Re: 2nd-Best Perl Publisher?
On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 10:40:28PM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote: Oh we do. There is a diagram in the Cookbook, I believe, maybe two. Filesystems and references are where I'd look for them. We provide illustrators to redraw whatever you do. They'll take coffee-stained napkins and produce glorious PostScript. This makes delurk/ I can vouch for that. The process can only be described (by this heathen) as magic. I provided crap ascii art for my diagrams, and the illustrator (Jessamyn) seemed to produce art that was *exactly* what I was getting at. Must've got inside my brane and looked to see what I was thinking. Thanks again Jessamyn, wherever you are. DJ p.s. and yes, I've still got my day job :-)
Re: 2nd-Best Perl Publisher?
From: Uri Guttman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 12/14/02 3:35:40 AM JK == Joe Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JK in my opinion I think Manning might come in second. JK They have a few really good Perl title's, OO and Data JK Munging sping to mind. they currently have 4 perl books (and a couple in the works i think) and IMO all are winners, the above 2 and elements of programming with perl and extending and embedding perl. pretty good batting average. Manning currently have six Perl books out: * Object Oriented Perl * Elements of Programmnig with Perl * Data Munging with Perl * Web Development with Apache and Perl * Graphics Programming with Perl * Embedding and Extending Perl I haven't read the last two yet, but the first four are all pretty strong. Of course, I'm slightly biased :) Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk Let me see you make decisions, without your television - Depeche Mode (Stripped)
Re: 2nd-Best Perl Publisher?
On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 01:48:03AM -0800, Dave Cross wrote: From: Uri Guttman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 12/14/02 3:35:40 AM JK == Joe Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JK in my opinion I think Manning might come in second. JK They have a few really good Perl title's, OO and Data JK Munging sping to mind. they currently have 4 perl books (and a couple in the works i think) and IMO all are winners, the above 2 and elements of programming with perl and extending and embedding perl. pretty good batting average. This could make for an interesting side-thread, but I wasn't asking about the publisher's reputation with the readership, but rather how attractive the individual publishers are from an author's point of view. Sure, there's some overlap there (e.g., popular publishers will sell more, increasing the royalty stream), but you can't ascertain the work habits of the editors, or the stinginess of the contract negotiators, etc., by talking to readers. I haven't read the last two yet, but the first four are all pretty strong. Of course, I'm slightly biased :) Dave... -Tim ** | Tim Maher, CEO, CONSULTIX (206) 781-UNIX; (866) DOC-PERL; (866) DOC-LINUX | | Ph.D. JAWCAR (Just Another White Camel Award Recipient) | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] teachmeunix.com teachmeperl.com teachmelinux.net | *-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+* | Providing Intensive, Hands-on, Instructor-led Software Training since '86! | **
Re: 2nd-Best Perl Publisher?
On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 10:40:28PM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote: Tim Maher writes: I've tried this, but most have experience with only one publisher, and for that reason aren't capable of making comparisons. Hence my appeal to this Elite Fraternity of Perl Educators for additional input! 8-} I'd ask Tim Jenness, Simon Cozens, and Dave Cross about Manning. I'd ask Geoff Young, Randy Kobes, and Paul Lindner about Sams. Brent Michalski's written for Wiley. For AWL, I'd ask Brent again, Kevin Meltzer, Lincoln Stein, and Joseph Hall (he might be biased--I think he's some kind of acquisition consultant for them :-). Simon's also written for Wrox, I believe. Lincoln has, in fact, done books for ORA, Wiley and AWL, so if you're looking for a wider view of things, he might be a good person to talk to. dha -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ We are the Borg. You will be assimilated! Nah, only kidding. We're just the Sontarans. Care to take part in some 'medical research'?
Re: 2nd best Perl publisher
Tim Maher wrote: And so far, nobody's commented on my inqury regarding help with diagrams. My experience with magazines is that they really love illustrations, and they provide professionals to do them. Perhaps it's the same with books. Authors sometimes have trouble coming up with illustrations for technical topics. -- Danny Faught Tejas Software Consulting http://www.tejasconsulting.com
Re: 2nd-Best Perl Publisher?
Clinton A. Pierce wrote: I'll second the Scott Meyers/SAMS notion. They're a fairly easy publisher to write for, a good book will earn a fair sum, and Scott has his head screwed on straight. I did a pre-publication review for Software Testing by Ron Patton and published by Sams. The editing was really top-notch, and that's not something I see very often. I didn't like the fact he referenced very little of the existing literature, though - I don't recall whether Sams insisted on this or not, since it targets a beginning audience. There were several references to other books from Sams that were marginally relevant, though there's a vast wealth of highly relevant literature from other publishers. -- Danny Faught (former Books Guide editor for StickyMinds.com) Tejas Software Consulting http://www.tejasconsulting.com
Re: 2nd-Best Perl Publisher?
Tim Maher wrote: In contrast, I've been warned that I might not even get minimum wage for the hours I put into my book with some of the other publishers out there. (And I seem to recall Randal remarking in this forum that, Camels and Cookbooks aside, Perl book-writing is better viewed as a charitable contribution than a money-making venture). I know many authors who have written about software testing and software process. All say that they got much more value from the book in marketing their services than in the miniscule money they earned directly from the book. This cuts across many publishers (though none have gone through O'Reilly.) Many of the books go out of print within a few years. The only person who's ever told me he's made a decent profit from a book is Steve Heller, and he writes technology-based books (actually, probably more like what you're proposing than what most of my colleagues write). The criteria by which I'm currently considering best-osity (ouch!) would include a competent Perl-aware editorial staff, help with diagrams (do they still do that in the industry?), adequate promotion of the product, honestly keeping their side of the bargain, etc. Am I leaving out any important criteria? Policy for reverting rights when it goes out of print. Competent and experienced editorial staff (competent in editing, not just in the technology), especially the particular editor you will get - watch out for a bait-and-switch to a junior editor. Which publishers get your vote for second-Nth best ? I haven't shopped around seriously yet - none of my book ideas have come up for air yet. But I see many books coming out of Addison Wesley/Pearson, Wiley, and Dorset House. A small publisher that has courted me is Artech House. And I've seen a few from Sam's/Macmillan. These are who I plan to start with. I've heard a few horror stories about Wiley (e.g., dreadfully poor editing), and a few others who had no problems with Wiley. Again, these are more process- and industry-oriented books; I'm not sure how many of these labels publish highly technical books. I tend to stick with O'Reilly when I can - I think second place is a distant second. Consider getting a book agent. -- Danny Faught Tejas Software Consulting http://www.tejasconsulting.com
Re: 2nd best Perl publisher
I apparently CC'd the wrong list on my first attempt at posting this message; sorry! -Tim On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 09:22:30PM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote: Am I leaving out any important criteria? Danny had a good list of other criteria. I agree; and it's the kind of stuff I might have thought of *eventually*, but undoubtedly too late in the game. Thanks, Danny! Ask to keep the copyright in your name (no good reason, it just feels better that way). Make sure the rights revert when it goes out of print (and check for weasel words about what out of print means--I personally would put in something like sells less than 10 printed copies a month for three consecutive months). Interesting advice! And I especially like the operational definition of what out-of-print means. Talk to authors who have written for the publisher and see what their experiences were like. I've tried this, but most have experience with only one publisher, and for that reason aren't capable of making comparisons. Hence my appeal to this Elite Fraternity of Perl Educators for additional input! 8-} And so far, nobody's commented on my inqury regarding help with diagrams. As a course developer with way too much experience, I'm acutely aware of the tremendously higher cost (in time) of preparing good graphics versus painting word pictures. But graphics are often distinctly superior in getting certain kinds of points across. So I'm curious if publishers currently provide artistic resources to their authors. I'm guessing they don't, judging from the conspicuous absence of a single diagram in the Camel or the Cookbook, but thought I'd ask anyway. -Tim ** | Tim Maher, CEO, CONSULTIX (206) 781-UNIX; (866) DOC-PERL; (866) DOC-LINUX | | Ph.D. JAWCAR (Just Another White Camel Award Recipient) | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] teachmeunix.com teachmeperl.com teachmelinux.net | *-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+* | Providing Intensive, Hands-on, Instructor-led Software Training since '86! | **
Re: 2nd-Best Perl Publisher?
Tim Maher writes: I've tried this, but most have experience with only one publisher, and for that reason aren't capable of making comparisons. Hence my appeal to this Elite Fraternity of Perl Educators for additional input! 8-} I'd ask Tim Jenness, Simon Cozens, and Dave Cross about Manning. I'd ask Geoff Young, Randy Kobes, and Paul Lindner about Sams. Brent Michalski's written for Wiley. For AWL, I'd ask Brent again, Kevin Meltzer, Lincoln Stein, and Joseph Hall (he might be biased--I think he's some kind of acquisition consultant for them :-). Simon's also written for Wrox, I believe. if publishers currently provide artistic resources to their authors. I'm guessing they don't, judging from the conspicuous absence of a single diagram in the Camel or the Cookbook, but thought I'd ask anyway. Oh we do. There is a diagram in the Cookbook, I believe, maybe two. Filesystems and references are where I'd look for them. We provide illustrators to redraw whatever you do. They'll take coffee-stained napkins and produce glorious PostScript. This makes the illustrations in all our books look consistent, which is good. I imagine that most other publishers do this, too. http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/author/ is a good place to start if you're wondering what life is like as an author. Nat
Re: 2nd-Best Perl Publisher?
At 09:22 PM 12/13/2002 -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote: Which publishers get your vote for second-Nth best ? I admire the Sams books that were edited by Scott Meyers [EMAIL PROTECTED], such as the mod_perl Developer's Cookbook. Sams has put out some crap, but Scott has done the most O'Reilly-like books they have. I haven't heard anything bad about Addison-Wesley, but I don't know very many of their authors (Joseph Hall is the only one, I think). I'll second the Scott Meyers/SAMS notion. They're a fairly easy publisher to write for, a good book will earn a fair sum, and Scott has his head screwed on straight.
