[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday, February 05, 2001 5:33 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:7776] Re: Re: Re: Korean news
I think back to 1982, when the ideologues in the Reagan administration were
willing to sit on their hands as Mexico threatened default. As it
happened,
Paul
I think back to 1982, when the ideologues in the Reagan administration were
willing to sit on their hands as Mexico threatened default. As it happened,
Paul Volcker was willing and able to seize the reins, and the world financial
system was pulled back from the brink of collapse. (The
Original Message-
From: Michael Pugliese [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L:7640] Korean news
George Becker, president of the Steelworkers Union, in a William Greider
article in the Jan 29th. Nation.
&q
L:7710] Re: Korean news
http://www.inthesetimes.com/web2506/baker2506a.html
By Dean Baker
Treasury Secretary-nominee Paul O'Neill can perhaps best be viewed as a
throwback to the old-fashioned breed of "enlightened industrialists" who
occupied the halls of power back in the '50
et the marketplace decide. Except, when financial firms got in
trouble,
they went to the rescue."
-Original Message-
From: Keaney Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:29 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:7640] Korean news
Howdy Pen
Howdy Penners,
If you go back a couple of years to when the lovely Henry K. was touting the
latest instalment of his memoirs, there was an extensive excerpt published
in "Foreign Affairs" in which Dr Death tried to have it both ways (as
usual). But in acknowledging the differences that arose
2) Did not George Kennan in his original anonymous
article on containment raise the possibility of an eventual
evolution of the Soviet system as a response?
IIRC, yes. And that was one reason that the policy was originally
supposed to be one of "containment" and not of "confrontation."
The funny
thing is that the USSR did indeed surpass the US
in all of those, but
Barkley Rosser
-Original Message-
From: Brad DeLong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thursday, February 01, 2001 10:59 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:7647] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Korean news
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 7:11 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:7564] Re: Re: Re: Korean news
I see an equivalence here up until the 1980s. Khrushchev and his
people were absolutely certain that they were the wave of the future,
and the road
y Rosser
-Original Message-
From: Justin Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:55 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:7569] Re: Re: Re: Re: Korean news
Brad, I was a sort of Sovietologist when there was such a thing, and my
speciality in that area wa
tainment raise the possibility of an eventual
evolution of the Soviet system as a response?
Barkley Rosser
-Original Message-
From: Justin Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:55 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:7569] Re: Re: Re: Re: Kor
Brad, there is an important discussion here, but I shan't participate in it
if you can't keep it clean and depersonalized. I owe you an apology for not
doing likewise myself, and it is offered here. Now, let's get down to
business.
I should like to see evidence that the CIA, etc. expected tow
Indeed, I don't think that in the 60s there was thinking about
"winning" the cold war in the dramatic sense that it was won in the
1990s. "Containment" was more the idea...
My grandfather Earl DeLong was one of Helms's spearcarriers in the
1950s. He says--and Helms says--that containment
I see an equivalence here up until the 1980s. Khrushchev and his
people were absolutely certain that they were the wave of the future,
and the road to utopia. For the first half of the Brezhnev era I
think that the same was true, at least as far as Soviet foreign
policy was concerned. The Soviet
Brad, I was a sort of Sovietologist when there was such a thing, and my
speciality in that area was Soviet and US foreign policy, the Cold War.
Which doesn't make me right, but I have looked into this stuff, including
reading endless reams of CIA and DoD assessments, God help me.
Now you are
Wrong again, Brad. Brezhnev was not about to try to face down the US
in a nuclear confrontation like the Cuban Missile Crisis, which had
led to Khrushchev being iced (by B himseld and some pals); he was
basically asking LBJ's permission. Which LBJ, being happily involved
in Vietnam, was
Some time ago, the Monthly Review published a list of the nuclear threats
that the United States made. I sure hope that this doesn't degenerate
into one of those threads about how bad the Communists are.
If those who do not remember history are condemned to repeat it, what
can be said of those
At 07:00 AM 01/29/2001 -0800, you wrote:
That Stalin's Russia, Mao's China, Pol Pot's Cambodia, and Kim Il Sung's
Korea were far indeed from Utopia is one of the principal features of
twentieth-century history, after all...
so they should be nuked? that seems a Pol Pot-type solution, which may
Brad, I have thought more about this stuff than you ever will, and know more
about it that you can imagine. Tito was not "allowed" to develop by the US
in 1948; the Yugosolavs were supposed to be handed over to Stalin under the
terms of Yalta, but made clear that they would not go,a nd that
Brad wrote:
That Stalin's Russia, Mao's China, Pol Pot's Cambodia, and Kim Il Sung's
Korea were far indeed from Utopia is one of the principal features of
twentieth-century history, after all...
so they should be nuked? that seems a Pol Pot-type solution, which may
explain why the US
Just as I feared! Here we are back in trying to debate the same old stuff with
the same old tone. In an earlier note, Brad wrote something like, think
before you post. We don't need to sort of dialogue here.
Brad DeLong wrote:
Some time ago, the Monthly Review published a list of the nuclear
Again, the same sorts of accusations about who has done the most/best thinking.
Cheryl Payer, in her book on the World Bank, does a good job of the showing that
the U.S. thought that the success of Yugoslavia would undermine Stalin, and so
it attempted to promote worker self-management in
Just as I feared! Here we are back in trying to debate the same old stuff with
the same old tone. In an earlier note, Brad wrote something like, think
before you post. We don't need to sort of dialogue here.
Brad DeLong wrote:
Some time ago, the Monthly Review published a list of the
At 07:00 AM 01/29/2001 -0800, you wrote:
That Stalin's Russia, Mao's China, Pol Pot's Cambodia, and Kim Il
Sung's Korea were far indeed from Utopia is one of the principal
features of twentieth-century history, after all...
so they should be nuked? that seems a Pol Pot-type solution, which
Again, the same sorts of accusations about who has done the
most/best thinking.
Cheryl Payer, in her book on the World Bank, does a good job of the
showing that
the U.S. thought that the success of Yugoslavia would undermine Stalin, and so
it attempted to promote worker self-management in
At 10:26 AM 1/29/01 -0800, you wrote:
At 07:00 AM 01/29/2001 -0800, you wrote:
That Stalin's Russia, Mao's China, Pol Pot's Cambodia, and Kim Il Sung's
Korea were far indeed from Utopia is one of the principal features of
twentieth-century history, after all...
so they should be nuked? that
In a generic sense, everyone needs to think before the post, but it is
flaming to accuse someone of posting without thinking.
On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:43:04AM -0800, Brad DeLong wrote:
Again, the same sorts of accusations about who has done the
most/best thinking.
Cheryl Payer, in her book
Sure, or anyway, maybe, but thsi was after Tito had made it clear that he
was not going to go quietly into that good night, as originally agreed by
Staklin and Churchill. --jks
Again, the same sorts of accusations about who has done the most/best
thinking.
Cheryl Payer, in her book on the
Brad, you need to learn to read. Apparently being a big shot at Berkeley
doesn't guarantee that you can can. I never said what you attribute to me. I
didn't comment on the wisdom or lack of of LBJ's decision. I did say that
that the evidence Brad himself cited shwos is that Brezhnev asked the
You need to read. No, you need to think. We can do better than that.
On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 12:14:28AM -, Justin Schwartz wrote:
Brad, you need to learn to read. Apparently being a big shot at Berkeley
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA
OK, let's focus on the substantive issues. Which in this case are? Actually,
it isn't clear, beyond Brad's substext that everything in US nuclear and
foreign policy during the cold war was wise and just and necessary to
contain communism--and my subtext that this is false, and that the US is a
e-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Perelman
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 4:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:7488] Re: Korean news
You need to read. No, you need to think. We can do better than that.
On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 12:14:28AM -0
Brad, you need to learn to read. Apparently being a big shot at
Berkeley doesn't guarantee that you can can. I never said what you
attribute to me. I didn't comment on the wisdom or lack of of LBJ's
decision. I did say that that the evidence Brad himself cited shows
is that Brezhnev asked the
Brad, you have to stop arguing by insult!!! The whole thread is
peripheral to this list.
I wish that you would contribute more about the economy and less about
your anticommunism.
On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:36:18PM -0800, Brad DeLong wrote:
Brad, you need to learn to read. Apparently being a
Sunday, January 28, 2001 | Los Angeles TIMES
Cold War-Era Files Reveal U.S. Fears of S. Korean Attack on North
Asia: Washington sought to avoid being drawn into conflict in 1968.
Southern leader Park Chung Hee's erratic behavior raised concerns, papers
show.
By JIM MANN, Times Staff Writer
Sunday, January 28, 2001 | Los Angeles TIMES
Cold War-Era Files Reveal U.S. Fears of S. Korean Attack on North
Asia: Washington sought to avoid being drawn into conflict in 1968.
Southern leader Park Chung Hee's erratic behavior raised concerns,
papers show.
By JIM MANN, Times Staff Writer
8, 2001 2:06 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:7410] Re: Korean news
Sunday, January 28, 2001 | Los Angeles TIMES
Cold War-Era Files Reveal U.S. Fears of S. Korean Attack on North
Asia: Washington sought to avoid being drawn into conflict in 1968.
Southern leader Park Chung Hee's erratic behavior raised co
I wrote:
I've always thought that the South was more likely to attack the North
(with full military force) than vice-versa, since the South had a more
supportive ally (the US). But of course the US wanted to make sure that
its client didn't pull this one.
Brad writes:
There's something
At 02:34 PM 01/28/2001 -0800, you wrote:
Good illustration of the E.P. Thompson view that the Cold War was a
mechanism used by each systems political ruling class to maintain domination
over their respective populations.
but both sides meddled in the periphery of the other, as when the US
Jim Devineand then emphasized "Juce" (sp?) or self-reliance...
Juche http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/1461/kimilsungism.htm
Michael Pugliese
y, January 28, 2001 3:48 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:7416] Re: Re: Re: Korean news
At 02:34 PM 01/28/2001 -0800, you wrote:
Good illustration of the E.P. Thompson view that the Cold War was a
mechanism used by each systems political ruling class to maintain
domination
over their respective populations.
Reminds me of the details in the memoir of Zdenek Mlynar, "Nightfrost in
Prague."
http://www.hfni.gsehd.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/CWIHP/BULLETINS/b2a4.htm
Mlynar was on the CC of the Czech Communist Party in '68 (and a former
roomate of Gorbachev's in the 50's) and went to Moscow with Dubcek and other
22] Re: Re: Re: Korean news
Reminds me of the details in the memoir of Zdenek Mlynar, "Nightfrost in
Prague."
http://www.hfni.gsehd.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/CWIHP/BULLETINS/b2a4.htm
Mlynar was on the CC of the Czech Communist Party in '68 (and a former
roomate of Gorbachev's in the 50's
Brad wrote:
No. Good illustration of the view that LBJ was not a nut eager to risk
World War III...
query: does anyone have the list of the number of times the US threatened
to use the atomic or hydrogen bomb since Hiroshima/Nagasaki? I know
Eisenhower threatened to use it in Korea and at
Some time ago, the Monthly Review published a list of the nuclear threats
that the United States made. I sure hope that this doesn't degenerate
into one of those threads about how bad the Communists are.
On Sun, Jan 28, 2001 at 08:27:59PM -0800, Jim Devine wrote:
query: does anyone have the
Wrong again, Brad. Brezhnev was not about to try to face down the US in a
nuclear confrontation like the Cuban Missile Crisis, which had led to
Khrushchev being iced (by B himseld and some pals); he was basically asking
LBJ's permission. Which LBJ, being happily involved in Vietnam, was
At 04:25 PM 01/28/2001 -0800, you wrote:
How does the PRC helping that thug, Savimbi, fit into the grand
picture?
I don't remember the details, but China's support for Savimbi (like its
relatively benevolent attitude toward Pinochet) was part of its "the enemy
of our enemy (the USSR) is our
This is a complicated issue. When I was working on this a lot during the
1980s, I accumulated a list of 30 serious nuclear threats between 1946 and
1981:
1. March 46, a 48 hr ultimatum for the USSR to leave Iran
2. Nov. 46, when a US aircraft was shot down in Yugoslavia
3.Feb 47, duruing the
-
From: Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sunday, January 28, 2001 8:29 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:7425] Re: Re: Re: Re: Korean news
Brad wrote:
No. Good illustration of the view that LBJ was not a nut eager to risk
World War III...
query: does anyone hav
49 matches
Mail list logo
