First I would like to thank those in OZ for
providing sharper perspectives and analyses
for all of us. I have long supported an end to
military aid by the US to Indonesia and have supported independence for
East Timor. But I must say that I am
watching these recent developments very
Craven, Jim wrote:
From "Spirit and Reason: The Vine Deloria, Jr. Reader", Fulcrum Publishing,
Golden CO, 1999
"...In 1920 George Sibley, the Indian agent for the Osages, a tribe in the
Missouri region of the country, tried to convince Big Soldier, one of the
more influencial chiefs, of
At 11:04 14/09/99 +0530, you wrote:
Rod Hay wrote:
Globalisation is a fact that lefties have to deal with. It is futile to
oppose it. Chris is pointing in the right direction but he is point at the
wrong path. Capitalism may have some room for progressive action. There are
still feudal
At 22:31 13/09/99 +, Patrick Bond wrote:
... Brown, a declared advocate of the
reform of international finances, on a key IMF committee.
That lackey of the City? Keep him OUT of reforming, please, Chris!
Really, this is an elementary responsibility of UK comrades.
That really is
Call your rep and ask them to press the State Department to say what they are doing to
win Allan's release and guarantee his safety.
U.S. Journalist Detained in E.Timor
Tuesday, September 14, 1999; 6:16 a.m. EDT
JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP) -- A U.S. journalist who has long accused Indonesia
of
Charles Brown wrote:
But doesn't the central committee of the dictatorship of the
bourgeoisie sit above both the IMF and its member governments,
really , anyway ?
"Who" is the IMF ?
"The IMF is a toy of the United States to pursue its economic policy
offshore." - MIT econ prof Rudi Dornbusch
Nairn was on KPFA last night, calling from the police station. He seemed calm and
said that he faced no particular danger. Still, he
showed incredible courage sneaking in to Indonesia and eluding the militia for so
long, while just about everybody else left.
Someone with his talent could
Brad De Long wrote:
Imports from non-industrial-core countries equal to 3% of GDP--most
of which have potential domestic substitute producers who are not
*that* much more costly...
Are you sure of what you just wrote? With far reaching mechanization, I
suspect that we would not loose too
These remind me of a story my uncle Irvin Chrisjohn used to tell about the
first Iroquois to encounter an European. The European pulled out an axe
and chopped down a good-sized tree in a few minutes. The Iroquois was duly
impressed, since the felling was accomplished much more quickly than
Imports from non-industrial-core countries equal to 3% of GDP--most
of which have potential domestic substitute producers who are not
*that* much more costly...
Brad DeLong
The low figure in part results from artificially low wages paid to Third
World workers + low prices paid to Third World
At 10:28 AM 9/14/99 -0700, Jim Devine wrote:
According to the US ECONOMIC REPORT OF THE PRESIDENT, 1999, Table B-105,
total imports from non-Industrial countries in the first 3 quarters of 1998
(at an annual rate) equaled 414.9 billion US$, which is more than 45
percent of total US imports.
Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/14/99 02:53PM
Charles Brown wrote:
Wasn't Lenin's idea in _Imperialism_ that around 1900 there was a
shift from a predominance of export of goods from the core
imperialist countries (in exchange for raw materials) to a
predominance of export of capital ?
Because of my web site, I often get questions from students. I answer them
if I can, but this one has me stumped. ;-)
"I've got an essay on "what agency costs are you prepared to bear in your
business ?" I'm not sure I'm entirely aligned with Friedman and am
interested in something a bit
Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/14/99 03:25PM
Charles Brown wrote:
Do you have a way of calculating the profits made by imperialism
from its main investment targets ? Why else would Ford and GM, etc,
move plants to Mexico and Brazil, etc., except a much higher rate of
profit ?
Yes, of
And that small minority elite who superprofit from direct foreign investment are the
bourgeois dictators who control the U.S. economic policy, IMF, the President, The
Treasury Secretary, Wall Street, etc.. They are the ruling class.
CB
"Charles Brown" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/14/99
Or maybe
"Craven, Jim" wrote:
"Only one thing could have broken our movement: if the adversary had
understood its principle and from the first day had smashed with extreme
brutality the nucleus of our new movement."
Adolf Hitler (Speech to Nuremberg Congress, September 3, 1933)
"I am afraid of
Charles Brown wrote:
But doesn't the central committee of the dictatorship of the
bourgeoisie sit above both the IMF and its member governments,
really , anyway ?
"Who" is the IMF ?
Doug:
"The IMF is a toy of the United States to pursue its economic policy
offshore." - MIT econ prof Rudi
Thank you Louis. I wish others would be less quick to throw in the towel.
If your gut tells you the imperialist nations got and are getting something
from the Third World, maybe we need to apply some mental energy to
pinpointing it. Louis speaks of the Rodney portion of the Williams-Rodney
At 05:12 PM 9/14/99 -0700, Craven, Jim wrote:
Add to all of that and more that fully 50% of all children born in Africa
today are born HIV positive. I like to use the metaphor of imperialism as a
gigantic "reverse Hoover" vacuum "cleaner".( actually a vacuum plunderer and
dirtier) Whereas a
There is another professor from Wellesley, I believe, named Mary Lefkowitz,
author of "Not Out of Africa" who has a whole little business of "refuting"
Bernal and anyone who wants to study any contribution by African peoples.
She's got a bunch of books all on this, she is funded by real right
You could on and on with the moral outrage. War and conquest extract
terrible penalties on the defeated. Inside Europe as well as outside it. Has
no one read the history of the thirty years war?
But the question is how dependent was the development of capitalism on the
exploitation of the
I very much appreciate the quality of the discussion on imperialism.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You could on and on with the moral outrage. War and conquest extract
terrible penalties on the defeated. Inside Europe as well as outside it. Has
no one read the history of the thirty years war?
But the question is how dependent was the development of capitalism on the
exploitation of the
I say, it does matter, very much, but I agree it is not all that matters.
But who said it is all that matters?! Of course, the point is to change it.
But understanding it very much matters in terms of changing it. It matters
in principle, and it matters as a matter of politics and policy. I for
. . . Come on,
"progressive economists"! I'd love to sponsor a debate between Darity and
Brad, or between Darity and Wojtek for that matter. . . .
I agree it is worth knowing the extent to which
rents from resource extraction or unfair trade
subsidized the rise of the "West" or the "North,"
I wrote:
3% does not sound like much (assuming that figure is about right). But if
we assume that imports from non-industrial core countries are goods rather
than services, and that about 2/3 of GDP is services, a more relevant
figure for this discussion is 9%...
Bill Burgess
Brad replied:
No it
At 01:17 PM 14/09/99 -0400, Brad wrote:
Imports from non-industrial-core countries equal to 3% of GDP--most
of which have potential domestic substitute producers who are not
*that* much more costly...
Brad DeLong
3% does not sound like much (assuming that figure is about right). But if
we
Brad De Long wrote:
Imports from non-industrial-core countries equal to 3% of GDP--most
of which have potential domestic substitute producers who are not
*that* much more costly...
Are you sure of what you just wrote? With far reaching mechanization, I
suspect that we would not loose too
I had written:
According to the US ECONOMIC REPORT OF THE PRESIDENT, 1999, Table B-105,
total imports from non-Industrial countries in the first 3 quarters of 1998
(at an annual rate) equaled 414.9 billion US$, which is more than 45
percent of total US imports.
wojtek asks:
Is that $415b the
Doug Henwood wrote:
I absolutely agree with Lou Proyect's point about the historical
importance of imperialism to capitalism; I'm just trying to figure
out how it matters today.
The evidence that it is (somehow or other) important lies in the ferocity
of the imperialists in defending it.
Hi Carrol,
I agree with everything you have written 100%. That is why I also attached
(to provoke thought not as any "proof")the comment by Bertram Gross about
new forms of fascism under new
historical/geopolitical/cultural/political/economic conditions not being a
replica--in forms--of any
Charles Brown wrote:
Charles: Well, they are making them in the "outlands" , ha, ha. But
seriously, I would be kind of skeptical about the official stats. Or
maybe it's a critical core of the profits and their source that
controls the whole strategy of the MNC's.
If there really were vast
Indeed as I indicated divisions between workers of different countries is a
problem. I don't know the full solution to it. But I don't see how making
the IMF autonomous is going to help. Or how autonomous means democratic. And
I don't see how my position is more "economist" than that of Chris
There are no statutes of limitation on imperialism. Just because US
multinationals are ignoring most of Subsaharan Africa today, we can not
forgive or forget that the damage was already done. Walter Rodney's "How
Europe Underdeveloped Africa" leaves no doubt that imperialism left the
continent in
Charles Brown wrote:
Charles: Given the G-7 ,aren't there only about 7, main imperialist
countries ? That's 1.4 to 1.7 main colonies per imperialist center.
Don't forget the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Scandinavia,
Spain, etc. There are probably about 20 main imperialist countries
Charles Brown wrote:
Wasn't Lenin's idea in _Imperialism_ that around 1900 there was a
shift from a predominance of export of goods from the core
imperialist countries (in exchange for raw materials) to a
predominance of export of capital ? In other words, what Lenin said
fits with what Brad
At 01:17 PM 14/09/99 -0400, Brad wrote:
Imports from non-industrial-core countries equal to 3% of GDP--most
of which have potential domestic substitute producers who are not
*that* much more costly...
Brad DeLong
3% does not sound like much (assuming that figure is about right). But if
we
Wasn't Lenin's idea in _Imperialism_ that around 1900 there was a shift from a
predominance of export of goods from the core imperialist countries (in exchange for
raw materials) to a predominance of export of capital ? In other words, what Lenin
said fits with what Brad says: 1900 marked a
At 06:50 AM 9/14/99 -0700, Brad DeLong wrote:
Lenin's idea that the prosperity of the industrial core is critically
linked to a poor periphery from which the core can buy raw materials
was perhaps true (but perhaps not) in 1900. (The best example of
Was not that originally Rosa Luxemburg's
As the DL himself [Himself?] points out below, this kind of thing has been
said by the Pope (though he mostly criticizes Marxism for its materialism
and atheism), so we can recycle the debates concerning the progressive vs.
reactionary nature of the Pontiff. Both the DL and the Pope come from
Michael writes:
I would suggest another
dimension to your equation. The U.S. is able to treat many of its people
relatively well (materially) because of the pressure it exerts on other
countries. We get clothes made for $.15-.20 per hour,
Brad replies:
Imports from non-industrial-core
Yes, one of those honest statements that slips out now and again.
To press it a little further, using the old Marxist metphor, the U.S. government
-Presidency, including The Treasury, Congress, Judiciary, Military - is still sort of
the executive controlled by the Board of Directors (central
Lenin's idea that the prosperity of the industrial core is critically
linked to a poor periphery from which the core can buy raw materials
was perhaps true (but perhaps not) in 1900. (The best example of
this, in my view, is the U.S.-British cotton trade of the first half
of the nineteenth
Brad, this is the first time that you have acknowledged context in this
sort of discussion.
My my...
I would suggest another
dimension to your equation. The U.S. is able to treat many of its people
relatively well (materially) because of the pressure it exerts on other
countries. We get
With some of the debates recently on the progressive vs. reactionary nature
of the Dalai Lama, this forwarded post seems interesting.--Nathan Newman
-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of ANDERSON DAVID
"Of all the modern economic theories, the economic system of
BLS DAILY REPORT, MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 13, 1999
__Finished producer prices rose 0.5 percent in August, boosted by a hefty
3.7 percent rise in energy costs from July, BLS reported. The overall
producer price index for finished goods rose 0.2 percent in July and 0.1
percent in June. Over the
At 08:31 PM 9/13/99 -0700, Brad DeLong ponders:
Brezhnev. I know how to evaluate material welfare. I don't know how
to evaluate the bad karma from living in a society in which the
police shoot children on the one hand or living in a society in which
dissidents are sent to mental hospitals on
NY Times, Tuesday, September 14, 1999
As a Species Vanishes, No One Can Say Why
By WILLIAM K. STEVENS
On a plate, where most people encounter them, all Atlantic salmon are
pretty much alike: orange-pink fillets or steaks that melt in the mouth
when baked, broiled, grilled or poached, or when
Rod Hay wrote:
Globalisation is a fact that lefties have to deal with. It is futile to
oppose it. Chris is pointing in the right direction but he is point at the
wrong path. Capitalism may have some room for progressive action. There are
still feudal institutional remnants around the world.
At 01:33 13/09/99 -0700, you wrote:
I will resist the temptation to flame.
My comments were based in part on my own experience. As pennelers know, I am
one of the last people on this list who would be described as a "ghetto
leftist/marxist". And I have long been involved in many projects of a
At 10:56 13/09/99 -0400, you wrote:
I can assure you that any proposal for the IMF to become more independent
of member governments will be DOA in Washington. That's a personal
guarantee. I doubt that IMF officials would dare to embrace such a
proposal, but I would be delighted if they did so:
G'day Michael,
Is Stretton's *Political Essays* (1987) available in the UK? I ask because
Oz is his focus in this excellent collection of essays. But then, the
issues he writes about are as central to the Pommie or Kiwi experience as
they are here. His essays on 'deregulation', the damage
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