
Tom Walker wrote:
The patriotic rally following Bush's speech doesn't appear to be
materializing. European markets slid 7%. NASDAQ gapped down nearly 6% at the
opening. SP down 4%. Investors seem to be shouting (with their money),
Hell no, we won't go!
FT: An uneasy truce
Pressure from Washington and Europe has forced Yassir Arafat and Ariel
Sharon into a ceasefire. Whether the calm lasts may depend on factors
outside their control, writes Ralph Atkins
Published: September 19 2001 20:21 | Last Updated: September 19 2001 20:32
In the hours
At 18/09/2001 05:14, Tom wrote:
Having just read Mark's post, I am forwarding a response I sent just a few
minutes earlier to someone on another list who was worried about conspiracy.
Macdonald Stainsby forwarded Mark Jones:
I have reached the conclusion that
even Saudi oil production
At 18/09/2001 13:38, you wrote:
It's all about oil ... again
If global conflict and ecological disaster are to be avoided, the west
must end its reliance on oil, writes Mark Lynas
I'm glad Michael sent this example of wishful thinking, it is an
illustration of the unreality assailing us on all
At 18/09/2001 19:12, Jim Devine wrote:
Again, though there are clear environmental limits (including those of
water supply) to capitalism, we should remember that energy prices are
actually pretty low these days by historical standards.
My remarks on military keynesianism arose from a thread
At 18/09/2001 04:41, Max wrote:
As a close observer of the U.S. fiscal policy
debates, I'd like to chime in that military
spending is certainly in the cards, but no
support for deficit spending is anywhere in
sight. Don't forget that Bush's $40B comes
out of a residual surplus of $150B, though
Doug Henwood wrote:
And in late July, I heard an Australian aborigine singing this song at an
aboriginal arts center in Adelaide. Speaking of the reach of American pop
culture
Did the aborigine know you were there?
Mark
At 26/08/01 23:13, Michael wrote:
Rakesh Bhandari wrote:
ah what's a reasonable position for a left keynesian on trade? let's
say the
tax cut suffers leakage and bush and greenspan and the fucking bond
traders (as
clinton described them) are not willing to allow deficits the size of
.
This Bofors business is as fishy as hell, and the real truth remains to be
uncovered IMO.
Where is the Eye getting its leads from, BTW?
Interesting.
Mark Jones
At 20/08/2001 12:24, Michael Keaney wrote:
Penners
Way back on 25 May, Mark Jones wrote:
Norman Tebbit seems to think, along with Margaret Thatcher, that
political
salvation for the Tories lies in strengthening the 'Special
Relationship',
and prioritising Britain's US connection
get investment into building a pipeline from
Alaskan stranded gas fields. Without this investment, and almost certainly
even with this, any serious uptick will have the US economy banging its
head on the energy ceiling again.
Mark Jones
. What
is beginning to happen now is an *absolute* as well as relative decline in
energy consumption. That is completely unprecedented in the history of US
capitalism. How will accumulation continue? Where will the growth come
from, the New Economy? Don't think so.
Mark Jones
test ignore
POWER PLANTS LIKE THOSE IN UPSTATE (SOUTH CAROLINA) WILL BURN
INCREASINGLY SCARCE FUEL
BY BRAD FOSS
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
DEW, Texas -- In the dusty praire midway between Dallas and Houston,
roughnecks hired by Anadarko Petroleum Corp. work day and night to drill
12,000 foot-deep holes no wider
Helium is a really serious issue which lightminded respondents don't get. A
few years back I was at the Druzhba pipeline-head in Orenburg, southern
Urals, where an amazing quantity of helium was vented into the air as an
unusable byproduct of natgas, much to the embarrassment of the Russian
At 8/12/2001 05:16 PM, Stephen E Philion wrote:
Mark wrote:
[We should waste less time in pointless attacks on Vandana Shiva and more
on analysing ag-biz. Mark]
Mark, are there people on this list who are engaging in pointless attacks
on Shiva Or is this just a general assertion w/ no apparent
of use of
ozone-eating CFC's to controls on dioxins, DDT, PCBs, to controls on
infectious disease vectors, to greenhouse gas emissions (Kyoto is only the
latest) and much else besides. This is not regional but international treaty
and covenantal law.
Mark Jones
[Michael's message may be subliminal but it is important. Mark]
Marx, Devalorization, and the Theory of Value
Michael Perelman
Marx, Devalorization, and the Theory of Value
Introduction
I am offering yet another reinterpretation of Marx's value theory. Although
this value theory does not
.
The truth is that we don't really know anything, about GCHQ, Echelon or
anything else. We are victims of massive disinformation and secrecy on all
sides. What we do have is the speculations of people like Mary Kaldor.
Mark Jones
than earlier capitalist
crises.
Mark Jones]
Several questions. Do K-waves actually exist? If they do as
observable phenomena, can they be really thought of as underlying
mechanisms that cause changes within capitalism therefore useful
for an attempt at explanation? Why do you think
Doyle Saylor:
Greetings Economists,
Yes I agree with if resources need to be redistributed to sustain
California. It would be a tremendous disaster to the people
involved to not
support them.
I don't think this (redistribution to Californians) is quite what Nathan
has in mind, is
Chris Burford wrote:
I shall take silence as consent.
Oh, come on Chris. There are *laws* against that kind of reasoning.
Mark
Stephen E Philion:
Actually, my reading of Nathan's remarks are that he is countering your
arguments, not Doug's.
Of course he is, Stephen: that's my point.
Mark
the underlying
methodology to judge. As they say, I'm sceptical, but...
Mark Jones
carrying capacity.xls
rates are becoming like the porverbial fall
off a cliff. All this means that the frenzy of investment won't solve the
underlying problem. So the only way sortages can be relieved is by a
recession, conservation, and massive no nuclear investment, or all 3.
Mark Jones
kind of crude and ugly things
you are up to, but I don't want to abuse the hospitality of this list. I
*strongly* urge Michael Perelman to stop Lear's baiting, pronto.
Mark Jones
being equal -- and this just to
maintain the present rate of ecological decline (Rees Wackernagel, 1994).
http://dieoff.com/page110.htm
Mark Jones
Tim Radford, science editor
Thursday June 28, 2001
The Guardian
Scientists have found out how plants open and close their stomata - the tiny
pores through which they breathe. The discovery could open the way for
genetically engineered crops which could survive drought.
The biological Morse code
[but if the massive new investment which the energy system needs is aborted
by a recession, then any future upturn will be even more constrained,
because the global energy infrastructure is old and worn out, and that's
been the problem since the 1970s; so what is happening is the progressive
Economy turned out to be?
Mark Jones
[Eugene Coyle wondered whether plans for new power plant capacity will come
to fruition. Mark]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 28 June 2001 21:35
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [energyresources] That incredible 180,000 MW new capacity:
Update
Stephen E Philion
Perhaps it would be better if Mark told us where he gets the idea that
Doug embraces such ideology? Or is it imagined that Doug does so?
Steve
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Doug Henwood wrote:
Mark Jones wrote:
The USA is
inefficient.
That's not what Doug Henwood
going
to take some time to work through it. [pen-l13799]
Mark Jones
Doug Henwood
What happened? Has Armageddon been rescheduled?
Nah, it's just a short-term fluctuation.
So Krugman counts as an energy expert for you?
Mark Jones
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
You've already answered your question yourself. What's missing is
capitalists compelled to M-C-M'.
This explains nothing in history. It's simply metaphysics.
Mark Jones
against relative decline, like the USA
in Nixon's era. The gold standard is a mechanism for pumping value out of
colonies or subordinated states. It's a mechanism for seignorage and it
permits the hegmon to provide credit for its national capital.
Mark Jones
analysis of interest rates (down by 25 basis
points, you have just informed LBO-talk), to stock market changes, consumer
prices inflation, pensions, social security, and the rest?
Mark Jones
such as
waterlogging, salinization, and depletion and pollution of water supplies.
Concern is mounting about the sustainability of irrigated agriculture.
from:
http://www.ussl.ars.usda.gov/salinity.htm
Mark Jones
know either.
Mark Jones
,
it doesn't seem, not automatically. Mat
This is all very helpful and thank you so much.
Mark Jones
conversion on the New Economy.
Seems like a different era, hey?
-
Subject: Marx on surplus population
Sender: Mark Jones
Date: 17.05.98
Recipient: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
The limits and scarcities that marxists should be primarily concerned
about
are artificial
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