Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-11 Thread raghu
On Feb 10, 2008 5:19 PM, Bill Lear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, were it true that the water were bad now, one doesn't have to go far to guess the probable causes, no? If the water is good, Look! public infrastructure works so well if done right. If the water is bad well thats the fault of

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-11 Thread Rudy Fichtenbaum
Dean Baker wrote the following about the Cox and Alm column in the NYT: *Obligatory Nonsense on Inequality at the NYT* Every year or so, the NYT feels obligated to print a piece of nonsense masquerading as economics from W. Michael Cox, the senior Vice-President of the Dallas Federal Reserve

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-11 Thread Jim Devine
Dean Baker writes: You may wonder why the NYT would print columns from someone with such a consistent reputation for getting things wrong. I guess that is the price that we pay for having a regular column from Paul Krugman. Too bad they can't find a conservative who could at least make an

[PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Jim Devine
[these guys have never heard of something called borrowing or the fact that such activity incurs something called debt upon which something called interest must be paid if something called bankruptcy or foreclosure is to be avoided.] The New York Times / February 10, 2008 Op-Ed Contributors You

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Max B. Sawicky
I think it's more general. It's the floating, meaningless reference point. You thought X was bad because it had a level of some number Y. But you should really redefine X as something else, and the latter has a level less than Y, so X is really not as bad as you thought, hence not so bad in

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Leigh Meyers
On Feb 10, 2008 8:19 AM, Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [these guys have never heard of something called borrowing or the fact that such activity incurs something called debt upon which something called interest must be paid if something called bankruptcy or foreclosure is to be avoided.]

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Doyle Saylor
Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: even though the stuff coming out of the tap is periodically found to have uncomfortable levels of doo-doo. Doyle; My friend Ellen is a water quality engineer with a local water district. She says you are wrong. Give an

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Leigh Meyers
On Feb 10, 2008 9:40 AM, Doyle Saylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: even though the stuff coming out of the tap is periodically found to have uncomfortable levels of doo-doo. Doyle; My friend Ellen is a water quality

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Leigh Meyers
Sorry... forgot to put my tongue in cheek before I posted. I was being sarcastadonic. On Feb 10, 2008 10:18 AM, Doyle Saylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 9:43 AM, Leigh Meyers wrote: Just add more chlorine. Doyle; Adding agricultural runoff, or

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Doyle Saylor
Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Jim Devine wrote: do we really grow rice in California? Doyle; http://www.calrice.org/ Oh Yes Indeedy. Doyle

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Jim Devine
do we really grow rice in California? (I may have reported this, but I'm not convinced it's true.) Doyle Saylor wrote: Why grow rice in California? -- Jim Devine / Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti. (Go your own way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante.

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Rudy Fichtenbaum
According to the article the The top fifth of American households earned an average of $149,963 a year in 2006 they spent $69,863 on food, clothing, shelter, utilities, transportation, health care and other categories of consumption. The rest of their income went largely to taxes and

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Carrol Cox
Jim Devine wrote: do we really grow rice in California? (I may have reported this, but I'm not convinced it's true.) Yep. I've seen two or three articles over the years describing rice-growing in California, irrigating with government-subsidized water. Quite a racket. Carrol Doyle Saylor

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Doyle Saylor
Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 10:26 AM, Leigh Meyers wrote: I was being sarcastadonic. I was playing the opportunistic raptor consumer of the lumbering sarcastadonic. Yummy tender free range sarcastdonics. How satisfying to kill them, grind them up and spread their remains back

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Dan Scanlan
On Feb 10, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Jim Devine wrote: do we really grow rice in California? (I may have reported this, but I'm not convinced it's true.) Those of us who live in the Sierra foothills suffer the smoke from the burning of the rice fields in the Sacramento Valley every summer. The

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Stephen E Philion
Max wrote: I think it's more general. It's the floating, meaningless reference point. You thought X was bad because it had a level of some number Y. But you should really redefine X as something else, and the latter has a level less than Y, so X is really not as bad as you thought, hence not so

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Michael Perelman
Rice is the biggest crop in Butte County. Much of the soil is a lava cap with almost no topsoil. It was only used for grazing until Japanese immigrants realized it was good for rice. They lost the land while they were interned. When I first came here, the rice burning was such that there

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Max B. Sawicky
Untangling Cox and Alm takes more energy than I have. EPI has done work on this. http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/briefingpapers_inequality_inequality http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_viewpoints_econ_oppty_and_poverty Stephen E Philion wrote: Max wrote: I think it's more general.

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread ken hanly
Max sayeth: Anyway, Cox was going on about how much better off we are these days because we have innovations like many varieties of bottled water, even though the stuff coming out of the tap is periodically found to have uncomfortable levels of doo-doo. Surely there are standards for tap

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Max B. Sawicky
Doyle Saylor wrote: Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: even though the stuff coming out of the tap is periodically found to have uncomfortable levels of doo-doo. Doyle; My friend Ellen is a water quality engineer with a local water district. She says

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Doug Henwood
On Feb 10, 2008, at 7:56 PM, Bill Lear wrote: On Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 19:48:49 (-0500) Max B. Sawicky writes: ... Don't read this until after dinner. http://www.eserc.stonybrook.edu/cen514/info/NYC/WaterSupply.html New York City’s water, in the past, has won many awards for it’s

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Bill Lear
On Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 19:48:49 (-0500) Max B. Sawicky writes: ... Don't read this until after dinner. http://www.eserc.stonybrook.edu/cen514/info/NYC/WaterSupply.html New York City?s water, in the past, has won many awards for it?s taste, and has long been toasted as the champagne of

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Bill Lear
On Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 20:04:42 (-0500) Doug Henwood writes: On Feb 10, 2008, at 7:56 PM, Bill Lear wrote: On Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 19:48:49 (-0500) Max B. Sawicky writes: ... Don't read this until after dinner.

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Doyle Saylor
Greetings Economists, On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:48 PM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: Don't read this until after dinner. Doyle; :-) I grew up in Texas where fluoride was a perennial question mark about safe to drink water. You found one reference which is a dandy, questioning New York drinking water,

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Rudy Fichtenbaum
I think the essence of the Cox and Alm article is that income inequality doesn't matter that much because income doesn't matter that much. As evidence they make the argument that consumption is a lot more equal than income and it is really consumption that matters. If this is really true then I

Re: [PEN-L] apologia

2008-02-10 Thread Max B. Sawicky
Yes, after savage neoliberal attacks on public infrastructure designed to achieve just such an outcome, one should not be surprised. Bill Which was my point, in the first place. Idiots celebrate bottled water that ascends on the back of disinvestment in public amenities.