Re: [PEN-L] Let.s Go Hillary

2008-02-10 Thread Julio Huato
Carrol wrote: When a national coalition to replace the DP-Pimps at UFPJ == When something somewhere entirely unexpected and unpredictable now occurs [e.g., Walmart employees emulate the Fisher Body Sit Down Strike) -- When 50,000 white, black, asian marchers come out to a pro-illegal

[PEN-L] Maxed out credit cards

2008-02-10 Thread Louis Proyect
(This appeared in my home town newspaper in upstate NY.) Middletown Times Herald-Record, February 10, 2008 More and more maxed out and defaulting Counties report slew of credit-card judgments By Steve Israel How can the parents of a 2-year-old pay their minimum credit-card bill of $70 when

Re: [PEN-L] Let.s Go Hillary

2008-02-10 Thread Leigh Meyers
On Feb 10, 2008 6:28 AM, Julio Huato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carrol wrote: When a national coalition to replace the DP-Pimps at UFPJ == When something somewhere entirely unexpected and unpredictable now occurs [e.g., Walmart employees emulate the Fisher Body Sit Down Strike) --

[PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Jim Devine
[these guys have never heard of something called borrowing or the fact that such activity incurs something called debt upon which something called interest must be paid if something called bankruptcy or foreclosure is to be avoided.] The New York Times / February 10, 2008 Op-Ed Contributors You

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Max B. Sawicky
I think it's more general. It's the floating, meaningless reference point. You thought X was bad because it had a level of some number Y. But you should really redefine X as something else, and the latter has a level less than Y, so X is really not as bad as you thought, hence not so bad in

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Leigh Meyers
On Feb 10, 2008 8:19 AM, Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [these guys have never heard of something called borrowing or the fact that such activity incurs something called debt upon which something called interest must be paid if something called bankruptcy or foreclosure is to be avoided.]

Re: [PEN-L] Let.s Go Hillary

2008-02-10 Thread Jim Devine
Carrol wrote: When a national coalition to replace the DP-Pimps at UFPJ == When something somewhere entirely unexpected and unpredictable now occurs [e.g., Walmart employees emulate the Fisher Body Sit Down Strike) -- When 50,000 white, black, asian marchers come out to a

[PEN-L] it's the water [was: apologia]

2008-02-10 Thread Jim Devine
Max B. Sawicky wrote: Anyway, Cox was going on about how much better off we are these days because we have innovations like many varieties of bottled water, even though the stuff coming out of the tap is periodically found to have uncomfortable levels of doo-doo. but haven't other studies

Re: [PEN-L] it's the water [was: apologia]

2008-02-10 Thread Max B. Sawicky
Jim Devine wrote: Max B. Sawicky wrote: Anyway, Cox was going on about how much better off we are these days because we have innovations like many varieties of bottled water, even though the stuff coming out of the tap is periodically found to have uncomfortable levels of doo-doo. but haven't

Re: [PEN-L] it's the water [was: apologia]

2008-02-10 Thread Jim Devine
Michael Perelman wrote: I wonder how Dr. Cox would feel however if groggy firefighters who are supposed to save his house were already exhausted from their other job. he may live in an area where fire services are privatized, where the fire-fighters simply drive past burning houses whose

Re: [PEN-L] it's the water [was: apologia]

2008-02-10 Thread ravi
On Feb 10, 2008, at 11:46 AM, Jim Devine wrote: Max B. Sawicky wrote: Anyway, Cox was going on about how much better off we are these days because we have innovations like many varieties of bottled water, even though the stuff coming out of the tap is periodically found to have uncomfortable

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Doyle Saylor
Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: even though the stuff coming out of the tap is periodically found to have uncomfortable levels of doo-doo. Doyle; My friend Ellen is a water quality engineer with a local water district. She says you are wrong. Give an

Re: [PEN-L] it's the water [was: apologia]

2008-02-10 Thread Leigh Meyers
On Feb 10, 2008 9:11 AM, Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a couple of paragraphs about Cox in The Confiscation of American Prosperity: Dr. Cox pontificated: I think it's great ... It gives you portfolio diversification in your income (Scott 2006). As I said in the initial

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Leigh Meyers
On Feb 10, 2008 9:40 AM, Doyle Saylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: even though the stuff coming out of the tap is periodically found to have uncomfortable levels of doo-doo. Doyle; My friend Ellen is a water quality

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Leigh Meyers
Sorry... forgot to put my tongue in cheek before I posted. I was being sarcastadonic. On Feb 10, 2008 10:18 AM, Doyle Saylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 9:43 AM, Leigh Meyers wrote: Just add more chlorine. Doyle; Adding agricultural runoff, or

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Doyle Saylor
Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Jim Devine wrote: do we really grow rice in California? Doyle; http://www.calrice.org/ Oh Yes Indeedy. Doyle

[PEN-L] In common

2008-02-10 Thread Dan Scanlan
Looks to me like Hillary and Obama Have in common A lack of attack on George Bush, His lies, His failures His Patriot Act, His soiling of the judiciary, His unconstitutional signing statements, His funneling of funds to his friends And his father's companies, His ignoring of international law,

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Jim Devine
do we really grow rice in California? (I may have reported this, but I'm not convinced it's true.) Doyle Saylor wrote: Why grow rice in California? -- Jim Devine / Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti. (Go your own way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante.

Re: [PEN-L] Let.s Go Hillary

2008-02-10 Thread Carrol Cox
Jim Devine wrote: Carrol wrote: [clip] Then it will make sense to talk of HOPE. Julio Huato wrote: In other words, you are HOPELESS. I know it's a cliché, but whatever happened to optimism of the will, pessimism of the intellect? That is what was echoing through my mind as I typed.

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Rudy Fichtenbaum
According to the article the The top fifth of American households earned an average of $149,963 a year in 2006 they spent $69,863 on food, clothing, shelter, utilities, transportation, health care and other categories of consumption. The rest of their income went largely to taxes and

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Carrol Cox
Jim Devine wrote: do we really grow rice in California? (I may have reported this, but I'm not convinced it's true.) Yep. I've seen two or three articles over the years describing rice-growing in California, irrigating with government-subsidized water. Quite a racket. Carrol Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Doyle Saylor
Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 10:26 AM, Leigh Meyers wrote: I was being sarcastadonic. I was playing the opportunistic raptor consumer of the lumbering sarcastadonic. Yummy tender free range sarcastdonics. How satisfying to kill them, grind them up and spread their remains back

[PEN-L] The production of absolute surplus value

2008-02-10 Thread Louis Proyect
(This was posted to the Introduction to Marxism mailing list, an online class. For more information go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/marxism_class/.) Over the next couple of days, I am going to be posting excerpts from Marx's Capital Part III: The Production of Absolute Surplus-Value with

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Dan Scanlan
On Feb 10, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Jim Devine wrote: do we really grow rice in California? (I may have reported this, but I'm not convinced it's true.) Those of us who live in the Sierra foothills suffer the smoke from the burning of the rice fields in the Sacramento Valley every summer. The

Re: [PEN-L] Let.s Go Hillary

2008-02-10 Thread Julio Huato
Jim Devine wrote: I know it's a cliché, but whatever happened to optimism of the will, pessimism of the intellect? How is voting for Hillary, McCain, Huckabee, Paul, Gravel, Nader, the SWP, etc. -- or not voting! -- a manifestation of this optimism of the will?

[PEN-L] A truly damning document. Departure Assessment To Ambassador Crocker From Manuel Miranda, Office of Legislative Statecraft

2008-02-10 Thread Leigh Meyers
My comment onsite: This memo seems to be a bold admission that the U.S. government is attempting to engineer an Iraq in it's own image with little regard to the interests of Iraqis, their society, and culture: Miranda: I support the President's policy that ignores the historic stereotypes(?) of

Re: [PEN-L] Let.s Go Hillary

2008-02-10 Thread Jim Devine
me: I know it's a cliché, but whatever happened to optimism of the will, pessimism of the intellect? Julio Huato wrote: How is voting for Hillary, McCain, Huckabee, Paul, Gravel, Nader, the SWP, etc. -- or not voting! -- a manifestation of this optimism of the will? I interpret optimism

Re: [PEN-L] Let.s Go Hillary

2008-02-10 Thread Michael Smith
On Sunday 10 February 2008 14:52:00 Julio Huato wrote: How is voting for Hillary, McCain, Huckabee, Paul, Gravel, Nader, the SWP, etc. -- or not voting! -- a manifestation of this optimism of the will? I've never understood that slogan. Can somebody tell me what it means?

Re: [PEN-L] Let.s Go Hillary

2008-02-10 Thread Julio Huato
Carrol wrote: It seems to me that to put one's hopes in either Obama or Clinton is to express utter despair. And putting your hopes in Nader is a sign of cheerfulness? (It's odd to have the words cheerfulness and Nader in the same sentence.)

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Stephen E Philion
Max wrote: I think it's more general. It's the floating, meaningless reference point. You thought X was bad because it had a level of some number Y. But you should really redefine X as something else, and the latter has a level less than Y, so X is really not as bad as you thought, hence not so

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Michael Perelman
Rice is the biggest crop in Butte County. Much of the soil is a lava cap with almost no topsoil. It was only used for grazing until Japanese immigrants realized it was good for rice. They lost the land while they were interned. When I first came here, the rice burning was such that there

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Max B. Sawicky
Untangling Cox and Alm takes more energy than I have. EPI has done work on this. http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/briefingpapers_inequality_inequality http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_viewpoints_econ_oppty_and_poverty Stephen E Philion wrote: Max wrote: I think it's more general.

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread ken hanly
Max sayeth: Anyway, Cox was going on about how much better off we are these days because we have innovations like many varieties of bottled water, even though the stuff coming out of the tap is periodically found to have uncomfortable levels of doo-doo. Surely there are standards for tap

[PEN-L] The Chicken Doves - How the Demoncratic Party Has Co-opted The Anti-War Movement - Taibbi

2008-02-10 Thread Leigh Meyers
Speaking of parties,, the Obama Girl, the pin-up 'idealism girl', was too busy partying to vote. Tipped by Stan Goff, Feral Scholar http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/10/chicken-doves/ ...with a warning: WARNING: This important story is once again tainted by left-macho

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Max B. Sawicky
Doyle Saylor wrote: Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: even though the stuff coming out of the tap is periodically found to have uncomfortable levels of doo-doo. Doyle; My friend Ellen is a water quality engineer with a local water district. She says

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Doug Henwood
On Feb 10, 2008, at 7:56 PM, Bill Lear wrote: On Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 19:48:49 (-0500) Max B. Sawicky writes: ... Don't read this until after dinner. http://www.eserc.stonybrook.edu/cen514/info/NYC/WaterSupply.html New York City’s water, in the past, has won many awards for it’s

[PEN-L] Swans Release February 11, 2008

2008-02-10 Thread Louis Proyect
http://www.swans.com February 11, 2008 In this issue: Note from the Editors: We begin this edition in recognition of the centenary of Simone de Beauvoir's birth -- a remarkable woman, philosopher, writer, and feminist who had a profound impact on so many people in myriad ways. Karen Moller

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Bill Lear
On Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 19:48:49 (-0500) Max B. Sawicky writes: ... Don't read this until after dinner. http://www.eserc.stonybrook.edu/cen514/info/NYC/WaterSupply.html New York City?s water, in the past, has won many awards for it?s taste, and has long been toasted as the champagne of

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Bill Lear
On Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 20:04:42 (-0500) Doug Henwood writes: On Feb 10, 2008, at 7:56 PM, Bill Lear wrote: On Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 19:48:49 (-0500) Max B. Sawicky writes: ... Don't read this until after dinner.

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Doyle Saylor
Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:48 PM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: Don't read this until after dinner. Doyle; :-) I grew up in Texas where fluoride was a perennial question mark about safe to drink water. You found one reference which is a dandy, questioning New York drinking water,

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Rudy Fichtenbaum
I think the essence of the Cox and Alm article is that income inequality doesn't matter that much because income doesn't matter that much. As evidence they make the argument that consumption is a lot more equal than income and it is really consumption that matters. If this is really true then I

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Max B. Sawicky
Yes, after savage neoliberal attacks on public infrastructure designed to achieve just such an outcome, one should not be surprised. Bill Which was my point, in the first place. Idiots celebrate bottled water that ascends on the back of disinvestment in public amenities.